Taoist martial arts

[Oniw17]

Are there any Taoist martial arts?

[Dennis Monk]

Considering that a very simple Google search came back with 68,400 hits; I would say the answer is yes.

[sean_stonehart]

Booyah Dennis... :D

[Oniw17]

So, does anyone know any examples that they would care to list?

[sean_stonehart]

Tai Yi Quan ...

Listed one. :eek:

[Dennis Monk]

Booyah Sean!!!

[kodanjaclay]

Bagua, Taijiquan, most things with wudang in front of them, hsing yi, piquan, etc.

[Yang Wei Xin]

Praying Mantis Kung Fu

Altho some would argue with me on that

[QuaiJohnCain]

Hsing-I Chuan (Xingyiquan) and it's predecessors
Tai Chi Chuan
Pa Kua Chang (Baguazhang)
Tong Bei Chuan
Tang Lang Chuan (Mantis)
I-Chuan (Yiquan)

[Yang Wei Xin]

Anytime you see a gim(jian, straight sword), there is usually a taoist reference, the "wandering taoists" of chinese history were known to carry the straight sword wherever they went.

[ling hou]

Josh you are not saying that all jian forms are referenced to Taoist styles are you??? Not really true about the wandering taoists in history...if you are talking about folk stories then yes. The jian was an elities weapon, and because of the large coffers that religion holds (including taoism) many of the priests did carry straight swords...but so did almost everyone at court oh yea and the rich, and officers....and so on.

[sean_stonehart]

... don't forget the scholars ... and wimmins!!!!

[hkdsean]

what exactly do you mean by Taoist martial arts?

MAs that are based off of Taoist principles, MAs traditionally taught by Taoists, etc...

[Yang Wei Xin]

Josh you are not saying that all jian forms are referenced to Taoist styles are you??? Not really true about the wandering taoists in history...if you are talking about folk stories then yes. The jian was an elities weapon, and because of the large coffers that religion holds (including taoism) many of the priests did carry straight swords...but so did almost everyone at court oh yea and the rich, and officers....and so on.

no not trying to say that all jian forms are taoist, just that it is a related symbol.

[ling hou]

it is like saying shaolin arts...where they came from...yes a lot of the principles are based on taoists thought just like a lot of the principles in shaolin are based off of Buddhism....this does not mean that these arts are religious in any way...but the art comes from a religious root.....But interesting, Shaolin is Chan Buddhism is the marrying of Buddhism and Taoism. :) ......always forget those scholars

[Yang Wei Xin]

The inventor of my style (7 star mantis), was a wandering taoist and swordsman by the name of wang lang. The jian is also the only official weapon used in tong long, and is often referred to as a Praying Mantis Sword. I know wang lang is mainly a folk story, but there is some truth to his existence.

[Rasputin]

In a larger sense, since the -do suffix in Japanese martial arts is descended from the word Tao in Chinese, couldn't any -do martial art fill the criteria?

I am lead to understand that the verbiage reflected the shift away from simple killing (-jutsu) and towards an art more geared towards protecting life and moral/ethical advancement (-do).

--a Barbarian's viewpoint.

[Yang Wei Xin]

tao-meaning the way
do-meaning the way

however do in japanese usually has a zen buddhism connotation, which as has been pointed out to me is a combo of tao and buddha, where as tao in chinese is very rarely used as a subtext for a martial art, and refers to a more general idea, not such a regimented belief system.

"the tao that can be tao'd isnot the true tao"

[hkdsean]

interestingly that in Sinmoo Hapkido (a korean art) has a lot of taoist influence. though most hapkido is tied to its Japanese influence through Choi, Young Sul, Sinmoo comes from Ji, Han Jae who credits most of his learning to a man he referred to as Taoist Lee. Though he says this isn't exactly the best title for him, he does say that much of what he learned was from Taoism.

Don't know how this all fits in, but figured I would throw it out there.

[Peter Rehse]

Although most Budo in Japan reference Buddhist thoughts I wont say that it is particular to Zen Buddhism. There are some forms of Budo that have taken on more of the Zen trappings than others but that is besides the point.

The question asked is a pretty good one and I have been thinking about it lately.

Years ago. during my kyu grades, I wrote my first Aikido homepage. At that time I wrote that the Do is taoist and I left it at that. I know its simplistic, and not quite right, but I do wonder where exactly the relationship lies.

It would make a lot more sense if Japanese Do in general is a fusion of Buddhist and Taoist thought. Not meaning to hijack a thread - but any comments?

[Bugeisha]

Peter,
I think the do concept in martial arts was adopted from the zen tradition, even if the art remained seperate from zen. Isn't a zen training center also called a zendo, or dojo? And zen/chan buddhism is a fusion of mahayana buddhist and taoist values.

Question: what were training halls called before the evolution of the do forms from the jutsu forms of the various arts? Is the term dojo traditional, or was it adopted commonly with the growth of the martial ways (as opposed to the martial arts )?

[ling hou]

Let me try….All of this is coming from my memory, so, if I get some things a little wrong or dates wrong don’t shoot me.
Buddhism found its way into China around 300 A.D. (cant remember the exact date). Because of the similarity to Taoism many people just accepted it as another Taoist school of thought. Most of the Buddhism has many of the traditional Taoist thought in it (at least in China). The reason of this is that you usually can’t get very much wide acceptance for a new religion without retaining some of the current thought in place. Plus in the way Buddhism is laid out it is logical to accept both ideas and still remain true to each/both hybrid. There are many different types of Buddhism in China, most died out because of political affiliation with the government.

During the Tang Dynasty, Wu (female) made Buddhism the state religion. This promoted lots of acceptance by the population. During this time Buddhism drifted over to Japan. The Japanese had been practicing Shinto. So they married it with Shinto. This is where the influence of nature comes into Zen and not so much in the counter part of Chan Buddhism. Later Shinto was removed from it. But like all relationships you can’t really remove everything completely. So, Zen held many of the Shinto practices, but referred to them differently.

Chan Buddhism holds a lot of the Taoist thought, and because this is the dominate form that found its way to Japan, Zen also retained a lot of the thought.
A great read is by T. J. Susuki (think it is T. J. might be T.G. or something work with me) who starts out in of his books describing Taoism, he also goes as far as telling of Mencious (?sp) and the butterfly dream.
Hope this helps…
:bow:

[Bugeisha]

Referring to Suzuki's in the Zen system, you likely mean either Shunryu Suzuki, or more likely, D.T. Suzuki.

[ling hou]

see i knew my memory was bad...D.T. Susuki....thanks Dillon

[Lame Leopard]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I have read that Tai Chi, Pa Kua, and Hsing Yi are all Taoist. Bak Mei is said to have both Taoist and Buddhist roots. :)

[Buddy]

These styles are Taoist or Buddhist or whatever in the same way that all Chinese culture is. The styles themselves have nothing to do with religion, only people do.