is your dojo open for everyone?

[Tuna]

hello,
my question is,whether there is a selection of beginners in your dojo?would you exclude someone from training for special reasons?if yes,what are theese reasons?

[AndrewSimonsen]

Yep, we try not to cater to rapists, criminals, dirty old men, those that cannot behave themselves, and the like.

[KayJay]

I'm sure there are some we won't accept in our dojo. Sensei does a personal interview with all prospects and although anyone is allowed to watch, he is particular in who joins.
Our class is actually small with about 8 more advanced students who joined around the same time and have been there for years.
The beginners group looks to be down to four people now and he's trying to get us inline with the others so we can all work together.
I did notice right away that the level of commitment is very high among the members as mentioned to me in the initial discussion. Our dojo is not the place for any fly-by-night aikidoka who only show when they feel like it. Even if allowed to join, they certainly won't last long.

Don't get me wrong, this place is great. There are no attitudes here and everyone is on the same sheet of music. It's quite a bit more beneficial when all the participants are there on a serious note rather than just to pass the time.

[Abbax8]

Whose allowed to join, anyone who is willing to follow the rules and gets past my initial gut check. Who stays- anyone I allow to stay, who follows the rules. It's real simple.

Peace

Dennis

[Tripitaka of AA]

Is this question exclusive to the Shorinji Kempo forum. At the moment I see no question of, or answer from, anyone related to this Art. I shall ask for it to be moved, unless there was some speficif reason for it being here...

[Tuna]

you can move this thread, it seems as if nobody from SK wants to answer...
of course there can be an exclusion of someone who do not follow the dojo rules, but
i want to know if you allow people to join training, when you know they maybe did not behave correctly in the past?

[Brady Robinson]

Well, in our Shorinji Kempo dojo I don't think we've ever prohibited anyone from joining, at least not while I've been there. Since we practice at a community center there are quite a few people moving around the building for reasons other than Shorinji Kempo, and quite often some of these people will stop and watch our class for a few minutes. Senior kenshi usually talk to them and invite them to come try the class next time if they're interested, though they usually don't take up the offer.

As for as people who have joined the dojo and actively participated in several training sessions, I don't think we've ever had a problem with someone disobeying or disrespecting the rules or their fellow kenshi. I haven't been around for too long though, so there might be some stories I haven't heard about.

What kind of people would we prohibit from joining? I'm not too sure on that one. I haven't really thought about it before. Shorinji Kempo strives to create a better world by improving the individuals who live in it, and I don't really see how we'd do that by turning people away at the door. On the other hand, we couldn't have people who were always disruptive or dangerously violent in class, so I'm sure the line has to be drawn somewhere. I'm not a branch master though, so I'm not exactly sure how things like that get dealt with.

[Tripitaka of AA]

OK Dominik. I'll give an answer that I think may give a general answer from the Shorinji Kempo perspective. Note, however, that I do not speak for the organisation and hold no office (or even current membership).

Each Branch of Shorinji Kempo is run by its Branch Master (Shibu-cho) and they are free to select or reject prospective members as they see fit. Hard and fast rules are difficult to apply across a worldwide organisation (32 countries), on different continents with widely different environments. The decision on whether to accept someone with a troubled past, or someone with conflicting interests, or someone whose physical condition may require special consideration... is not something to be legislated at organisation-wide, or even federation-wide level. Local rules may apply, or it may be down to each individual and each decision, one at a time.

Shorinji Kempo is proud of its history and Kenshi are required to learn about the Founder as part of the syllabus. Given the provisos mentioned above, the example set by Kaiso includes many examples that suggest an "inclusive" policy and not an "exclusive". Many of the very earliest Kenshi were drawn, in the post-war chaos in Japan, from the very gangs which Kaiso chased away from the town. One of the most popular figures at national demonstrations in the 80s was a high-graded Kenshi who had had one arm severed at the elbow (Kaiso had given him special tuition to help him overcome the more obvious limitations in a striking and wrist-locking art). The principles of Kongo Zen (the philosophy that Shorinji kempo is based on), support the notion that people can improve themselves and the lives of those around them - it stands to reason that people are going to setting off on their journey from a place not all that close to Perfection.

Not every Branch Master will have Kaiso's courage, tolerance or flexibility. Not every Branch Master will be ready to compromise the quality of training offered to the rest of the class in order to accommodate students that present special needs. I suspect, however, that the philosophical background of Shorinji Kempo will in most cases make it more open than other similar Budo styles.

Dominik. Did you have an experience that you wish to share? Are you asking this of other Arts too?

[kmtsd]

In general we try to avoid "gypsy" martial artists... those are students who seem to jump from school to school or one style to the next... they are bad for morale because they often boast of what "other" schools/styles/teachers do-that decreases enthusiasm of new impressionable students. we tell them to go back to their old school.
We also try to avoid criminals and child molesters...

[Tripitaka of AA]

We also try to avoid criminals and child molesters...

Which is a whole different thread (for the general forum perhaps); How do you know that they are criminals, molesters, etc? Do you think you can spot a child molester? What access do you have to criminal records? Which crimes do you consider relevant, fraud, assault, parking? Do you consider that a leopard can change its spots, is there such a thing as rehabilitation of offenders?

[Andrew Green]

I've never stopped anyone from joining, and only had to toss one out in the past 5 years, and it was a pretty extreme case...

I guess when it comes to starting I'm willing to let anyone that wants to try it the chance, as long as they follow the rules and don't cause too many problems they stay. Generally when someone doesn't fit they leave on there own pretty quickly.

[tony_leith]

The only difficulty I've been presented with thus far was somebody who came along to my non uni classes openly just to pick up some juho waza. He wasn't interested in grading, and it became evident that he was continuing to train in what he regarded as his main style..

Before this was apparent I had accepted his provisional membership (5 pounds which covers insurance for new members for their first month). On the basis that it would have seemed unfair to not give him the opportunity to try Shorinjikempo for the first month, I was prepared to let things ride -but at the end of that month I would have insisted on him taking full membership in our organisations, and working towards gradings (in the full expectation that he wouldn't be willing to do either).

Shorinjikempo is a syllabus based sysytem, and it wouldn't be fair to people in class actually working towards gradings to have others just trying to 'cherry pick' techniques, to say nothing of what it would probably imply in terms of commitment to the ethos of our training.

As it happened, after a couple of weeks he just didn't come back, so I was spared actually having to exclude anyone. Horses for courses, maybe?

Tony Leith

[AndrewSimonsen]

Which is a whole different thread (for the general forum perhaps); How do you know that they are criminals, molesters, etc? Do you think you can spot a child molester? What access do you have to criminal records? Which crimes do you consider relevant, fraud, assault, parking? Do you consider that a leopard can change its spots, is there such a thing as rehabilitation of offenders?
Every state has a DB with all sex offenders, their is also a national list. ask for ID and check.

[Colin Linz]

Every state has a DB with all sex offenders, their is also a national list. ask for ID and check.
I guess it depends on where you live. I don’t know about the UK, but in Australia I don’t believe this information is freely available. When they release them they try not to let the general public know who they are. They just quietly move into a community with the authorities only notifying the local Police. Every so often one will be uncovered and neighbourhood action forces the authorities to move them somewhere else.

[Tuna]

I suspect, however, that the philosophical background of Shorinji Kempo will in most cases make it more open than other similar Budo styles.

that was one intention to ask it in this forum, but i am not shure if it is true. :confused:
so it is interesting what people from other MA think about it.