Boxing in TKD

[AndrewSimonsen]

One thing that my school is starting to do more is have sparring nights where we box instead of TKD sparring, another thing that we actually do fairly often is kickbox. Do any of the places where you all train try to do something simular? Or to what extent do you train hands?

[hizaguchi]

Sadly, my school never really trained hands much. Our sparring was (loosely) based on the WTF ruleset, so punches were mainly used for their psychological effects... that is, they freak some people out.

But we did have a guy with a 2nd Dan in Goju Ryu. He taught some of us upper ranks a few hard lessons on punching, so everything I know about hand work came from him.

[moogong]

I train my hands equally if not more than my legs. I know that sounds weird from a tkd stylist but I do not believe for a second that tkd was designed to be nothing but kicks. I feel the kicks are there to set up the hands and vice versa.
I do teach boxing strikes to my students but not during class time. I use a set of hand mitts to go over boxing combos with those who are eager to learn it. The instructor that teaches me kickboxing really opened my eyes to the effectiveness (and simplicity) of the art. I think every martial artist should set aside some time to practice or familiarize themselves with boxing.

[Black Fox]

TKD doing boxing on some nights instead of TKD sparring?
Also using an occasional Kick-Boxing style/format?

This can function very well.

You should achieve a well rounded base for general fighting and striking - useful in most engagements. This refers to anything from street-fighting/self-defense to competitions (point or not) even if punches to the head promoted by the venue entered set on a list of 'against the rules/conduct' - your hand coordination in defense vs. high-kicks and strategic 'cheap-shots' just to 'shake you up' will get much faster.

I can say this does not represent foolish mixing of styles on the teacher’s part. The instructor who does a practical assessment of the art he/she uses and what it can provide seems far more responsible to his students, himself, his chosen style, and his community than one more concerned merely with repeating what passed before with no reference to modern needs.

The wrestling you did will also serve well if your teacher happens to also carry the common addition of Hapkido many TKD schools tend get into the curriculum out of there common origin and for virtue of added effectiveness for self-defense.

But...

A full-on (fully committed into the depths of his soul for combat) TKD practitioner with only a limited selection of 'punching' experiences to draw from, but, who develops powerful kicks and go's through some high-grade fighting experience carries the potential to never need to 'punch' his opponent - he may never need to use grab.

The fight starts - then it gets over. The guy does not get up.

In this case the 'experience' and training of the other guy matters little.

Perfect timing and one perfect technique will serve you far better than 10 ways of fighting poorly managed. The great fighter using this method can take even fighters of great experience from different backgrounds. Who acts first and what do you 'know' about the opponents initial actions?

More ways of fighting under varied conditions yields an adaptability that pays off only if the fundamentals of fighting get digested by the artist. Then you may gain the very real opportunity to apply this 'unknown' approach to an artist without the experience.

Both approaches use the same fundimental to combat and it ain't selection of technique.

It boils down not to just method of fighting – but to the actual fight the artist possess within himself and what he knows beyond mere technique. Timing and intent come to prominence for the fighter in terms of vital aspects of understanding.

Most fighters entering conflict reveal timing and general intent that one must observe and apprehend to overtake the opponent. The rest comes down to technique and placement and the fun use of superior developed abilities – this defines the superficial of ‘what happened’ that most people report ‘seeing’.

If you get into a fight for the wrong reason (poor or shortsighted intent) the man/woman (artist) with superior observation, timing, and intent will win – with one well-applied technique.

Techniques will play out and abilities become more important only when people attempt to ‘skip’ this phase. Fights in a ring attempt to force something they cannot. Some street fighters attempt to 'force' it. A great many ‘reality’ fighters and competition fighters go sometimes many decades missing this part of the way, and in every sense of the word possess only inferior skill.

Only fools will seek out foolish fights.

You may become a better fighter and in some cases (brain injury or bad trainingg practices) worse. Your intent and observation may change. A well understood resolution of combat can anchor intent deeply. Safe and good training practice will make you better.

The superior fighter will win every time.

Have fun.

Personally I prefer an art that uses hands and feet though. I respect grappling for its effectiveness once at that ‘phase’.

[TKDGirl18]

My school really doesnt teach punches except if it is to cover punch an opponent to open him or her up or to puch him or her in the upper chest when locked.

[Gae-Bek]

A full-on (fully committed into the depths of his soul for combat) TKD practitioner with only a limited selection of 'punching' experiences to draw from, but, who develops powerful kicks and go's through some high-grade fighting experience carries the potential to never need to 'punch' his opponent - he may never need to use grab.


In the street, anything can happen. Sure, you might get lucky and take someone down with a kick. Heck, I know a guy who spin-hook-kicked someone in the head with (cowboy boots on) in the street. But that's the extreme side of rare. The truth is, the best technique for the streets is a simple one, because in the real-world even simple things can get messed-up. Usually in the world of self-defense (unless you REALLY know what you're doing), kicking tends to get you in more trouble than it's worth.


The fight starts - then it gets over. The guy does not get up.



...with one well-applied technique.


The notion of one-shot drops is a movie fantasy at-best. I've seen guys fight through cut-eyes, broken noses, broken hands, broken fingers, and broken arms. Sure, you could get lucky and get one shot in the right place on the chin. But, as you mentioned yourself...


It boils down not to just method of fighting – but to the actual fight the artist possess within himself and what he knows beyond mere technique.

And that's true for BOTH participants in the fight...NOT just the Martial Artist.


In this case the 'experience' and training of the other guy matters little.

Actually, there are many guys who routinely get into street fights that have little training, but VASTLY more-experience than most Martial Artists. Sorry, but if I had to wager money on a TKD 5th Dan vs. a convicted felon who's spent a few years in prison, the felon will get my money every time. This is where you're dead-wrong. 'Experience' is everything.


Perfect timing and one perfect technique will serve you far better than 10 ways of fighting poorly managed.

Agreed.


If you get into a fight for the wrong reason (poor or shortsighted intent) the man/woman (artist) with superior observation, timing, and intent will win

That works both ways. Who's to say that the instigator in a fight for the "wrong reason" won't have superior observation, timing, and intent?


Only fools will seek out foolish fights.

Agreed.


The superior fighter will win every time.

That's something that we'd all like to believe, but that's very naive. You seem to have a highly-romanticized vision of what street combat actually is. It's not about "truth, justice, honor, let's take it outside, best man win"-type of Hollywood garbage. It's about sucker-punches, steel-toed-boots, and broken-beer-bottles-stuck-in-your-side.

Last month, a friend of mine was sitting on his front porch at 11pm, just enjoying the night. Then he sees two kids trying to break into his neighbor's car. He gets up, and takes-off running at them. One of them bolts, the other trips over his bike and falls. My friend gets there at a full-tilt, and tries to stop, but his bare feet on the asphalt trip-him-up (tearing-up his feet in the process) and he falls, too. They both get-up, the kid swings at him with a flashlight, misses, and takes-off. My friend doesn't chase him, as he's stopped the crime (mission accomplished), and also now has ripped-up feet.

Did my friend fight for the right reason? I'd say that looking-out for your neighbor's property would be a noble cause. Did the better fighter win? Well, in this case, two kids (armed with one flashlight) evaded a 4th Dan Black Belt (who BTW, is an accomplished competition fighter).

Black Fox, you make some good points, but you need to realize that your "Bruce Lee analysis" (of what street combat actually is) is seriously-flawed.

[Button Moon]

I think too many martial artists hypothosize too much. It's so lame to hear the overly used explanations from egotistical people spitting out recycled chiched 'knowledge' about whats most effective 'On the Street'! . Why does everyone still need to prove they know more than the next guy?

Everyone knows that all styles are flawed.

Everyone tries to convince that their style or ability is better.

Most people would crap it in a real street fight.

UFC fighters and pride are as close to real as anyone wants to take fighting. And that is leagues above most martial arts reality based fighting.

Simple :p

[TheLucksta]

I do a form of freestyle taekwondo at my school (they call it Korean Kickboxing). It's sort of an undisciplined form on taekwondo where all they do is teach us sparring in a Kickboxing/Taekwondo hybrid-like form. Basically its kicking like taekwondo and punching like a boxer. It's heaps of fun, and really gets the fitness happening too! This school also teaches WTF which dont do much hand work, which is a real weakness for those guys up close when sparring.

[ilbumy]

We train hands a good amount at our school, also people punch the bag a lot.

We do a lot moves straight out of the General Choi's TKD encyclopedia (which has punches, elbows, knees). Usually everyday for warm up we start out with roundhouse to hook punch, front kick to jab, etc... Second part of our classes is some type of bag hitting most of the time, sometimes we do focus pads, but usually we do the kicking pads. Everynow and then we do both. Also we do train in elbows and knees, just like General Choi said too :) Although our school does adapt with other styles a little bit, but there's no harm in that.

Also we have both light and full range sparring. I'm more of a full range sparrer cause I love using my hands, I boxed my friends, kick boxed a tiny bit, and read martial arts books before I was introduced to TKD, and I've always felt my hands are much looser.

also on a side note for Gae-Bek not all convicted felons are violence related :) so as much as I agree with your point on real world experience, you must realize that you are really generalizing criminals as experienced fighting machines. Plus experience isn't usually rank related these days anyhow.

[Eliz]

I do a form of freestyle taekwondo at my school (they call it Korean Kickboxing). It's sort of an undisciplined form on taekwondo where all they do is teach us sparring in a Kickboxing/Taekwondo hybrid-like form. Basically its kicking like taekwondo and punching like a boxer. It's heaps of fun, and really gets the fitness happening too! This school also teaches WTF which dont do much hand work, which is a real weakness for those guys up close when sparring.

Now THAT sounds interesting.

We are WTF but we train our hands all the time. We don't Olympic Spar, we free spar. The school I am in seems to collect a lot of former military (Not sure why), but hand techniques are essential. We also mix in a lot of the ITF forms and we have an entire section of "self defenses" that credit other styles all together (Kenpo, Hapkido, etc). It is a great school with a wide open attitude towards MA's learning.

[MollyB]

we box - a lot...and we train our hands a lot. mostly with the somewhat older students though...those that are in the "adult class"...when ever we do had drills they always include jabs, hooks, upper-cuts, etc....we practice them on hand targets, on bags, or with no targets, at each other

...occasionally we sparr - hands/boxing techniques only. i enjoy it a lot!