Basic Costs in Opening a School

[KungFuGirl]

My husband and I are headed down the road of opening a school. I won't go into all the details here, but we just need some advice for our business plan. Specifically, I need to know what kinds of costs other instructors have had and what they generally run.
So far we have found a place that is about 2600 square feet for about 55-65 cents a square foot (depending upon things like who pays for the air conditioning when it breaks!)
We know the utilities run about 175 on the highest month.
I figure we need to budget about $100 a month for our business phone line.

What else? And I mean specific.. like how much do you spend on toilet paper?? :) We need to be very specific in our business plan. We aren't getting a loan at this time, but want to know what it will cost.
Thanks in advance,

Sandra Butler

[Eliz]

Hi Sandra,
I don't own a school, but I've certainly taught in my share of schools.

I don't have specific numbers. Sorry. But here are some expenditures that come to mind:

-Matts/mirrors
-Changing rooms
-Cleaning supplies (these costs sneak up fast!)
-First Aid supplies
-Benches/chairs for people to sit
-Inventory (mainly doboks - but some schools carry quite a bit of inventory)
-toilet paper/hand soap/paper towels/ trash can liners
-Office supplies (computer,printer,fax,file cabinet, cash register/or cash box - this list is endless)
-Postal supplies
-Advertising
-Insurance


And than the big spending: MA training equipment. The schools that I've taught in that attract younger students usually have a HUGE variety of training equipment. (and shelves to store everything on) The schools I've been in that are more adult oriented, really get by with the basics.

The TKD school I'm teaching for barters a lot of services and supplies. (free training in exchange for...) It works well. The school has been around for a long while and is very well known. Another school I know of purchased MA equipment 2nd hand - auctions, private sales, etc. A little beat up looking, but in great condition overall.

Best of luck. :)

[kodanjaclay]

I have owned a 4,000 sq ft facility in VA. The things that Eliz cited are just about basic requirements. You will also have to be concerned with CAM but if you look enough you may be able to find some flex space, which is typically cheaper. You may also be able to work out several months free while you get started. I have a really good book that helps figure some of this stuff out and I'll see if I can get the title for you... oh, and you need to add your baseline salary to the over head so you can plan for it. Send me an email to remind me to find that book title for you.
frankclay@indy.rr.com

[kodanjaclay]

I also forgot to mention. Give some details in your email so I can share them with my wife. She is an MBA and is about to enroll in her PhD program for business. (If I don't kill her before she gets it that is... MBA was bad enough!! :t2: )

[DragonMind]

Here's some places to start.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0804834288/qid=1118424595/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-6361505-3195128?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.small-dojo-big-profits.com/

I'll pull more together when I have some time, probably over the weekend.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I once picked the brain of a successful businessman for the same reason. He told me that you should figure out to the penny how much money you should need to start your business and the operating costs to run it for three to six months. Check with similar businesses and make sure you figure everything in, from toilet paper to utilities. Then when you finally have the amount.............triple it.

[kmtsd]

What Cliff said is most important...

Unless you are taking over an existing school don't count on making a profit for atleast 6 months...maybe more if the area you will be working is not a high turnover population... I think this is the biggest mistake our friends have made... it really takes about 2 years to build up a school.
We started a new school from scratch in a working town with low turnover...it took two years to start earning a profit. (But we knew this ahead of time and negotiated the rental for 6 months-no rent, then one year 1/2 rent... the owner originally turned us down...but after the empty building sat there for 6 more months he took up our offer...its been 8 years and the school is strong now)
We have had several other friends end up paying the rent for the school with money from their "real" jobs or savings and losing all of it because they didn't count on the time you need to build the business.
Maybe you are teaching a class at a gym or the YMCA... you can't count on all the students following you...
For the longest time I remember teaching one student on a Saturday morning...and 5 or 6 students was a "big" class, now my saturday mornings have 15-20+ students and our biggest classes are 30+...you have to hang in there and don't give up(if you can afford it)

[De_Franza]

I don't own a school, and have only general adivce, but I was going to say what Cliff said: figure it to the worst case scenario, and at least double it. and figure on 5 times as much TIME as you think it will take to get going (years to self-sufficiency, not hours per week, I mean). also paln for the scenario that you get no or few students for 3, 4 5 months.... eek! what then?
To help avoid/mitigate that problem, you need to advertize... and word of mouth is best for that, but not always tangeble and easy to generate. I'm sure there's a thread or three about it on here somewhere.
Don't forget insurance! and it's worth using a lawyer for the legal forms such as liability wavers that you make every student sign.

NOt to sound discouraging, but you sound like this won't be discouraging. ALL THE BEST!!!

[DragonMind]

My husband and I are headed down the road of opening a school. I won't go into all the details here, but we just need some advice for our business plan. Specifically, I need to know what kinds of costs other instructors have had and what they generally run.
So far we have found a place that is about 2600 square feet for about 55-65 cents a square foot (depending upon things like who pays for the air conditioning when it breaks!)
We know the utilities run about 175 on the highest month.
I figure we need to budget about $100 a month for our business phone line.

What else? And I mean specific.. like how much do you spend on toilet paper?? :) We need to be very specific in our business plan. We aren't getting a loan at this time, but want to know what it will cost.
Thanks in advance,

Sandra Butler

First, if the facility is decent that is an outstanding price/sq-ft.

Make them pay for the A/C since they own the property and get a tax break for repairs, but invest in business continuity insurance. Doesn't matter who pays for the A/C if you're out of business for two weeks waiting on parts. Add a contingency clause to your contract that specifies remedies if you are unable to operate due to landlord repairs (e.g. free rent, etc).

Some areas you need to budget for:
Payroll = salaries + payroll taxes + SS + worker's comp + benefits

Sales and Marketing = 10% of gross income. During the first six months you'll be spending heavily on advertising in standard media since you won't have much word-of-mouth.

Initial Equipment = depends on the style of MA

Depreciation and Replacement = estimate useful life and future cost

Insurance = business continuity + contents + liability

Rent = sq footage + CAM + projected increases

Utilities = last year's averages + projected rate increases

Leased Equipment

Consumable Supplies

Web site hosting & development

Internet connection

Contingency = 5% of gross income

One problem with your question is that many of the numbers will depend on how many students, operating hours, and MA style. Consider having a service do the cleaning and supplies like toilet paper. That way you have a fixed amount to budget for. Make your best guess about the little consumables but don't stress over them too much. No school ever went broke buying too much toilet paper. Hit Sam's/CostCo and buy in bulk.

You really need to focus on your costs to get students in the door and keep them. That means a solid, CONSISTENT marketing plan; a manageable and complete curriculum; and a regular self-improvement plan for instructors. Look at the factors that kill new schools and plan how you are going to deal with them.

Another good resource: Martial Arts Teachers Assoc (http://www.martialartsteachers.com/index.php?page=Planning%20Your%20School) :D

[KungFuGirl]

Thanks to everyone for the details. Dragonmind: we do belong to MATA, it is a great resource.

If anyone has a martial arts business plan that they could share as an example, that would be great.

Right now we are just trying to find a decent spot to continue working... besides my living room.. we are looking at several dance studios..

I think we may be able to take the leap in January..
We have about 15 people from the old school who left soon after we did and have asked us if we are going start a new school.
Nick also has a list of about 20-25 other people who have expressed interest in starting. Every week someone new asks us if they can join once we start, so our word of mouth advertising seems good already... granted not all of those 40 are going to join, but it is a good start. If we get space in the dance studio, we can build a little bit until January and open with a good 50 people.. I hope. Also a nice thing, is that we have many upper belts who have already been doing the art 2-4 years who will be with us when we open.. not just a bunch of white belts.

If anyone has any other good advice, please let me know, we are continuing to plan and of course practice Kung Fu whenever we can.. :)

Sandra Butler

[KungFuGirl]

Just talked to the landlord for the property we are interested in: it is only $600 a month, no CAM... Downside.. rent month to month.. in the future he will rebuild that area.. more details in July. But for a first place it can't be beat!

[Eliz]

Congratulations Sandra :)

Month to month is tough, I agree. But it is also a good out for you if you get in there and find the facility is not all you thought it would be. Is this the dance studio?

[KungFuGirl]

The dance studio didn't work out. She said at first that her dance studio was open practicallly all summer, then we found out about this class and that class.. until we could only use it Monday after 8. Friday, Saturday after 3. Nobody could do these times. The landlord who owns this space is a martial artist himself and likes to see MA businesses go up, even though as he says "they are risky". We are meeting with him this morning to talk.

[Typoman]

So far all the advice given has been right on track.

Addtional things to consider.

Business liscense
Sole prop or LLC?
Accountant ( New to business learn your tax options & liablities)
Review Labor laws in your state ( if you hire staff)
Liablity insurance, rental insurance,
Cost of Alarm system
Utilites including trash pick-up, sewer, water, power ( some where mentioned)
Lawyer fees
Cost of Yellow page ads, website(maybe), fyliers, promotional marketing costs.

Are you attempting a business Loan?
check out possiblity of grants, Small business assocation etc.
( female owner has better chance of getting Loan via govt agency if you go that route. So determine ownership issues upfront)

Good luck with your business.

Why most people fail in business, it that they don't execute an effective marketing campaign to drive paying customers to their business. They put all their eggs into one or two resources that are two expensive for their budget.

A website is a great marketing tool, if you use it properly and optimize it for your geographical location. For example I see 1000's of MA websites that are all flash, have neet names, or Joe's dojo.com. They are ineffective. If you have Joe's Dojo Your city your state.com and optimize the site for your geographical location, then you will get top search engine results for every mother looking via google, yahoo, MSN for "self defense" "Martial Arts" in your city.

When starting your marketing, make sure you cross-reference all materal on all marketing advertisment. If you have a website, make sure all material has the website url.

Work on your Advertisment, your Plan. If that is successful, then everything else will be successful. The location can be a Top of the line, but if you are not getting people to visit and then sign up ( make a Sale) then it doesn't matter if the Location is the top of the line or a hole in the wall.

If you want to pick my brain on any more of this just let me know.

Eric
Richmond VA

[KungFuGirl]

Thanks for the reply.
We filed our fictitious business name already and we are set up as a sole Prop, but it has husband wife on the fictitious business name. We are going to use the webiste a great deal. Our domain is www.reddingmartialarts.com When someone types in our redding and martial arts, we should come up pretty high. We have an older couple who is willing to give us initial capital and then in January I might try for the loan (yes it is easier as a woman).

One question: what is the effectiveness of radio advertising? Is it worth the money?

Thanks
Sandra

[Typoman]

Thanks for the reply.

One question: what is the effectiveness of radio advertising? Is it worth the money?

Thanks
Sandra

In general terms, radio advertisement is more effective than print advertisment, however it is Niche centered. Meaning you are targeting a certian group or demographic with radio ads.

Is it worth the money? That depends upon the scope of your ad, who you are targeting, what is your message, who is listening to your message, and then the converson rates.

Unfortunately, with MA Schools, there is a single location, with a narrow target audience, that wants your goods & services. To reach them effectively, you need to have Advertisement presence in their "comfort zones".

Let's say you feel as a business you only want to work with Adults. Ask yourself, in your community were do the "active" adults hang out, shop, play, etc. Those area's or services that cater to those area's is where you want to advertise. Radio could be effective if the station does "reach" your target demographic.

As a start up business, Personally I would concentraite on the ground floor advertisment (cheaper) before working up to more expensive (radio tv etc).

Must have advertisment:
1) Yellow page ad or lisiting ( can be expensive)
2) Website that is Geographical detailed ( Redding? Where? California,Pennsilvania, Ohio ?? Change your title tag to include your state. Aslo put your physcial address on your web Index Home page.
3) A continual ongoing promotional campaign, that targets your "core audience" with your "message" wether it is something simple like a newsletter,a flyier,a business card, an email signature tag with website URL, or Print and radio ads. Something MUST be visable at all times and is cross-referenced in all media/ advertisments.


In short, I believe in a strong level marketing campaign, before I Spend more $ on Radio and TV etc. If your "ad" is not well written and conveys the right message,it could be more harmful then benifical. When you are ready to take the jump to upper level adveritsment like radio, you will know it already. It won't be should I? It will be it is now the time for it.

[Typoman]

I have owned a 4,000 sq ft facility in VA.

Bullshido...notice how member closed account after I reached this thread.. nuff said.

[Dennis Monk]

Bullshido...notice how member closed account after I reached this thread.. nuff said.
This member was a senior moderator on this forum. He closed his account for reasons other than this thread, I can assure you.

[Typoman]

removed by user

[Mandeigh Wells]

why does this thread need to be deleted?

[KungFuGirl]

Had another question: Besides Century, and Tiger Claw where do you order supplies from? We would mainly be ordering weapons and uniforms, no sparring gear just so you know that doesn't apply to us. I've heard that Century can be difficulty. At the last place we were at, it seemed that the orders always had something wrong with them (I was the one who did invoices). But then, I didn't do the ordering and things were generally disorganized there, so I don't really know if it was century's fault.

So who do you all order from?

[Typoman]

I know a bunch of people that had problems with Century messing up orders. We dropped them as our Uniform Supplier and went with THE BOLD LOOK.

Fantastic prices, customer service.

They do uniforms, Screen Printing, weapons, and anything custom.

The Bold Look
1-800-624-8679 X 121
Carol Dipietro
Vice President of Sales

"They Only Deal with School Owners for Whole Sale Accounts" No retail services.

[Abbax8]

What does "CAM" stand for?

Peace

Dennis

[DragonMind]

Sandra,

Eric has given really good advice. Consider too that your draw is going to be primarily within a 3-5 radius of your location. What are the demographics of the people in that area? Consider those factors in designing your marketing materials. If they are mostly 18-22 year-old college students, you don't want to advertise your Tiny Tigers kid programs too heavily. Talk to mailing list vendors. You can buy very demographically targeted mailing lists for not a lot of money. Direct mail advertising with a query generator has a better return rate and ROI compared to many blanket approaches.

[DragonMind]

What does "CAM" stand for?

Peace

Dennis
Common Area Maintenance. A surcharge added on to cover expenses for parking lots, common signage, etc.

[DragonMind]

Had another question: Besides Century, and Tiger Claw where do you order supplies from? We would mainly be ordering weapons and uniforms, no sparring gear just so you know that doesn't apply to us. I've heard that Century can be difficulty. At the last place we were at, it seemed that the orders always had something wrong with them (I was the one who did invoices). But then, I didn't do the ordering and things were generally disorganized there, so I don't really know if it was century's fault.

So who do you all order from?
I've had good luck with Best Martial Arts (http://sangmoosa.com/) and Karate Depot (http://www.karatedepot.com/). Check out the Suppliers forum for more ideas.

[kmtsd]

we get wholesale prices from Asian World Martial Arts Supplies(awma.com)... but also occasionally order from martialartssupermarket.com

[Typoman]

speaking of AWA...that reminds me, Look to set up your Own shipping account with UPS, Fed Ex or the start-up DHL (?), you will save ton's on the shipping charges that some of these companies "ADD" to shipping charges. When you set up a whole sale account ask if they can use a 3rd party shipping account via your shipper (UPS Etc).

Century is notorious for Adding 5-10 to even $15 over "true Shipping".

I use UPS because of a very nice intergrated computer package that you can print lables, track packages from your desk top. I am sure the others do the same.

Also Inquire about "true Shipping Charges" when setting up a whole sale account if the company doesn't offer 3rd party shipping.

[Typoman]

Any Updates on your progress?

[KungFuGirl]

We are waiting for the landlord to call us. Previous tenat is scheduled to be out Aug. 31. He said he would call us after July 1st. Other than that, ordered a few things from century and just doing Kung Fu in the living room! :)

[Jinzai]

Sandra,

It looks like you've already received some really good advice in this thread. However, there are a couple of things I would suggest.

First, get established as an LLC or S-Corp as soon as possible. It's worth the money and will save you headaches down the road by limiting your liability. It's okay to start as a sole proprietor, but once you start bringing in some money make the switch. Also, get good insurance before you open (I've used www.myfitnessinsurance.com and find their rates to be very competitive).

Second, check with your state's laws on month-to-month lease agreements, and make sure you understand your rights if the landlord wants you to move. I once spent a lot of money and time fixing up a location, only to have the landlord kick me out once I had the place looking great - and it almost cost me my business. So, know your rights and have an exit strategy in place.

Third, Typoman's comments on advertising were valid and useful. I'd just like to add that 90% of your students are going to come from within a 2.5 to 5 mile radius of your location. So, focus your advertising in your immediate area as much as possible. There are many good ways to do this, including using fliers and door hangers, bandit signs, placing signs on your vehicles, banners in front of your location, advertising in local community papers and bulletins, and making your presence known by demonstrating and appearing in local community events and venues.

I hope this helps, and I wish you the best of success in your new studio!

Best regards,

[KungFuGirl]

Thanks for the advice,

We talked a long time with the landlord.. if we get the spot, it will be temporary. As he remodles this set of buildings he will build to suit for us so we can move in at the end building before he remodels the one we will be in.
In the meantime, it will be rough, but the rent is cheap!

:)
Sandra Butler

[Jinzai]

Ah, "cheap rent" - words that are music to my ears!

Once again, best of success with the studio!

[kozak]

I wish you good luck! I remember when I first started out. It ain't easy!! But keep at it! I am. My school isn't the main breadwinner, but considering its a Sambo school, its doing ok.

[ling hou]

Wonder if there are any updates?

[KungFuGirl]

Well, we are on our fourth try now, but this seems like a winner. We are negotiating terms with a gymnastics studio. They have a side floor we will be using and the rent will start out about $300 a month. Will give more details later.

Sandra Butler

[Jinzai]

Hi Sandra,

Any updates on your school opening? I hope everything went well! I wanted to let you know that I just put up a new free site at http://starting-a-martial-arts-school.com. I was charging a fee for access to the content I have there on another site, but I didn't have the time to promote the old site like I should so I was losing money on it. Since I had all the content anyway, I switched to a less expensive host and posted all the articles there for anyone to read. Feel free to check it out - the info is solid and based on the book, so you should be able to find some helpful advice.

Good luck Sandra!

Best regards,

Mike Massie

[Jeff Burger]

Basic cost for opening a school.


Your soul.


Jeff :(

[Jinzai]

Jeff,

I take it you're speaking about the myth that you have to change your approach to teaching, etc., in order to run a successful school. However, I don't want to assume too much, so please elaborate on your comment.

Thanks,

[DragonMind]

No Michael, Jeff has just been through the "first-year trials" and is venting. His is a particularly difficult challenge because of the school's status as a charity and the difficulties of working with inner city kids. Jeff would close the school before he ever compromised on his standards.

[Jeff Burger]

Yeah Im venting.

To elaborate...hmmm.

Its ALOT more work than I thought. Some of that work is stuff I do want to do.
The non-profit aspect makes for even more work.

Working with troubled kids I was ready for, its what I wanted to do. The hardest part is seeing kids with potential with crappy home lives that will likely vampire that potential.
A sad part with the non-profit its not a what good are you doing but who do you know when it comes to raising money. I have seen great improvements in kids I cant imagine popular therapy achieving.
New England is the worst place to have a non-profit (according to charity index, people give less here).
Seems every year some big catastrophy comes along and people send their money there (thats ok Id like to see no major catastrophies so we could be inline for those donations).


I feel I have compromised some. Some have worked out for the good and some I have taken back.
Was it Peter or Paul who said... "I catered to everyone that I may save a few"?
There are always a few people who "get it", but the majority whine for it but dont want it.

Im not surprised that people can suck, Im surprised at the # and how much they can suck.
Seems everybody has some pet peeve they wanted catered (dont cater...a new pet peeve will ALWAYS replace it).
I had a parent of one of our best success stories try to round up all the parents to get together to not pay cause her son wasnt getting promoted.
This person was getting free classes and free privates when I had the time.
We even fed them our lunch (Fightgrrl and I).

Its taken away from my training and killed some of the love I had for the arts.

I dont know if keeping the school open is stubborness or stupidity.
I have been considering closing the school and going to Asia for an extended period of time now for awhile.

Id still like toteach but maybe just in seminar or via video. That way i get to share some stuff but dont have to deal with people as much.


So when I calculate rent, utilities, time, effort, fustration......

Basic cost of opening a school = your soul.


Jeff

[Jeff Burger]

Barry Id like to thank you for the info you shared here on Budoseek.
I didnt comment much on those threads but I looked forward to them.


Jeff

[Jeff Burger]

Mr. Massie
I havent checked out your website (just noticed it today).

But this comment bothered me.......
"Inspirational stories that prove just about anyone can start and grow a profitable martial arts school."


Jeff

[rgoad]

Jeff,

How do you keep your standards up? Your story about the threatened boycott shows the pressure nearly every school owner faces. Are you basically covering all the expenses out of pocket? Do the class sizes fluctuate a lot?

Richard C. Goad

[Jeff Burger]

I dont pay out of my pocket...however my pocket isnt get helped either.

Things do flucuate. Summer sees a dip and back to school and New Year resolutions a jump.

As far as the pressure there wasnt any, I told them Id rather close the school. Few people were sympathetic to her.

Keeping standards...time in grade, effort, ability.

Jeff

[Jinzai]

Thanks for sharing your experiences here, Jeff. I can definitely relate.

I saw your earlier post, and I asked for you to elaborate, only because I get a lot of feedback from people who mistakenly believe you have to become a full-on McDojo to run a financially successful school. Not true.

Now, if you want to build a school with 1200 students, sure, you're going to have to compromise your standards, but I certainly don't advocate going that route. In my experience and observations, small schools with low overhead and high profit margins have proven to be the most attractive route for the serious martial artist who would like to teach as a career while keeping their program quality high.

Jeff, if it's any consolation, I had a hell of a time starting my first school - and I failed twice in two previous attempts at getting a studio off the ground. It ended up taking two years and a lot of trial and error to get over the learning curve and make things work on my third attempt. Still, I had some rough spots during that first year. For example, I once had to sleep in the school office for a whole month, because I couldn't pay the rent on my apartment and keep the school open.

I don't know what you're going through, personally. However, I know that no matter what the situation starting a new school is no easy task. All I can say is hang in there, because it will be worth it later.

Best regards,

[Jinzai]

Mr. Massie
I havent checked out your website (just noticed it today).

But this comment bothered me.......
"Inspirational stories that prove just about anyone can start and grow a profitable martial arts school."


Jeff

Well, if I can do it, anyone can - if they are willing to make all the sacrifices I made (see previous post in this thread). When I started, I was a clueless bonehead with no idea what I was doing (I'm still somewhat of a bonehead, but at least now I have a clue). It wasn't until I started learning from other successful instructors (and not guys with so-called "McDojos" - I'm talking folks who were doing well running smaller schools of less than 200 students) that I started to do better financially.

About people "sucking" - it is my observation that the attitudes of the general public have changed quite a bit in the last ten years or so. And, the complaining, whining, bickering, and other stuff you have to deal with can suck the life out of you - if you allow it to (and after a while it can be difficult, when you're pouring your heart into something that other people have no respect for).

Man, I wish you the best, because it sounds like you are a man after my own heart. Whatever you decide to do, I hope things work out for you.

Best regards,

[Jeff Burger]

I will look at the site more when i have time...off to classes soon.

Im not sure if it is worth doing. Im pretty burned out right now.
Trying to get back to me and what I wanted from the start.

Jeff

[ling hou]

Jeff, I don’t want to sound like a no it all….because I am far from that. But have you ever considered to not being a non-profit. Run the school for profit and then you can give scholarships to those students that truly need it. That way you don’t have to worry about that evil grant writing process (which I have done and it is crazy and frustrating). Then you can concentrate on getting paying customers and allocate funds and time to a marketing plan and not spend time researching and writing those grants. Plus you can raise your rates to an appropriate level and the students that don’t really want help…you don’t have to kill yourself for. I think it is great what you are attempting to do, but at what cost? What I mean is if you stop teaching and the kids that are really seeing a benefit will lose out on having you as their teacher. And for the kid whose mother wanted her son to get promoted, if you are giving the scholarship and not some donation then you can easily say to the mother that you are the one who is paying.
I don’t know just trying to subjectively look at your problems. Keep us informed.

[Jeff Burger]

Not everyone gets free classes. Kids in the K.I.C.K. program get low rates, partial or full scholarships. We also cover their tournament cost and dont charge for promotions.

We have several adult classes that help fund (as you mentioned above) the youth program.


Jeff

[John Bennett]

I had a parent of one of our best success stories try to round up all the parents to get together to not pay cause her son wasnt getting promoted. This person was getting free classes and free privates when I had the time. We even fed them our lunch.

Ouch. That's raw.

Keep up the good work Jeff.

But like Kurt said, perhaps you should consider going high-profit private. Guys who love motorcycle racing pay for their passion by running a high-profit motorcycle shop. Perhaps your charity kid-building classes could be funded by an exclusive high-end MA school.

That way you could retain your soul. :wink2:

[Jeff Burger]

Like I said adults pay and that helps support the K.I.C.K. program.

I have some personal training people who have deep pockets. I havent yet figured out how to convince them to make a tax deductable donation to our program.
I have come right out and asked. I told them I may be closing the school and if I do I will leave Boston. They ask me to stay and I say..."Well help the program out".


Jeff

[rgoad]

Jeff,

Why do you do it? Do you need the schooll as income to stay in Boston? Do you teach these kids because you think martial arts is good for them? Do you teach to further your art?

You have wealthy clients. Do they refer you to other wealthy clients? Would you be willing to devot the majority of you time to the wealthy and take only the most needy as your pro bono work?

This sounds like work nearly any martial arts instructor would like to do, sans the administratium. But the selling of the soul may be tricky and happen where you least expect it. It seems to happen to everyone.

Please accept these questions as respectfully asked.

Richard C. Goad

[Jeff Burger]

Why do you do it?
Its a mission close to my heart. I grew up poor in a bad neigborhood and I believe martial arts really saved me from that environment.

Do you need the school as income to stay in Boston?
No, but I would like the school to have its head above water (less financial stress).
The school actually keeps me here in Boston, I hate the cold.
My income comes from other sources (personal training, private lessons, seminars, investments and odd jobs).

Do you teach these kids because you think martial arts is good for them?
Yes

Do you teach to further your art?
If Im reading that right the answer is no. I dont teach to further my personal practice.
I would like to teach to further the art / share the art (difference being my art vs THE art). Thats just one of the passions I find I have less time, energy and desire to chase after getting done was needs to get done.

You have wealthy clients. Do they refer you to other wealthy clients?
No, the chic yuppy thing to do is get results and keep your trainer a secret.

Would you be willing to devot the majority of you time to the wealthy and take only the most needy as your pro bono work?
Probably not.


I think most people would look at my situation and say "walk away". But I have put in alot of time and effort renovating the school, teaching.....
Im not just going to walk away from something I started until I have to.
Dedication vs motivation


Jeff

[rgoad]

Jeff,

You sound like a very good man. More martial arts teachers should be like you. Don't let yourself become bitter and develop a false impression of neither your needy students nor the wealthy ones. You may be too nice for your own good! It sounds like you should drop some clients who are abusive. Some rich, some poor.

Richard C. Goad

[KungFuGirl]

Well, we have opened our school at the gymnastics studio. We have all of 6 paying students so far.. but it's only been 2 weeks. We are excited... maybe someday we will be able to quit one of our day jobs!

[rockatear]

Congratulations KungFuGirl!!!!!! :bow: :cool: :toast:

Chaim Potok in one of his books says in the first chapter something like "Beginnings are always the hardest". I remembered that when I gave birth to my first son and then again when the second came along.

I'm a newbie here so I backtracked to the beginning of the thread, read most of the posts. It is heartwarming to see the beginning and then to see you actually did it. I wish you much success and blessings on your new journey.:karate:

with respect,

[KungFuGirl]

Things are going well, we had a new signup last night! Update more later, going to class.

[Eliz]

Congrats Sandra. :) Glad to hear all is well.

[KungFuGirl]

We are going strong with all of 11 students. (hip hip hurray!) Tuesday we had a new white belt in our adult class. I just started our Little Dragons and Little Warriors classes last week, and I think we might have 3 new students sign-up tomorrow. I will be looking on the boards for ideas for the under 10 crowd. Please feel free to give advice if you have any ideas. :)
Nick and Sandra Butler
Redding Martial Arts