View Full Version : Conspiracy theory#1: Your printer is a spy.
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 03:39
You computer is a secret spy working on behalf of the Government.
Here is the story:
Secret tracking codes in Xerox printers cracked
October 18, 2005 10:55 AM PDT
When last we wrote about the Electronic Frontier Foundation's attempts to decipher the hidden watermarks in color laser printers, the group had identified that some miniscule yellow tracking dots appeared under blue light.
Now the intrepid civil liberties group says it has cracked the tracking codes used in Xerox printers. (Other codes appear in printouts from machines by manufacturers such as Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark.)
While no law appears to require the manufacturers to embed the hidden dots -- which encode the printer's serial number and time and date information -- they nevertheless do it voluntarily as a way to help the Secret Service reduce counterfeiting.
In a Xerox DocuColor printout, for instance, a rectangular grid of 15 by 8 tracking dots are printed on every color page. Blue light and a magnifying glass makes them visible. EFF has even made source code of a Xerox decoding program available.
It's one thing to detect counterfeit dollar bills. But the hidden dots may erode Americans' right to anonymity by making it more difficult to print out political or religious pamphlets anonymously.
"It shows how the government and private industry make backroom deals to weaken our privacy by compromising everyday equipment like printers," said EFF Senior Staff Attorney Lee Tien. "The logical next question is: what other deals have been or are being made to ensure that our technology rats on us?"
That's a very good question. Adobe does a similar thing in Photoshop CS (http://news.com.com/Adobe%2C+others+slip+anticounterfeiting+code+into+ apps/2100-1012_3-5138816.html?tag=nl), for instance.
Posted by Declan McCullagh
Cnetnews.com (http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-5899905.html)
Anyone for pen and paper?
Bah. What right to privacy? There's nothing specific in the constitution... at least as far as I know...
Only thing that backs it up is decades of court precedent... which is stupid anyways.
Plus it could help greatly with some crimes... threat/ransom letters for instance. All sorts of things.
If you have nothing to hide... why worry?
But I'll shut up now... because it's a tender subject and can quickly get political...
I have my doubts on that anyways... you'd need the right kind of ink, and there are noname brand ink cartridges... not to mention it's not too difficult to fill your own.
And there's also cool printers like mine that melt waxy ink blocks to print onto the paper... which you can get from a variety of sources and you have to insert manually, and individually. (so you have to be carefull not to accidentally put red in the black slot or something. X_x
...unless tis was a joke, which is fairly likely... which merely proves I need to start going to bed before 2am.
hizaguchi
10-19-2005, 08:29
It doesn't bother me that my printer might have a signature. What does bother me is that the people responsible for it didn't tell me it was there. I accept that a consequence of being part of society is that my privacy will occasionally be invaded. I just like to know when it is happening.
Andrew Green
10-19-2005, 08:57
This only applies to color laser printers, the kind that could be used to counterfit and forge important things.
It's been known about for a while, but only deciphered by the EFF recently.
My printer just plain HATES me. I'd love to know how they encrypted, "Get on her every last nerve whenever possible."
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 09:41
Also Adobe Photoshop seems to have stopped the rise of counterfiet money some time ago.
http://news.com.com/Adobe%2C+others+slip+anticounterfeiting+code+into+ apps/2100-1012_3-5138816.html?tag=nl
James O'Neill
10-19-2005, 09:41
Your right to privacy exists but as an 'endangered species': http://www.privacy.gov.au/privacy_rights/
The blaise attitude of most US citizens towards their rights never ceases to amaze me... As does the lack of "critical thinking". It is no wonder that our propaganda machines enjoy so much success in this country. Most people are total sheep when it comes to questioning authority and / or defending their "Rights" :(
To me this is very sad.
TCBA_Joe
10-19-2005, 10:24
Also Adobe Photoshop seems to have stopped the rise of counterfiet money some time ago.
http://news.com.com/Adobe%2C+others+slip+anticounterfeiting+code+into+ apps/2100-1012_3-5138816.html?tag=nl
i dont think thats true, i have the latest photoshop, and i've opened up several pictures of $20 bills
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 10:51
I think the Photoshop story covers the CS version regarding the money thing. Which one do you have as that story is from last year.
hizaguchi
10-19-2005, 11:07
Just a thought, but if there are several dots somewhere on a piece of paper, how does that stop counterfeiting? Unless you're printing $20 bills the size of a whole sheet of paper, couldn't you just not use the ones that the dots printed on?
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 11:13
I suppose with every image printed onto a piece of paper, there will be these dots. the white borders plus the image placement onto the paper using software could replicate the dots with every picture it prints.
So if you take 6 notes to one side of paper, and as the computer has replicated the image 6 times, the machine could print these dots on every note you produce.
Bah. What right to privacy? There's nothing specific in the constitution... at least as far as I know...
Only thing that backs it up is decades of court precedent... which is stupid anyways.
If you have nothing to hide... why worry?
Son, time to go to college and learn some stuff.
bvermillion
10-19-2005, 12:46
You computer is a secret spy working on behalf of the Government.
Here is the story:
Cnetnews.com (http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-5899905.html)
Anyone for pen and paper?
Sounds like another chain email. How many people do I have forward it to, to keep from being spyed on?
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 13:02
It is not a chain email. It is from Cnet and was recently written.
BTW, did you actually click on the link to see if it is a hoax email?
Also Adobe Photoshop seems to have stopped the rise of counterfiet money some time ago.
LOVE THE GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/)
Son, time to go to college and learn some stuff.
Or at least turn off the MTV, take a walk outside, and have a look-see at the real world.
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 13:07
Or at least turn off the MTV, take a walk outside, and have a look-see at the real world.
Erik lives in CA. Reality starts at the state line.
bvermillion
10-19-2005, 13:23
It is not a chain email. It is from Cnet and was recently written.
BTW, did you actually click on the link to see if it is a hoax email?
I was just joking.
Son, time to go to college and learn some stuff.
That was somthing I learned in college...
I'm never trusting my instructors again... at least my english ones.
Which I probably shouldn't do anyways. :laugh:
But I mean, aside from personal information stuff like social security and credit card numbers, and the whole unlawfull seizure without a warrant stuff... but an ID code for which printer printed something doesn't fall under that...
(as for the use of the dots, I think it's more against the forging of other important documents that would be more full sheet than little things like bills... not that anything particular comes to mind, but I know someone did something like that over Bush during the elections... some newspaper or another... but I don't know much about that, I don't like politics.)
(Also I haven't watched MTV since I discovered they no longer play videos. Which didn't take long. :laugh: )
Erik lives in CA. Reality starts at the state line.
Going which direction?
The Nephilim
10-19-2005, 15:38
Going which direction?
Mostly in this direction ----->>
Son, time to go to college and learn some stuff.
Agreed...
The bill of rights was not created to limit our rights to those expressed in that document. Rather it was reflection of the times and recent history.
Thomas Jefferson along with many of the other founding fathers of the United States was against the creation of the bill of rights because of exactly the sentiment our original poster expressed. That being, that we are only guarenteed the rights expressly stated in the constitution. I may be wrong but I believe in his letter of dissent to the constitutional congress he called people who would believe that "fools"...
And with that, my knowledge of constitutional history is exhausted....My Step-Father is the history professor, not me so i'll shut up now... :o
Mostly in this direction ----->>
Smart arse... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Dave - I didn't mean to hammer you with my "time to go to college" quote. Now that I look at it again, at the end of the day, I should have put a :) , :D , :wink2: , or :laugh: with it.
I meant it, and I meant to tease you a little, but not in a mean way. Just so you know.
TCBA_Joe
10-19-2005, 22:48
I think the Photoshop story covers the CS version regarding the money thing. Which one do you have as that story is from last year.
I have cs 8. i dont think cs 9 was out by the time that came out, could be wrong...
Dave - I didn't mean to hammer you with my "time to go to college" quote. Now that I look at it again, at the end of the day, I should have put a :) , :D , :wink2: , or :laugh: with it.
I meant it, and I meant to tease you a little, but not in a mean way. Just so you know.
Oh... well thanks. In that case I don't need to feel bad about admitting how clueless I am. :laugh:
I still stand by my claim that a person who doesn't do anything wrong should have nothing to hide though... constitution or not. :bandit:
BGalehouse
10-20-2005, 09:42
I still stand by my claim that a person who doesn't do anything wrong should have nothing to hide though... constitution or not. :bandit:
The problem with this is the secondary effects. In general terms, a desire for privacy should not be an admission of guilt. More specifically, a political group may want to post banners or make flyers with a certain amount of anonymitiy, in the US or abroad. This allows the state, or anybody else who does some research to thwart their desire.
I hope this doesn't sound too political, but please note for reference that it isn't just terrorists affected by terrorism laws. http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2028602005 http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,68973,00.html
While it might not be literaly true that we are all hurt whenever liberties are removed, such removal can certainly be difficult to isolate. My point certainly isn't to slam terrorism laws, just to say that we have to include such effects when evaluating them. Similarly for printers that leave fingerprints.
I still stand by my claim that a person who doesn't do anything wrong should have nothing to hide though... constitution or not. :bandit:
The catch comes from when people are falsely accused (which happens frequently), peoples' desire for gossip and buying into rumors and accepting them as facts (so you're convicted in the court of public opinion, regardless of any facts), big bureaucracies (however that's spelled) simply screwing things up (which happens a lot) at the expense of someone, and of predators getting their hands on your info (ranging from ID theft to spam to way worse). Or screwball religious people (not the non-screwball religious ones - I want to differentiate) who believe that your doing such-and-such must not be allowed and therefore they take it upon themselves to monitor your life.
Privacy is the right to keep people who don't belong there off your back.
Ever been falsely accused of something by mom and dad? Imagine not having the chance to defend yourself because those who have unilaterally decided you are guilty are either 1) the annonymous masses and cannot be addressed directly or 2) a gov't bureaucracy who is beyond reproach and impossible to get to talk with or to get to fix something they've screwed up - at your expense.
That's the idea.
The Nephilim
10-20-2005, 11:36
Smart arse... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah I am :D :laugh:
<----- But I also could have said that way as well ---->
I still stand by my claim that a person who doesn't do anything wrong should have nothing to hide though... constitution or not. :bandit:
Just becuase people are not doing something the is illegal or immoral does not mean that they want people knowing all of their business either...
The biggest conspiracy has always been the fact that there is no conspiracy. Nobody's out to get you. Nobody gives a s**t whether you live or die. There, you feel better now? - Dennis Miller
John Lucas
10-20-2005, 19:49
I have opened it in CS 8 Illustrator as well. The thing is, I dont think it would really be possible for them to tell exactly what you are opening a picture of, I suppose there are specific things they could target like the seal or maybe the watermark, but I dont know how the technology would work to make that possible, as of right now, the magnetic lasso has a hard time seperating fine details, even on black backgrounds, how would it be possible for them to put a piece of code in the program that detects pictures of twenty dollar bills and make sure 100% that you dont limit your customers from doing what they need.
Adobe makes software that costs over $500 a program, and they have a repsonsibility to millions of graphic artists and other professionals who count on their programs to make a living, that it is not going to prevent them from working on the projects that they need to work on. I think if the community found out that Adobe was putting such code in its software that it would be their responsibility to inform those who buy their products before doing so, because they have a very big reputation at risk.
Just becuase people are not doing something the is illegal or immoral does not mean that they want people knowing all of their business either...
I totally agree. And also as John said I doubt there are any software able to "tell" you're counterfeiting money and not using it only for artistic purpose (e.g. artworks for your walls or else).
This story makes me think about Tom Cruise's movie "Minority Report"... Except we're not sent in jail before we commit a crime, but our privacy is, so it's almost the same!
Well I don't mean necessarily illegal or immoral things, but if you never do anything you would be ashamed of, does it really matter?
BGalehouse
10-24-2005, 15:46
Well I don't mean necessarily illegal or immoral things, but if you never do anything you would be ashamed of, does it really matter?
Exactly. And if you do anything to be ashamed of, the Ministry of Love will be there to help.
Seriously though, civil liberties aren't something to dismiss so flippantly. It is the little details in 1984 that should scare you. While it is a Zen idea to "act the same in private as in public", this sentiment is as much about a journey as a destination. Or at least, I haven't seen the end of that road.
Well I don't mean necessarily illegal or immoral things, but if you never do anything you would be ashamed of, does it really matter?
Well...At least to me it does matter because most of time it starts with "minor" measures and continues with major violations of privacy with time. Just look at the P2P phenomenon...
monikajane
10-30-2005, 00:07
Son, time to go to college and learn some stuff.
Hallelujah. Preach it, brother. :hippie:
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