How do I? What do I?

[shevbo]

I have been doing kickboxing for a number of years now and since I moved to university (about 3 weeks ago) I have taken up Judo. And I must say I have such a laugh :D

I can attack when I am the one on the matt but I am totally stuck on what to do when I am on top of someone (primarily in between their legs). All I know is to press on the side of their knees with my elbows so that they let go of me (kickboxing teacher taught me that :p and I thank him). But then I don't know what to do apart from an armbar.

If you can name the techniques I can dig up the info on them myself :)

Sorry but I am totally baffled on what to do when I am on top of a person.

ty

[Erik]

Ahhhh, welcome to the wonderful world of grappling!

You're in what we call "guard" in BJJ. There's another word for it in judo but it's in Japanese and I have no idea what it's called.

Notice that you have really weak options for striking from there. Also, your arm attacks and choke attacks are worthless against a non-new player. You NEED to get out of the guard because from that position you are probably loosing.

That guard pass (as we call it) you mention is good against beginners but with time people loose that sensitivity. You'll find yourself trying that and just sitting there, accomplishing nothing.

Plus, they can attack you from there:
Choke, armbars, slip arm to side and come around to your back (which is the worst position for you), kimura (another kind of armlock that hyper-rotates the shoulder), sweeps (now you're on your back and they're on top of you and not between your legs), oma plata (I'm sure there's a Japanese word for this, too), and so on.

So, your question is a little like a guy saying, "I've hit the bag once or twice. What do I do now?"

Welcome to the mat, Orest!

[shevbo]

"I've hit the bag once or twice. What do I do now?"

Agree with you there!

Its just that everyone else seems to be soo much more experienced than me.

But I suppose it will come with time...

...my mind is at rest now (sort of)

[Erik]

Don't worry, you'll get the hang.

Remember how it felt getting hit at first? You probably though, "Dang! These guys are soooooooo much stronger than I am!!!!" But soon you got used to it and learned the ropes (forgive the pun).

You'll do fine.

Make sure you learn a few guard passes. This is key.

[Rasputin]

That guard pass (as we call it) you mention is good against beginners but with time people loose that sensitivity. You'll find yourself trying that and just sitting there, accomplishing nothing.


You have to show me this in January, Erik. I have never met anyone who did not feel this one. Does it help that I use the sharp pointy part of my elbow?

[shevbo]

Does it help that I use the sharp pointy part of my elbow?

This is the only thing that I do know lol I push the sharp parts of the elbows in the sides of the opponents knees (hurts like hell).

[Abbax8]

Once you are out of the guard you can attack with Kesa-Gatame (Scarf Hold), Kata-Gatame (Shoulder Lock), Yoko-Shiho-Gatame (Locking of the Side , essentially a wrectling cradle), Kami-Shiho-Gatame (Upper-four quarters lock), Tate-Shiho-Gatame ,I forget the translation now, Ushiro-Kesa-Gatme (Rear Scarf Hold). These are immobilization holds in judo and they have many variations. You can also apply chokes, there are many, as well as various arm bars (Juji-Gatame, Hiza-Gatame, Ude-Garami, Ude-Gatame, etc.).

For illustrations of these holds check out The Judo Information Site.

Peace

Dennis

[Erik]

You have to show me this in January, Erik. I have never met anyone who did not feel this one. Does it help that I use the sharp pointy part of my elbow?
I'd have to bring some of the guys who are immune to my elbows. I haven't reached that point (forgive the pun) yet.

Though I must say that I am significantly more resistant to that pressure than when I started out a few years ago.

I assume we're talking about digging the elbows into the little space around the base of the small, inside quadracep, right? If so, then yes, people can learn to tolerate it. It's the darndest thing, but it works.

[Rasputin]

I assume we're talking about digging the elbows into the little space around the base of the small, inside quadracep, right?

Yes, the Saphenous nerve.

[Erik]

Isn't that nerve along the outside of the leg, though? The one the Thais are famous for kicking? The charlie horse spot?

Anyway, we're talking about the same technique, anyway. Too bad Cliff's not around at the moment. He'd describe this better.

Where's Tony?

[Rasputin]

Isn't that nerve along the outside of the leg, though? The one the Thais are famous for kicking? The charlie horse spot?

That is the common peroneal. Saphenous goes along the inside.

[Erik]

Ah, you're right.

Here are some sites if you're curious (I was), just for fun.

http://www.chirotx.com/posterior%20knee%20nerves.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wnor/antlegdorsalfoot.htm

http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus835.html

http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus832.html

http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/anatomy/atlasofanatomy/plate28/03skinmuscnerves.html
(#17 on this one).

[Tony Dismukes]

I have never met anyone who did not feel this one. Does it help that I use the sharp pointy part of my elbow?

Yeah, even the experienced folks will feel it. We've just learned to ignore it long enough to get a position that favors us.

The biggest thing in making almost any guard pass work is posture. If you can pin the person whose guard you are passing in place, while keeping your own posture solid, you've got your choice of passing methods.

[TroyRoget]

In pressure point terms, he could be talking about Ki-10 or Li-7,8,9, depending on which part of the inside of the knee is being attacked. I'll testify that it's quite possible to build up a resistance to that area, because I'm practically immune to those points when we've practiced them in class, with the exception perhaps of Li-9, which I do feel a bit.