Drunken Wushu(Kung Fu)

[Oniw17]

I've heard that it does exist, but I haven't found anywhere in which Drunken Wushu, or Drunken KungFu is taught. I don't want to learn it just yet, I just want to Know if it does exist, or if it's just a nickname for another form of Wushu, or it it's just a myth.
Thank You.

[sean_stonehart]

I've heard that it does exist, but I haven't found anywhere in which Drunken Wushu, or Drunken KungFu is taught. I don't want to learn it just yet, I just want to Know if it does exist, or if it's just a nickname for another form of Wushu, or it it's just a myth.
Thank You.

Yes Zui Quan (Joy Kuen) exists. It's an idea... a concept... a technique... an interpretation... however you want to look at it, applied to fighting styles.

[kwan kune]

it most certainly does. and it kicks butt! it is a seperate twist to all kung fu styles. for example drunken monkey drunk tiger drunk crane etc.

[Oniw17]

ok, so can you give some examples of Drunken varieted firms of wushu?

[sean_stonehart]

ok, so can you give some examples of Drunken varieted firms of wushu?

Drunken ___<insert random name here>___________ is one.

Seriously. Many existing systems have a drunk form or two to spin a different thought or process on their core materials. The best thing to do is look around. I can name literally 50 different "drunken" items, styles, forms, etc... but it won't do you any good.

What does you good is learning your basics & having your basics solid. There are no secrets, only basics done right. Once you have good basics, you can do anything because your basics will not change, only how you perform them.

[Sledgehammer]

i dont know where you heard that from but im sure Wushu has no Drunken art associated with it cause Wushu is a military art

wu = military
shu = art

Wushu - Military Art

[sean_stonehart]

i dont know where you heard that from but im sure Wushu has no Drunken art associated with it cause Wushu is a military art

wu = military
shu = art

Wushu - Military Art

Ummm... wushu is an encompassing name for CMA. Within the encompassed CMA are drunken systems/styles/techniques....

[Oniw17]

Now that the topic's been renewed, is there a drunken variation of Hung Gar?

[sean_stonehart]

No but I've heard of individual teachers have a drunken set or two...

[Iron Monkey]

Qoute:

dont know where you heard that from but im sure Wushu has no Drunken art associated with it cause Wushu is a military art.

Lets get one thing stright every martial arts is like military in it's own way. Second it seems to me u need to do a little research because no oftens what u said it seems u don't know much about wushu, like said wushu is the common name for CMA AkA Chinese Martial arts. There are many styles of wushu my friend.

[Matt Hughes]

In Zui Quan or the drunkard boxing, boxers falter, waddle, fall and sway just like drunkards.
Zui Quan can be used for both fighting and maintaining health. However, the drunkard boxers go out of their way to stress the combative side of their style. They blend a series of movements, actions and skills of the martial arts and try to confuse their opponents with special skills which often lead them to surprise triumphs.

Execution of the drunkard boxing demands extreme flexibility of the joints as well as suppleness, dexterity, power and coordination all of which can be developed in the course of practice.
The main feature of the drunkard boxing is to hide combative hits in drunkard-like, unsteady movements and actions so s to confuse the opponent. The secret of this style of boxing is maintaining a clear mind while giving a drunken appearance.

Drunkard boxers are required to be responsive with good eyesight and fist plays. They move in unconnected steps but with a flexible body combining hardness and suppleness. They have to be fast to get the better of their opponents but their main tactic is to feign defence while trying to attack and aiming in one direction but attacking in another. Various degrees of drunkenness are demonstrated by different ranges of movements and expressions in the eye.


This is a response I got from a website
also I study a form a modern wushu-Changquan, and yes there are some drunken applications in the traditional set

yes Wushu means military art but so what, that name was given hundreds of years ago when people studied martial arts to save there lives, nowadays its used as a sport or to aid your health or to get a little exercise

wushu is kung fu except kung fu isnt correct for talking about CMA
kung fu means skill or effort

[Nicholas Berkeley]

I recently heard about drunken weapon styles, and the idea sounds interesting to me. I've wanted to try it out sometime, but like it was said earlier....finding a teacher for a drunken style is a bit difficult. Not exactly the kind of thing that brings parents into the dojo for their kid's to learn >:-3

Does anyone know any good resources where I could find some more information on drunken styles? I've been trying to find some, but can't seem to find anything except a couple of forms tapes for about $40 each. Thank you for any help. :bow:

[Jason T Gatts]

Back when I was in the Marine Corps I was known to occasionally demonstrate a form of Drunken Style TKD (usually motivated by local college kids who had been offended by my loudmouth drunken "jarhead" friends). I have since lost my aptitude for the style (marriage/parenthood), although I feel confident (that as long as young people are allowed to train, leave home, and get drunk) that the tradition and variations of it will live on forever.

(Disclaimer: just kidding, this was not intended as an attack on legitimate Chinese Martial Arts styles/systems.)

[Yang Wei Xin]

zuijiquan

very rough on the body. even if you don't do the body hardening forms, the twisting is murder on your back. definitely not for everyone.

[TheOmega]

Zui Quan or Drunken Style is more a principle of Kung Fu than a specific art in itself. Much as in 5 Form Shaolin Gung Fu that each animal or art plays a specific role as does the drunken style. It is most certainly incomplete on it's own but is an amazing and beautiful art when used en-tandem with the rest of the principles.

And to those who want to know the validity. The Shaolin Monks -when they were considered a type of "police" used to walk the streets at night in the form of Zui Xia (translated as "come drink" also partially the name of the Jackie Chan movie. This leads people to believe the art is made up, though it is NOT. But what he did, was fictional). They would carry gourds filled with water, this was to bait robbers, thieves and highwaymen to attacking them. The art is to not actually BE drunk, but to slight the appearance as to confuse and deceive the opponents.

[GodofGamblers]

everyone says it's 'incomplete' a 'subset' etc, and yet i hear that there is a set of 8 patterns based on the 8 DRUNKEN IMMORTALS. check out

www.ikungfu.net

to see the 8 patterns in e-book form.

so isn't that a complete style? i know it is a subset in the mantis style, but it seems that it is a style in itself too.

[TheOmega]

If this signifies it as a complete art in itself it is new to me. I do know the principles of Zui Xia, and in my experience and from what I was taught it would be a disaster to be used alone. Though it is often heard as 6th of the 5 forms, I've not seen it stand alone yet. I've seen some who have so mastered Zui Xia that thier other arts are blended into it, making Zui Xia the base, and the other arts the addition. Though any who study 5Form are used to changing arts (stances etc..) often. Though this is only my experience so far, I may discover differently.

[Yang Wei Xin]

Zuijiquan helps strengthen muscles, improve the flexibility of joints and the elasticity of ligaments, and enhance the functional co-ordination between the felling, the nerve, and the muscles. It is also bneficial to the internal organs, such as those of blood circulation and respiration. Therefore, Zuijiquan is a good exercise for fitness building.

Chinese Kung Fu Series 4
Zuijiquan(A Drunkards Boxing)
By Cai Longyun and Shao Shankang
Introduction, 4th Paragraph.

[GodofGamblers]

I found very little info on the net about Zui Quan (many cannot even agree if it even exists!) but I had a discussion with a Canadian who studies it in Vancouver who sent me this description:

"Ok.... I am not sure where to start, please keep in mind I can only speak (write?) about my own experience and style I study. The Drunken style is based on deception, that is of being off-balance and weak when this is not the truth, not trying to make someone believe you are drunk, though I mean if you can pull that off, more power to you. This is accomplished by variious training methods that tend to take a good length of time to master. For balance: first take any traditional stance and see where your limits really are for leaning forward, backward, sideways, etc. From these positions start training techniques. You will find that holding a drunkard holds barrel stance (a horse stance with the entire body leaned over backward) is a very difficult experience at first and being able to execute techniques even more so, and even when you can actually throw a front or side kick for example that it tends to have no power or body conection, bring on more training...

For power and body connection, which is a huge part of any art, the drunkard practitioner must understand and master rocking and swaying. Rocking is a movement of the hips only individually from the rest of the body, by creating this 'disconnection' we can understand what conection is and learn to move the body in concordance with itself during techniques.

Swaying is moving the entire upper body from the hips upward like a willow in the wind, a strong stable root and a flexible spine. These should be done in every single stance that is trained and once each one can be done easily and with balance techniques executed in concordance with them. For instance an easy one is a bow stance while swaying the uper body and using that momentum to fuel a front kick with the rear and / or lead leg.

The main purpose of these exercises is to learn the body very very well. From this we start to learn to move dantien and connect the body so as to release or express real whole body power AKA FaJin. Drunken is not a truly external style rather it has an external shell that looks the way it does, yet the movement of the body must begin inside with dantien. Many qigongs can be used to gain this connection and build qi for use in FaJin and for drunken specifically we do a couple of standing post methods.

The training also involves falling drills, chin na, various theories of movemet and for fighting, etc, etc. "

anyone feel free to PM if you find out any info on Zui Quan.

thx

[GodofGamblers]

What makes Zui Quan complicated is that there is a Buddhist (Shaolin) branch and a Taoist branch. The stories of the origins depends on the branch.

The Shaolin stories usually take place in a monastery (drunken feast, drunken monk, etc) while the Taoist stories involve the 8 Drunken Immortals. The forms vary according to the source. In the Taoist style, there are 8 patterns, each one representing one immortal; in the Buddhist style, there are only a couple forms which don't focus on the characteristics of the 8 immortals, but on unusual techniques. (in the Jackie Chan film, DRUNKEN MASTER, he clearly uses the 8 Immortals Style)

To complicate things, there also appears to be a Northern Style of Zui Quan (which is acrobatic) and a Southern Style (which is less so).

HEre's some more info i gleaned from the net (obviously describing the Taoist version):

Drunken Boxing' is an enigma in Chinese Martial Arts. There is no stand alone "Style" of Drunken Boxing; this is only in the movies. Only a few systems have a true 'Drunken Boxing' set and that set is usually the System's most guarded secret. Choy Li Fut is one such system.

The principle concept behind Drunken Kung Fu, is to move as if one were half drunk. Execution of 'Drunken Boxing' demands extreme flexibility of the joints as well as suppleness, dexterity, power and coordination all of which can be developed in the course of practice.

The secret behind Drunken style kung fu is the sudden release of power from awkward positions. The agile footwork enables the exponent to totter, sway and fall without harm, confusing his opponent, rising up on the tips of his toes then dropping to low, crouched positions. The hand-form which is readily identified with the Drunken style is the Cup-Holding hand-form although in the Choy Li Fut Drunken Set this is replaced with a more practical and lethal "Phoenix Eye Fist" (Fong-Ngan Chui).

'Drunken Boxing' techniques are based on the legend of the 'Eight Immortals' of the Taoist Sect from Chinese Mythology. Each of the techniques in the Drunken Set demonstrates an attribute of one of the Immortals. According to legend, they were invited to an undersea kingdom to a banquet, but all of them became intoxicated and rowdy. All the kingdom's guards attacked, and although the group seemed too inebriated to defend themselves, they created an impromptu style and defeated the guards with their new "Drunken" technique. They are respectfully: Liu Dong Bin, Lam Choy Wah, Ho Sen Ku, Cho Quat Kau, Cheung Guo Lo, Han Sing Tu, Han Chung Li and Tit Gwai Li.

[TheOmega]

Wonderful job GoG. You've done much studying. I have also heard many times that the reason the origins are so unknown is the way the art was guarded. Though I have learned several principles and forms of the art I could hardly call myself a Master in Zui Quan.

[TheOmega]

I would love to continue training in Zui Quan but my Master has exhausted what little he was trained in the art. I fear the only way to fully understand and master this discipline would be to seek out one of the very few who know the art as a whole, and are not comercial thieves just looking to make a quick buck.

[GodofGamblers]

I met someone here in Jakarta who studies it and we have been sparring together. He too professes that he knows little and doesn't want to teach it, while i keep begging him to teach me. I have a lot more info, if you want it. I have a good article on Zui MA. "DRUNKEN FOOTWORK"

This is the key. You must always attack at an angle and appear to be off balance, while actually creating opportunities to attack at weird angles. I'll dig it up it you're interested.

[TheOmega]

I would like to read it. You can email it to me if you like. Yes the angled attack is the precept of any striking. The steps of Zui Quan are the most difficult to get down. So specific, yet you need to have wu shin while performing it. It sounds Zen, no? The best way to work on the footwork is Plum Flower Post training. That is what I have worked with. It is beneficial not only to Zui Quan but I find it strengthening all aspects of balance and movement

[GodofGamblers]

I would like to read it. You can email it to me if you like. Yes the angled attack is the precept of any striking. The steps of Zui Quan are the most difficult to get down. So specific, yet you need to have wu shin while performing it. It sounds Zen, no? The best way to work on the footwork is Plum Flower Post training. That is what I have worked with. It is beneficial not only to Zui Quan but I find it strengthening all aspects of balance and movement


What is Plum Flower Post training?

[GodofGamblers]

If you want to learn more, here are some product links:

http://store.yahoo.com/mavideosrc1/zuiquandrunk.html

http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/shaolinformvideos.html

http://www.leekoonhungkungfu.com/supplies.html

http://www.pegasusboek.nl/martial.html

http://www.chinesecultureonline.com/d:BA:KungFu-Traditional/254.html

and of course, www.ikungfu.net has dozens of patterns for sale in Zui Quan and a number of other Chinese styles.


i got Leung Ting's book on Zui Quan, which seems to be the best on the market... and it is not much use... It details a hopelessly long Tai Chi like pattern that is so obscure that i fail to see how it would help learning Drunken Boxing. It is to be performed very slowly and the movements don't even look Drunken.

However, the preface is quite good and he details the history of Zui QUan. He concludes that it is not a style in itself, by the way...

Despite that, i still aspire to becoming a Drunken Master he he

[TheOmega]

Plum Flower Post training is when you take five stumps, either tree stumps or crafted wood, what have you, and you set it up to resemble a plum flower. If you looked at it from above it would look like the 5 from a 6 sided die. It is general to start with the posts only 6 inches in diameter then shrinking them down to 3 inches when you become comfortable. Here is an image I found of two men demonstrating on them.

http://dragonslist.com/uploads/110_thumb.gif

[GodofGamblers]

Plum Flower Post training is when you take five stumps, either tree stumps or crafted wood, what have you, and you set it up to resemble a plum flower. If you looked at it from above it would look like the 5 from a 6 sided die. It is general to start with the posts only 6 inches in diameter then shrinking them down to 3 inches when you become comfortable. Here is an image I found of two men demonstrating on them.

http://dragonslist.com/uploads/110_thumb.gif


Looks a bit difficult for me! Zui quan has some crazy exercises though. one involves one student carrying a full glass of wine while another tries to take it away from him, all while using Zui Ma footwork he he must look quite funny.

Remember the two key Zui Quan proverbs:

A Drunkard dances alone

and

A boat can float on the water.... but it can also sink :)

[oneinchpunchmaster]

Drunken Kung Fu is very effective. I had a sparring match with my student and was using TaekWondo, He beat me.. I tried Drunken Kung Fu and actually won.. I guess it was the sudden movements that caught him.