View Full Version : Looking for resources.
A new assistant director has taken over the academy. He's a Shotkan stylins, Firearms Instructor and Senior Operator on the SWAT team. In essence he is pro realistic and consistent training.
He wants te revamp and revitalize the defensive tactics course at the academy.
He asked me do it and has informed me that he would like me to eventually take over the program.
So first order of business is you are all recruited to assist me. :)
Please provide me with resourse, online or otherwise in reference to LEO training.
Anything from knife, gun to psychological studies.
For example the knife lies thread has provided me with some insights.
So Robert, Rory, Jeff, Dennis, Cliff, Kit, Fletch, Barry you guys have been volunteered :D .So get to work fellas.
P.S. If there are any material you would like to email me, PM me and I'll be more than happy to give you my email address.
Strictly DT or firearms and DT?
Will you be training mostly new recruits/basic academy stuff of more advanced officers? SWAT?
For the Force on Force paradigm - remember this thread?
And this is for bacis LE recruits?
Sorry guys, I've should have been more specific.
Yes, I'm this is for basic LE recruits and for now DT.
Kit, that's exactly what I'm looking for except the links don't work.
One of the things we're looking to change is the length of the training. In the history of the academy, DT has only been allocated approximately 40-50 hrs, usually scheduled towards the end of the cycle. No we want it to run continously throughtout their 24 week training.
While I think the curriculum itself is ok, for the recruits, I'm also looking to go to different seminars and course on DT that may be out there. I believe I can convince the academy to pay for additional training under the guise of updating my and the academy's DT training to meet todays needs.
I'm not going to do all my research in front of the computor, you know. :D
I'll do my best Big Guy. I'm honored that you'd include a geek among the LEOs.
Remind me to introduce you to Mark Burton at the Camp in January. He's been a Fed LEO for years and regularly teaches at Glencoe and the academy in New Mexico. If there is an aspect of law enforcement training that he's not familiar with, I'll buy you dinner on Bourbon Street.
Good luck with the program.
Mark, Thank you. I look forward to it.
BTW. Th request is not limited to the people I named. That was semi-facetious on my part.
All suggestions are welcomed.
I assume you have looked into the portions of Army Combatives that may apply?
Gosh, Tony, what a great project you've been given!
I think you're starting on the right foot scheduling wise. They should go every week, twice a week minimum, during their academy time to ingrain whatever skills you can. Better than all in a few big blocks that they won't retain. In Washington State, the Academy also had after hours training open to anyone that wanted to participate.
Some things I would consider:
* Mindset; Train them to win, not to survive. See my other thread on this subject. I think a major part of training this is to get them working against people who fight back, and don't simply just go along with a pre-arranged drill. Some people have a very rude awakening in training like this - better they wake up at the academy than at 0-dark-30 on the street some night with a parolee trying to take them out.
* Firearms in conjunction with DT. A subject sorely lacking when you consider most "gunfights" occur at hand to hand combat distance. Many start as hand to hand and transition to firearms engagements.
Introducing this to the dinosaurs in the firearms and DT instructor groups may be an uphill slog, however. Because you have both martial arts and SWAT background it will give you more credibility here.
Check out www.shivworks.com for more on this. Southnarc's handgun DVD is a good place to start.
* Weapon retention. Standing and on the ground. Crucial, and another reason for bringing firearms and DT together.
They also need to practice it not just in pre-arranged drills but against active attackers free to move and change their tactics during the fight over the gun. This will show if their basic tactics work and are adaptable to a dynamic threat.
(I would also cover weapon retention - contact shooting and backup gun/knife access as well - all against resistance).
* Ground control. Both maintaining control on a subject who has been taken down, and being able to take control and reverse the situation if the officer ends up on the bottom. Again, train against active attackers - let the recruits take a guy down, THEN let the guy start to fight back and prevent them from controlling him. This should at least impress upon them the reality of controlling someone who does not want to be controlled.
These are the things that will save their lives. There is probably already a workable set of comealong, restraint holds and takedowns in place that will work against the compliant and semi-compliant folks. This needs attention, but in my opinion they should be working more on the life saving stuff. Most academy training puts it the other way around.
Just my $2.50
Here is a direct link for Armiger:
Other links of interest to get the juices flowing:
Excellent! That's exactly what I'm looking for. We're on the same wave lenght on several points.
1. We have been incoporating DT with firearms. (some of those old dinosaurs have retired)
2. Weapon retention from the ground is not being addressed. That will change.
3. Backup weapons is not being addressed, nor the ability to transtion from one to the other. That will also change.
3. Realistic resistant training is very limited. Right now we have 2 Redman suits which are grossly underused. I'm also going to see if I can convince them to invests in some HighGear.
Ok I got homework, thanks to Kit. Gotta go do some reading now.
I assume you have looked into the portions of Army Combatives that may apply?
And Marine Corps.
I like the idea of regular DT during an academy. Most folks you talk to that are in an academy, or have been through one, obviously have their minds focused on that part only during that part. If you are constantly bringing a recruit back to the mindset of defensive tactics and self preservation, he or she may actually stay in that mindset more in their career and could save their life.
Some other things to ponder:
* If some of these folks will be issued Tasers as part of standard gear, THAT is another weapon retention issue. It is also a back up, though.
* Some departments prohibit carrying back up guns. They should be carrying folders and/or fixed blades for survival needs if necessary - in places where they can get to them with the off hand. If the strong hand is protecting a weapon it won't be available to go to a backup.
* Long gun weapon retention - NEVER taught, though most departments deploy shotguns or patrol rifles in cars and people are using them to clear in confined spaces, where retention issues may occur.
High Gear is great if you have a little experience taking hits. I wouldn't put people who aren't used to impact in them. They are much more realistic than the Stay-Puft varieties.
Let me know if you need any volunteers for verbal woofing. I wouldn’t mind trying to shake them up verbally and see if the adrenal response kicks in. It worked pretty nicely for Phil! (Although I regret not having gear on during that “verbal only” exercise.)
I also wouldn’t mind throwing on the High Gear or Redman suites for a few good rounds.
Keep me in mind if you’re looking for someone to come in a few days and shake them up a bit. You know me, always looking to give and get a good lesson.
“Keep your belt tight and your mind open.”
Welcome to Budoseek.
Jason is one our black belts in our school, exceptional karateka and all around good guy.
Don't be afraid to jump in Jason.
Some random thoughts.
* Emphasize that DT should be a team effort rather than Lone Ranger minus Tonto. Try it with the trainees needing to take down the instructors, kinda like you do in the kids' classes. The process should also give instructors insight into which trainee is a team player, and which is not.
* Monitor safety. It's not just to reduce trainee injuries, but also because trainee injury rates may represent signs of future problems. I mean, if the guy gets medical excuses to get out of DT now, what do you expect to happen 10 years and 50 pounds from now?
* Flashlights. (Light works both ways.)
* Night vision devices if your department has them.
* Rolling with MACE, pepper spray, CS, and so on. This is probably best included during your riot training -- it's one thing to pick up the shield and baton and stomp around the field a bit, and another to have OPFOR throwing tomatoes and trying to wrestle you to the ground while the air is filled with gas and the instructors spray you with water to simulate the fire department's contribution to crowd control. Indeed, toward this end, you might consider a USMC Crucible style pre-graduation exercise, during which all kinds of stressful things happen throughout a couple very long days just before graduation.
* AAR everything. What did we do right? What did we do wrong? What will we do better next time?
Question: does DT typically cover the mobility restrictions inherent in wearing certain types of gear? I've seen all kinds of blocks and strikes advocated that simply won't work when body armor because of mechanical restrictions to the arms/shoulders, etc. When I do knife work, I'm very focused on body movement instead of limb movement to put me in a position to act.
Crap. I just typed half a page and deleted it.
Tony- all good advice. I would add:
Separate survival fighting from restrain fighting. The mindset, techniques and tactics are entirely different for counter assault than for semi-compliant cuffing. People get hurt when they use level 4 techniques in a level 5 situation.
Incorporate Use of Force training in every aspect of DT/HtH and Firearms training. As the rookies are learning a technique, they need to know when and where it applies. When they go into scenario training immediately after each scenario they need to explain to the instructors and other students the type and level of threat they were presented with, what their responses were and how those responses are justified under policy and law.
We are doing well with a principles based model. Instead of drilling students on one complicated six-step wrist lock it only takes an hour to teach them how all joint locks work, how to maximize the effect and give them time to experiment and play with them. Timelines are roughly similar for takedowns, striking, etc. Then we use a safe, free form drill like kajukenbo's "four-count-street" so they can try it live (not a joint lock drill, but a free fighting drill with the locks fresh in the rookies mind) then ramp it up with armor, less structure and more impact.
Anything else? Make sure they get a basic introduction to threat assessment and reading and using terrain. OC is slippery. And work carefully on the high percentage techniques that the smaller officer needs. A three hundred pound wrestler can make anything work. Your small officers, especially the women need to be well versed on the equalizers- brain stem shut downs, finger locks, weapons access at contact range- that kind of stuff.
(Good luck, Tony. I think they made a good choice.)
Congrats Tony! That is a great situation for you especially considering how much you have discussed how you would like to do things differently. I guess someone was listening, that'll teach you!
Seriously though, i'm sure you will do a great job with this HUGE responsibility. I wish everyone in your situation took it as seriously and soberly as you are...
Thanks everyone for your imputs and a special thanks for your confidence in me.
I just wished I was as confident. :o
Right now though the brain is shutting down for vacation. So I'll dwell on it more when I return.
Another thought. Besides teaching How-To, how about including some How-To-Get-Out-Of?
My reasoning is that if you know how to escape a technique, then both you and the other fellow get a whole lot better at applying it.
What you want to be very cognizant (and careful) of is stories such as this -- http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/062905dntextrooper.55c5551f.html . Trooper trainee Jimmy Ray Carty Jr ., Texas Department of Public Safety trainee, age 29, died on Friday, May 27, 2005, of subdural hematoma received during defensive tactics training at the academy. According to related stories, as many as 36 (of 1,500, 2.3%) of trainees in this particular program got concussions over the years, and at least one ended up in a wheelchair. See, for example, http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3246999.
But, in the event cases such as this cause management to get cold feet, make sure you remind them that if someone should die, they can always point the finger at the equipment manufacturer, same as the Department of Public Safety does in Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.