View Full Version : Your Own Belt System
If you were to create your own MA, and assuming that you elect to use belts to show rank, what would each belt mean within the context of your own system?
For me, it would be something like the following:
White - Neophyte. Just started, totally clueless of our MA (though maybe knows about others).
Green - Beginner. Ball is rolling, got the idea and is now able to fit what one is learning in context. If it were BJJ, this would mean that the athlete knows all the positions (guards, mounts, etc.) and at least one move from each one. In kickboxing, this means that the athlete can do each strike and kick and land it acurately and solidly on pads and is ready for sparring. Does not mean the athlete is competitive, yet, but can now join the "big kids" class" and understand what is going on.
Blue - Adept. Athlete knows the game, can train with most people without either partner getting injured. Knows how to move and make techniques work. Body is used to the abuse incured by our MA. Athlete can represent the team out in the world. Can beat all Whites and all Greens who are not about to be promoted to Blue.
Brown - Competitive. Athlete knows the sport and is at a going point athletically and in terms of skills. Can consistently beat Whites and Greens.
Black - Expert. Can coach, train, teach. Implies ability to analyze and communicate as well as skill enough to regularly tap out all other belts except for Browns about to be promoted.
In all cases, skills are evaluated by competitive alive training as well as basic, non-exhaustive technique testing (athlete has own selection of favorite moves for each position). In no cases does a higher level belt imply superiority or worship. Darwin is alive on the mat with us, so if someone is getting tapped or KOed by lower belts, they have zero bragging rights.
Gene Williams
08-03-2005, 15:34
There are too many belts in most karate schools because commercial instructors created a ton of Mickey Mouse colored belts so they can charge more money. White, Green, Brown, Black would be my preference. In my ryu and my dojo, a shodan is still a young chicken. It means you are ready to get serious about karate and know the basics. I like Erik's descriptions of each rank, though. I don't think a shodan in karate is as far along as Erik's shodan in judo/BJJ.
Jared Sutton
08-03-2005, 23:02
I agree with Gene...
The prescence of so many belts, in my opinion, gives the students a chance to have lower rank as an excuse to practice and perform with mediocrity. A more generalized grouping is the key to weeding out those who come to train and those who come for the ride.
Yeah I have to agree. I like the way Soo Bahk Do is set up, white belt, orange belt, green belt, red belt, midnight blue belt.
There is no black belt, it's midnight blue. There's many interpretations to this. One is the idea that there is no 'expert', there is no definate end. The connotation with black belt being the end. I've been taught that Soo Bahk Do is a living art, and we are always learning, growing, even if we are at the black belt level. I'm pretty sure that people have said to you "Oh wow, your a black belt? You must be pretty good then." But in the back of my head, you and I both are thinking "That may be so, but I'm still not perfect, I have my own personal issues, I am still improving, I am still getting better."
Another thing I feel thats unique is that at my dojang, even if you start out, you have to earn your white belt. So there's new students, and all they have on is a brand new white dobok. Sometimes they don't even wash it or anything, just wear it straight from the packaging and theres still creases in it from the factory. After several weeks, when they know how to bow in, basic command terminology, very basic movements, they earn their white belt.
hizaguchi
08-04-2005, 17:49
White: Beginner. Limited knowledge and ability. This belt signifies to all others that the wearer is not ready to fully train in the style. This could be due to a lack of falling skills, a lack of basic understanding, or a lack of ability to learn without "hand holding".
Blue: Ready to learn. Limited knowledge, but has grasp of basic concepts and abilities. Signifies that wearer is ready to learn by example and participate in all aspects of the class (i.e. I know how to fall, throw me. I know how to block, kick me.).
Brown: Experienced. Has developed a strong technique vocabulary and is now capable in the style. Should have no problems with basic and intermediate techniques, and is ready to learn advanced techniques and deepest intricacies of old techniques. Should be a leader in the class and is responsible for assisting others with problems.
Black: A level of mastery that I don't know how to describe. I'm not there in any art, by any means. Few ever are.
I hate rank tests. I think belts should be awarded at the instructor's descression when the student is ready. White belt could last anywhere from a week to several years, depending on the student. Black belt could take a lifetime, and it would be well known to all who begin the style that there is a good probability they will never reach this level. Also, belts should be revokable. Just because you earned a brown belt 15 years ago does not automatically make you a brown belt for life. If you loose your ability, let your technique degrade, or forget what you have learned, you can be demoted for the sake of keeping the ranks meaningful and practical.
If you were to create your own MA, and assuming that you elect to use belts to show rank, what would each belt mean within the context of your own system?I would have no color, but shades of grey, starting with black and working your way to white. At the very beginning, your mind and your body and your knowledge of the martial art would be shrouded in an unknowing, inexperienced blind darkness. As you progressed through the 10 shades of grey you would be gaining knowledge, experience, ability, technical acuity, and most importantly, Good temperament, until finally you wear pure white, which would denote a mind free of afflictions and a pure moral integrity.
Gene Williams
08-04-2005, 22:25
White: Beginner. Limited knowledge and ability. This belt signifies to all others that the wearer is not ready to fully train in the style. This could be due to a lack of falling skills, a lack of basic understanding, or a lack of ability to learn without "hand holding".
Blue: Ready to learn. Limited knowledge, but has grasp of basic concepts and abilities. Signifies that wearer is ready to learn by example and participate in all aspects of the class (i.e. I know how to fall, throw me. I know how to block, kick me.).
Brown: Experienced. Has developed a strong technique vocabulary and is now capable in the style. Should have no problems with basic and intermediate techniques, and is ready to learn advanced techniques and deepest intricacies of old techniques. Should be a leader in the class and is responsible for assisting others with problems.
Black: A level of mastery that I don't know how to describe. I'm not there in any art, by any means. Few ever are.
I hate rank tests. I think belts should be awarded at the instructor's descression when the student is ready. White belt could last anywhere from a week to several years, depending on the student. Black belt could take a lifetime, and it would be well known to all who begin the style that there is a good probability they will never reach this level. Also, belts should be revokable. Just because you earned a brown belt 15 years ago does not automatically make you a brown belt for life. If you loose your ability, let your technique degrade, or forget what you have learned, you can be demoted for the sake of keeping the ranks meaningful and practical.
Don't make attaining black belt the main focus of your karate. Too many commercial schools use that as a carrot, which makes the students think that shodan is the be all and end all. A shodan is still just a beginner in many ways. You are still very early in your karate life. In my dojo, a shodan is way junior.
hizaguchi
08-05-2005, 10:10
The reason I would put the black belt so far along is that it carries a much loftier connotation than "ready to learn" for most people. I would like it to be so difficult to obtain that very few people would ever begin the art with the goal of "becoming a black belt". Furthermore, no one outside the art would ever look at a black belt and think, "For a black belt, that guy really isn't so impressive." I say all of this because I am 2nd dan in TKD, and although I know what that really means, I have seen the way the color of that belt changes the way others look at me. It is obvious in my family, who always say "Brandon is a black belt! He can take care of himself." But it is even present in the lower ranking students who "know" what a black belt is supposed to mean. They expect the level of excellence Chris McLean describes of 4th degree. And lastly, I have seen the effect of giving promising students a black belt. For some of them, it completely removes their drive for improvement. They think that they have achieved the ultimate goal of the martial arts, and they stop pushing themselves. I know that this is their own fault, and not a flaw in the ranking system, but if I were making my own system I would want it to signify, even to the least perceptive students, that even the highest ranking students in the class still have room to improve.... and then finally, if they ever do get a black belt, it will not be until they really understand what it means... because even with seemingly perfect mastery of the art, there is room for improvement.
Just my thoughts on it. Doesn't agree with the traditional ideals, but that's not really the point of this thread anyhow.
RA Miller
08-05-2005, 20:09
White belt- Student
Other colored belt, maybe brown- Adept, licensed to represent the style in a match or duel.
Black- Instructor
Hey, that's how we already do it....
In this system you recieve at the time of your training one white belt.
Thats it. You don't get anymore.
Eventually the belt will get dirty, covered in grass stains, blood stains, body sweat and grease. If the practitioner trains long enough the belt will get black-ish.
Then as continued training and wear and tear take hold of the belt's material, it frays and eventually returns to white. Then you can buy a new one :D
Kamikaze aku
08-17-2005, 18:19
DUDE?!?!? DONT MESS WITH THE TRADITIONAL SYSTEM :mad:
You're kidding, aren't you, Aharon?
ezzthetic
08-17-2005, 18:32
I like that it seems quite hard to get your hands on a BJJ BB, though I'm sure there are some dime-store BJJ BB out there by now. Most of the brown belts I've met and know of are pretty damn good already.
DUDE?!?!? DONT MESS WITH THE TRADITIONAL SYSTEM :mad:Dude?! Do more research; the system is hardly traditional. Hint: look up the contribution that the founder of Judo made to martial arts today.
YiLiQuan1
08-18-2005, 09:44
In this system you recieve at the time of your training one white belt.
Thats it. You don't get anymore.
Eventually the belt will get dirty, covered in grass stains, blood stains, body sweat and grease. If the practitioner trains long enough the belt will get black-ish.
Then as continued training and wear and tear take hold of the belt's material, it frays and eventually returns to white. Then you can buy a new one :D
Please, dear God, tell me you don't believe that that is the origin of the colored belt system... :eek:
The school I'm in uses white, yellow, green, blue, brown, black, and red. We added a ton of old material to the testing requirements; previously we had no belt, then white, yellow, blue, black, and red.
Personally, I'd be fine using only white and black. Or maybe just shortcut the whole ego thing and have everyone wear black belts... Then you'd know the people were there to train and nothing more (since they got their black belt the minute they walked into class!).
Whatever. Belts help teach you to breathe properly. If it isn't being used for that, then it is a useless accessory to your "costume."
Whatever. Belts help teach you to breathe properly. If it isn't being used for that, then it is a useless accessory to your "costume."
No, belt helps keep pants up. :D
Tony - do you guys have beltloops in karate?
We use drawstrings.
Perhaps we should color drawstrings according to rank....
;)
Tony - do you guys have beltloops in karate?
We use drawstrings.
Perhaps we should color drawstrings according to rank....
;)
Oh, you mean karate belts? Sorry. I thought we were talking about my JC Penny black belt. Patent leather, shiny buckle....
YiLiQuan1
08-18-2005, 10:08
No, belt helps keep pants up. :D
No, that'd be the drawstrings... You can't even say that the belt keeps the jacket closed, since the jacket has ties inside...
I know you are just quoting Mr. Miyagi, but there are some folks who actually believe that line... :rolleyes:
I know you are just quoting Mr. Miyagi, but there are some folks who actually believe that line... :rolleyes:
You're quick. I wanted to see who would catch it. :laugh:
You guys watch too much TV. :D
too little TV is just as bad as too much
Sapphire
08-26-2005, 22:55
My own belt ranking system? No way. If I had a say so in the belt ranking system, it would be like what Koroshi said. The student gets one white belt that he/she is not allowed to wash. I would do this for two reasons. Reason no. 1: it elimanates the goal of just achieving a black belt. Achieving a black belt is not the goal of martial arts. Reason no. 2: In medieval times, the old masters would give their students one white belt. They were not allowed to wash the belt. Eventually the belt would become dark colored from sweat. So in those times someone with a dark colored belt is someone who was a student for a long period of time; meaning that student was good. This is where we get the modern black belt.
1) Why not just give people a black belt? If you get a black belt the first day, then no ones worried about getting one, right?
2) The whole white belt turning black and back to white is myth. All good myths are based in reality. A white belt will get darker with age and use, and a black belt will fade. But a white belt will never turn black. No amount of sweat and dirt will ever get it darker than brown. Also, no matter how much it frays out, if you never wash it, the frays will just turn brown as well. Black fade is a result of washing.
As for my opinion on belts? I wear a BDU belt and could care less what color it is. Ive got a certificate saying what rank test I last passed... its in a box somewhere.
It kinda depends. How long will it take them to reach their black belt?
When somebody trains every day, and can get is 1st dan in about two years:
white, yellow, blue, red, brown, black does it for me.
When it takes four to five years to reach 1st dan, I would get some colors in between there, mabye: white, yellow, orange, green, blue, purple, red, brown, black.
But then again, we don't charge enormous amounts of money for belt-test (about $8 and you will get your belt for that price as well).
Reason no. 2: In medieval times, the old masters would give their students one white belt. They were not allowed to wash the belt. Eventually the belt would become dark colored from sweat. So in those times someone with a dark colored belt is someone who was a student for a long period of time; meaning that student was good. This is where we get the modern black belt.
You mean there are actually people who believe this story???
a student goes to a karate teacher and asks "How long does it take to get black belt?"
the teacher responds "about 5 years"
"What if I train hard every day and devote my entire life to karate training?"
"Then it would take about 10 years" replies the teacher.
as for the myth of a white belt turning black...the dan test takes place in a tar pit with my belt system. :D
Right To Defend
08-27-2005, 21:02
a mind free of afflictions and a pure moral integrity.
How do you measure that?
Right To Defend
08-27-2005, 21:03
a student goes to a karate teacher and asks "How long does it take to get black belt?"
the teacher responds "about 5 years"
"What if I train hard every day and devote my entire life to karate training?"
"Then it would take about 10 years" replies the teacher.
"I don't understand" says the student.
"You see" says the teacher "If you train with your eyes on a belt, then you are not training for the art and takes twice as long"
Right To Defend
08-27-2005, 21:05
You mean there are actually people who believe this story???
I hope not! Colored belts as a ranking system is relativly new to the martial arts.
The color system was set up in the order it is so you could dye your belt as you progress and didn't have to buy a new one each time.
No, that'd be the drawstrings... You can't even say that the belt keeps the jacket closed, since the jacket has ties inside...
OMG! There are drawstrings in my jacket? :eek: And to think I actually believed the line about the belt holding it closed. :D
And Erik - I love the idea about colored drawstrings! I'd have to have purple ones. Unfortunately no one would see them (except when my jacket comes open).
. Reason no. 2: In medieval times, the old masters would give their students one white belt. They were not allowed to wash the belt. Eventually the belt would become dark colored from sweat. So in those times someone with a dark colored belt is someone who was a student for a long period of time; meaning that student was good. This is where we get the modern black belt.
Uh...no. That is incorrect.
kenpo123
08-27-2005, 22:10
yeah i hate the rainbow of belts.. my school is white yellow orange purple blue bluestipe green green stripe.. brown..brown 3, then brown 2 and brown 1.. black
they should just let the white belt get so dirt .. when its black.. you got some skill.. old school
Jared Sutton
09-07-2005, 22:16
Off subject real quick...
klaasb, what's with the dan-generator?
Jared Sutton
09-07-2005, 22:18
OOOHHH!! Pretty funny! I wondered why you hadn't been eaten alive yet by some of the traditionalists.
Origin of coloured belt system.
The story below that I copied from another forum (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30518) is the most plausible story that I have on the introduction of coloured belts. It's the same story that was told to me and the rest of my club at a training session in France. The person who told is was Roland Hernaez, direct student of Minoru Mochizuki. Mochizuki was a direct student of Kano, Ueshiba and Mifune. So for me very plausible.
Best research seems to indicate the whole coloured belt thing came through the inspiration of Mikonosuke Kawaishi, a remarkably fascinating character who hasn’t gotten nearly the attention he deserves in martial arts histories.
Kawaishi (1899-1969) was a jujutsu guy who got taken into the Kodokan in the first decade of the last century. There’s a story right there. Kano, apparently was in the habit of “inducing” good jujutsu practitioners to come and teach/practise at the Kodokan. He used their skills to advance the reputation of the school; they used the good name of the school to separate themselves from the sleazy reputation jujutsu had at that time.
Kawaishi went to the US in the Twenties and taught in San Diego and elsewhere. Then to England, then to Paris. Introduced judo there and taught until the start of the war, when he returned to Japan. Somehow ended up in a Manchurian prison, which would be another fascinating story to unravel. After the war and his prison sojourn, he returned to Paris and stayed until he died.
Kawaishi was interesting in that he was among the first martial artists to try to modify teaching concepts to meet the needs of non-Japanese. So instead of using Japanese names for the waza, he came up with a system of numbered names: First inner leg hook, etc. He is also credited with fooling around with coloured belts. Previously, Kano had only authorized the white and black and the red and red-and-white stuff. Kawaishi apparently felt that these colours would be an incentive to study. The practise of awarding coloured belts first showed up in the US in the early Fifties, in judo.
Kawaishi had a lot of fights with the Kodokan over the course judo was taking. His supporters insisted he was “returning” judo to the roots planted by Kano. To others, he was a rogue. He kept many of the early judo techniques that the Kodokan later decided were too dangerous for shiai. But he was also a huge proponent of kata and a teacher of his particular brand of goshin-jutsu. He also taught Mifune’s go-no-sen-no- kata, one of the more fascinating and most overlooked aspects of judo, especially in the United States. He wrote at least one book on judo kata.
It would be enormously worthwhile for someone to write a biography of the guy. I think his son is still alive and teaching in Paris.
Cordially,
__________________
Dave Lowry
A side note: someone on another forum claims that Kawashi actually 'borrowed' the coloured belt system from Gunji Koizumi at the Budokwai in London. (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31155&page=1)
Shorin-Ryu Sensei
09-08-2005, 12:19
What I always find interesting about these belt debates is that everyone hates more than a 3 kyu system (white, green, brown) but take 10 grades of black belt for granted.
hizaguchi
09-08-2005, 12:56
1) Why not just give people a black belt? If you get a black belt the first day, then no ones worried about getting one, right?
I like it.
Ed,
Welcome to Budoseek.
What ryuha of ShorinRyu do you study and under who, if i may ask?
Cliff Hargrave
09-08-2005, 14:45
I have always wanted to model a belt system similar to the way LEO training is ranked here in Texas. You are a student, instructor, or trainer. Pretty simple, everyone is a student until they complete the requirements of instructor. Instructors have to complete the requirements for trainer. Trainers are basically the ones that teach the instructor courses. Three levels, that's all. I guess it could be translated over to martial arts as white belt, black belt, and whatever belt to designate master. Simple and easy.
Shorin-Ryu Sensei
09-09-2005, 11:06
Ed,
Welcome to Budoseek.
What ryuha of ShorinRyu do you study and under who, if i may ask?
Matsubayashi (mostly) under Arthur Drago of Front Royal, VA ...... Mr. Drago is associated with Iha Sensei in Michigan, Erler Sensei in New Mexico, and Ferrara Sensei in New York .... in fact, he started with Ansei Ueshiro back in the early 1960s.
Matsubayashi (mostly) under Arthur Drago of Front Royal, VA ...... Mr. Drago is associated with Iha Sensei in Michigan, Erler Sensei in New Mexico, and Ferrara Sensei in New York .... in fact, he started with Ansei Ueshiro back in the early 1960s.
Cool.
We (myself with my instructor, and the school) trained under Iha sensei for abotu 10 years. I tested 3 times under him.
You are aware, though, that he is Kobayashi, right?
Well, anyway, welcome to Budoseek again and don't be afraid to jump in with both feet or head first if you like. :D
Cliff's system seems best from one perspective.
The arguement to more kyu belt colors might be that if you allow students to help lead lower ranked students, you need a means of easily and quickly differentiating between more and less capable/experianced students. Commands like "green belts and up grab 3 white belts and demonstrate outward block" at an early class would become difficult. However, if you plan to demonstrate and have your instructors demonstrate alone, then there is not so much of a need for belts - perhaps a white for students, a brown for instructors and a black for trainers.
I would just have..
White - for the new people
Red - those are are getting to grips with the system
Purple - I would make sure there is at least a 3 month gap between the grading for the purple belt (from red). The candidate would have to be able to spar proficiently and know most of the techniques.
Brown - can spar, demonstrate technique, be able to compete on some kind of level. Can also be an assistant to coach.
Black - the know it all. Can basically coach/teach.
And I would make sure that to grade it costs around £15-£20. Would also be harsh with the grading. Nowadays people are getting away with silly mistakes and its just not on in my opinion.
I have always wanted to model a belt system similar to the way LEO training is ranked here in Texas. You are a student, instructor, or trainer. Pretty simple, everyone is a student until they complete the requirements of instructor. Instructors have to complete the requirements for trainer. Trainers are basically the ones that teach the instructor courses. Three levels, that's all. I guess it could be translated over to martial arts as white belt, black belt, and whatever belt to designate master. Simple and easy.
I see BJJ like that.
White and Blue for students.
Purple and Brown for Instructors. Not that they have stopped being students, but they should be doing a fair share of coaching as well.
Black for Trainers.
cuguacuarana
11-02-2005, 00:56
I like the colored belt system, not so much as a goal for students to reach for, but more as a measure of their authority at the gym. Of course higher belts should understand the art better than lower belts, but its important for less skilled students to know who to look to for instruction. The holder of the belt should understand that it is not only a symbol of their skill level, but a symbol of the responsibility they hold to other members and the organization. There would be no tests, belts would be awarded based on instructor discression.
white-beginner-The starting point regardless of background. White belts should focus on basic movement, position, technique, fitness and understanding of the game. As they begin to show a stronger ability to move, last through live drills, and engage their opponent, they are approaching the next level. An ability to impart what they've learned to newer students is a sign that they are approaching the next level.
Yellow-beginner-Once a student seems to have learned the ropes and is showing greater proficiency learning and applying techniques they are at this level. They still have a lot to learn technique wise, but are beginning to develop gameness and are getting submissions more frequently. They are learning vocabulary and are developing an even stronger ability to impart their knowledge. As they are reaching the advanced end of this belt, they can teach the ropes to a new student and easily tap a student of lower skill. They are also showing increased drive and discipline.
Green-intermediate-These students understand most aspects of their own game and the game as a whole. They not only show improved skill, but they demonstrate a stronger ability to speak about and teach the art to others. Students in this catagory are expected to show commitment, drive and discipline both in and out of the gym. They should serve as role models, so they should also be expected to show personal integrity and maturity. students may spend a long time here. As they approach the next belt they should have strong game, be strong teachers, have broad knowledge, etc.
Blue-advanced-high level student, strong game, driven, good teacher, fit, etc.
Black-advanced-Highest level. Students here have complete games and are able to teach the complete art to others. They are the best the gym has to offer and are expected to live up to that role. There are no ranks beyond black, so a student at this level should demonstrate a commitment to always train and progress.
I have always wanted to model a belt system similar to the way LEO training is ranked here in Texas. You are a student, instructor, or trainer. Pretty simple, everyone is a student until they complete the requirements of instructor. Instructors have to complete the requirements for trainer. Trainers are basically the ones that teach the instructor courses. Three levels, that's all. I guess it could be translated over to martial arts as white belt, black belt, and whatever belt to designate master. Simple and easy.
I do like that system, but I would add one pre-level, and that is Beginner. A Beginner would be an introductory level, where the student is taught the basic principles course/style/system, how training techniques, etiquette, how to execute the basic techniques safely, get an understanding of what they will learn.
SilentEvil2
01-13-2006, 15:59
No belt- I feel that you have to earn your belts (all of them), stance is only learned and the philosophy behind the Martial Art.
White Belt- The stance should be well learned by now no wobbling perfectly balanced, some basic footwork is now beging to be learned, forward back side to side. Also basic striking and grappling are now utilzed
Yellow Belt- Speed the footwork up, striking is now of the essence so to speak, grappling skills are up to pair with striking. Sparring is optional with pads and other protective equipment.
Orange Belt- The feel for the martial art is now in place, sparring is utilzed with most of the training, new footwork is show as well as new striking and grappling. This should be the belt you have the longest. More of the philosophy is learned and varations of the style is learned as well.
Red Belt- Congrats in my system you are now a physical master of the art, pads are taking off and full contact sparring is utilized. The only difference between this and the black belt is the knowledge and experience about the art.
Black Belt- You are a master in body and mind of the art, that's it I think stripes are useless.
Jonathan Randall
01-14-2006, 01:57
I would probably eliminate the ranking system altogether. In my opinion, it has done more to corrupt the martial arts than anything else. True, many use it effectively as a tool, but in general it has not served the martial arts well.
Gene Williams
01-14-2006, 06:28
The rank/belt system is a mess...certainly in America and probably throughout the West. All you can do is maintain high standards for belt rank within your own organization or ryu. Most of the traditional Japanese/Okinawan ryu at least have kata requirements and proficiency guidelines for each belt, and you have to have at least that. Standards vary quite a bit, though.
If I ran the zoo, I'd have just white, green, brown, black. Shodan thru Godan would be given on proficiency and tested for, the rest thru 8th dan would be for what you give back (and you have to give a good bit back). That's pretty much what we do now in my ryu. Nothing beyond 8th dan, PERIOD.
The non-traditional, competition/full contact, NHB, etc. don't have as much of a problem/ You either hold your own in the ring or you don't. Simple. They don't need belts.
SilentEvil2
01-14-2006, 15:27
Have to agree, my Wing Chun instructor uses no belt system.
Neil Yamamoto
01-14-2006, 22:10
How about this idea?
White- student, in good standing, works pretty well and tries to learn
Black- Senior student, knows how to do basics well, can help beginners in their studies, and continues to work on learning more.
Worn out looking black belt- Guy who runs the dojo and hands out belts.
Brown belt- same as the color of the students nose. Identifies the people who don't get why they are there and think sucking up to the guy with a worn out belt is the way they get rank.
Yellow- student afraid of their own shadow, gets more attention from the worn out belt guy to over come the problem and get a white belt.
Red- identifies the student who is hurt in class. Worn only temporarily.
Purple- also for injuries, only no blood leaking in involved.
Probably won't go over well in most dojo. I'm feeling acerbic this evening, I think I'll go pour myself a good scotch. If this is deemed inappropriate, mods, please delete.
Now where is that bottle of Ardbeg....
White and black.
That is how it was originally done in my HKD school - you were a white belt until you became a black belt which takes approx 5+ years. Very simple.
Now some colors have been added but they have no real meaning. Once a year GM randomly goes around and gives out new belts. Black belt is still the only belt you actually test for and my test lasted almost 4 months. Each class GM tested me on different elements.
Yang Wei Xin
01-17-2006, 18:01
I would give them a white belt on their first day of class, and a cubbyhole to store it in between classes, belt would have to be kept at school, when it turned black of its own free will, congrats, you made it to black belt
SilentEvil2
01-17-2006, 18:09
White and black.
That is how it was originally done in my HKD school - you were a white belt until you became a black belt which takes approx 5+ years. Very simple.
Now some colors have been added but they have no real meaning. Once a year GM randomly goes around and gives out new belts. Black belt is still the only belt you actually test for and my test lasted almost 4 months. Each class GM tested me on different elements.
Alot of students I take it didn't like that to much did they? I think it's brilliant system, belts are useless thoguh in a sense, I've seen so many black belts get knocked out on the street by someone who hasn't been trained, it's the person not the belt.
Alot of students I take it didn't like that to much did they? I think it's brilliant system, belts are useless thoguh in a sense, I've seen so many black belts get knocked out on the street by someone who hasn't been trained, it's the person not the belt.
I don't think that was the reason. This is an all adult school and I believe most of the students are there to learn HKD. It just really isn't a belt race kind of place.
He has been teaching for over 30 years and he actually started adding the colors with me (about a year and a half after I started) and nobody is exactly sure why. At BB promotion time he just randomly handed everyone [non-bb's] a color. I am his only female student to ever last more than just a few classes and it is generally thought that he was hoping to bring in more women. Didn't happen! At any rate, we now have colors. He really does just randomly assign them once a year! :laugh:
DragonMind
01-17-2006, 20:48
What I find interesting is all these systems of belts but no explanation of the purpose of the belts. Kano created them for a simple and logical reason that would actually create more rather than less belts. Ego and greed perverted his system. I'm curious what purpose you see for the belts (other than hanging knives off of, suspenders can hold pants up).
What I find interesting is all these systems of belts but no explanation of the purpose of the belts. Kano created them for a simple and logical reason that would actually create more rather than less belts. Ego and greed perverted his system. I'm curious what purpose you see for the belts (other than hanging knives off of, suspenders can hold pants up).
But suspenders make my butt look fat.... :laugh: KIDDING!
White = Beginning student
Black = Advanced student
As stated, the other colors have no meaning. Black is the only belt we actually test for. Maybe he just wanted some PIZZAZZ! Who knows - no one has asked, and he has not offered an explanation.
DragonMind
01-18-2006, 08:44
But suspenders make my butt look fat.... :laugh: KIDDING!
Nothing could make you look fat.
White = Beginning student
Black = Advanced student
Let's play with that idea a moment. Do we really need belts at all if that is the only purpose? Thirty seconds of observation should handle that question.
We would just need some way to visibly differentiate between instructors and students. The instructors could wear shirts saying “instructor” or a different uniform if one is worn.
One of the additional reasons I think a belt system is useful, as I have thought about this more since my last posts in this thread, is for sparring/randori (where applicable). I talked to an acquaintance who recently joined a boxing club. He was saying that whatever sparring is done is only with people at his own (beginning) level, and that a similar matching system pervaded in his club at most levels, with the exception of those who had regular training teams (presumably pros), who were the only ones to work with those below their own level in the ring or with contact. Sparring someone more experienced was referred to at one point as “suicide.”*
I can contrast this to my own martial arts experience, which has included being able to spar with even the black belts almost from day one. Part of the reason we can do this is that they can evaluate my level of ability in part by my belt color, and adjust intensity and rule set accordingly. If I could only spar people at approximately my own level, I don’t think I could learn as much.
The same applies to self defense drills, where the "attackers" adjust their degree of resistance largely on the basis of the belt the defender is wearing. The beginners (like me) often are allowed to perform the technique with mild resistance. The mid-to-advanced kyu grades often adapt and end up on the ground. The black belt tests can turn into timed and extended grappling as both sides adjust significantly.
Now, in a non-contact art or in a training hall with very few students who all show up consistently, this might not be much of an issue, as people might know each other’s levels by constant observation (as in some MMA clubs, or so I have heard).
This sounds similar to one of the original purposes cited for using belts in judo to determine who could compete safely with whom.
*I don’t know if this paragraph is in any way representative of boxing clubs in general, and I do not assert that it is.
Good points, Kevin. My own minimum exposure to boxing clubs is that they more or less scoff at belts or anything else remotely resembling MA's. Understand, my exposure is VERY limited.
Let's play with that idea a moment. Do we really need belts at all if that is the only purpose? Thirty seconds of observation should handle that question.
Need vs. benefit.
No, I don't believe they are a necessity - excepting to an instructor that teaches many, many students per day.
I do believe defining the advanced students is a benefit to the instructor, however.
I have regular classes that I teach weekly, but I also sub out to neighboring schools. It is a huge benefit to me to walk onto the mats and immediately know or approximate the skill level of my class. That gives me a beginning point, than a quick observation during warm-ups fills in the rest.
As for the individual student, the display of rank seems to vary. Most students I know have a sense of accomplishment in achieving promotion in rank. I don't mean the middle ranks as much as I mean BB rank. Remember, my ideal is white and black only. :)
I know of several students who believe in white belt and no belt - you wear a white belt until promoted to BB belt, than you wear no belt at all. Ask these same students where their BB's are? Always neatly tucked in a clothing drawer, gym bag, or closet top. Never thrown away. Never, "I don't know." That says to me that the promotion in fact meant something to them. Maybe they aren't of the nature to display it, but it did in fact mean something.
So, why don't I believe in doing away with the belt system all together? Simply put, I believe that it has benefit and meaning to both instructors and students alike. I do not believe that MA's would cease to exist without a belt system though.
DragonMind
01-19-2006, 18:53
Well, you all have just recreated Kano's reason for creating the belt system in the first place. He was promoting inter-school competition and needed a way to designate the skill level of people so they could be safely paired for competition. The finer you want to discriminate skills, the more belt levels you need.
In the martial arts I study as my primary system, white belts are earned. Originally, there were three obvious levels: no belt, white sash, black belt/red sash. Gold, Blue, Green, and Brown were all added later for a variety of reasons I'm sure everyone has heard some variation on.
My understanding of belts and my opinions as to their use changes over time. Like so many others, I was told the legend of the belt color progressions. At the time I thought it was interesting and only superficially believable (blue and camo belts? come on people). However, as a legend and story it served a purpose. In the metaphorical sense, it was very true in the western ranking systems.
It is my current understanding that sashes (not belts) were originally introduced to provide back support...nothing else.
As for why some systems use midnight blue belts instead of black belts, I believe it is because that is the color worn by warriors in the originating society (just as purple was considered the "royal color" in Rome).
My dream belt ranking system:
None: you come in and you learn the very basics (falling, exercising safely, etc.)
White: you have shown dedication and demonstrated respect for your instructors and competence in the techniques shown thus far
Green: you have shown competence in all beginner material
Brown: you have shown continued improvement in the beginner material and competence in all intermediate material
Black: you have shown continued improvement in the beginner and intermediate material and competence in all advanced material
None/uniform change: you have shown continued improvement in all materials covered by the system, you have also added to the system in a meaningful way (much like a PhD dissertation is supposed to)
zatojoshi
03-20-2006, 19:49
My ideal belt is pretty much the same as my school is, I think I'd eliminate the yellow and orange belts, and have people "earn" their white belt. The complete uniform to me signifies that one is willing to trade their ego in and be the bottom of the barrel for a while. Green is intermediate, purple is a brush-up on skills, and brown is a transition period to black. After black, I don't think there should be anything. No fancy stripes, just work that black belt until it falls off. :p
An idea I thought of to solve the "junior" belt rank problem is to add a white stripe through the middle of each junior belt, and then hold a "coming of age" ceremony at 16 or so. The point of that is so the juniors learn to respect and look up to adults. And instead of a junior black belt, I'd create a "grey" belt to indicate that they are in transition between being a child and being adult, and then when they are 16, switch to a black belt.
In my belt system, there would be a white belt to be earned by beginners who show determination and the understanding of techniques. Then would come Orange belt, then green belt. By blue belt, one will know all the techniques but will not know how to apply them in a live situation. A purple belt will be able execute his/her moves on most students. A red belt will be the next step up, very advanced. Then a silver belt(Expert), and finally a Black Belt which only a few will ever recieve only by BB and to become a BlackBelt, you have to prove yourself time after time through competition and the ability to teach the MA and still improve on your technique.
I prefer the old TKD belt system that my first school used.
White
Yellow (2 levels)
Green (3 levels)
Brown (3 levels)
Black
It created four tiers below black belt, absolute newbie, beginner, intermediate, advanced, with sub-strata to differentiate between the skill levels and seniority within those tiers. Also, because of the simple color progression, we could die our own belts after we'd been promoted at a promotion party, which was cheaper and more fun than buying a new belt. Also, the promotion parties fostered cameraderie in the dojang. From yellow to green, just add one packet of blue and two pakcs of dark green dies. For green to brown, add one red and and two brown packets.
Vagabond
07-21-2006, 09:48
What about your belt being your uniform. Yes you have your Gi, or whatever you call it. I never liekd patches on them though. What if you had a sash (Waist) white yellow red then black, and you put your accomplishments on it. You earned some sort of 'medal' to put on your sash for the number of times you have sparred, years you have trained, and so on. Do you think this would be a good idea or no?
Jeff Burger
07-21-2006, 10:45
Well I dont have a school anymore but we had a youth ranking system and a adult ranking system.
For adults white, yellow, green, brown, black.
For the kids we put stripes in there. Why? To break down larger goals into smaller ones and so they didnt have to wait a year to get promoted. It was done for motivation / retention.
As far as money we didnt charge youth or adults for testing.
I also had some kids with a different competition rank. If they were cleaning up in beginner Id let them compete at intermediate or of they were cleaning up at intermediate Id let them compete advanced.
I had a couple of green belts that were cleaning up even in black belt division.
In class they wore a green belt at tournaments they wore a black belt.
Why werent they a class black belt? Because they just didnt know all the requirements.
My kids were allowed to comepte above their rank but not below.
To my surprise none of the Karate gods cast lighting bolts upon me. :rolleyes:
Musubi Dojo
07-21-2006, 11:23
One belt, pink.
You have to wear it 24-7 and actual rank is determined by the blood stains.
When I train in public (at a park or something) and I'm wearing a belt, I always wear a white belt.
I think if I were to ever run a school I'd just have everyone wear white belts. That way, if they're ever asked by someone the ridiculous question "So, what belt are you?" (as if most people even understand the question they're asking) they can just smirk and reply, "nope, still a white belt." I've been doing that for years and I've never eaten any nonsense from random people regarding how 'tough' I am or if I think I can 'kick their ***.'
It's just a useful tool to stay away from all that.
Jeff Burger
07-21-2006, 12:06
My first Ju Jutsu class had no promotions.
Two teachers and usually 4-6 students.
6 years as white belts and nobody cared.
AllanJGAnderson
07-21-2006, 17:51
One belt, pink.
What about ATA camo ?
No, that'd be the drawstrings... You can't even say that the belt keeps the jacket closed, since the jacket has ties inside...
When I was taking Aiki-no-jutsu we wore Judo jackets which had no ties on the side, the reason being they'd just get ripped off in the first few minutes.
I've said before that if it were up to me there'd be a white belt to which you'd add black stripes on one side with the fraction ratio toward black on the other so that in a 10 rank system, a student half-way there would have 5 black stripes on one side and 5/10 in Arabic numerals on the other. That would be four and 4/8 in an 8-rank system...or thirty-seven and 37/74 in a McDojo....or more appropriately...the other side would say $1850/$3700 for the McDojo.
That would wholly do away with the rainbow motif and be instantly recognizable across all system boundaries. But it will never happen. Making sense is not very traditional, alas.
Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI USA
fDMiLKiS
07-22-2006, 22:15
In this system you recieve at the time of your training one white belt.
Thats it. You don't get anymore.
Eventually the belt will get dirty, covered in grass stains, blood stains, body sweat and grease. If the practitioner trains long enough the belt will get black-ish.
Then as continued training and wear and tear take hold of the belt's material, it frays and eventually returns to white. Then you can buy a new one :D
they didnt wash their belt once? :eek: talk about odor protection :laugh:
JiuJitsuRabbit
08-03-2006, 10:44
At my school we use the standard BJJ belts.
White, Blue, Purple, Brown, Black.
What I really like are the stripes. 4 stripes per belt and the 5th stripe being a color upgrade.
That works out to 20 ranks before Black. The idea behind each stripe is it is a mini test. They are very informal and we have a requirement list to meet before we can test. White belts it is 20 hours of mat time, above it is 80 hours of mat time.
Second, you have to demonstrate techniques from your list. This allows the teachers to see your technique and correct any problems they see. Belt tests are usually more instuctional than class. It is a nice 1 on 1 session with 2 or 3 instructors, which is very nice.
Many will likely believe the system to be commercial and it is to a degree, but then again I have seen people instantly promoted to 4 stripe white simply because of thier skill on the mat.
Also having belts lets people easily identify who to ask for help in a class. With myself quickly approaching a blue belt, new people often come up and ask me to help them with testing requirements or simply tips on rolling.
My absolutely favorite part of BJJ belts is the fact that 16 and under don't wear the same grades as adults and when you turn 16 you often start back at white.
Honestly, once I personally make blue. I will just buy a new white belt and roll with that at school. I only want blue so I can start training in the advanced class.
This is how i would have it.
White for people starting out
Blue for non begginers
Brown for advanced
Black for very advanced
Basically there would the following type of people in my imaginary ranking system:
I'd use the white color to symbolise that they are "blank" and "void" of experience and skill (like a blank sheet of paper. You're still getting introduced to the art, but you haven't learned how to properly use it. You have no real knowledge of the art.
Brown or red is anyone who can call themselves "practitioners". You get it as soon as you've learned the basics. Unless you become a teacher, you keep this belt for the rest of your life, no matter how good you get.
This would be good to get rid of a person training just to get a belt. Basically, it only differentiates between absolute novices, and practitioners. It doesn't go as far as completely abolishing rank, but it comes close.
Children under the age of 10 would only get the white belt. Best would be for those under the age of 14.
Black is only meant to symbolise that you are an instructor. It doesn't matter if you can instruct, only that you do. This doesn't directly symbolise a level of skill, although a person who teaches would of course have to be profiscient in the art. It's more a function, rather than a rank.
Adon4Ever
08-26-2006, 01:04
I'm kinda undecided on the whole thing. I mean, the pros of having a belt system is that it's an easy way to determine where a particular student is at, for purposes of instruction. But on the down side, it IS an ego-boosting system, AND it does seem to encourage participation in the arts for the wrong reasons. AND in reality it really is meaningless.
Now I'm not saying that I would NEVER have a ranking system (though I certainly see the point of those that don't believe in that sort of thing). But if I did, I would keep it simple. No stripes or "degrees" or fancy in-between titles (i.e. "Super-Duper Pop-You-in-the-Pooper 8th degree black belt"). Just a few basic belts to differentiate between beginner, intermediate, advanced, and master/instructor.
In the MMA program that I was a part of for several years, you actually wore sashes (in the style of Wing-Chun, which was the largest part of the MMA program). You started out with NO sash, and would be tested when the instructor felt that you were ready. The system rated gold, blue, green, brown, brown with black tip, and black. One thing that I liked about the system was that unless you were PLANNING on actually teaching (not just being ABLE to do so), then black tip was the highest belt that you could possibly attain. I think that if *I* chose to have a ranking system at all, that I would do it that way.
Incidentally, in some Muay Thai schools (the martial art that I've chosen to identify with, which I trained in as part of the MMA program), they use the armbands that were traditionally worn during Thai bouts in Thailand as a way of ranking, like the belts and sashes. Again, not sure if I'd even do that, but just saying.
Josh
i think the belt system is a little too long. In my school its the following:
White=Beginners
White with a little red band = Beginner knows a little bit of it.
White with two little red bands = same??
Yellow = Is a good beginner
Orange = Is a medium
Green = Knows a lot and wants to learn more
Blue = Can train with a partner, knows what he does
Brown = Advanced
Brown 2= Hmm...the same
Black= Really advanced, if you had trains almost years to get this belt
You see this are a lot, it would be more efficient if the shaolin need to reach only 4 belts Yellow, Blue , Brown, Black so he must train more to reach his belt. And not doing it little by little and spending a lot of money. Im one of the people that thinks that the belt is not important, i want to be a good Black belt not reach it very fast. I do not like people like that, that aim only for the belt.
JiuJitsuRabbit
08-28-2006, 06:34
White=Beginners
White with a little red band = Beginner knows a little bit of it.
White with two little red bands = same??
Yellow = Is a good beginner
Orange = Is a medium
Green = Knows a lot and wants to learn more
Blue = Can train with a partner, knows what he does
1 2 3 4 5 6 belts before you can train with a partner...wow.
I train in two systems. One with a belt system, the other with none.
In the first, we go by this ranking:
White - Beginner, knows nothing
Green - Beginner, but we trust you not to kill yourself. Can be obtained within a couple of months.
Purple - Intermediate. We start teaching some of the advanced techiques. Takes a couple of years to get here
Brown - Almost advanced. We teach you many of the advanced and dangerous techniques. We dont quite trust you just yet not to accidentlaly kill someone on teh street with this technique but in the dojo we think you know what you are doing
Black - Yes you know what you are doing. Keep training in all the basics as well as advanced techniques. You are a teacher.
We also go by a dan ranking system, as prescribed by Jujitsu America. But we dont consider you a "Shodan" until you teach a class and can demonstrate enough teaching ability to raise someone to Green belt. Up to then you are just a "Black belt"
It works for us, and helps us pick what techniques are right to teach to someone. They have goals to work towards for each test and everyone ends up learning at the right (their own) pace.
In the other system, we have no rank at all. Just teachers and students. Nothing on your uniform dictates this. The biggest drawback to this, is that everyone learns the same techniques no matter if you are a beginner, advanced or a teacher. To the beginners this can be very confusing, or near impossible if we are working on a very advanced technique. One day, you are asked to become a teacher. No testing or anything of the sort. Just when the head instructor feels you are ready to be a teacher, well then you are....
Both work, but I have a slight bias towards the ranked system if only for the structure it imposes on learning. The unranked system does have the advantage that the learning atmosphere is relaxed as nobody is jockying for position, attention, or anything based on some percieved rank.
Mandeigh Wells
08-29-2006, 14:51
I'm with Eliz on this white and black what else do you need ? (other than to give kids a bit of encouragement and small step goals)
I wore a white belt for a whole year at TSD..I never tested and did not particularly care for being upped in rank, untill I knew my forms inside out and was able to perform them to a good level.
Now I'm in Haedong Kumdo.....I'm in a white belt and I'm sure I will stay there until I have learned all that I need for black belt.......then I'll learn some more.
Vagabond
08-31-2006, 18:54
Under my instructor my friend and I have no belt. All we get are new moves. Once we have either become competant or mastered the move (depending on the difficulty) we get a new move. We also have no uniform, we train in street clothes so to be ready for the not so flexibleness of street clothes.
We have a system of sashes in my school, which I believe is based on the system of sashes used by the master whose style we learn (Augustine Fong's system of Wing Chun).
It goes:
No sash
White Sash
Yellow Sash
Red Sash
Green Sash
Blue Sash
Brown Sash
Black Sash
Do the rankings have something to do with making a bit of money for the school through gradings? Probably...but it doesn't cost much.
Frankly, I see the benefits of the sash system. As a new student, it was easy for me to identify the levels of the students who had been there longer. It also makes it simple for our Sifu to judge at a glance who can help demonstrate techniques, or what students ought to be working with eachother (avoiding pairing new students when learning new techniques, for instance).
Our Si-gung (my instructor's instructor) is retired but tends to take over the class about once every few months when my Sifu is otherwise occupied. Since he is not always there, he doesn't track the progress of various students as closely. The sash system makes it easier for him to know who should be working at which levels.
I also think the sense of accomplishment that reaching a new level in your training brings with it is worthwhile.
Da-RiSiN-sMoKe
09-15-2006, 17:02
Hmm, a TKD place I went to had no red belt.
I wonder what moves you want to put in or discard if you want to make your own system.
Unless you guys are like Bruce Lee and do no belts at all.
mofokuban
09-22-2006, 01:34
I would do it the old Okinawan way...
You would get one belt. It would be white.
And eventually it would turn Black.
10 kyu - 1 kyu
Then Shodan is when you really begin your training.
Cliff Hargrave
09-22-2006, 02:03
I would do it the old Okinawan way...
You would get one belt. It would be white.
And eventually it would turn Black.
10 kyu - 1 kyu
Then Shodan is when you really begin your training.
Sorry, you have been lied to.
Click Here (http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2005/09/09/urban-legends-of-karate-belts/)
I would do it the old Okinawan way...
You would get one belt. It would be white.
And eventually it would turn Black.
10 kyu - 1 kyu
Then Shodan is when you really begin your training.
Wow, I didn't think people still believed that urban legend.
Vagabond
09-24-2006, 22:59
Hmm, a TKD place I went to had no red belt.
I wonder what moves you want to put in or discard if you want to make your own system.
Unless you guys are like Bruce Lee and do no belts at all.
Horray, just something to keep your pants on, nothing more.
MasterAtArms
12-21-2006, 07:53
I would probably go with what used to be done many many years ago.
Students were given a white belt and only a white belt, they trained and trained in grass, sand, dirt, ect. and eventually the belt turned a black color. Then after that happened I would allow the student to die the belt black or wear a black belt. Why have oranges and purples and colors like that.
JiuJitsuRabbit
12-21-2006, 08:14
I would probably go with what used to be done many many years ago.
Students were given a white belt and only a white belt, they trained and trained in grass, sand, dirt, ect. and eventually the belt turned a black color. Then after that happened I would allow the student to die the belt black or wear a black belt. Why have oranges and purples and colors like that.
If you look up about 3 replies you would see this is incorrect.
I would probably go with what used to be done many many years ago.
Students were given a white belt and only a white belt, they trained and trained in grass, sand, dirt, ect. and eventually the belt turned a black color. Then after that happened I would allow the student to die the belt black or wear a black belt. Why have oranges and purples and colors like that.
Something else for you to do research on. The belt system of ranking is credited to Kano sensi of Judo. It is very well documented. It is also discussed greatly here amongst other threads.
Yang Wei Xin
12-21-2006, 11:49
Not disagreeing with you, because I know it to be true that Kano invented the belt ranking system, but the karate men must have worn an obi before that, how else would they keep their jackets closed?
If so, I would be interested in seeing pictures, altho I guess they wouldn't be in color, so no way to see if it was white, dirty, or just another color.
Cliff Hargrave
12-21-2006, 17:54
Actually Josh, I have seen pics of old Okinawan guys training in shorts or regular pants and no shirts. Kano invented the dogi too. Kano was one of Funakoshi's sponsors in Japan and Funakoshi adopted the dogi and belt system from him. No other martial art used them before that. They just trained in whatever their normal clothes were for the day.
Josh, believe it or not but Kano also invented the gi as we know it today. Karate adopted that from Kano as well.
Jeff Cook
I cross-posted with Cliff. Kano was the man! ;)
Jeff Cook
David Craik
12-21-2006, 18:05
The dogi were originally underclothes, to be worn under kimono. They were comfortable to train in, and later strengthened due to the wear and tear.
The 'dirty belt' thing is a myth.
I would have no belts, only licenses for higher grades. This isn't optimal for mass instruction and martail arts associations, however.
Prince Loeffler
12-21-2006, 18:06
Not disagreeing with you, because I know it to be true that Kano invented the belt ranking system, but the karate men must have worn an obi before that, how else would they keep their jackets closed?
If so, I would be interested in seeing pictures, altho I guess they wouldn't be in color, so no way to see if it was white, dirty, or just another color.
Here you go Josh:
Miyagi's Dojo
http://www.alljapankarate.com/gallery/OKINAWAN-HISTORICAL-PICTURES/asiaphoto9
Typical Keiko Gi of Okinawa ( Thank you ! Thank You ! Kano Sensei !:D :
http://www.alljapankarate.com/gallery/OKINAWAN-HISTORICAL-PICTURES/a_sintesis_historica_item_quees_karate_1
I would have no belts, only licenses for higher grades. This isn't optimal for mass instruction and martail arts associations, however.
You know, I'd have to admit, I wouldn't mind returning to that way of advancement.
Here you go Josh:
Miyagi's Dojo
http://www.alljapankarate.com/gallery/OKINAWAN-HISTORICAL-PICTURES/asiaphoto9
Typical Keiko Gi of Okinawa ( Thank you ! Thank You ! Kano Sensei !:D :
http://www.alljapankarate.com/gallery/OKINAWAN-HISTORICAL-PICTURES/a_sintesis_historica_item_quees_karate_1
I dunno, I kinda like the mawashi look. (the diaper on the right)
Let's celebrate man t*ts and beer bellies!
I wore white until I started training with my teacher's brother
who had a small club nearby. When I started there, the other
instructor asked what belt I was. I said that he would have to
ask my teacher. Next thing I know, I was awarded my Shodan.
As a Dan rank I can say I can do without it, but I remember
my way up and I really wanted the recognition.
Prince Loeffler
12-21-2006, 21:15
I dunno, I kinda like the mawashi look. (the diaper on the right)
Let's celebrate man t*ts and beer bellies!
I don't know Ray, It might get mighty cold training outdoor....:D
Yang Wei Xin
12-22-2006, 10:20
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Thanks for the pics, that was interesting.
http://www.alljapankarate.com/albums/OKINAWAN-HISTORICAL-PICTURES/nagamine_2.sized.jpg
I hope I look like this when I'm 60.
Cliff Hargrave
12-22-2006, 10:28
I hope I look like this when I'm 60.
I just hope to be alive at 60 :)
Musubi Dojo
12-22-2006, 11:04
My favorite ranking system was in Wing Chun.
New people stood closest to the instructor so they could see what he was doing.
Mikey Triangles
12-22-2006, 15:53
My belt system would be much more intricate and accurate to the ability of the martial artists I was training.
1) Black Belt- I would immedietly give out black belts because that's all most of the people signing up for an MA want anyway. So it would get them out of my way right off the bat; and it would symbolize the way some people already think they know everything before they really start.
2) Magenta- After the new black belts train with a more experienced member and get emasculated a bit magenta seems a fitting color for the belt.. you know not quite hot pink because at least they stuck with it, but they just got tossed around like a girl by a whit belt. Also they could earn Rainbow stripes on the magenta belt everytime they copmplain about having to wear a magenta colored belt.
3) White- Now you're a true begginer, but you know some stuff so you can mess up the black belts :)
4) Red- let's face it, white belts are rough and cause lots of bloody little annoying injuries because they don't have good control. Red is only a practical choice for the next belt color... I'd try to save money.
5) Blue- after red you can get your blue belt if you've won some tournements and progressed well, otherwise you go back to megenta and earn the title of "sissy"
6) Black 2- let's face it. Blue belts begin to think they know EVERYTHING. So once again Ima throw a black belt at 'em so they can be on their way ;)
7) Purple- after that stage you can get down with a slightly more bisexual color... here you'll realize that you really don't know a goddamn thing, but yopu'll start teaching anyway, because you're teacher tells you to ;)
8) Brown- the color of poo... also the color of the belt of someone that really knows some stuff :)
9) Super Black- now you actually may know everything...
7)
jjbeard926
01-04-2007, 03:35
I would use White, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple, Black. We use drawstrings in Shaolin Kempo Kung Fu.
Everyone starts with a Black Belt (represents your potential) with 10 tips (white tape)
representing your kyu grade. (8 tips=8th kyu) Then for each grading promotion we strip a tip away until you have a solid BB. THEN we add tips as you progress in dan grades (say, red tips or whatever) So in 4-5 yrs you also have this nice worn out BB that we all lust for.:laugh:
It seems that everyone is so against the Black belt....how many of you DON"T wear it even if you have been promoted to it???
Does anyone of you not wear a belt and not use rank in your dojo???
Musubi Dojo
01-05-2007, 08:07
It seems that everyone is so against the Black belt....how many of you DON"T wear it even if you have been promoted to it???
Does anyone of you not wear a belt and not use rank in your dojo???
I wear it in a class setting when teaching.
For seminars and the like I often wear gi pants and a t shirt. Outdoors it's green army pants and a t shirt.
I think the blackbelt has lost a lot of it's meaning, it's not really a standard anymore or terribly impressive. Once people start dipping them in battery acid and dragging them behind their cars to make them look older.......well I give up.
I just take the measure of the person wearing the belt the same as I would any kyu ranking or any other artist.
Cheers
c
JiuJitsuRabbit
01-05-2007, 13:20
I dont wear mine with no gi obviously and only wear it with the gi because i need something to keep it looking presentable.
When I train in other schools, even other bjj schools I always wore a plain white belt despite what rank I might hold elsewhere.
i think I would use the same we have in our shotokan club. it seemed to work pretty well for me and i don't think i'd change it.
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