Revolvers

[ninjandrew]

I dont know too much about handguns. So I figured good ole Budoseek! would be a good place to ask questions.

Do revolvers make good side arms? It seems like so many people prefer the uh... "other" type.

And if I can ask a bonus question, does anyone know of a pistol with this sweet looking barrel, or something similar that isnt this chunky not so practical Desert Eagle?

http://magnumresearch.com/products/DE_10-inch-matt-black.jpg

Thanks

[Cliff Hargrave]

I dont know too much about handguns. So I figured good ole Budoseek! would be a good place to ask questions.

Do revolvers make good side arms? It seems like so many people prefer the uh... "other" type.

Revolvers are great weapons, I carried one (ok, two) daily for many years. I recommend them for civilians/home defense. Stick to the major brands like Colt, S&W, and Ruger. S&W has some really slick airweights and concealed hammer models.

[jackhammer]

Do revolvers make good side arms?

Yes. I use a revolver as my standard sidearm, as do several others I know in SOF groups. SEALs have a .357 as a standard (as well as several pistols) because they will drain faster in water and are more reliable and robust. A lot of army operators I know have taken leaves out of their book. It's not so much that I (or others) think that a pistol will simply jam up. It's that it's easier to keep a revolver in working order when you're in enviroments filled with sand, mud, water, etc. I carried a .44 (colt anaconda) for a while until S&W came out with their .500. I know of several army operators who carry .357s, at least two who carry .44s, and a friend of mine carries a .454 raging bull.
Most of the time I've had to use a sidearm my primary weapon has failed. This could mean a waste of precious seconds. I like a sidearm that I know will fire and will take down the target with one bullet. That's me. I admit that most of those I work with don't mind double tapping a .45 or even a 9mm. One of the lucky things about being in special operations is you get a little more lattitude choosing your weapons than in regular troops. That doesn't mean they'll pay for it though :)

[ninjandrew]

From the name I think I can guess what a concealed hammer is, but what is the benefit?

Why would you recommend a revolver over a pistol?

[ninjandrew]

It's that it's easier to keep a revolver in working order when you're in enviroments filled with sand, mud, water, etc.

That certainly makes sense.

[Cliff Hargrave]

From the name I think I can guess what a concealed hammer is, but what is the benefit?

Doesn't snag on the draw. Usually small revolvers are carried concealed and the hammer spur has a tendancy to catch on clothing.


Why would you recommend a revolver over a pistol?

It depends on the person. They are both good. I recommend revolvers for those that just want a weapon for home defense that is mostly going to sit in a nightstand.

[jackhammer]

Why would you recommend a revolver over a pistol?


It depends on the person. They are both good. I recommend revolvers for those that just want a weapon for home defense that is mostly going to sit in a nightstand.

Cliff would know a lot more about why they're better for civilians or LEO. For me, anywhere I'm going where I expect to get "rugged" conditions, revolvers are my choice.

[David Anderson]

Do revolvers make good side arms? It seems like so many people prefer the uh... "other" type.


Revolvers are fine sidearms if you know how to use them, and you understand their weaknesses.

Revolvers will fire all shapes and powers of ammunition, while autopistols can be very sensitive to ammo type and strength.

You can usually _see_ whether a revolver is loaded or jammed with dirt or pocket lint better than an auto, and this can be important for tyros.

Pistols tend to hold and point more naturally than revolvers, although good grips can make a big difference for revolvers....the fact you can alter the grips a lot is a strength, IMHO.

The actual process of double-action [trigger cocking] shooting in revolvers is a little trickier to learn, although it's quite manageable with practice.

Ammo capacity is usually greater in autos, although the importance of this is debateable.


Best bet...get one of each and figure out which one you like best. Double your fun!

[spdaddy]

The smith and wesson model 642(I believe) with the new crimson trace laser grips would be ideal for home protection if thats what you want a revolver for. As for a duty weapon, my favorite has to be the S&W model 19. Its just a work horse. :) as is the model 15

I've heard and read many people say that revolvers also have a "psychological" advantage to semis. When you are aiming it at a "bad guy" he/she can see the bullets and intimidating barrel. Don't know if this is true or not, but interesting nonetheless.

[jackhammer]

Best bet...get one of each and figure out which one you like best.

only one of each? c'mon.... :)

[TonyU]

I utilize and carry a revolver as a backup weapon. You can't go wrong.

The only limitation as been mentioned is low capacity. In my case by the time I needed it the s*** has hit the fan anyway.
An advantage of the revolver that it's not susceptible to jamming based on operator error (limp wrist).

IMO I'm seeing a trend back towards revolvers, maybe not as a primary but a BUG, due to the ease of concealment and reliability.

[David Craik]

I love revolvers. I'd far rather carry my .357 than most autos.

[ninjandrew]

That psychological factor is interesting. One of the reasons I was considering a revolver. Preferably a large one. Than if needed to use it, the sucker on the other end would find himself staring at this BFG and possibly cooperate a little easier. Of course, any moron wouldnt screw around with a gun pointed at him. But it would just be nice to have an intimidation bonus, for the psychos.

.500 S&W Magnum; too much?

[jackhammer]

.500 S&W Magnum; too much?

You'd be suprised. The .500 S&W round is the most powerful you can find, and yet the weight and size of the model I have (X-frame model 500) makes the recoil a great deal easier. I'm not saying it's a .22, but I find it has less of a kick than my friend's .454. If you're willing to get used to the recoil, it's like having an anti-materiel rifle as a side-arm. But is it necessary? No. Is it better than a .357 or a .44? Well, that's a debate. But nothing I've hit has gotten up again.

[ninjandrew]

jackhammer,

Do you have the 4" or the 8-3/8" barrell model?

[David Craik]

I wonder how much energy dump occurs with a round like that, and if it would have a tendency to overpenetrate without expansion when fired into a human body. How much of a selection of ammo exists (unless you handload), how expensive is it, and how available is it? Would a temporary wound channel or tissue cavitation even occur?

I can get a wide variety of .357, available everywhere, and also use any type of .38 Special. The .357 125 grn SJHP has a 98% one-shot stop rate on the street, greater than the .44 Mag last time I checked.

Don't have any data on the .500 S&W, but near as I can tell it's a hunting round for large game. As a defensive weapon I'm sure it would do the job...likely killing the intended target, 2 or 3 random folk behind him, disabling a '74 Nova that happened to be driving by in the distance, as well as blinding and deafening everyone within 200 feet, but how much testosterone is too much unless one is in danger of being mugged by a tank or assaulted by a rhinocerous?

Okay, a bit of hyperbole there, but personally if I need that much power I'm picking up a rifle. :D

[jackhammer]

Do you have the 4" or the 8-3/8" barrell model?
8-3/8"


How much of a selection of ammo exists (unless you handload)
Fair selection. You can find the usual hollow points, semi-jacketed, etc, with weights from 275 grain to 400 and up.


how expensive is it
It's not cheap, but you can find some ok prices on the net.


and if it would have a tendency to overpenetrate without expansion when fired into a human body.
Would a temporary wound channel or tissue cavitation even occur?



The great thing about using such wide bullets is you don't need much in the way of expansion in order to equal lesser rounds. But yes, depending on the load, you can get great expansion and cause enormous damage even on thin targets (I use a lot of ballistic gelatin to test my firearms).



likely killing the intended target, 2 or 3 random folk behind him, disabling a '74 Nova that happened to be driving by in the distance, as well as blinding and deafening everyone within 200 feet


Where i work, this is usually a good thing. And no one drives Nova's there :) Also, when you have browning .50s going off nearby, nobody's really going to care about a .500 revolver. If I'm entering a building (unless the goal is simply to clear it out) I carry a glock 20 as a sidearm.


but how much testosterone is too much unless one is in danger of being mugged by a tank or assaulted by a rhinocerous?

I've been mugged by a tank or two in my time :) Unfortunately, .500 S&W is only effective against light armor, like a '74 Nova :)

One of the reasons I really like the round is that it will kill those with and without body armor just as easily.

[TonyU]

At the risk of a thread drift.
Here are some of my toys.
Not as impressive as some of my southern friends, but better than David's anemic collection :) .

[jackhammer]

*sniff* I always cry at beautiful works of art.

[spdaddy]

At the risk of a thread drift.
Here are some of my toys.
Not as impressive as some of my southern friends, but better than David's anemic collection :) .


Is the silver .45 a Detonics? Just wondering as it has that type of hammer. Haven't seen one of those in a while.

A .500(or anything for that matter), is useless if you can't hit your target. My advice is to get a .38 special(a very good defensive round) revolver, practice, practice, practice.......did I mention practice?, and then go from there.
I can guarantee that if you shoot someone with a .500 in your house, its going through them and possibly killing a loved one. Not the choice I would make for civilian self defense. As far as MILITARY applications, I totally see where it would be advantagous to have a .500 :)

[TonyU]

Is the silver .45 a Detonics? Just wondering as it has that type of hammer. Haven't seen one of those in a while.

Yes it is. Detonics Combatmaster. :)
I was debating selling it. Since they are no longer in production I figured I could get a good price for it, but I changed my mind.
BTW another .45 is soon to join the family.

[David Craik]

At the risk of a thread drift.
Here are some of my toys.
Not as impressive as some of my southern friends, but better than David's anemic collection :) .

And unlike certain Yankees, I don't need either a Super Ambidextrous Combat Death Ray®, nor firepower sufficient to simultaneously equip Rambo, John Spartan, and a LRRP in order to put a hole in someone. :D

[TonyU]

And unlike certain Yankees, I don't need either a Super Ambidextrous Combat Death Ray®, nor firepower sufficient to simultaneously equip Rambo, John Spartan, and a LRRP in order to put a hole in someone. :D
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, but their fun to play with. Plus I'm ready for the revolution.
BTW, I caught that plastic joke before you edited it. :D

[David Craik]

Yeah, I took that out since you only have 2 Glocks...

Of course, I'd own a lot more if I had the money to blow on them. My better half seems to think that boring stuff like eating and having clothes are more important. If I was in your line of work though, Tony, I'd probably be able to better justify buying more. Beaufort isn't exactly a hotbed of violent assault.

[jackhammer]

Is the silver .45 a Detonics? Just wondering as it has that type of hammer. Haven't seen one of those in a while.

A .500(or anything for that matter), is useless if you can't hit your target.

Too true, too true...



I can guarantee that if you shoot someone with a .500 in your house, its going through them and possibly killing a loved one.

Don't forget your expensive china!



Not the choice I would make for civilian self defense.

No, but civilian hunting... nothing like hunting with only a revolver.

[TonyU]

Yeah, I took that out since you only have 2 Glocks...

Ah..., but you missed the KZ-45 in the top left. It's also polymer.

Of course, I'd own a lot more if I had the money to blow on them. My better half seems to think that boring stuff like eating and having clothes are more important. If I was in your line of work though, Tony, I'd probably be able to better justify buying more. Beaufort isn't exactly a hotbed of violent assault.
That's what overtime money is for.
I got my wife trained. Everytime I go to a gun show or store she asks if I bought another gun. Also when we did our taxes this year and I gave my accountant the receipts she asked "What, no gun this year?"
One can never have too many toys.

[David Craik]

Must be nice to be paid for overtime.

[spdaddy]

Hey Tony, mind giving advice on how to train your spouse. I would love to have mine trained to not mind me buying guns, but I think nothing less than a shock collar would do. hmmmmmmm :up:

Whats the .45 your adding? Is it that Sig GSR?

No china plates here Andy, although it might destroy my wife's boyds bear collection(oh the horror). :laugh:

Just to get on back on the subject, I believe revolvers also make a good weapon because of the prices. Most are less expensive than semis, although there are some that exceed the 500$ range.

[TonyU]

Whats the .45 your adding? Is it that Sig GSR?
No, the Kimber Warrior. It's in production as we speak. It's on order.


Just to get on back on the subject, I believe revolvers also make a good weapon because of the prices. Most are less expensive than semis, although there are some that exceed the 500$ range.
You mean like this one. It lists for over $700.00.

[David Craik]

Anyone remember the Korth revolver (not sure if these are still made)? Just under $5000.

[ninjandrew]

Any opinions on Taurus revolvers?

[David Craik]

Their early ones were purportedly a bit rough, but I have one I bought in about 1990 (a 669) and I love it. The stock wooden grips were rather clubby, so I replaced them with Pachmayrs. I have found it very accurate and well-made.

[Sgathak]

The Korth is in my 2005 Guns Mag Buyers guide.

Price ranges between $4394 and $11,000 depending on options.

Kinda spendy for a 22LR revolver (one of 7 caliber options)

[ninjandrew]

I was looking at this Taurus model in particular. The 608

http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_608SS8.jpg

A hot looking, intimidating, .357 mag. Not too pricey (MSRP $547.00)
Good reviews. Im not interested in a scope though...

[David Craik]

I take it concealability isn't a big factor for you Andrew...unless you're getting a shorter barrel length. :D

[ninjandrew]

Oh no. 8" for sure. It will be in my nightstand 99% of the type.

[David Craik]

I'd 'download' it with .38 +P or .38 Glasers then. Firing fullhouse .357's in a darkened structure is painful...and God help you if for some reason you missed, as you have now rendered yourself temporarily both blind and deaf.

[ninjandrew]

.38 +P or .38 Glasers

Whats that? Im only familiar with .38 Special and .38 Super...

[David Craik]

.38 Special +P is a .38 Sp. loaded to a higher pressure (typically around 18,500 PSI compared with 17,000 or so in a standard loading), while Glaser safety Slugs are frangible rounds that are loaded with shot and fragment on impact. These are fairly hot too, but with a barrel that length muzzle blast will likely be kept to a minimum.

A Google search should bring up more info on frangible rounds like the Glaser and Mag-Safe...right now the ol' lady's dragging me off to Wal-Mart.. :(

[spdaddy]

Thats a nice revolver. I meant not too pricey as far as the used revolvers. At least in this area. I like the Kimber Raptor. Very cool slide serrations.

Yeah I'd also go with Glasers if thats the revolver you want.

[ninjandrew]

Why the Glaser type rounds?

[David Craik]

No chance of penetrating walls and hitting neighbors, etc. should you miss. Also create a helluva nasty wound. Since I don't completely trust them against heavy clothing though, I used to load those in summer and .38 +P Hydrashoks in winter when a goblin would be more likely to be wearing a heavy coat.

So I guess you're moving from Japan soon?

[ninjandrew]

Maybe. I intended to stay for a few years. But living here is alot different than being an exchange student (in Gr.11).

Living here, well... sucks. Im not the only one that thinks so either. But if possible I want to go back to the agricultural town I was at 4 yrs. ago. Most foreigners I talk to agree Tokyo sucks. Maybe kinda sorta cool to visit, but I cant stand it.

[David Craik]

Just wondering because I was unsure how feasible buying a handgun in Japan would be - not to mention the repurcussions if you ever used it. It sho'nuff ain't Texas.

Not very much need for one there either, unless ticking off tattooed guys is one's hobby of choice. :)

[David Anderson]

Getting back to the main subject... I see in the latest [August] Combat Handguns magazine that Smith and Wesson is selling a model M21-4 44 Spl. revolver. 4" barrel, fixed sights. It looks pretty sweet and would make a great knockaround revolver and general sidearm [assuming you like revolvers for that]. The .44 Spl is a great round, and can be found in many loads from mild to wild.

Now if they'd just make one in .41 Mag...