crossfit?

[Sgathak]

CrossFit is a modern name for very old training techniques... basically, do something new with your body everyday. 1 day you might be doing high rep squats, the next day doing calestenics, the next tossing kettlebells, the next day climbing a rope, the next day doing low rep military presses....... whatever.

Anyway, as I said, this isnt really anything new, just a new venue for the training type... but I figured Id toss it out see what the resident fitness gurus think.

Is this all around type training good? should training be more structured? Is there a benefit to constantly mixing it up or should you work with a certain training style for a while before moving on (For example, lift for 1 month, swim for 1 month, calistenics for 1 month, etc)

Anyway... blah blah blah... impressions on CrossFit?

[Erik]

Some of the guys from the Dave Camarillo BJJ group swear by Crossfit. One is an Air Force PJ and is inhumanly fit. The guys I know who are into this look like thin marathon runners - almost wimpy at first glance. But they are stronger than I am and I'm a beefy 210 pounds.

They seem to get very good results from this.

[novella]

well when weight training you are supposed to vary your routine often to keep your muscles from getting used to the repetitiveness. I guess this type would be beneficial. I live in a very farming enthused area. Let me tell you those guys dont lift weights but the odd work they do around the farm makes them just as big as any lifters and for some of them about twice as strong. Has anyone ever seen smallville...the guy who plays clark (tom welling) from what i know rarely does weight training. He sticks to very physical outdoor sports. And it hasn't hurt him any.

[D Owens]

I am not an expert, but I experimented with Crossfit's workout of the day for about 6 months. Prior to my experiment, I was mainly training using low rep power and olympic style movements for strength and doing intervals on the treadmill and oliptical machines for metabolic conditioning.

For me, it worked really well as an interval training protocol. My strength endurance increased, meaning I was able to perform more multiple high effort tasks (sprinting, rowing, lifting) with brief rest periods in between. Also, I got gassed less frequently in martial arts practice. I lost about 10 lbs (190 to 180) and my body fat dropped about 3% (15 to 12), while my diet remained relatively constant, and my muscle mass stayed about the same.

On the down side, I was constantly at the verge of overtraining. I had to be real careful, and realized that I sustained minor injuries once or twice because my body could not recover from the workouts. I noticed a decrease in limit strength. However, I knew that would happen, as I knew that was not training for strength gains.

Overall, I would recommend people check it out. Even if you do not adopt the WODs or the overall training protocol, there are some really good illustrations of some great whole body exercises. I really like using the couplet of thrusters (Front squat into a push press) and pull-ups.


Respectfully,

[ezzthetic]

I'm curious to know what Jason thinks of CrossFit?

[jwinch2]

I have looked at their stuff in the past Dadi. It is decent but nothing spectacular. My major problem with what I have seen them do is that they tend to use cookie cutter workouts and do the same thing for everyone. There is no magic workout that will work for everyone out there. That is why there is no substitute for someone with both an understanding of the science of how the body adapts to stimuli and the art of application to an individual.

Fitness and performance are both individual, which means that in oder to maximize training, exercise prescription needs to be individual as well...

Other than that, they are not that bad. Nothing to write home about but nothing for me to get my panties in a bunch over either...

[ezzthetic]

Thanks Jason, once my basic conditioning is done I think I'll try it out for three months and see where it takes me... then get more serious after next Christmas.

[Azato]

Some of the guys from the Dave Camarillo BJJ group swear by Crossfit. One is an Air Force PJ and is inhumanly fit. The guys I know who are into this look like thin marathon runners - almost wimpy at first glance. But they are stronger than I am and I'm a beefy 210 pounds.

They seem to get very good results from this.


I agree, I know some karate guys who stay on the stirct crossfit routine and they are nothing less than impressive. Personally, I dont follow it, but I will take some excirses from the routines. If you can stay on that crossfit routine, I guarntee it will make anybody tough.

[rgoad]

I am not an expert, but I experimented with Crossfit's workout of the day for about 6 months...

On the down side, I was constantly at the verge of overtraining. I had to be real careful, and realized that I sustained minor injuries once or twice because my body could not recover from the workouts. I noticed a decrease in limit strength. However, I knew that would happen, as I knew that was not training for strength gains...


This is cool because I stumbled across this recently and was thinking of giving it a go.

Dave, I looked the exercises over and they did not look like they would over train you unless you were trying to throw some serious iron. The exercises look like basic calesthenics and plyometrics, so you could get some benefit without using any weight. Is that about right? If you use weight, do you set the poundage yourself? Also, I have experienced exercise induced injuries from over training and the main causes were poor diet and improper rest (assuming I was moving correctly). Could this have been a problem?

I think I'm going to do these and keep ajournal to see what happens...

[jwinch2]

The exercises look like basic calesthenics and plyometrics, so you could get some benefit without using any weight. Is that about right?

Plyo's yes, other lifts no,

Yes on Plyometrics becuase they are not about generating either force or power but rather about learning how to minimize contact time and get off the ground quickly.

As for the rest, if you are not using enough resistance to force yourself to generate high levels of force, then you are not producing power which is the point. Power is the single most physiologically relevant variable in human movement, period.

[rgoad]

Thanks for the sanity check, Jason. After reading more, what you say makes sense. they don't SPECIFY the weight to use in most cases, or it is very light (e.g. 135 lbs) but it is IMPLIED the weight is significant because they have relatively low reps.

[Tang-Soo-Architect]

Could someone tell me if the crossfit idea can be applied to flexibility training?
Cheers.

[D Owens]

This is cool because I stumbled across this recently and was thinking of giving it a go.

Dave, I looked the exercises over and they did not look like they would over train you unless you were trying to throw some serious iron. The exercises look like basic calesthenics and plyometrics, so you could get some benefit without using any weight. Is that about right? If you use weight, do you set the poundage yourself? Also, I have experienced exercise induced injuries from over training and the main causes were poor diet and improper rest (assuming I was moving correctly). Could this have been a problem?

I think I'm going to do these and keep ajournal to see what happens...

Richard,

I have not reviewed anything put out by crossfit since abou June or July of last year, so I do not know if anything has changed. For my body, the high rep work on pull-ups and calithenics, coupled with the heavy weight pushed on the low rep exercises was too much.

Of course, at that time, I was practicing 3 hapkido sessions (2 hours) and 2 BJJ sessions (1 hour) a week. The crossfit training intensity/volume mix was too much for my body, while training in martial arts 5 times a week.

Since that time, I have been practicing RMAX materials, and it has a much greater benefit to my martial arts then any of my prior workout regemins. I am much more mobile then I have every been, and I can apply greater force while remaining relaxed which is extremely important for my hapkido.

Good luck with your search. I think your idea of keeping a journal is a great one. I have logged all my workouts since college, and it really helps me understand what works and does not work for me.

Respectfully,

[D Owens]

Richard,

I missed the edit window...

You asked about diet and rest, so I went back and reviewed my training logs. I was keeping a pretty clean 40/40/20 diet at the time. My calories came from 40% protein, 40% carbs (mostly complex) and 20% from fat. Also, I was sleeping 7-8 hours per day.

Those are pretty good for me.

Regards,

[rgoad]

David,

Sounds like you are getting the rest and food about right, although total calories can be a factor, too. Anyway, the WOD they publish along with your routine of VERY demanding martial arts would have worn anyone out. I am a big believer in rest and proper movement training to prevent injuries. I have made mistakes in heavy lifts that took months or even years to completely recover.

I have not been able to train properly due to work and travel, although I did quite a bit of simple cals and swimming last week while in California. The 30 minute swim was for 1500 meters and I was not breathing hard at all. I realize that is not a great distance, but you have not seem me swim!

[JiuJitsuRabbit]

I've found crossfit to be nothing short of amazing.

The execises are time based and resistance is usually against yourself. Meaning a 70 year old woman can do the exercise a 20 year old is and get the same type of results.

A big part of crossfit is the methodology. Perfect example is 100 pull ups listed in most work outs. It is not intended to be 100 pulls ups from a dead hang.

You do max from dead hang.

Then max from kipping/swining.

Then Negatives from jumping.

All this while keeping up your intensity.

My results have been outstanding and I only do 3 of them a week in addition to my BJJ.

[rgoad]

OK, only one week under the belt but I like it. Great overa ll body workout but more importantly minimum equipment and time required. I can see where I need to be careful with how it work in with my regular workouts, as it is pretty tough at this point. Also, my body is still adjusting to new workout after a short halt for torn ACL.

Since it is a prtial tear I am taking it easy. The doc gave me the green light and I am incorporating his exercises into the workout. My leg muscles are really sore, but that was from wearing the wrong shoes for the run.

I am adapting the exercises to my gym and my over all (Lack) of fitness. I tend to recover quickly from muscle fatigue, so I am ready for the coming week.

Excelsior!

[Antares33]

Actually sounds like a good plan to me. I've been looking for something to inject a little variety into my workouts.

Regarding what Adam just posted, is that kind of information available free on the website, or do I have to buy something to learn those little nuggets of information?

[JiuJitsuRabbit]

Actually sounds like a good plan to me. I've been looking for something to inject a little variety into my workouts.

Regarding what Adam just posted, is that kind of information available free on the website, or do I have to buy something to learn those little nuggets of information?

Most of the stuff I stated are is in the faq on http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/faq.html.

Its all about intensity. Honestly, after doing a crossfit session I don't have the desire to work out any harder. :laugh:

[The Munster]

I'm somewhat new to the Crossfit workouts also. First the wife and I dabbled, after being sick of just lifting and running. Now, for about 2 weeks we have been following the WOD exactly.

If you read the FAQ section, which is huge, you'll see that they do address the questions of how to adjust weights and reps for different strength and fitness levels and what exercises can be used as substitutions if you don't have certain equipment or can't do given movements.

Some people aren't impressed with it but thousands swear by it. I'm one of them. I've been in great condition and really strong all my life but this stuff is really testing me.

My wife and I are both going out to CA in July to a Crossfit Certification seminar and will be putting together group classes and individual sessions shortly thereafter. If anyone is interested in checking it out, we are in the NW Houston area (TX).

My best recommendation to anyone interested in giving it a shot is to read over the FAQ section on their site and watch all the exercise videos. Start with 2-4 WOD's per week in addition to your MA training. See how you feel, for some that may be to much and for others, it may not be enough.

Personally, we train in MA 2-4 times per week and have been following the 3-on, 1-off WOD protocol for 2 weeks now and aren't having any overtraining problems. But, our diet/nutrition is sound and are getting enough sleep at night.

Matt

[tgace334]

Not to resurrect a dead thread but I was leading another thread off-course on this topic....

While I haven't been doing the workout of the day as prescribed, I have been adapting/substituting/scaling their workouts and have been impressed with the results. Most critics of the system say that its too "general", but from a "what I'm doing it for" standpoint, thats exactly why I like it. From a LE or military standpoint Id rather be able to do a LOT of different physical tasks well than a few of them fantastic. For example Id like to be able to run fast enough to keep up with a BG, jump a few fences and still be able to wrestle a suspect at the end. It would be bad to be a great sprinter but then not be able to take a 110lb suspect into custody at the end. Or be a powerhouse that cant keep up with someone in a foot chase. When I was at Quantico for the FBINA the feds, including the HRT were doing crossfit style workouts. There is also a number of SpecOps types who are doing it for the same reasons I stated above.

[jwinch2]

The other thing you could to Thomas is to take a look at your own work-rest ratios while on the job and train yourself accordingly. If you look at last weeks Crossfit workouts of the day, they have a day where you are running 15 km. I would suggest that is far more then you are ever likely to have to run on your job.

If you look back at your career and a few other officers in your department who have been there and done that, you could start to get a pretty good idea of what is the furthest you have ever had to run, what is the longest you have ever had to wrestle with a suspect, etc... From there, you can give yourself some cushion by increasing your times a little while and start targeting your training directly to your needs, or find someone to help you do so, rather than doing someone else's random workout.

If fitness does not take into consideration individual needs than it is missing the mark and the whole point. I do not like cookie cutter workouts for that reason. You need a workout designed for you. Not one designed for everyone.

The NSCA has a tactical strength and conditioning program right now that is starting to crank out some information. You may want to consider taking a look at that and see what you think. Perhaps there is a way to incorporate some of what you enjoy about Crossfit with the variety of training and complex exercises into something that is more closely related to the types of performances you are likely to have to do... The best of both worlds so to speak...

[tgace334]

Well. Thats sort of what I'm doing now. I dont have the equipment or training to do many of their O-lift workouts,and am not enough of a kool-aid drinker to take their cert courses or pay for their gym. What I did is record a number of the workouts I can do into a notebook and replace WOD's I cant do with ones I can. I didn't do the 15K. I did do their deadlift/ring dip/box jump 21/15/9 for time workout.

Another workout that has some good crossover is the 3 cycles of run 800m, 21 kettlebell swings an 12 chins.

The FBI HRT was big on sandbag drills, tire flipping, sled dragging, 440 sprints, chins, sledgehammer on tire swings, kettlebells etc. And they did conventional weight training and distance running as well.

Lunges...weighted and unweighted and planks were popular as well.

[jwinch2]

Sounds like fun...

[tgace334]

Now Im not politically invested in exercise routines or philosophy..no offense but i find the concept a bit funny...but then again Im not invested in the topic area. I suppose people probably think its stupid how Ive debated martial arts politics with people.

But on the issue. It looks like some Crossfitters like Mark Rippetoe of "Starting Strength" fame have made a political issue out of resigining his CSCS certification:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/RippetoeCSCSResignation.pdf

Now I dont really even know what a CSCS is exactly or why Rippetoes philosophy is counter to CSCS. But it appears that politics and conflicts of philosophy crop up in every realm.

[jwinch2]

Yes they do Thomas. Unfortunately.