Taekwondo organizations/certification

[fourdigger]

I have read almost every available thread on organizations and associations.I have searched the we to its very end and I am still lost . I no longer have the availabilty of a instructor or higher dan who can help me continue on my journey in TKD here in utah.WHen I have approcahed instructors and schools(at least 100miles away) it seems they want me to begin at the begining of TKD. Being acertified 2nd dan I can sift thru the line of bull and dance and I know when talking to them when it is marketing or genuine. Most of the time its about $$$$$.My dreams are to learn all i can in martial arts and continue to teach.I learned along time ago that a good reputation is better than any certificate in the community but I am still seeking a organization to help me advance mentally and also in rank certification.
If anyone has a good suggestion please...please.. let me know!
Thanks Kevin Jerman
www.bmatkd.com
:karate:

[Bad Karma]

Whoa! You're a certified 2nd and they want you start over again? What organization certified you to begin with?

Peace

[fourdigger]

Actually I am Kukkiwan certified

[Eliz]

Other Kukkiwan schools should accept your ranking.

It goes without saying that you should be allowed in any TKD school as a 2nd Dan - HOWEVER, that does not mean you will be proficient in that particular schools curriculum. Many schools have little changes here and there in forms, self defense, etc. - it may very well be you will find yourself with the white belts learning the curriculum. You shouldn't have a problem with that. As you said, you want to learn as much as you can.

On the flip side of things. Our school brings in a lot of adult transfer students. Most make the choice (on their own) to begin classes wearing a white belt. Eventually, as they become more comfortable with the classes and other students, they will show up wearing their highest earned rank.

[fourdigger]

Its not the school or curriculum that I am worried about but being part of a system that will be there for me and back up what I teach ,otherwise I am a lone ranger.....:(

[fourdigger]

P.S. Being kukkiwan certified was one step to being certified now I need the organization for backup...:(

[Eliz]

I'm not completely following you. You need the organization to back you up??? Where? And for what purpose? I'm getting the idea that you want to stroll in the door as a 2nd Dan instructor. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Shorin-Ryu Sensei]

I understand this problem well. I happen to run a "Lone Ranger" school because the organisations in Matsubayashi Shorin-ryu are far too POLITICAL. Each org wants its own curriculum taught, and quite frankly, I prefer to teach my own with my own ranking system. Overall this doesn't cause much of a problem except in one area ....... my own rank advancement. In the case my old instructor, he's almost 1500 miles from me and has his own curriculum that doesn't match mine and also has incorporated new material in the 16 years since I last tested with him that I'll never learn. On the up side ..... of the nearly 100 black belts he has promoted in over 30 years, I'm one of the 3 he has given permission to promote their own students. So I guess it all washes out in the end.

[fourdigger]

Ed thanks for recognizing my problem, sorry elizabeth if I wasnt clear on it.Like ED said is that for my own rank advancement I have no options unless I start over which I feel I should not have to do especially with my knowledge. I continue to provide kids with a great school and teach as much as I can but sooner or later one of my students will catch up with me and where will I be unable to provide them more in regards to my training. so thanks so much for reading this forum....kevin jerman

[Bad Karma]

You have two options, pay them a visit (road trip) or have them visit you (seminar). "Them" being someone that help progress your advancement in chosen system within chosen organization. I'm a little surprised that you don't have access to someone at HQ's or able to find someone on the Internet to assist.

Peace

[Shorin-Ryu Sensei]

In my case the road trip and seminar options aren't enough for advancement. My instructor changes his curriculum slightly every few months, i.e., when someone learns a new kobudo kata, it gets added to the testing requirements. And since I only get up there 2 or 3 times a year, things change faster than I can adapt. Also, the curriculum I teach doesn't correspond to any Matsubayashi org that I know of. (I no longer teach any of the Pinan kata, the first 2 Naihanchi, Wankan, or Kusanku .. and I do know every org requires those.)

[fourdigger]

I havent visited budoseek for neerly two months ,and I see not many more replies to my thread. I did notice in the latest issue of TKD times that there was a article about kukkiwon certificates and the costs and many students not receiving what they pay for . Iguess I dont feel so bad with my instructors turning me to the way side. I guess all th ehype about teaching morales and ethics in MA's in a gimic more than truth! :mad:

[Sabuhm]

Mr. Jarman,

I can understand much of what you are going through and feeling. When I first began studying "Taekwondo" in the mid 70s, My instructor was one of the more outstanding American instructors I have ever met. However, we were in the ATA (American Taekwondo Association) which was independant and did not use Kukkiwon certification. Of course, for those who do not know, "Kukkiwon" is the Korean term for "National Institution" or "National Academy." It is also known as the "World Headquarters" because it is the building located in Seoul, South Korea where the headquarters offices for the K.T.A. (Korea Taekwondo Association), the W.T.F. (World Taekwondo Federation), and the Korean Olympic Committee are located along with a large arena for training and tournaments.

I joined the ATA when a Grandmaster Kang was the President, and the late Grandmaster Haeng Ung Lee was an 8th Dan, and Vice-president. I came to know Grandmaster Lee over the years and had several personal one-on-one talks with him. After leaving the A.T.A. as a 2nd Dan in 1981, I was able to train and promote to 3rd and 4th Dan through various Taekwondo Masters that I met over the next few years. My original instructor had moved out of state while I was in the Army, and when I returned home, I had no leadership available. What was nearby, was not of the quality, nor integrity that I was seeking, so I began teaching on my own as a 4th Dan.

In 1985, I met with a Korean who was a Jidokwan instructor, and certified W.T.F. This Korean checked my background training, and certified me at 4th Dan. For the next fifteen years I worked hard to learn as much as I could. I became certified as an olympic coach and class A-1 referee, and at one tournament, I saw my original instructor who had transfered to the W.T.F. He said that, even though he earned his 1st Dan in Korea when he was in the Army, everything he had up to 6th Dan had no status at Kukkiwon. He had to re-certify. He told me to make sure I got at least the 1st Dan from Kukkiwon, because that is world wide recognition that can never be taken away.

In 1995 I was promoted to 5th Dan, and paid for Kukkiwon certification. In 1996, I visited South Korea, and the Kukkiwon building. I met, and trained with many top ranking Korean Grandmasters. I later discovered that the Korean I was training with, although certified W.T.F. (Kukkiwon) himself, had not submitted Kukkiwon certification for many of his Black Belts, including me. I was fortunate enough to meet up with my original instructor again in 2000. He was teaching in Alabama and is now an 8th Dan with the U.S. Chung Do Kwan Associaton under Sr. Grandmaster Edward B. Sell (First non-Korean to attain the Kukkiwon 9th Dan). I knew Grandmaster Sell in the 1970s when he was a 6th Dan in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Now, I am a 6th Dan with the U.S. Chung Do Kwan, but I have to re-certify all of my Dan ranks with the Kukkiwon. It is a long drawn out (and often expensive) process, but I believe it is worth it. My instructor travels from Alabama to Michigan about once a month to train me, and other Black Belts under my supervision. I have to also travel to attend instructor seminars with the U.S.C.D.K.A. This is the process of higher education in Taekwondo, and if you do not want your students to reach a "cap" in their training as you have, you need a higher level connection, but one that is both legit, and honest. Sr. Grandmaster Sell is a stickler for ensuring a secure paper trail of proper certification to prove an individual's background to whatever rank they hold, but he is also very helpful and supportive of making sure the certification and training is available to everyone who wants to work for it.

I hope you find what you are seeking, and don't become discouraged by the "bad apples" you encounter along the way. An education in the Martial Art is the most important focus, and proper credentials and certification will help to prove that you attained it over the imposters that will follow in your wake.

If I can be of further assistance, let me know. I have access to many resources and have met many legit Grandmasters across the country.

Respectfully, :bow:
Sabuhm
James Jerome
Taekwondo Yuk Dan

[DragonMind]

I havent visited budoseek for neerly two months ,and I see not many more replies to my thread. I did notice in the latest issue of TKD times that there was a article about kukkiwon certificates and the costs and many students not receiving what they pay for . Iguess I dont feel so bad with my instructors turning me to the way side. I guess all th ehype about teaching morales and ethics in MA's in a gimic more than truth! :mad:
There has been a lot of fraud and corruption in the Korean organizations over the last several years -- to the point of jail sentences. Some folks benefit, many are cheated. The reason you haven't gotten much response is that what you want is a contradiction: a KMA organization that will cater to your needs over making a buck. The "official" Korean organizations are more concerned with protecting their Olympic franchise than with your advancement. ITF, WTF, ATA, USTA, and a host of others have always been about collecting fees, not what's best for students. Maybe it is time for you to start down a new path in your MA career. One that doesn't require ridiculous fees, constantly shifting rules and allegiances, and a sensible curriculum for all ranks.

[fourdigger]

Everyone has posted some outstanding advice and I thankyou for it,yet I am still in the same predictment as I was a year ago.I do have a friend who is helping me out with some more advanced training but his hands are tied as far as certification. I did join the AAU for the tournament connection ,other than that I have learned there is a lot of scandal and deceipt in the world of KMA. WHY? Are we not suppose to be teaching some greater values ,like HONESTY!
Again thanks everyone for your response any help would be appreciated
Kevin.

[DragonMind]

Kevi, contact Master Julian Lim (jlim@jlim.net). He may be able to help you out. Some people like him and some hate him. I've never had any problems with him and he has always been honest with me. It's a lead for you for whatever it's worth.

[fourdigger]

Thanks for the input,anyone else has any please go ahead and tell me all leads are helpful.
Thanx KJ