kickboxing or Kung fu

[dlbrad]

Heya BudoSeek! I have the choice of going kick boxing or kung fu. But i have no idea which to chose, i am leaning towards kb. Also, Muay Thai has always been at the back of the mind at what i want to do, Would it be better to go for a bit in kb then transition into mt? And which is better street wise?

Thanks!
Joel :up:

[WhiteBeltJones]

That's a weird question to ask. I mean, what are you looking to get out of your study?

"Street-wise" (what a loaded term), I'd lean towards MT preparing you more for actual fights, just due to the grueling physical conditioning it'll put you through. But for real-world self-defense, I think there are other fighting systems that are better geared to keeping you alive.

But I think you need to give more data here.

[poetic misjustice]

well i've trained in both and i'd say kung fu all the way, not only does it give a gruelling workout but it works stance, rhythm, speed and grace all with strength, i also find it to be one of the most effective MA's on the streets as not only is it diverse but it's disceptive as well, so for example you're in crane stance (one of my personal favorites) then the random thug on the street's gonna think you a puff 9 times out of ten, and they charge straight at you, and crane is perfect for that with its curving motions and quick dehabilitating attacks to the throat eyes face solar plexus etc, whereas MT is leaned more along the lines of beat the opponennent to a senseless pulp, it all depends on your style...kung fu avoids pain, wheras MT takes it

also shouldn't this be in the general martial arts board?

[dlbrad]

Thats also what i was about to ask, does kung fu have the same cardio/physical workout and kb?

And whats MT again? :wink2: :laugh:

[poetic misjustice]

no, very different, MT has more generic push ups, pull ups, sit ups etc.etc. you know general stuff that'll work but isn't greatly origonal, but kung fu uses alot more modified exercises, lotus press ups one legged squats etc.

[shevbo]

I would just go for the straight and simple approach and do kickboxing.

Kung Fu is not as street as kboxing and involves all those stances which can get confusing. You have to practice the art for some time until you get good at using it.

Its all well and good having original exercises but is there really a need?


you know general stuff that'll work is what I am working with.
-----------

A major factor which made me pick kickboxing over another martial art such as kung fu is because in kickboxing you do it for yourself rather than the art. It builds on the individual rather than on the group. From my personal experience that is :P

And what is more practical?

Would you really want to use the crane stance when someone is coming at you? Or would you just stand at a boxers 45 degree stance?

In my kickboxing classes I also learn various parts of other martial arts such as Jiu-Jitsu and MT. So for me its the perfect package.

----

This is the kind of stances you would be doing... (link)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wahlum.com/sifugeorgekee/images/Dsc00080.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.wahlum.com/sifugeorgekee/kungfuhandforms_ph.html&h=216&w=288&sz=14&tbnid=_NPaP7zh9qQJ:&tbnh=82&tbnw=110&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkung%2Bfu%2Bstances%26svnum%3D10%26hl %3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DDVXA,DVXA:2005-18,DVXA:en%26sa%3DN

Not very practical :P

[poetic misjustice]

kickboxing isn't really versatile enough for me, like in kung fu i do shaolin seven fist which is basically chut sik with seven sub-systems and i have been doing it all my life and i've found it's easier to personalise, there are so many stances to choose from and you can mix and match like i use a cross between eagle and crane with a twist of mantis thrown in and it works great on the streets

[Good advisor]

Pick which suits to your style, if you lern to fight somone using gunfu techniques then take it up, if its more kickboxing techniques then take it up, lern how to defeat someone real quick...

but for me taking up kickboxing is a good idea your'll get very fit from it you'll lern some boxings and kicking techniques aswell. And I don't know jack about gunfu...so its up to you in the SAS they advice people when confronted by somone stand in a boxer stanced and prepare to fight.

[Stauds]

I would say kickboxing/muay thai would be the best "street wise". Especially Muay Thai since you learn how to take a hit, which is one of the most important things in a real fight. I like my school because it is a mix of kickboxing, muay thai, kung fu, ju jitsu, and karate, which gives us a very well rounded education in MA.

Kung fu would be a very interesting style though, which is something to consider.

[Sgathak]

Kickboxing? Kung Fu?

Just split the difference and learn Sanda/San Shou..... Chinese Kickboxing. All the fun of Muay Thai, with throws to dump em on their head.

[Jeff Burger]

"All the fun of Muay Thai, with throws to dump em on their head."

:D :D :D

Jeff

[poetic misjustice]

I would say kickboxing/muay thai would be the best "street wise". .
i disagree, kung fu is fantastic street wise, it's deceptive, and quick, and there are systems like tiger claw that actually use almost the same stance but different moves, but again it's up to the MAist isn't it? but i did always prefer my kung fu to KB

[Stauds]

i disagree, kung fu is fantastic street wise, it's deceptive, and quick, and there are systems like tiger claw that actually use almost the same stance but different moves, but again it's up to the MAist isn't it? but i did always prefer my kung fu to KB
I agree that it is up to the MAist.

But, I basically meant, if you were to spend under one year in each, I am guessing muay thai would best prepare the average person for a fight. A few years? Then of course it would be up to the MAist. And, personally, I would be a little unsure of myself if I got in a fight and the person went into a KF stance versus a boxing one.

[Teng]

I would have to also go with Muay Thai...Thats jsut me but my opinion is if your in it for fighting go Muay Thai and if you want the art go for Kung Fu. Muay Thai is also easier to learn and it dosnt branch out as much as Kung Fu.Maybe take Muay Thai for a year and ounce you know alot of the techniques try something new. Also if you want to see how kick-*** muay thai is and want to see it in action watch Ong-Bak.You can always try something new and going one or the other wont hurt, theyll both help you build your skill just in different ways. Good luck

[Thai boxing badger]

Muay thai! Because of the more physical side to the techniques

[AhmedT]

Muay thai, because its the best street fighting tool, no matter what people say. It uses pretty much every part of your bones, knees, elbows, knuckles, shins, ball/heel of feet. The best think i like about it, is that it makes you use your shins, which is very good since, in a real fight, if you you get hit in the shin and can't take it, you will be all over the ground..and like some others said, it teaches you how to take a hit as well..

kungfu is all about style and i dont know about you guys, but living in australia, i haven't really heard of any good original kungfu dojos. As i suspect the real kungfu techniques are locked and hidden in asian countries like china unfortunately

[gr455h0pp3r]

gung fu can have the same cadio/physical workout - just join a gym.

Mr.Burger is more knowledgeable about this and he only smiled a few times..

Also what big Kurt says - more data pls..

ahmedT i suggest you give yourself a chance to see gung fu less critically. I dont know where you have looked, who you seem to have been sucked in by but there is plenty of legit kung fu all over australia..
There are no gung fu "dojos", thats japanese and the japanese generally arent known for their gung fu.

[gr455h0pp3r]

As i suspect the real kungfu techniques are locked and hidden in asian countries like china unfortunately

your... serious ?

[AhmedT]

well its true that i've limited knowledge of kungfu dojos in australia, but if you could tell me a few in sydney i would be greatful, as it interests me.

About the comment about Kung fu techniques being secretly shared by asians only, it does have some truth behind it. Lots of sacred techniques have been either rejected or haven't been shared with westerners. This is not only said by Bruce lee but many other martial artists.

[gr455h0pp3r]

weather or not I believe that is another story.
The system of Wing Chun I train in has no secrets, everything worth knowing is taught.
About kung fu in sydney, just go to www.google.com and search away. If you have any questions about the school your welcome to ask here.
Good Luck.

[poetic misjustice]

i've been training in chut sik almost all my life, and training in kickboxing in not alot less and i'd have to say kung fu gives me the best workout outta the three martial arts i train in, we also stretch alot more so it improves flexibilty far better, and we do learn to take a hit in kung fu, we just try not to get hit too often

[injunwil]

the solution is simple - both :)

i took (very little) JKD, before going into MT. some of the things i learned, there, i still carry with me - i pendulum with my foot work as much as i "step an drag", now and i find myself stepping heel to toe with my lead foot alot.

i have every intention of going back to JKD, i think it's amazing. i absolutely love it and believe Bruce had alot of good concepts. but i wanna spend alot of time in MT, first. my plan is to bring my stamina, pain tolerance, and striking ability up then put a little refinement on my game with JKD.

but what you should do, if yer wanting skills that apply to real fights, is go to www.comegetyousome.com and watch alot of fight videos. there's hundreds of them there. and think about which arts would apply in the situations you see unfold.

[khujo78]

If you don't have the money to take both, I would say MT. The workouts are similar in intensity, no doubt, but kung fu focuses alot more on technique while mt focuses more on actual confrontation and the exchange of blows. Not alot of kung fu focuses on confrontation and it would be hard to practice 'monkey grabs cherry' (an actual technique, guess what you grab) on a willing participant. When I practiced kung fu, I did feel alot more confident about my abilities, but I would have been sadly mistaken if that was my only form of self defense. We did spar, but it was so far from the actual kung fu we learned that I wondered where we would be able to use all that other stuff we learned. It actually looked alot like kickboxing.
Muay thai (or any martial art for that matter) can't put you in a 'real' situation but it gets really close to it due to the use of knees, elbows, clinching, etc...basically alot of stuff that could be used in a real fight. Kung fu introduces these strikes but in a different way. Kung fu practices alot of stationary strikes and techniques based on coreographed attacks, which would suck unless you can pull from the dozens of techniques they teach you within seconds. Kung fu is good in the looong run, but for knowing something to use soon, MT is the way to go.

Nonetheless, its up to you. If you don't plan on getting into any fights soon, it doesn't matter too much. And who knows, 'leopard creeping over hill' may actually work in the right situation.

[Infrazael]

Eh. . . . wierd question.

I train in both Choy Lay Fut and Muay Thai/Western Boxing. . . .

First you have to ask what Kung Fu system. Stuff like Shaolin Kempo, Temple Kung Fu, etc, etc. . . . and the thousands of half-assed, watered-down money-making McDojos will most likely outnumber the legit Kung Fu school many times over.

Thus, purely for safety and probability reasons I suggest the Muay Thai school. But if you can find a good Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Praying Mantis or some other authentic, old school and hardcore Kung Fu system, I suggest you try it out of your intent is solely FOR THE STREET.

Muay Thai is also very very effective, but lacks some of the more "inherently cruel" techniques traditional Kung Fu FORCES you to train in. . . . ie, the very mentality of Tiger Clawing someone in the face.

However, most Muay Thai gyms offer such good training that you'll be a hard-assed fighter in no time.

So I suggest you take a look around your area for a LEGIT Kung Fu school, and also a Muay Thai/MMA school. Or be like me and do both.

[Grei]

If at all possible I'd definately say go for both, I would totally get into Muay Thai as well as my Kung Fu if I could just find a place, or even just Kung Fu and american kickboxing. I think Kung Fu is probably more comprehensive for self defense if you get into it, and has much more stylistic range, but it also probably has a lot slower learning curve to it. I think a major factor in your decision should be how long you have to put into it before you want to be functional.

For instance, my kung fu school does have full contact sparring (and I know some don't), the think is they don't let you in on it for... on average about a year. Of course, I don't know how that would compare to kickboxing... but in Judo they stuck me in randori the first night. I imagine the kickboxings would be somewhere between there.

[John Lucas]

...and crane is perfect for that with its curving motions and quick dehabilitating attacks to the throat, eyes, face, and solar plexus...kung fu avoids pain, wheras MT takes it...


Isnt that a little ironic?

[TogaAssassin]

going back to how people where saying that the "secrets" of Gung Fu are not taught to westerners....

I think that in a way this is true. Traditional Gung Fu training is going to involve a lot of forms stationary training, stretching etc. The real combat art is "hidden" in these dances. Whether your Sifu can correctly extract the attack from the dance is the question. My little brother has been doing Gung Fu as long as I have been studying martial arts as a whole (seriously that is for about 2 1/2 years now). Some of his forms are a thing of beauty, having said that he's never even been able to hit me when we spar. His Sifu simply does no teach (or perhaps does not know) the correct real world combat usage of the attacks his forms are giving him. The result is someone with wonderfully formed and postured strikes that has no idea how to use them.

Getting back on topic =P Personally I think you would be better served with MT. Gung Fu is awesome, however it requires serious dedication and time spent before it is effective in a real combat situation. MT however will have you ready for you standard bar brawl in a few months.

[poetic misjustice]

in a drunken bar brawl you're better off using drunken fist :D

[gr455h0pp3r]

While I think its good to be equipped for such issues. I dont think you should really think about bar fights when it comes to what martial art you should do.
Just check out whatever you interested in and go from there. I train not to fight, and I ultimatley wish to resolve conflicts with as little damage caused to my opponent as possible. Someone who is untrained can be very dangerous, fighting is dangerous. You might walk away unscathed with a couple of Red Knuckles and few scratches, on the other hand, you could very well end up dead, or in Prison. So before you go thinking about "bar fights" and "drunken fist" (which I think sounds rediculous). Think about discipline, health and wellbeing, think about why your fighting in the first place.

[Yang Wei Xin]

Not alot of kung fu focuses on confrontation and it would be hard to practice 'monkey grabs cherry' (an actual technique, guess what you grab) on a willing participant.
.

We have this move in praying mantis, but we translate it as "white ape steals peach", we practice grabbing the inside of the thigh, rather than actually taking the peach. There is also a "praying mantis steals peach", but the peach referred to in that technique is your trachea.

We actually do focus on the practice and application of these moves, altho I know some schools do not.

[poetic misjustice]

While I think its good to be equipped for such issues. I dont think you should really think about bar fights when it comes to what martial art you should do.
Just check out whatever you interested in and go from there. I train not to fight, and I ultimatley wish to resolve conflicts with as little damage caused to my opponent as possible. Someone who is untrained can be very dangerous, fighting is dangerous. You might walk away unscathed with a couple of Red Knuckles and few scratches, on the other hand, you could very well end up dead, or in Prison. So before you go thinking about "bar fights" and "drunken fist" (which I think sounds rediculous). Think about discipline, health and wellbeing, think about why your fighting in the first place.

But remember you don't actually HAVE to be drunk whilst fighting, it's just helpful, drunken fist is more about the swaying stance than the actuality of killing your liver...besides it was just a joke.

[comanighttrain]

yeah do muay thai...it owns other standup arts.

[Steel]

I read the response from khujo78 and wondered what sort of school it was in which he trained. Besides that, his reasoning of MT being better purely because you are more readily able to practice more of their techniques on a willing opponant raised an eyebrow... I suppose people at shooting ranges are wasting their time too. No disrespect to you, khujo78, but I do differ in opinion.
My opinion on the subject is similar to Infrazael, although I would say a good kung fu school would be more worth while as an actual means of self-defense or "real" fighting. Granted, one wouldn't look as beautifully as a choreographed movie in a real fight, but at least one would be trained and conditioned (hopefully!) to react properly.
Now, I mean no disrespect to MT students, but it has been my experience in all the schools I have visited that they train for actual matches or bouts. Would a western boxer do well in a real fight? Sure. Would a MT boxer do well in a real fight? Of course, besides, they condition the hell out of themselves, but they train for matches more so than actual fights. Such has been my experience, anyway. "Boxing" is a sport...

[batosa]

I do sanda which is similar to kickboxing and let me tell you that you will not regret it.