How young is to young?

[TIRAGION]

At what age would you feel comfortable in starting your kids in MA?
Also would you feel more comfortable starting your child in grappling or striking art? And of course why?

Thanks.

[Jason T Gatts]

My oldest child is 3 and she has already begun her training with me, but I would not feel comfortable enrolling her in a martial arts school until she is probably at least 5. Until that time I doubt that she will have the attention span or the necessary understanding of respect and courtesy that will be expected of her in a traditional school. I began my training when I was 6 (in a traditional Shotokan Dojo) and I feel that this was a good age for me. As for the rest of your question I always recomend that new students begin with a striking art. It makes sense (to me) to learn to fight from an outside range and then learn what to do if someone manages to get inside. I would especially recommend this for young children because most grappling arts practice joint manipulation and pressure point techniques that a developing adolescent body may not be ready for. I hope that you find this helpful.

[Eliz]

8 is a good age to start unless it is a program specifically geared toward younger people (ex. "kids Kick").

My own kids were 5 and 6 but they weren't with the rest of the class. I would bring them in early and let them have some fun doing different summersaults, kicks, punches, basic etiquette, etc. Since there was no kids program at that particular school, I more or less made one up for them.

I really don't think kids under 8 should be in structured MA's programs. The school I teach in now does allow kids as young as 5. Luckily, there are no 5 year olds that I know of, only a few 6 year olds, and loads of 7 and up practitioners. The difference between the 7 year olds and 8 year olds is like night and day.

Parents rightfully want to start their children when they are "young." Remember, 8 years old is YOUNG considering most MA's have no age maximums. You can participate well into your senior years.

Just my opinion.

[twrekx]

I find around 5 is good but it is also based on the child, some are mature enough to handle being in a MA class and some can not. I have never taught a child only class as I find the kids learn the proper etiquette faster in a class mixed with adults, plus I have found most of the adults have a blast holding pads and even sparring with the little ones. An added bonus to this way is if the parents are in the class they help to control the child by just being there or giving them " the look" :wink2:

As for my own son I have already began his training at 1 1/2 years old. I have him doing simple front kick and simple punch with kia's on balloons and balls.

[De_Franza]

It does depend on the individual child, though I'm inclined to say older is better, 8 or 9, maybe even 10. I've seen kids in our school who really make a noticable change and maturation when hitting the age of about 10 or 11, and I'm inclined to be curmudgenly and old school and say that the silly stuff very little kids do is almost totally a waste of time for everyone involved. But ask me again after I have a kid. :D

Also I'd say grappling may not be a good idea as the young child is still growing and strong joint manipulations may damage the growth plates of the bones, which can be a serious problem. In a striking art they can train without partners until they have some skills and start doing one step drills or other partner forms. In a grappling art, they pretty much must start working with a partner immediately (to my understanding) and my concern is that they would not have the control and skill to not be injurious to each other. Then again, little kids are pretty tough and not strong and massive enough to do serious harm.

Take my advice in perspective, I'm a karate man, and the first schools I trained in didn't accept anyone younger than college age.

[Gene Williams]

My standing rule was no one under 12 years old. I made a few exceptions (very few) and took one as young as 8, but he had exceptional self-discipline for one so young. I teach a traditional art in a traditional manner. I don't have time to baby sit, and I will not tailor my dojo to children's needs. I did not allow my own children to train until they were 12. If they can come to class, stay focused for 2 hours, and follow instructions and learn some manners, they last. If not, I tell their parents to take them down to the ATA school where they have "Little Ninjas" programs and drink machines in the dojo. :bow:

[Andrew Green]

A drink machine in the dojo is a good idea, very convienient for everyone (always having a powerade or bottle water available is nice) plus it brings in some money for the school, not a lot but every bit helps.

Anyways, back to the question:

It all depends on what you plan on teaching them. Kids will start wrestling naturally at a very young age, in all animals. Guiding them in that can begin very young, preferably one on one. And yes, it is "play", and that is how they learn. If you mean a organized traditional class where the idea of "play" is frowned upon with lots of repetition and formality, then not as young... In fact, I think I hope to always be too young to prefer that :D

[Gene Williams]

A drink machine in the dojo is a good idea, very convienient for everyone (always having a powerade or bottle water available is nice) plus it brings in some money for the school, not a lot but every bit helps.

Anyways, back to the question:

It all depends on what you plan on teaching them. Kids will start wrestling naturally at a very young age, in all animals. Guiding them in that can begin very young, preferably one on one. And yes, it is "play", and that is how they learn. If you mean a organized traditional class where the idea of "play" is frowned upon with lots of repetition and formality, then not as young... In fact, I think I hope to always be too young to prefer that :D

You will always be too young to prefer that Andrew. That is why you put little flipping penguins in your avatar.

[Eliz]

...plus I have found most of the adults have a blast holding pads and even sparring with the little ones. An added bonus to this way is if the parents are in the class they help to control the child by just being there or giving them " the look" :wink2:

I respect your opinion, but I do not share it. I teach kids. When I train, there better be NO kids in that class under the age of 16. That is my time and I don't want to deal with little kids. I am a mother, an instructor and a wife - I think I've earned a little time to just be me. I imagine most of the adults feel that way as the class is always packed.

We have seperate classes for the kids. It's the same traditional instruction and the same curriculum as the adults follow. The difference is the adults learn faster and they go at a much harder pace. They [the adults] are more interested in the deeper meaning and history of what it is we spend so much time practicing. Kids just draw a blank on a lot of that.

Answer? Seperate classes.

As for Gene's comment on little tyke classes. Agreed. Most of the ones I've seen aren't geared to imitate traditional instruction. It's just a fun way for the tykes to get out on the mats and have some fun. I think it's kind of like a MA's gymboree/tumbling kind of thing. So long as instructors aren't handing out camo belts :up: (or any belts for that matter), I think it's fine. When they actually start promoting the little diaper clads, thats where I start my hissy fits.

[yukwon]

At my school we have age specific programs for 4 - 6 yr. olds. Our regular program starts at 7, this curriculum is focused on striking but we do teach joint locks and throws.

[wingchundo.girl]

Too young is definitely three years old. I started a class for just 3-5 years old. Some three year olds were awesome. These were the children who had even temperment and were fairly calm, so they were a little easier to handle.

But most of the three year olds were so fascinated with every thing and every one in the building that they were never really "there." They would gravitate to anything that caught their eye. Especially a mirror. And if you can't get them to look you in the eye, their too young.

Also there's the language barrier. You need to learn a whole new way of explaining things, at their level. I realized after a while that some of them didn't know what I meant by "look down at your knees." What are knees?

Another realization came, when I realized that 3-5 yr olds take a lot more time to process information. I patiently wait for them to actually "hear" or repeat a phrase several times in a row before they would react to the information.

Now I take only 4-6 years old in this class. Art of distraction, and the art of excitement and adventure can keep this group together, which means it can be exhausting for you. But they are like sponges, I no longer underestimate them.

I look at this class as a way to help children with balance, hand eye coordination, getting them to use the right side as good as the left, learning to listen to directions, cooperation, and focus.

Besides the various coordination exerices and games, they learn to front kick, side and back kick. They are learning to scissors kick. They can learn mount and a simple mount escape. They can learn to punch and do all of our blocking drills. They can memorize creeds, and concepts.

By the time they become a green stripe (stripe system on their white belt), they are about a 1-2 years older and ready to enter the regular class.

We also help kids who are starved for approval and acceptance even at this early stage. Martial arts help build self esteem, discipline, and confidence and if you can introduce it this early, it's great.

It's a lot of work, definitely need a high student/teacher ratio of five to one. I figure that in any one class could have 10-12 with two instructors in the room. But I have to say, there is definitely an increase in our area for classes for this age group. I started with just two students and slowly built it up until I was ready to take on more. Word of mouth has brought in 7 more this past two months.

Liz Ambrose

[Andrew Green]

You will always be too young to prefer that Andrew. That is why you put little flipping penguins in your avatar.

Thank you, and hopefully I always will ;)

But it seems appropriate on a internet martial arts forum doesn't it?

Not quite Tux, but close enough for me, and I can turn it into a ninja. (Previous ninja penguins where Tux, but minus the flip)

But you are right, it is time to grow up a little. So how's this?

[Gene Williams]

:D Reminds me of my college physics professor.

[Shinzon]

It all depends on the situation, I think starting a child out at an early age is a good thing. Now that doesn't mean that it has to be physical with strikes and grappling, but in teaching them discipline and honor. If you can teach a child great discipline at a young age, it will most likely prove to be a valuable asset for them when they start doing some real physical training. By teaching them first to use their heads and feelings before actually teaching them how to use a punch or a kick!

[wab25]

7 is the official age for our school, to start the kids class. A few exceptions have been made, but very few. The kids do very similar stuff to what the adults do. However, the kids focus more on falling and throws. They do not learn joint manipulations, except under very controlled circumstances.

They do get belts, but the belts are basically an expansion of the adult belt rankings. Adult ranks go white, blue, green, brown (3 degrees), black. Kids go white, advanced white, yellow, advanced yellow, orange, advanced orange, purple, advanced purple. At advanced purple, when the student is big enough and mature enough, he will be invited to join the adult class, where the adult instructor will eventually promote him to green, when he is ready for it in the adult class. So basically, the kids get the first two ranks, but they are subdivided a lot.

I want my child to start with a grappling MA around 7. However, I will inspect the school and make sure joint locks and pressure points are not used in regular classes. The reason I want him in a grappling art is because I want him to learn to fall. It sounds harsh, but kids fall a lot while growing up. Hopefully, if he learns to fall early enough, he will have fewer injuries. I broke my arm in jr high do to falling improperly. I had to have it pinned, unpinned, and go through 8-9 months of therapy to recover the use of my right arm, which still is not 100%. Had I learned to fall correctly at a young age, I would not have had this problem. If you can learn to take a bunch of judo throws, the other falls you take should not cause you much problem at all.

[AndrewSimonsen]

My kid is going to start wrestling at probably four or five. In youth wrestling programs I have seen kids as young as three. It may not seem like they are learning much but if you start wrestling that early you will be beast when you are older. Other benefits of wrestling is the awesome conditioning, and the fact that it has no belt ranks. Yes I do consider that to be a plus. Wrestling is also something that is almost always cheap, some schools even teach it for free.

[jjaje]

Wrestling at 3, I wouldn't have thought it possible. There is plenty of time to turn your future children into a "beast", that you don't have to start before they are even in preschool.

It's actually pretty rare that the sport a kid starts when they are 5 is the same sport they are in when they are 10 (just look at how the numbers of soccor players goes down as age goes up).

Anyways, to each his own.

[AndrewSimonsen]

I started young, I have a cousin who was the national champion for 72 pounds, really it is no different than chess when you are looking at the numbers for the age groups. Wrestling and chess both have fairly low numbers that peak at about the high school point. Also at that age it is less so about competing and more about just building a foundation that can be used when you are older. Helping to give you proper balance and coordination along with basic skill sets like building sprawling as a reflex. Just look at wrestling programs in Iowa or Penn, the two states that dominate at wrestling. They start em young.

[AndrewSimonsen]

On the other hand though I wouldn't feel comfortable starting a kid that age off with a striking art.

[Aikido_Girl918]

as a teen in the martial arts, and an assistant teacher, i have seen many small children come and go and a few that, in my opinion have made it further than they should have. and i believe that the absolute youngest age you should start a child in martial arts is 7. i have seen a range of ages come and go, and i would say start no younger than 7 no older than 11 for kids classes

[outinthecountry]

I started at just barely six, and in two months I actually tested for a full yellow belt. Our school doesn't generally separate adults and children. If a child is going to be in the class, they have to be able to sit still and pay attention or they will be doing pushups for a long, long time. The rule is, we don't allow children who aren't in school to be in class. We have even asked the parents of kids as old as 10 or 11 who had problems paying attention to have them take some time off and come back later when they were better prepared to handle a class.

[Kevin]

When I took Karate at a school that I considered a lot less serious than my current one from when I was 5 until when I was 10, they had options for an all kids class, an all adults class, and a mixed ages class. This let those who wanted to be with other adults do so without distraction and those who wished to interact with kids (particularly their own) do so. I don't know if any of you find this practical for your personal situation. Just a thought.

They had us sparring at six, and to my knowlage no one got hurt. Even so, I'm certain the concern is valid. Besides, at that age the discipline and endurance for sparring wasn't really developed, at least in the classes I attended.

[dojo]

My ideal would be not to teach anyone under 12-13 years. But I don't know how I'll change my mind in the years to come, so I cannot be too serious in this statement.

As for my kids .. I don't know IF i would train them in MA. Should they be interested, then yes, if not .. they don't have to follow my own steps.

[poetic misjustice]

i started at 4 and i think that was perfect for me, i'm one of the youngest in my class and yet i'm now one of the most experience, i was learning multiple martial arts at 5

[skurk]

I started when I was 5 or so but it was my father instructing me and not in a class setting.My lessons were short at each time about 30 mintues.When I was younger and I practiced what little I knew at the time cause I had ADD problems But like most kids they just want to play and have fun. I think 7 or 8 would be a good age to start when they can focus more.

I highly recomend wrestling for kids.Kids wrestle alot anyway with their fathers and friends and it would push their strengths on something that they naturaly do for fun.Wrestling also teachs practical self defence and wrestling is great conditioning espically if a child has weight problems and other eating issues.This is coming from my own experience.

[bvermillion]

At the tkd school I taught at kids were allowed to start at pretty much any age. I don't think age is so much a factor as maturity. I have taught 4yr olds who learned excellently, but had 10yr olds who just weren't mature enough to take it seriously.

[X_plosion]

My instructor sets the minimum age requirement at 7. He says he's found through experience that this is where the majority of children who've studied under him, start to be receptive to a disciplined class methodology.

[gr455h0pp3r]

exactly, i think it depends on how receptive the child is to a diciplined regimen and his/her level of maturity. Thats how I will base my childs entry to MA

[TKDGURL]

I just started my 3 yr old daughter in TKD. She has the maturity level of a 5 yr old. It is just a class that teaches "Strangfer Danger" and really doesn't focus on any "real" moves. If the child stays in the little eagle program for the entire length starting at age 4 ending at age 7 they will come out of the program and be able to test for their yellow stripe in the kids classes.

[Karen Session]

Nothing worse than being in a class with little brats. Sorry, but it is true.

[Shinji]

My TKD school will start kids at 5 if they make it through a few classes OK. My Thai boxing school would start them at 10.
Some of my previous schools didn't teach anyone under 16. Honestly it was nice, but now that I'm older I see the benefit of having the kids around for some of the open classes. I think it really teaches them a lot about confidence and respect, and the fact that respect is a two way street.

[Yang Wei Xin]

my sihings son learned the first row of the northern shaolin set cung li chuan before he was even two. as long as you don't start the body conditioning until there bones have a chance to settle and harden you should be fine. typically age 12 or older, this is the same time period in which it is safe to begin weight training, prior to that the bones are soft, and weight training and body hardening could cause serious problems. nothing wrong with teaching kids as long as you teach them the correct morals behind its usage.

[Jared Sutton]

My standing rule was no one under 12 years old. I made a few exceptions (very few) and took one as young as 8, but he had exceptional self-discipline for one so young. I teach a traditional art in a traditional manner. I don't have time to baby sit, and I will not tailor my dojo to children's needs. I did not allow my own children to train until they were 12. If they can come to class, stay focused for 2 hours, and follow instructions and learn some manners, they last. If not, I tell their parents to take them down to the ATA school where they have "Little Ninjas" programs and drink machines in the dojo. :bow:

I agree with Gene's view, though I may have felt different if I hadn't started at 12 myself. :D


I don't have time to baby sit, and I will not tailor my dojo to children's needs.

I'm going to put this on the front door when I start my own dojang one day. I'll send you a check for every brat and soccer mom it turns away, Gene. :laugh:

Glad to see you're back, Gene. The troll-kicking and BS-beating just wasn't the same without you.

[phule1970]

As long as the kids classes are setup so that similiar aged kids are togethor that they can learn a lot. I started my son in TKD at 5 1/2 and I have seen some very positive results. He only trains with other 5-6 year olds and has an instructor who is very good with kids. IMHO it is always about the school that the style and I think think this is very true with kids. At my Karate Dojo they will have 25-30 kids and they are easily distracted. At my Tae Kwan Do Dojang the classes are limited to 10 at most. Much better!!!

[jailess]

as long as you don't start the body conditioning until there bones have a chance to settle and harden you should be fine.
typically age 12 or older, this is the same time period in which it is safe to begin weight training, prior to that the bones are soft, and weight training and body hardening could cause serious problems.
correct me if my knowledge is out-of-date, but the bones and joints continue to grow and ossify up until the end of puberty (male 16, female 14). I've always been led to believe that before these ages, weight training was to be avoided as the joints are not fully developed. I was told that exercises using your own weight (pressups, situps, etc.) were the thing to do.

Am I misled?

[stephenk]

21....maybe 18...

[seidogirl]

correct me if my knowledge is out-of-date, but the bones and joints continue to grow and ossify up until the end of puberty (male 16, female 14). I've always been led to believe that before these ages, weight training was to be avoided as the joints are not fully developed. I was told that exercises using your own weight (pressups, situps, etc.) were the thing to do.

Am I misled?


This is a good question and I've been wondering the same thing. At my school, adults and kids are in separate classes and little kids (ages 3-1/2 to 6) are in a separate class from the older kids. One night a week though we have a combined class for adults and kids of all ages and the little ones do pushups and situps along with the rest of us. I was wondering if that's healthy so I hope someone can let us know.

[Aikido_Girl918]

Seidogirl and jailless, you should pm Jason Winchester with this question. He really seems to know what he's talking about here. Let me know the answer.

[Bobby]

I wish I had realised the potential of martial when I was younger I'd be a black belt at jujitsu now. :)

[Yang Wei Xin]

correct me if my knowledge is out-of-date, but the bones and joints continue to grow and ossify up until the end of puberty (male 16, female 14). I've always been led to believe that before these ages, weight training was to be avoided as the joints are not fully developed. I was told that exercises using your own weight (pressups, situps, etc.) were the thing to do.

Am I misled?

I don't know the correct medical answer unfortunately, but 12 was when they allowed you to do weight lifting for wrestling and baseball and other such sports at my school.

12 is also when i started doing shin and forearm conditioning for Muay Thai, never caused me any problems later on.

[TaeKenJu]

I think that this is a hard one. I started training as soon as i was able to walk. I've seen alot of youngsters in the time that i have been training, and some grasp it and some dont. the youngest i have seen so far is about two years of age, and that little girl studied for about a good three years until her mother pulled her out of the classes. to me it was kinda of a bummer, because she made good progress. I think the age that a child begins studying martial arts at depends.

[karatekitty]

I am currently teaching 3 to 4 years. No not exactly MA. But basic focus training, listening skills, patience and respect. Which is very valuable at this age. I have had 8 years come in and felt to need to duct tape them to thier spot on the mat. I thought to myself, if they had some sorta listening training prior it would have been great.!

[DragonMind]

Christine, I have one problem with your signature. That hoary old adage is extremely disrespectful of teachers. Teaching someone else to do is harder than doing it yourself.

[Eliz]

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
I will make a great teacher

While I certainly can appreciate humor - and I DO like the intended humor - I have to admit I noticed your sig too. :eek: Teaching brings about a whole new level of learning. It is no longer sufficient to just "do."

[AllanJGAnderson]

I like the signature, if it's anything to anybody. But I see it as humor, not disrespect. One could be offended by my signature, if they are a JSA practioner, but most people get that it's just a jest, a joke, a well meaning shot at entertainment.

[saluteme54]

If i had kids i think it would be cool to get them in it as soon as they are able to walk and comprehend the lessons and memorize them. It would make them in shape when they got older plus they would be more disciplined. I am in BJJ and when i have kids i plan on getting them into a form of MA such as BJJ or MMA ASAP.

[Mekugi]

I am currently teaching 3 to 4 years. No not exactly MA. But basic focus training, listening skills, patience and respect. Which is very valuable at this age. I have had 8 years come in and felt to need to duct tape them to thier spot on the mat. I thought to myself, if they had some sorta listening training prior it would have been great.!

Hi Christine!

I work with kids too...I'm and English teacher and I specialize in early childhood language development from ages 0-5; I teach all ages as well, but I don't enjoy it as much as the toddlers and wee ones. I certainly know how you feel here, as it certainly seems that the little sprouts aren't picking up a lot and simply running around. I use Total Physical Response [TPR] in my teaching, and I have to tell you that it works VERY WELL. I use TPR in all age groups, in different ways and children react differently to the types of stimuli that you give them (depending especially on their personality type) but with "hyperactivity" (esh. Granny called it "bein' naughty") it augments their ability to pick things up. For 6-9 year olds I find that the hyper ones react very well to TPR methods as it keeps them active and interested.

I've started to use it with my daughter in more than just teaching language. I have her doing small chores, brushing her teeth and I am going to see if it works for potty training.

Essentially, what you do is connect an action with behavior. For example, when I was little and our teachers wanted us to be quiet, they would make the "V" sign with their fingers. This meant that "the wolf could hear you, and you need to be silent." They would stand up with the "V" sign in a noisy room and it went silent. Looking back at it now I understand what it was they were doing. They associated a simple action with a desired behavior in a way that we all could understand quickly.
(http://www.tpr-world.com/)

If you dig around on the internet, you can find oodles about it and how some people are using it!

Truly,

[karatekitty]

I guess it depend on how you decipher the saying. I am learning my art, I can watch the kids do thier kata's help them perfect it, first because I can see some the same mistakes I used to make, I am not as young as I was, therefore I can not do that same things, but because I am older, wiser and have a keen eye, I can help teach.

So those who can, do............ the 18 year old that can do a great kata because his legs are strong, or the 20 year old girl who can throw a 2 point head kick without worrying about a injured ankle can.. and does ..therefor.. DO

Then there is the 41 year old that can get out a kata, but the pivot is not strong anymore because of a damage knee, or ankle or whatever. But yet she can see the 18 not turn his leg in a proper stance or not bring back a ready arm high enough.

NOTE..I will make a great teacher. is the last line. I get told ..over 35 you don't have to do a jumping spin kick, okay, but why not try it, learning the details and dynamics of it and then help the person that is trying to perfect it. Sometimes, not being able to perfect something physically ..makes you a better teacher, because you have study the dynamics of it in your efforts in trying it. I have to break it down.. dissect it.. do it slow repeatedly over and over, until I actually can do it. Do I do well, probably not, but if I had to describe it, step by step..and walk someone through it.. BUT YOUR BOTTOM dollar I can.



However if you wish I should change ..I will ..just email me

[karatekitty]

Thank you ..

[karatekitty]

I like the signature, if it's anything to anybody. But I see it as humor, not disrespect. One could be offended by my signature, if they are a JSA practioner, but most people get that it's just a jest, a joke, a well meaning shot at entertainment.


Thank you, I appreciate the fact you don't see it as disrespect. I had a chance to talk to an older Master, really old. He is great teacher, but no longer can do a few things. Do that make him less? NOPE ..it makes him a great teacher..
:karate: