Osoto Gari & Knees

[Erik]

I've seen knees get mangled by osoto gari takedowns. Usually, it's damage to the inner tendon (ACL?) from being kicked from the outside.

Anyone know what is being done wrong in such cases?

Anyone care to explain how to do the takedown right without hurting the opponent's knee?

Thanks.

[jwinch2]

Erik,

That would most likely be the ACL although it could tear up your MCL also...

I believe that Sensei Carver taught me that you are supposed to make contact with the thigh rather than at the knee or below ut I could be wrong on that... :)


Later,

Jason

[Erik]

Here's a sample lesson on it by Dan Camarillo.

http://onthemat.com/articles/Osoto_Gari_by_Dan_Camarillo_07_21_2005.html#

He likes to hit the back of the knee (looks pretty hard!) with the heel.

Any other ideas on this? Especially safe ideas?

[Jeff C.]

Osotogari is actually one of the safest throws to take; it is also one of the first and most basic throws in judo. In fact, until now I have only seen one injury from osotogari. LOTS of injuries from taiotoshi, though.

If you sweep calf-to-calf, keeping your sweeping foot barely in contact with the ground, you cannot go wrong. If you start sweeping to the lateral aspect of the knee, you can endanger your opponent, especially with improper kuzushi.

Jeff Cook

[Abbax8]

Jeff covered it. If done properly, uke will be taken off their feet and onto the mat. Uke's balance should be broken such that he is supported on only one leg and the weight is on the heel, or if done as a side O-Soto, the outer edge of the foot. Knee injuries are caused by forcing the throw without breaking ukes balance. If tori does O-Soto-Gari by dropping to their outside knee and hooking with the other, this increase the chance of injury to uke.

Peace

Dennis

[DragonMind]

Erik,

I watched that video and don't care for the way he's doing it. He is actually telling you to hook the back of the knee with your heel and then try to continue powering through to a straight leg. I was always taught that was a bad idea because the opponent can collapse straight down, trapping the sweeping leg and injuring both of you. I learned it the way Jeff and Dennis are saying and have never had knee issue with it - and trust me I know about knee injuries. :laugh:

[STORMCROW34]

I'm hardly an expert but I was taught to break ukes balance to force them to put their weight on one leg and then quickly make thigh to thigh contact and follow through with the striking leg.

I was aware that I was doing it correctly because BOTH of the ukes legs would come up off the mat, and subsequently the uke would quickly strike the Mat.

[Musubi Dojo]

Is the guy in the video teaching some sort of tournament version of the throw maybe? The whole trying to sweep from miles away thing doesn't make much sense to me, leaves you open to a counter. I can see faking o soto and then moving into Tai otoshi..

Cheers
c

[starkjudo]

Stormcrow (Michael) describes O soto very well - I prefer thigh to thigh contact to calf to calf. Drive them onto one leg and back at an angle away from their body.

I prefer to be able to end the throw for a technical demonstration with my driving leg pointed as straight to the ceiling as possible. Make very best effort when you throw to have a slightly bent but still leg as your reaping leg. The biggest mistake I see beginners make is to come in, make good contact, and just try to hook with the calf. This has nowhere near the power of a good sweep that hits the hip/thigh.

[TonyU]

Stormcrow (Michael) describes O soto very well - I prefer thigh to thigh contact to calf to calf. Drive them onto one leg and back at an angle away from their body.

I prefer to be able to end the throw for a technical demonstration with my driving leg pointed as straight to the ceiling as possible. Make very best effort when you throw to have a slightly bent but still leg as your reaping leg. The biggest mistake I see beginners make is to come in, make good contact, and just try to hook with the calf. This has nowhere near the power of a good sweep that hits the hip/thigh.
As a beginner myself, but as I'm learning it, it is being taught to me this way, not the way shown on the clip.

[Rasputin]

Here's another vote of thumbs down for the o soto gari shown in the video.

1. I was taught that O Soto was an irimi technique. For this to be effective, nage must enter into and through uke's center, and it is impossible to do so when you leave your hips so far back. Left foot should be placed alongside uke's right foot, front knee should be bent, hips brought forward almost touching the right hip of uke, nage's right shoulder against uke's right shoulder.

2. I am stymied that he basically hopped up to uke. That does not seem particularly stable and balanced to me.

3. Kicking the back of uke's knee and coming in from the side as he does is just asking for a joint destruction. Nage's hips should be parallel to uke's, not perpendicular as he shows approximately 1/2 way through the clip.

4. Some of what he was showing was how to O Soto when uke's legs are offline a bit, with the right leg held back. I, personally, would O Soto uke's left leg in that situation, since it is the closer leg. If you have to go after the back leg, I would suggest Tai Otoshi instead since uke's hole in his balance is in that direction at that point.

5. Kazushi does not seem to be applied until after nage has thrown his leg out and kicked the back of uke's knee. IMHO kazushi should happen simultaneously with the entry, then the reap is applied once the balance is broken.

[starkjudo]

There is nothing *technically* wrong with how he is teaching the throw - it's not the classical version of it, and it requires some experience with the throw. I would not teach this method to a beginner. It's definitely a tournament style entry, and is mostly taught on the concept that he's hitting the leg from distance, which can be done effectively.

The big problem with this version that I have, is that unless you are incredibly good at it, it leaves lots of room for turnouts, blocks, and escapes.

[Erik]

Wow. Thanks for the answers, guys.

8+ years ago, I injured the knee of an umpteenth dan JJJ instructor with a bad O Soto Gari. I quit MAs for about 5 years because of this and only restarted because one of my students at Uni was a Judo coach and invited me to his club (probably for revenge for a bad grade I gave him...).

I still am scared of this takedown because I have no idea what went wrong when I hurt the guy and I have no idea what to do right to avoid causing injury.

[Jeff C.]

Erik, I am really sorry to hear you had that experience, but am glad that you are finally back out on the mat!

Here's why I don't like thigh-to-thigh contact: simple physics/leverage. The reaping leg is meant to sweep away the base of nage. You can generate MUCH more force farther down your reaping leg (calf) than you can higher up the reaping leg (thigh). It is also prefered to break the base of nage at the point closest to the ground and farthest away from his center (calf/foot).

Jeff Cook

[starkjudo]

I have to disagree Jeff. My problem with calf-calf contact is it makes it a lot easier at that height to step out of it.

[Webmaster]

Just a little clarification with regard to Jason's remark concerning the thigh contact. Basically I teach Osoto gari with the calf-to-calf method (really kinda aiming your big toe directly between uke's legs), however if you are in close, as you reap the leg, the first thing that will contact your uke will be your upper thigh. Then the calf comes in behind his calf (or through the legs) and down he goes. The initial contact with the upper thigh pushes uke's out just a bit (causes his leg to buckle slightly) so that it is no longer directly under the hip. That makes it easier to reap the leg since you have already started the motion of the reap by pushing his thigh (just a bit mind you) in the direction of the reap.

[Erik]

Sounds like your method (Robert) can turn into a lift and tangle of the opponent's leg and whoever has the better kuzushi at the moment determines who goes down.

Is this what you mean by a reap?

[starkjudo]

Just a little clarification with regard to Jason's remark concerning the thigh contact. Basically I teach Osoto gari with the calf-to-calf method (really kinda aiming your big toe directly between uke's legs), however if you are in close, as you reap the leg, the first thing that will contact your uke will be your upper thigh. Then the calf comes in behind his calf (or through the legs) and down he goes. The initial contact with the upper thigh pushes uke's out just a bit (causes his leg to buckle slightly) so that it is no longer directly under the hip. That makes it easier to reap the leg since you have already started the motion of the reap by pushing his thigh (just a bit mind you) in the direction of the reap.

Best description yet. I like this video. (http://www.judoinfo.com/images/video/mainline/osotogari.mpg)

[Webmaster]

Gari = Reap. Osoto Gari is not a sweep and it is not a kick at the person's leg. A reap in this context is likened to reaping grain, in that your leg it cutting the leg out from under the uke. Your whole leg is just the blade of that sickle.

[Erik]

So what is the difference between a sweep and a reap?

[Webmaster]

You sweep with the foot, you reap with the entire leg.

Also, your question regarding kuzushi is the same for all throws. If you do not off-balance your opponent first, then you are likely to be countered.

[Erik]

You sweep with the foot, you reap with the entire leg.
Ahhhh, the clouds are opening and illumination is coming through now...!

[wab25]

Wow, great discussion here. I had a few small comments on the subject. I agree with Jeff C. on how to do the throw and with Webmaster as well.

My addition would be that this throw was originally developed a long time ago, when having your opponent get up again after was not so important. You usually meant to finish them off once they hit the ground. Damaging the knee was/is a bonus.

Erik, sounds to me like you got a bum instructor. In all the JJJ jujitsu I have seen, you are to go with the throw, not go against it. Kano's push when pulled and pull when pushed idea. When someone gets hurt in JJJ as you described, then he did not go with the throw. At least the way we practice, it should take out the knee if uke does not go with it. At the point that you are off balance with tori in that position, your best counter is to go with the throw, add to the throw, and counter throw tori, as you fall. The instructor you injured should have gone with the throw, to protect himself, and should not have made you feel bad about it. You did the throw correctly.

[Erik]

Hi William,

How is someone meant to go with a throw during randori? If someone tries to throw me, I try to avoid being thrown. I think I misunderstood what you wrote.

As I remember the split-second of the accident, I tried to osoto gari and he had a lot of weight on the reaped leg and I probably hit the back of my knee against the back of his knee and twisted his shoulders. I think this twisted his knee and forced it to bend in a direction it's not meant to bend. Poor guy.

In principle, it's his responsibility to protect himself while training, he's the instructor and I had a few months of JJJ/Judo at that point, we all know the risks of getting on the mat, and so on. But I'd like to never repeat that accident regardless of whose fault it was.

Almost a decade later and I'm still scared of this throw.

[DragonMind]

My problem with it is that this supposed to be a reaping throw; basically striaght-legged as Robert said. Collapsing uke's knee from behind with a hook kick has too much potential for trapping nage's leg if uke ends up folding the leg and going straight down to the floor vertically. Both legs are tangled and knee damage is easy. I see it a lot in new students.

[wab25]

How is someone meant to go with a throw during randori? If someone tries to throw me, I try to avoid being thrown. I think I misunderstood what you wrote.

Don't fight against it. Assume you are both standing in judo randori stance, holding each others gi. As he moves, you should move and vice versa. As you move in closer to get position and off balance him, he should not stiffen up boardlike, and use strength to stop you. He should step back with you, maintaining his own balance and position. If you get to the point where you are close enough to him, in the right position and have his balance, then he should be sensitive enough to know that he has been had. As has been pointed out, this is one of the first throws taught usually, mainly because it is easy to know that you have been got and you are going to fall now. If you stiffen up, and try to muscle out of it, your structure is very bad, tori's structure is very good, something has to give out. Usually, its your foot that slips out causing you to hit the mat hard. If your foot does not give out, then something has to.

What you should do, is recognise that your are being thrown, and that your leg is in jeapordy. Then take a good fall. If you take a good fall, you will not get hurt, in fact it shouldn't bother you at all. Then you play the ground game... If you take the fall, but maintain your grip on tori's gi, and then add to the rotation, such that you get your body ahead of tori's throw, then you can easily counter throw him in mid air. Or, you could take the throw, fall at his feet where he wants you to fall and then pull him into your guard. ( there is a cool roll to do this, that takes a little explaining )

The fact that he was the instructor, and an Nth dan in JJJ, he should have known he was gotten, and taken the fall. Pride probably got in the way, he didn't want to be gotten by the student.

To be truthful, injury like that in this throw is not very likely, especially when both sides are very inexperienced. Thats why so many people teach it first. ( its also easy to slow down in kata, and let uke sit down ) If you make the throw smoothly, and be sure of your off balancing, 99.9% of the time, uke goes down, and you continue your randori. If you have any doubt about whether uke will go with the throw, switch to tai otoshi, and throw him forward. (if he stiffens up to resist o'soto gari, he is setting up tai o'toshi for you) Then if he still doesn't go, switch to maki komi. Its a nice three throw combo.

Or, if you start o'soto gari, and feel uke resist, you can stop the reap, place the ball of your foot on the ground between uke's feet, then slam your heel down to the mat. This should straighten your leg, and pop ukes leg up. Some people I know teach o'soto gari this way. Set up just like before, wrap your leg around uke's then push your heel down and pop uke's leg up. I don't feel thats a "reap", but it is effective and it has very little chance (even less than o'soto gari) of injury.

If I remember right, Erik, you like BJJ..... That being the case, if someone gets you with o'soto gari, take the fall, and hang on, bringing tori to the mat with you. ( the counter throw idea works well ) Then use your ground game. Or, use the standing trip take down many of the Gracie's use, it has almost the same set up, except that your left foot is a bit closer. The second way I mentioned to throw o'soto gari, heel stomp method, is very similar to that standing trip. You wrap your leg around from the outside, plant it in the ground and stomp. If you get your position, and really off balance uke, then reap right through the leg, there should be no problems. Your accident, was not the norm for this throw. Practice it in kata for a while. Use too much kazushi so they almost fall over without the reap.

I hope that helps.....

[jwinch2]

Just a little clarification with regard to Jason's remark concerning the thigh contact. Basically I teach Osoto gari with the calf-to-calf method (really kinda aiming your big toe directly between uke's legs), however if you are in close, as you reap the leg, the first thing that will contact your uke will be your upper thigh. Then the calf comes in behind his calf (or through the legs) and down he goes. The initial contact with the upper thigh pushes uke's out just a bit (causes his leg to buckle slightly) so that it is no longer directly under the hip. That makes it easier to reap the leg since you have already started the motion of the reap by pushing his thigh (just a bit mind you) in the direction of the reap.

Thanks for jumping in, you said that 10 times better than I did!

Jaosn

[Erik]

Wow! Great posts, guys!

[Tony Dismukes]

I originally learned how to do osoto-gari in the classical way. I could demonstrate it very impressively against a cooperative uke. Unfortunately, I could never pull it off in randori, as my opponents could always get the attacked leg back out of reach.

I've recently switched to the version taught by Dan Camarillo in the linked video (reaching for the leg, hooking the back of the knee, hopping to close the gap), and I've been having much better luck with it. It's actually becoming a reasonably high-percentage move for me. I've been getting it in randori, and I got it in one of my matches at a tournament this past weekend.


2. I am stymied that he basically hopped up to uke. That does not seem particularly stable and balanced to me.

That was my reaction when I was first taught this variation. Suprisingly, though, it works. You have to maintain kuzushi as you hop, but that's pretty much the case with all judo throws anyway.

I haven't seen or heard of anyone getting their knee hurt by this method. Then again, I'm not an experienced judo player, so I wouldn't necessarily know.

[jabonn]

Sorry I got here late.

The video appears to go into more of a O-soto Gake rather than Gari. He uses more of the calf than the actual heel of the foot to drive to the pit of the knee.

Two things out of the video - He reaches with the technique and doesn't use the punch to the jaw enough when establishing kazushi. He may have been using the distance and closure method to demonstrate his point, but utilizing either O-soto gari/gake at that distance will get you tossed. (remember the counter to O-soto gari is O-soto gari - he who establishes better kazushi - Ippon)

I will ASSUME this video/technique was directed more to the BJJ audience.

[Jeff C.]

Tony, theoretically and practically, if you achieve and maintain kuzushi, ANY throw will work. You are just more comfortable with that version of the throw. By the way, if you have not done so, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that you develop a good sumigaeshi; it is an EXTREMELY high-percentage throw against BJJ purists with an excessively defensive posture (which describes most BJJ competitors).

The BJJ/judo throwing distinctions are completely irrelevant for this discussion. A throw is a throw, a punch is a punch. The principles of throwing are universal.

We need to maintain the priority of proper kuzushi here. If I execute proper kuzushi, I can throw you with my little finger. If I don't, well....then I have to muscle the technique through. Kuzushi should be developed first. If I have proper kuzushi, I do not need to "crash in" with the throw and make hard thigh-to-thigh contact. If I have proper and perfect kuzushi the nage will not be able to counter or escape the throw.

However, I love Robert's use and description of the thigh just nudging and assisting with maintaining kuzushi, and I find that I do the same thing too. After all, perfection is very rare on the mat, and most of the time we have to add a little "oomph" to our execution. ;)

There is probably no physical difference between how I execute the throw and how others execute the throw. But I teach my students to "put their mind in their calf" and reap to the proper place slightly AFTER kuzushi/maai is established. If they do that, incidental contact will occur at the thigh anyway (secondary to the other mechanics); with this visualization, I don't have to teach them that incidental contact and the utility of it - it just happens.

Great discussion guys; I just wish we were all sitting around a mat talking about this. :)

Jeff Cook

[Erik]

Great discussion guys; I just wish we were all sitting around a mat talking about this.No kidding!

[Tony Dismukes]

If anyone has any links to videos of judo players pulling off osoto-gari in competition (either the traditional or the reaching variation), I would really appreciate it. Once you've learned the mechanics of a throw, a huge part of getting good at it seems to be experiencing and watching how experts actually apply the throw in contest. (How they set it up, where they place it in combinations, what timing they use.) I've never had the good luck to work out with any osoto-gari specialists and I've never been to a judo tournament, so I've had to just experiment on my own. I make no claims for the superiority of one method over the other.

Jeff, I've occasionally had success with sumigaeshi, but I wouldn't claim that I'm all that good with any of my throws. I can eventually get most people down, unless they're a really good wrestler or judo player, but the key word is eventually. I want to get like those guys who can reliably take you down in a instant the moment you give them any opening at all.

[Abbax8]

There are three related throws that get confused
O-Soto-Gari
O-Soto-Gake
O-Soto-Gari

Robert explained O-Soto-Garo very well and for purposes of brevity let's use that. I can't get the video to work so I'm taking a guess here. If tori's leg is doing a kicking action against ukes stiff leg then taking uke straight down, then in reality the throw is considered O-Soto-Otoshi. O-Soto-Gari is a 1st. set throw. O-Soto-Otoshi is a throw in the Shimneieshi-No-Waza (the 65 reintroduced throws). This throw is an advanced tecnique that requires skill to do it properly. Properly means not injuring ukes knees. Of course if it's on the street, injure away.

Another point- Yamashita (now retired) is probably modern judos best O-Soto-Gari fighter. If you watch him do it in contest, at least half (or more) of his attacks are sideways.

Peace

Dennis

[TonyU]

Great discussion guys; I just wish we were all sitting around a mat talking about this. :)

Jeff Cook
Not me. Me being the lightest and easiest to throw, inevitably I'll be the one picked to be demonstrated on. :D

[starkjudo]

Tony, i'm 5'8 and 155, and Jabonn's more of a runt than me. You got no worries :)

[Cliff Hargrave]

There are three related throws that get confused
O-Soto-Gari
O-Soto-Gake
O-Soto-Gari



That's three?? :)

[Jeff C.]

C'mon, Cliff - Dennis is another old man who has been dropped on his head and choked out too many times! Give the guy a break! ;)

Tony D, if you are good with butterfly guard sweeps, then you should be pretty darn good at sumigaeshi. Think "butterfly sweep" and put your butt as close between your opponent's feet as possible when you sit down into the throw.

If you are not so good with the butterfly sweeps, practice them first, get good at them, then work your sumigaeshi. You will find that they are almost exactly the same.

(I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence or abilitites with my advice - I have no idea what your training or skill level is, so please accept my apologies if I am out of line.)

Tony U, you are an a$$-kicking karate guy; I would be VERY hesitant to use you as an uke, as you may decide to use ME as a living, breathing makiwara!

Jeff Cook

[Abbax8]

YUP! Choked, head dumped and some days VERY old. But actually, that's what happens after working OT, coming home and packing to leave on VACATION :) . The third throw is O-Soto-Otoshi, I got it right in the lower paragraph.

Peace


Dennis

[STORMCROW34]

Osotogari is actually one of the safest throws to take; it is also one of the first and most basic throws in judo. In fact, until now I have only seen one injury from osotogari. LOTS of injuries from taiotoshi, though.

Jeff Cook

I whole-heartedly concur with this statement based on personal experience.
Wrenched knee. Hyper extended knee. And a transverse fractured rib, all compliments of Tai-Otoshi. But in Tai-Otoshi's defense, I have been known to be a somewhat stiff uke. As an uke it would usually take me quite awhile to get comfortable enough with the dynamics and speed of the throw to actually loosen up and enjoy it like a short lived roller coaster ride.

As far as Osoto Gari, if remember correctly. We used shoulder to shoulder, or forearm to chin/throat contact to break the ukes balance once he/she is moving in the 10 or 11 o'oclock direction. This would put as basically hip to hip. It seemed that sometimes just by being that close to the uke was enough to break their balance, but the shoulder contact or forearm in the throat usually sealed the deal so to speak. And then we would reap the thigh in the reciprocal direction in which the balance was broken. And as I stated earlier BOTH legs would quickly come off the ground, subsequently keeping our legs from being entangled. It seemed when I reaped the leg too low, or if I didn't get close enough, I would hook the knee and we would frequently become entangled and collapse in a heap.

Which leads me to wonder if the thigh to thigh contact is preferred among TJJ/Judo enthusiasts where the focus is to remain standing, while the calf to calf method is preferred among the BJJ crowd where the ground is the place to be?

[Tony Dismukes]

Dennis, in order to get the video to play, you have to click the really small link titled "Osoto Gari" on the right hand side of the page under the title "Videos" and under the picture of the scantily clad young lady.

In case you still can't see the video, it doesn't seem to be an osoto otoshi. The breakdown is more or less as follows: Apply kuzushi with the arms as per normal. The opponents target leg is back out of range, so instead of stepping past the target leg with your own outside leg, reach out with the inside leg and hook the knee of the opponents target leg. At this point the hook is just to keep the opponent from retreating his leg further away. (Also it buckles the knee slightly so the opponent can't push back so well.) Hop towards the target leg, leaning slightly forward and continuing to apply kuzushi so you don't get reversed. Once you've caught up to the target leg, you're now in a more or less standard osoto-gari position and can reap the leg. I've had this method taught to me by a BJJ instructor and by a judo instructor, prior to seeing the Camarillo video. It probably works well for me because my legs are so long.

Jeff, I had noticed the similarity between sumigaeshi and the butterfly sweeps. Unfortunately, the butterfly guard is still one of my weakest areas. I'm working on improving it, though.

[Erik]

Hey Jeff - is Sumi Gaeshi straight over the top or is there a lateral compononent to it?

Also, what about Tomoe Nage for use in the same circumstances as you suggest Sumi Gaeshi?

[Jeff C.]

Erik, sumigaeshi can be over the top, especially if you butterfly both feet in. I personally prefer a more lateral approach with one butterfly in. So in answer to your question, both!

Tomoenage is great for the same situation. I'm more comfortable with sumigaeshi, due to my long legs and personal preference.

Jeff Cook

[Erik]

I think what you say is true on this.

In the ol' Judo club we called the Tomoenage a "dumb dumb" takedown as only beginners fall for it.

At BJJ it works great, though.

Do you have any preferred takedowns for guys with short little legs?

[Jeff C.]

Sumigaeshi, drop seoinage (seoinage executed after quickly turning and dropping to your knees - a favorite of my BJJ instructor too), taiotoshi, ogoshi with the BJJ clinch-entry, hizaguruma, and deashibarai/harai. I think a fireman's carry might be good for a shorter guy too, as long as you work your transition into grappling from that throw.

What I don't like about tomoenage (although I have successfully pulled it off in judo tournament) is the fact that it is harder to get your butt as closed to nage as possible, it is slower than sumigaeshi, and it is easier (in my opinion) to collapse on the foot and thus easier to pass the leg if nage collapses on tori. Another GREAT thing about sumigaeshi is that if you unsuccessfully pull it off, the worst that can happen is you pull guard, and sometimes you can still transition to a butterfly sweep. Not so good for a judo tournament, but GREAT for BJJ comps!

If your legs are long enough, I would work virtually all of the sutemi in the judo syllabus.

Jeff Cook

[mateo]

I lost my right ACL to a fellow powering through my knee with osotogari. I have to agree that I prefer to think that his method was not the one most people should emulate ( therefore improper ) however I hardly think that such is an isolated event. I think a lot people clip the side of the knee pretty hard instead of applying proper kuzushi or applying the fulcrum higher. There seem to be lots of legitimately different ways of applying osoto. That old book "Vital Judo" by Sato and Okano shows at least 4 contest proven methods. The kuzushi is different for different situations it seems.

[shinbushi]

If you start sweeping to the lateral aspect of the knee, you can endanger your opponent, especially with improper kuzushi.

Jeff Cook
My left leg is fragged because of this in randori. The only Good thing to come out of it is,now I tell all my students(We also have osoto gake in the Bujinkan) to only reap the back of the leg and I will pull them out of sparring if they do it to the side.

[Tony Dismukes]

I just got out from the Library a copy of "Modern Judo' by Peter Seisenbacher (2x Olympic Gold medalist) and George Kerr (8th dan). Seisenbacher shows a version of osoto gari similar to what is shown in the video. He states that he considers it to be much more likely to succeed than the classical method. He also appears (from both the pictures and the descriptions) to be going after the side of the target knee rather than the back of the knee. He doesn't comment on the relative probability of injury.