Hapkido Cane/Umbrella?

[Bill R]

I'm really happy to have found this site today, it's awesome.

I have recently fell in love with the Hapkido Cane, I train with it almost every day.

Does anyone know of an umbrella designed to be used in a similar fashion? Of course I have found umbrellas with wooden crook handles, but the handles are too small and they don't seem sturdy enough.

I do carry my cane when I travel, especially on airplanes. I think it would look more natural to carry an umbrella. I routinely hear "you don't look like a guy who should be carrying a cane". I usually smile and say "well, not really" and get a blank stare in return.

If you like weapons and have not tried any cane techniques, I urge you to give it a shot. Get expert instruction though, or you'll certainly bang yourself up!!!

BR

[Sochin]

Wow, I've been carrying my CaneMasrters cane since 1995, before I was 50, and no one has ever made a mention of it at all!

Hapkio cane was too much alike another 'art' which I didn't need tho a buddy is quite the teacher.

[Kumbajah]

All the umbrellas I've tried have a stability problem. They work but get bent to sh*t. Have you tried using a fold up umbrella (ie Tote) like a dan bong? Makes a passable alternative. As for planes - My belt is always equipped with a nice buckle.

Hapkido the art of gimme that thing over there and I'll make it you hurt you.

[howard]

All the umbrellas I've tried have a stability problem. They work but get bent to sh*t. Have you tried using a fold up umbrella (ie Tote) like a dan bong? Makes a passable alternative...
Yeah, I definitely agree. A lot of umbrellas won't even stand up to a good gust of wind. I can remember very well when the world trade center was still standing, I used to go thru the ground-level concourse of the south tower twice a day to take a train to and from work. Those towers channelled the wind like you can't imagine. Whenever it would rain, the plaza outside of the entrance to the tower looked like the world's biggest umbrella graveyard... dozens of them bent and broken, just laying on the ground. That's not a problem with a good wooden cane.

Nice suggestion about using a folding umbrella as a dan bong... many other things will also work nicely, like a rolled-up newspaper or magazine.

[DragonMind]

Wow, I've been carrying my CaneMasrters cane since 1995, before I was 50, and no one has ever made a mention of it at all!

Hapkio cane was too much alike another 'art' which I didn't need tho a buddy is quite the teacher.
I usually get some nice compliments on "Fang", my cane. Annoys my SO that at the airport they make her take off her heels to check for bombs but help carry my luggage and cane through for me :laugh:

I've also been playing recently with a mini-cane and FMA techniques. Gives tapi-tapi a whole new dimension!

[gr455h0pp3r]

I believe Diato Ryu teaches techniques whilst holding an unbrella.

[Michael Tomlinson]

I think you guys have hit on a new area of monetary success... If someone could design, build and sell an umbrella that was also a defense weapon that compared to the sturdiness of a good cane...well that is definately a market niche that could be exploited....I have never seen an umbrella that could be used like a cane...they are always too flimsy.....I would buy one in a heartbeat....
Michael Tomlinson

[DragonMind]

Unfortunately, I think we'd be the only ones buying them. Everyone else complains they're too heavy. :(

[Eliz]

I think you all are on to something.

I well remember the older umbrellas with the heavy wooden handles and the giant medal spoke coming from the top. I also remember my grandfather putting that umbrella to good use on a kid who tried to steal his hat while he was banking downtown. He knocked the kid flat with the heavy wooden handle, than put the spoke up to the kids neck and demanded his hat back.

[Jeff C.]

Ted, about 4-5 years ago I went through an airport with one of my CaneMasters canes, and a little old lady grabbed me by the arm to help me through the security checkpoint!

Don't you have your own cane business now?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Kumbajah]

You could probably make one out of reinforced graphite rods. Although it would make it a bit pricey. But for sh*ts and giggles - Reinforced graphite rod for shaft and stays, hickory heart handle, kevlar/goretex blend for material and a retractable stainless steel sharpened tip.

Just call me "Q" or maybe the penguin

Patent Pending :P

[Bill R]

I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one who likes the idea.

I have a buddy who can make anything. I'll see what he thinks about using a standard rattan cane and somehow mount an umbrella thing on it. If we come up with something, I'll send a few to people here, gratis, for 'field testing'.

Canemasters could probably make one, but would most likely be $200-$300, if not more!!

[Jeff C.]

I've actually talked to Mark (Shuey, the owner of Canemasters) about making stuff like that. The problem is not so much the materials used, but how you bind the different materials together. The weak point is ALWAYS where the different materials attach.

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Michael Tomlinson]

How about this..hickory for the cane..graphite and carbon fiber for the spokes,, titanium for all metal parts.. and kevlar with a gore tex cover for the actual rain material...bullet and rain resistant of course.... I'll take two..one in black and one in woodland camo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michael Tomlinson :wink2:

[Bill R]

I understand that it might be hard or impossible to make the 'perfect umbrella/cane' considering the weak points. Let's get realistic here. How many times will you have to make a full strike with the weapon?, maybe once in your life. My opinion, I dont care if the umbrella is destroyed in the process as long as the shaft holds up and does its job. I'll buy a new one.

Too many good/great ideas are not acted on because they are not perfect.

BR

[Jeff C.]

Bill, I can't say that I wholely disagree with you, but let me be the "devil's advocate" for a moment.

I own a gun for self-defense. I may only have to fire it once in my entire lifetime to save my life or that of my family. Is that the time I want to discover that the design is faulty?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Kumbajah]

I don't think that sticking unlike materials is insurmountable as indicated. I was watching "Modern Marvels" about glues. And the tensile strength of modern adhesives is stronger than the materials they are bonding. Guess you have to just use the right glue.

Big fan of liquid nails

[DragonMind]

Bill, I can't say that I wholely disagree with you, but let me be the "devil's advocate" for a moment.

I own a gun for self-defense. I may only have to fire it once in my entire lifetime to save my life or that of my family. Is that the time I want to discover that the design is faulty?

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu
I'm sure you'd agree, Jeff, that so long as the shaft did its job like a cane, the umbrella aspect is expendable. My problem with it is the umbrella part opening at an inopportune time.

If we wanted to carry Brian's idea to its logical conclusion, skip the blade and just put an umbrella mechanism on a shotgun... though there might be some pesky issues at the airport.

[riku]

--If we wanted to carry Brian's idea to its logical conclusion, skip the blade and just put an umbrella mechanism on a shotgun--
I guess very soon you'll re-invent the ricin-pellet umbrella which was used against Markov ;) - much more quiet than shot-gun, altough you have to be a bit more patient waiting the results.

With respect,
Riku Ylönen

[Michael Tomlinson]

Jeff,
Not to get off topic but you bring up a funny point. I shoot quite a bit and it always astounds me when I talk to someone who has or is in the process of buying the very cheapest firearm they can find....I'm a proponent of spending good money to get a good product when you really need quality. When the rubber hits the road you want the very best or close to it IMHO with something you know is gonna work when you need it to... two products that I never skimp on the money are firearms and condoms!!!!
Michael Tomlinson :laugh:

[DragonMind]

I guess very soon you'll re-invent the ricin-pellet umbrella which was used against Markov ;) - much more quiet than shot-gun, altough you have to be a bit more patient waiting the results.

With respect,
Riku Ylönen
Yeah, I'd thought about that, but it just lacks the same intimidation factor as staring down the barrel of a 12 gauge... :eek:

[Kumbajah]

I'm sure you'd agree, Jeff, that so long as the shaft did its job like a cane, the umbrella aspect is expendable. My problem with it is the umbrella part opening at an inopportune time.

If we wanted to carry Brian's idea to its logical conclusion, skip the blade and just put an umbrella mechanism on a shotgun... though there might be some pesky issues at the airport.

Now your cooking with gas :) Although I would rather a .22 that fires on impact of the tip. Will bounce around the body cavity or skull. A la zip gun. A shotgun is too messy. :P

[James O'Neill]

Forgive me for posting in the middle of a conversation here fellas but let me get this straight; we have a bullet proof kelvar, titanium reinforced "umbrellinator" that works like a 'bang stick' firing .22cal rounds upon contact...?

Dude, where can I get me one of THOSE?!?! :D :bandit:

And here I thought the sword umbrella was all the rage this year: http://www.atlantacutlery.com/webstore/browseproducts.asp?hidSearchCriteria=__C__1311&ActionSource=1311&hidGroupId=1300&hidCategoryId=1310&hidSubCategoryId=1311&ActionSource=1311

I think a concealed weapons permit would be needed for any of these ideas. And even then I don't think I'd want to try boarding a plane with one of them :eek:

[DragonMind]

I think a concealed weapons permit would be needed for any of these ideas. And even then I don't think I'd want to try boarding a plane with one of them :eek:
How on earth would you CONCEAL that thing?!?

There was a news report recently about the airline stripping a group of guys of their nail clippers, etc. Only problem was they all had weapons with full combat loads and they were ALLOWED those. It was a group of soldiers being deployed via commercial aircraft. Even the 1st Sgt had to sigh at the insanity of taking clippers away from a guy with an M-16 in his hands.

[Michael Tomlinson]

Barry writes:

<<There was a news report recently about the airline stripping a group of guys of their nail clippers, etc. Only problem was they all had weapons with full combat loads and they were ALLOWED those. It was a group of soldiers being deployed via commercial aircraft. Even the 1st Sgt had to sigh at the insanity of taking clippers away from a guy with an M-16 in his hands.>>

WOW, the power of stupidity never dies out does it.
Michael Tomlinson

[Jeff C.]

Jeff,
Not to get off topic but you bring up a funny point. I shoot quite a bit and it always astounds me when I talk to someone who has or is in the process of buying the very cheapest firearm they can find....I'm a proponent of spending good money to get a good product when you really need quality. When the rubber hits the road you want the very best or close to it IMHO with something you know is gonna work when you need it to... two products that I never skimp on the money are firearms and condoms!!!!
Michael Tomlinson :laugh:

Michael, you still have me hilariously laughing! Guns, canes, condoms, umbrellinator.....everything listed and discussed here is pretty macho, EXCEPT for the umbrella part.

Would anyone want some bullet-proof spandex to go with that umbrella?
;)

Jeff Cook
Wabujitsu

[Erik]

Anyone know some good cane technique websites, just for curiousity?

[Kumbajah]

Never one to miss an opportunity for self/ GM promotion - here are some Demo techniques. Some are prettied up for safety and/or impact. But you get the idea.

http://www.jinpalhapkidodc.com/images/movies/knife_attacks.mov

and one from down unda http://hapkido.netro.com.au/Mpegs/Cane1.mpg

[Kumbajah]

Arrg - we missed out - http://www.self-defense.info/umbrella1.html

[Bill R]

Thanks for the link Brian, that is exactly what I am looking for. I'm just not sure I want to spent $129+ for one right now. I'll check to see if they give discounts to MA schools.

BR

[AllanJGAnderson]

I'm waiting for a Batman/Penguin style umbrella that shoots bullets. Then I'll spend more than $7 on a cane or umbrella. I bought my cane from the goodwill store, it's sturdy solid good demensions too. The crook was narrow but that's fixed by boiling (after getting rid of the finish). As a 18 year-old I have just about no excuse to carry around a cane, but I still consider it to be the more practical weapon for personal protection since they can go just about anywhere.

[Alain]

Check out the pics at my site

http://www.burrese.com/Personal_Security_&_Self_Defense/Self_defense/unbreakable_umbrella.htm

The pictures are from my Hapkido Cane dvd shoot last year. I did a couple outside shots with the Unbreakable Umbrella as well as the cane. (All the inside instruction was with the cane though)

One picture is of Thomas Kurz who is more known for his excellent stretching book standing on one of the umbrellas. If you follow the links from my site you can see video clips of Kurz using the umbrella on a heavy bag.

These are the best umbrellas I have found for self-defense. They cost a bit, so does everything good these days.

[Charles Davis]

Greetings All
Their actually is a place that sells self defense umbrella's. http://www.real-self-defense.com/umbrella1.html. They look real nifty but a little rich for my Blood at $179.95. I had to ask myself, would I want to carry an umbrella all the time especially during the summmer?. I did also modify one of my Rattan Canes with an cheop umbrella mechanism. The result did not work well as a Cane and the umbrella part was too flimsy to work more then once. If you could make a decent Cane that had a workable replaceable umbrella mechanism, that might work. You would then have to ask, who would buy it other then other folks like us. :wink2:
Enthusists like us generally like gadgets. Sword Canes are great to look at "Cold Steel" used to make an awesome one. Shotgun Canes look great, but illegal etc. I think the most practical approach is to have a nice all wood Cane that looks decent. If you want to carry a back up Hand gun, that's your personal choice.
http://defensivecane.cdavisgroup.com
Charles E Davis

[Charles Davis]

Ooooops
I missed the umbreakable umbrella post on a previous message:cool:
Chuck out