View Full Version : What Does a Black Belt Mean Today
All right, guys, I was watching Stuck on You a few days ago and if you've seen the movie the brothers are out with a couple of girls at a club and one gets in a confrontation with someone one of the girls know. One of the things she says stuck to me. "Be careful, he's got a black belt." After hearing that I couldn't help but think that doesn't really mean much anymore. I mean, anyone can get a black belt from Century and say they're a black belt. We've all seen or heard of schools that just give black belts away. Of course, in the movie he doesn't exactly exemplify anyone I'd imagine having a black belt.
What do y'all think? Does saying you have a black belt mean much today?
Antares33
12-11-2005, 11:27
If anyone told me they were a black belt, I'd ask them in what? and learn a little more about the school and how long they trained before I really decided how legit it is. A black belt means what it means, but what really matters is the ability of the person.
Yes Jon, it means they are an idiot if they are going around telling people that.
Jeff Cook
Musubi Dojo
12-11-2005, 20:22
Yes Jon, it means they are an idiot if they are going around telling people that.
Jeff Cook
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Most of "respectable" black belts aren't likely to be found in an "agressive" situation or to start a fight.
So I'd say I won't be impressed because there's 90% of chances the black belt agressor is poorly skilled (if not technically, mentally). Plus adding a lot of martial artists "showing off" outdoor aren't more than "dojo fighters".
But just my opinion.
Oh and except if he tells me he's a Ninja black belt! :laugh:
"Be careful, he's got a black belt." After hearing that I couldn't help but think that doesn't really mean much anymore....What do y'all think? Does saying you have a black belt mean much today?
Kano Jigoro began the belt system as a marketing device and it remains that today.
Knowledgeable folk I know never ask if you have a bb. They want to know who you trained with, for how long, and--if obvious--with what intensity.
Yes Jon, it means they are an idiot if they are going around telling people that.
Jeff Cook
:laugh:
Agreed. Kinda like those people that have t-shirts that say they are a black belt, have the black belt keychain, and the black belt license plate frame. That just screams humility!!! I am pretty sure that goes along Jigaro Kano's original intention. :laugh:
TroyRoget
12-11-2005, 23:34
I was taught that you should keep the fact that you know martial arts almost secret. Basically, if you ask me I'll tell you I have a black belt, but I'll never volunteer the information.
Cliff Hargrave
12-12-2005, 07:19
:laugh:
Agreed. Kinda like those people that have t-shirts that say they are a black belt, have the black belt keychain, and the black belt license plate frame. That just screams humility!!! I am pretty sure that goes along Jigaro Kano's original intention. :laugh:
A black belt is nothing more than a belt that goes around your waist. Being a black belt is a state of mind and attitude.
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theres someone in my class, she doesn't come regularly, but she's been doing it for 14 years now (and shes my age!!) and now got a black belt. When she graded she hasnt trained for weeks and if shes there she never seriously trains. Yet she tells everyone what to do. In former times I thought a black belt is very very hard to get, you need to train an enormous amount of time and be very very into your martial arts. Shes just telling everyone about her black belt and that shes been doing it for sooo long. I mean how intensive can you train when you are four,six, or even ten??? Isnt it at that stage just playing around?? Now I would rather ask how intensive someone has trained for say the last years. And I hate it when people go around and show off with what they can do or have done and give advice to anyone who doesnt want it. All those people try to do is constantly keep up their self image, I think this shouldnt be necessary if they come to training and show that they're good.
I was taught privately for 10 years. There was never a need to wear
a colored belt until I started training with my Sensei's brother who
had a group near by. After the first class, I was asked by all the Sempai,
what rank I was. I told them to go talk to the head instructor's brother.
At the next class I was awarded a Shodan because, "the other students
might deveolp a complex".
All of the truely great teachers I have worked with never asked my rank.
I'm talking 5th through 10th Dan. I was always judged by what I knew
and could do.
Mr. Dave Lowery wrote a column in a recent BB magazine regarding this
topic. I suggest you might read it.
Kat,
I understand you might be looking for another school from another post.
FYI there's an organization you might want to stay away from. I was
informed of them by by mother-in-law in Limburgerhof, (an hour south
Frankfurt) and did some investigating. They're called Tako-ryu.
I contacted a couple of connections there and they told me that they
were shady at best. If you go to their web site, they don't even identify
any of their teachers.
Peace.
I was taught that you should keep the fact that you know martial arts almost secret. Basically, if you ask me I'll tell you I have a black belt, but I'll never volunteer the information.
I don't mind volunteering the information, though I don't make a huge deal out of it.
It means nothing. I wish everyone just wore white belts. It would reduce the number of people who do MA for their own ego. Only people genuinely interested in the MA would train.
lightninrod
12-12-2005, 22:48
A black belt nowadays means nothing. For many people it's bragging rights and nothing more. Really, my favorite thing for years was to hear from someone "I have a black belt in TKD!!!" (No offense to TKD folks. Although it's rare to see, I've been on the effective end of it.) Really, all that is anymore is a claim to fame. Better for learning purposes is someone who has a fairly low rank but has been at their art for a long time. They'll have more to teach you - by far.
Justin Mears
I think that a black belt means absolutly nothing...... to some one who did not put their blodd sweat and tears in to it. For some one who put their heart and soul into getting the belt well ten thats different
This subject came up on the eBudo ShorinjiKempo forum a few days ago: Here is a link that has a lot of good things to say:
http://judoinfo.com/bb.htm
I'm getting my blackbelt this summer. It signifies that I have been training for 3 years and am serious about it. I can't really think of anything more it stands for. I don't even think that a Shodan in ShorinjiKempo can really teach anything to Brownbelts or good Bluebelts, to be honest: they're too close in skill level (UK Belt system: White, Yellow, Green, Blue, Brown, Black). If you've been training for 5-6 years (ie 2nd Dan) then you probably have something to teach, but not before.
As for fighting prowess? Depends on the person as well as the MA. Blackbelt Jame could kick Whitebelt Jame's arse, certainly. Outside that I couldn't really say.
Blackbelts mean training time and dedication. That's what they were intended to mean (if the above article is true) and that's what they should mean.
Aaron T Fields
12-13-2005, 13:21
A black belt means the same thing it alwasy has, not much, except for to those in the same combative/combative sport as the originator of the ranks. Even then, it doesn't mean a lot. It has never been, nor ever will be standardized.
See judo history if you want to really get an idea of what it was intended for, public school PE class.
Aaron Fields
Seattle Jujutsu Club, Hatake Dojo
Sea-Town Sombo
www.seattle-jujutsu.org
kenpo123
12-13-2005, 15:23
It means they earned there black belt in whatever style they studied. Pending on the school and the way they earned it varries from school to school and individual skill wouldnt ya say?
Most schools consider and teach that a black belt is really just knowing the basics well, and the real study of the particular martial art is to begin from then on.
Even then, its mostly dependant on the student, I have seen black belts and then I have seen BLACK BELTS. SO you cant really say much of a black belt only that prob he has put in anywhere from 4-6 years of study.
LIke anything else does 4-6 yrs mean much? It means you have some pratice thats all,,,,, UNLESS you are training 4-5 times a week in the dojo at home in your mind everyday and spend countless hours on the mat or whereever and are dedicated beyond beliefe and have natural skill and are in good shape can you say dam... THATS one HELL Of a black belt .. :eek:
Ask them if they want a ribbon (or a chest to pin it on).
When I hear this nonsense I usually show them my black or brown leather belt holding up my pants and say in my most I-could-give-a-crap tone of voice, "Me too! I got a few more hanging up at home but this one matches my shoes today!"
TroyRoget
12-13-2005, 21:04
I have a blackbelt, and I just had my butt handed to me in match against a TKD red belt. A black belt just means it's more embarassing when you lose. : )
kenpo123
12-13-2005, 21:22
I have a blackbelt, and I just had my butt handed to me in match against a TKD red belt. A black belt just means it's more embarassing when you lose. : )
:laugh: witch is why I dont wana get one..
GoatWrath
12-14-2005, 04:21
Ahh man, at my old Isshinryu Karate mcdojo...I had only reached yellow belt, though I was one of the best at sparring in the class. It was because I never fooled with memorizing kata mainly...Somehow though, a blackbelt transferred there from another even more pathetic isshinryu school in my town...Heh...The times when we sparred, even before my yellow belt....He had alot of trouble holding his own. Sort of weird to end up punching someone in the head thats supposed to be on the opposite end of the rank spectrum in front of the instructor. Its almost like you want to apologize. There were 3 blackbelts in my school. The instructor of course, who rarely sparred. When I sparred him, I managed to surprise him with the amount of moves I got on him. I guess he's used to people not actually studying outside of his mcdojo. There's a shorter guy named Jack, who bodybuilds and practices grappling on his own time. He's a decent fighter, but lacks flexibility. Then there was my role model while I was training there, a very built, very flexible fighter. His displays of physical prowess always motivated me...Though later, I find out that after all of his years of training, somehow he's been sucked into dim mak, and qi gong. He also has a problem taking hits without turning. Mind you this is what I heard from a MMA fighter that I train with; He strikes me as very sincere and dedicated to the martial arts. He has no motive to lie. Anyway...Rank means nothing I have learned. There were middle ranking belts who had learned the kata and met the time requirements, where I had just trained for fighting the whole time. I protested the emphasis on belt rank and kata by taking off my gi top in the middle of class, and training without it on multiple occasions. I had used the excuse that I was overheating. One day, he decided to review a bunch of kata with the class, and I grabbed my Tao of JKD book, and walked off toward the bathrooms to read it. It kind of struck the instructor funny, haha. The bad thing is that's the strongest school in my town, however, it is not the largest. I hate what martial arts has come to. Traditional martial arts has mostly become a money making machine, based on the appeal it has with its nice uniforms, its wooden floors, mirrored walls, and katas. The MMA scene however loses touch with alot of the virtues and philosophies of martial arts. In my opinion, the only arts that have not been adulterated are maybe Kyokushin Karate and Judo. You know there are always exceptions though. Rank....screw that.
TroyRoget
12-14-2005, 05:41
http://www.flickeringmoon.net/troll.jpg
Troy, that is Haiku in pixels. Electronic Zen.
TroyRoget
12-14-2005, 10:51
Thanks. I try.
darrinallen
12-14-2005, 10:52
I know a lot of arts have a lot of little kids with BLACK BELTS
Iron Monkey
12-14-2005, 11:15
If someone just told me they had a black belt because we were talking about martial arts, that is cool with me. If there was someone who was going around telling people they had a black belt to put fear in them, such as, bullies or fools, well I'll tell them about the $1 menu at Mcdonalds. At my old high school there were people bragging, saying I am good at fighting, some even tried to start some BS with me at lunch time, they just talked and I just kept eating. What I am trying to say is some people just be bragging and making up stuff.
Ahh man, at my old Isshinryu Karate mcdojo...I had only reached yellow belt, though I was one of the best at sparring in the class. It was because I never fooled with memorizing kata mainly...Somehow though, a blackbelt transferred there from another even more pathetic isshinryu school in my town...Heh...The times when we sparred, even before my yellow belt....He had alot of trouble holding his own. Sort of weird to end up punching someone in the head thats supposed to be on the opposite end of the rank spectrum in front of the instructor. Its almost like you want to apologize. There were 3 blackbelts in my school. The instructor of course, who rarely sparred. When I sparred him, I managed to surprise him with the amount of moves I got on him. I guess he's used to people not actually studying outside of his mcdojo. There's a shorter guy named Jack, who bodybuilds and practices grappling on his own time. He's a decent fighter, but lacks flexibility. Then there was my role model while I was training there, a very built, very flexible fighter. His displays of physical prowess always motivated me...Though later, I find out that after all of his years of training, somehow he's been sucked into dim mak, and qi gong. He also has a problem taking hits without turning. Mind you this is what I heard from a MMA fighter that I train with; He strikes me as very sincere and dedicated to the martial arts. He has no motive to lie. Anyway...Rank means nothing I have learned. There were middle ranking belts who had learned the kata and met the time requirements, where I had just trained for fighting the whole time. I protested the emphasis on belt rank and kata by taking off my gi top in the middle of class, and training without it on multiple occasions. I had used the excuse that I was overheating. One day, he decided to review a bunch of kata with the class, and I grabbed my Tao of JKD book, and walked off toward the bathrooms to read it. It kind of struck the instructor funny, haha. The bad thing is that's the strongest school in my town, however, it is not the largest. I hate what martial arts has come to. Traditional martial arts has mostly become a money making machine, based on the appeal it has with its nice uniforms, its wooden floors, mirrored walls, and katas. The MMA scene however loses touch with alot of the virtues and philosophies of martial arts. In my opinion, the only arts that have not been adulterated are maybe Kyokushin Karate and Judo. You know there are always exceptions though. Rank....screw that.
Goat, don't worry - you will never receive rank anyway, unless you get a handle on the whole discipline and humility thing.
Jeff Cook
Webmaster
12-14-2005, 11:45
Goat, don't worry - you will never receive rank anyway, unless you get a handle on the whole discipline and humility thing.
Jeff Cook
So what is it about being 16 and thinking that they know everything? Kyokushinkai and Judo, "unadulterated"? With his level of experience, depth of training and decades of training, he wouldn't know what was and was not "unadulterated" if it fell in his lap. (Obviously, he has never heard of Mifune...unadulterated indeed!).
LOL, they are so CUTE at this age aren't they? :laugh:
sean_stonehart
12-14-2005, 11:57
Ahh man, at my old Isshinryu Karate mcdojo...I had only reached yellow belt, though I was one of the best at sparring in the class. It was because I never fooled with memorizing kata mainly...Somehow though, a blackbelt transferred there from another even more pathetic isshinryu school in my town...Heh...The times when we sparred, even before my yellow belt....He had alot of trouble holding his own. Sort of weird to end up punching someone in the head thats supposed to be on the opposite end of the rank spectrum in front of the instructor. Its almost like you want to apologize. There were 3 blackbelts in my school. The instructor of course, who rarely sparred. When I sparred him, I managed to surprise him with the amount of moves I got on him. I guess he's used to people not actually studying outside of his mcdojo. There's a shorter guy named Jack, who bodybuilds and practices grappling on his own time. He's a decent fighter, but lacks flexibility. Then there was my role model while I was training there, a very built, very flexible fighter. His displays of physical prowess always motivated me...Though later, I find out that after all of his years of training, somehow he's been sucked into dim mak, and qi gong. He also has a problem taking hits without turning. Mind you this is what I heard from a MMA fighter that I train with; He strikes me as very sincere and dedicated to the martial arts. He has no motive to lie. Anyway...Rank means nothing I have learned. There were middle ranking belts who had learned the kata and met the time requirements, where I had just trained for fighting the whole time. I protested the emphasis on belt rank and kata by taking off my gi top in the middle of class, and training without it on multiple occasions. I had used the excuse that I was overheating. One day, he decided to review a bunch of kata with the class, and I grabbed my Tao of JKD book, and walked off toward the bathrooms to read it. It kind of struck the instructor funny, haha. The bad thing is that's the strongest school in my town, however, it is not the largest. I hate what martial arts has come to. Traditional martial arts has mostly become a money making machine, based on the appeal it has with its nice uniforms, its wooden floors, mirrored walls, and katas. The MMA scene however loses touch with alot of the virtues and philosophies of martial arts. In my opinion, the only arts that have not been adulterated are maybe Kyokushin Karate and Judo. You know there are always exceptions though. Rank....screw that.
Wow... all of that wisdom & experience by the tender age of 16...
The older we grow the greater becomes our wonder at how much ignorance one can contain without bursting one's clothes.
- Mark Twain
Robert, "cute" wasn't exactly what came to mind.
Jeff Cook
As with any degree, some mean more than others, some are more difficult than others, and the degree-holders make far more of a difference themselves, anyway.
Kimbo vs. a 12 year old Ernie Reyes black belt, for example....
I guess alot of factors go into what a black belt is. When I started my kung fu training (a school VERY similar to the bunyip west wind mcdojo invstigation), we couldn't spar until green sash and there were many black sashes who could not spar. Granted, kung fu entails tons more than just sparring, but i think they should have the ability to apply more of what they learn in hish pressure situations. Alot of people automatically attribute belt color to fighting ability, when tons of black belts become such without ever fighting. I don't necessarily believe this is a bad thing, but i'm sure the people who throw the term 'black belt' around realize that this is the image they are putting out. But a good butt whoopin can always catch someone up on years false security, lol.
GoatWrath
12-14-2005, 16:20
First off, I don't want a rank. I quit my school because there was only competition in sparring from a couple of practitioners, yet I had the low ranking belt. Second, I never claimed to know everything. I talk to a kyokushin/judo practitioner, and I've seen alot of the matches online. With the emphasis on competition, I assumed that the ranks were not based on things like kata mastery and amount of money (time) spent at the dojo...Though I'm weak, I do understand the fundamentals of fighting, which is more than can be said for too many high ranking martial artists in my town. I'm 16, yes, but I've sought knowledge through reading, and talking to more experienced martial artists. How else could I surpass higher ranking fighters in terms of fighting ability? I have a long way to go. Somehow you're under the notion that I'm standing tall as if I've learned all there is to know. I'm not like that, I'm just above mcdojoism. If you actually had to earn your ranks, congratulations. I didn't mean to offend. That's more than people in my town have to do.
Mark Barlow
12-14-2005, 16:38
It's been my experience that most self-taught martial artists have idiots for instructors.
TroyRoget
12-14-2005, 17:46
Robert, "cute" wasn't exactly what came to mind.
Jeff Cook
Aw, c'mon. You have to admit that troll is cute. Especially in that picture.
John, this may surprise you but the job of a senior belt is to actually help the lowers belts progress. In doing that job, a senior belt might actually let a junior land a few shots on him in a sparring situation. The reason is so the junior will better be able to recognize and opening and get a feel throwing punches and kicks in a live situation. The negative side of this is when the junior thinks their skill level is higher than it actually is. Now, it's hard to get this through to the junior because they are full of thoughts like "But that shot was legitimate..he totally looked surprised" or "He wasn't letting me hit me...he could not stop me from hitting me if he wanted too". Everybody thinks they are the exception to the rule.
As for your comment "Rank.....screw that"....everything works off of rank in some form. Even those schools that do not award ranks still have instructors and coaches and that is a form or rank. A school would never be able to succeed if on it's first day the owner announced "Hey, don't look at me for leadership.....do what you want to do". Even the all mighty Bruce Lee issued rank and progression cards. ;)
I think the criticism you are getting is based on your attitude. Many of us on this board are instructors in our arts and groan when we here some young buck gleefully tell us how they disrespected their instructor. I hope you either outgrow that childish attitude or abandon the martial arts before disrespect the wrong instructor and get your rear ended handed to you. It happens...all the time.
John Lucas
12-14-2005, 17:55
How are you ever going to make it in medical school with no discipline?
GoatWrath
12-14-2005, 18:33
Heh, I've considered that they were going easy, and I asked them to not, as I was doubting it...The place I went to was a mcdojo. The instructors weren't even well prepared against basic kickboxing and jiujitsu. They did help me early on, but as I learned from outside influences, and studdied actual strategy, I started trying to control them and draw, feint, make and capitalize on openings. At that point, it doesn't really make much sense to keep helping someone. Again, I did make it known that I wanted them to spar competitively. I didn't get into katas either. A part of the belt requirements was knowing the katas, and quite frankly they don't interest me, so I didn't study them. Lack of discipline? Sure, call it what you want. Disrespect? Yeah. I guess I find it hard to respect a mcdojo scam artist. It wasn't just the kata, but he taught dim mak, and certain joint manipulations which are not effective at all. That, and the emphasis on exagerated blocks and snappy kicks hurts the style pretty bad. I don't just judge people on the spot. Pissing off the wrong instructor? First off, its not like he could just pounce one me and start breaking the precious parts of my fragile little body (cough liability/law), so I have nothing to fear really. If he does dominate me though, he has my respect. I don't just jump into a new school and talk trash anyway, but I'm also not recluctant to feel my way around. From my experience though, belt rank is not a representation of skill, at all.
starkjudo
12-14-2005, 19:04
My first thought is, you have know understanding of the concept of attitude. My second thought is, no self-respecting instructor would take you as a student right now. You've got a lot of maturing to do.
kenpo123
12-14-2005, 19:19
As with any degree, some mean more than others, some are more difficult than others, and the degree-holders make far more of a difference themselves, anyway.
Kimbo vs. a 12 year old Ernie Reyes black belt, for example....
kimbo would get his but kicked by ernie :D
Musubi Dojo
12-14-2005, 20:32
It's been my experience that most self-taught martial artists have idiots for instructors.
snicker...snicker...
John no skepticism but how do you do with "Self taught western boxing"? I'm not among those to blame on age at first, but how do you self-teach yourself? :confused:
Are you some kind of auto-updated cyborg? :laugh: (kidding)
You said "If he does dominate me though, he has my respect.", does that mean your opponent/instructor has to leave you bleeding on the ground waiting for emergencies to have your respect?
You seem to still have a long way before to start learning.
Musubi Dojo
12-14-2005, 20:35
kimbo would get his but kicked by ernie :D
Of course he would! He can do the 720 degree helicopter kicks.
Anyone who's every played Streetfighter knows there's no defense against that move...
Of course he would! He can do the 720 degree helicopter kicks.
I thought I was the only one able to! I guess I got to learn a new special move! :D
If he does dominate me though, he has my respect.
I have never been to this Dojo of yours, so if you think it's a McDojo, I'll believe you. I am unwilling to buy the palne ticket to Tennessee to find out for myself (though I could visit the Jack Daniels distillery...).
Regarding the above statement, however, you should know that this is in no way the correct attitude to have with learning the martial arts. Even if a Sensei is able to beat you when you first join, from that day on they will work with you, training you as hard as they can, helping you improve so that one day you will surpass their ability. If you train hard enough and long enough it is inevitable. So you must have the correct mindset, that should you surpass them physically you still realise that you have something to learn from them technically and morally/philosophically.
Look at boxing: Lennox Lewis could wipe the floor with any of his coaches, but he still listens to them, because they've been in the Boxing game for much longer than him, they're objective, they can see his flaws, they might know a bit more about technique than them, etc. Though he has the physical skill, he still needs help with it, and gladly accepts it from people he could "Dominate".
Same with your sensei. At some point, if I carry on training, my ability will surpass my teachers. But they don't stop being my sensei just because of that. I still have something to learn.
From the sounds of it on your postings, this Dojo just didn't suit you. If you're interested in JKD or MMA, go learn that. When you find one you like you'll stick with it.
Mark Barlow
12-15-2005, 09:23
In all probability, the first time Jr. gets really dominated, i.e. stomped into the muddy puddle he deserves, he'll leave to find a dojo less demanding. If this sounds unreasonably harsh, it's better he learn how ridiculous and disrespectful his attitude is early rather than later. The fact that he acknowledges his instructors liability if he really does hammer him doubly p's me off because he's saying, "I don't respect you if you don't hurt me and my mommy will sue you if you hurt me."
Webmaster
12-15-2005, 09:46
The fact that he acknowledges his instructors liability if he really does hammer him doubly p's me off because he's saying, "I don't respect you if you don't hurt me and my mommy will sue you if you hurt me."
I noticed that too Mark and it also pissed me off. He is like a spoiled child that pushes his parents and trys to dominate the house because he knows that as soon as they actually try and enforce the rules, he will call child protective service. So he knows that his instructor can only go so far in the legal sense and will happily talk trash because he knows his instructor will not do what is actually needed, and that is beat him within an inch of his life. However, what can we really expect from a know it all 16 year old child that hides behind the skirt of a threatened lawsuit.
sean_stonehart
12-15-2005, 09:46
I have never been to this Dojo of yours, so if you think it's a McDojo, I'll believe you. I am unwilling to buy the palne ticket to Tennessee to find out for myself (though I could visit the Jack Daniels distillery...).
Eh... it's in a dry county if you can believe it! :eek: :eek:
I think the tours though have samples, but that could be off due to the dry laws.
sean_stonehart
12-15-2005, 09:49
I noticed that too Mark and it also pissed me off. He is like a spoiled child that pushes his parents and trys to dominate the house because he knows that as soon as they actually try and enforce the rules, he will call child protective service. So he knows that his instructor can only go so far in the legal sense and will happily talk trash because he knows his instructor will not do what is actually needed, and that is beat him within an inch of his life. However, what can we really expect from a know it all 16 year old child that hides behind the skirt of a threatened lawsuit.
I saw that too. Yet he espouses contact & all like he rolls every day.
What part of Tennessee are you in junior?
...In my opinion, the only arts that have not been adulterated are maybe Kyokushin Karate and Judo... Rank....screw that.
John AKA Goat, maybe you should join a judo club. You'll get to do lots of randori (free practice) and the ranking system is such that when you practice with higher grades you'll learn a lot. One of the best things you'll learn is ukemi. Also, manners, humbleness, discipline and respect are taught at traditional dojos. These are all useful to learn. You sound very keen to compete and judo offers lots of tournaments and competition. I think you'll find it more of a challenge.
Richard
Eh... it's in a dry county if you can believe it!
BLOODY YANKS!!!! Of course it is, why wouldn't the JACK DANIELS Distillery, which makes the WORLD'S MOST POPULAR BOURBON, be in a dry county?
I'd wax lyrical more about how Wrong Wrong Wrong this really is, but it's hard to see the keyboard from this High Horse I seem to have got on.
[BTW, I'm assuming 'dry' means 'you can't drink alcohol'. If the county is just actually Dry (i.e. no rivers), please accept my apologies].
sean_stonehart
12-16-2005, 07:25
Nah... you got it Jame... Dry as in Dry... damn shame. But there's always Kentucky for its Bourbon & samples.
I didn't get into katas either. A part of the belt requirements was knowing the katas, and quite frankly they don't interest me, so I didn't study them.
Is that possibly because you could not do the kata? If you study math, can you just decide you dont want to learn basic arithmetic, b/c it doesn't interest you, and study calculus? You don't just pick out the parts you don't like or are not good at.
STORMCROW34
12-16-2005, 08:05
Heh, I've considered that they were going easy, and I asked them to not, as I was doubting it...The place I went to was a mcdojo. The instructors weren't even well prepared against basic kickboxing and jiujitsu. They did help me early on, but as I learned from outside influences, and studdied actual strategy, I started trying to control them and draw, feint, make and capitalize on openings. At that point, it doesn't really make much sense to keep helping someone. Again, I did make it known that I wanted them to spar competitively. I didn't get into katas either. A part of the belt requirements was knowing the katas, and quite frankly they don't interest me, so I didn't study them. Lack of discipline? Sure, call it what you want. Disrespect? Yeah. I guess I find it hard to respect a mcdojo scam artist. It wasn't just the kata, but he taught dim mak, and certain joint manipulations which are not effective at all. That, and the emphasis on exagerated blocks and snappy kicks hurts the style pretty bad. I don't just judge people on the spot. Pissing off the wrong instructor? First off, its not like he could just pounce one me and start breaking the precious parts of my fragile little body (cough liability/law), so I have nothing to fear really. If he does dominate me though, he has my respect. I don't just jump into a new school and talk trash anyway, but I'm also not recluctant to feel my way around. From my experience though, belt rank is not a representation of skill, at all.
I think he taught himself "punk-fu".
Mst Whalen
12-16-2005, 09:52
My first thought is, you have know understanding of the concept of attitude. My second thought is, no self-respecting instructor would take you as a student right now. You've got a lot of maturing to do.
Having been in the martial arts for over 40 years and teaching Hapkido since 1979 , I believe this instructor showed a great amount of tolerance and self control, be grateful he did not spar with you it would stink being in the Hospital for the Holidays
Many years ago when I first started teaching Hapkido, We had Black Belts from other systems and other Dojos or Dojangs come to us and after watching would want to spar with one of my students or myself as younger less experienced teacher I used to jump on the opportunity,
When they watched me warm up ,they started suddenly making rules,I'd laugh and simply state "You came here to challenge me" the only rule is someone watch the door so he cannot get away. they usualy back down at this point.
Those that did not, I waited until they tried to impress me rather than defeat me. :bow: I would take them down apply a joint lock until they tapped out ..
sean_stonehart
12-16-2005, 10:31
I think he taught himself "punk-fu".
Sorry Michael... there's no "fu" in anything he's done. ;)
DragonMind
12-16-2005, 12:54
Sure there is Sean, he's a Fuul
I protested the emphasis on belt rank and kata by taking off my gi top in the middle of class, and training without it on multiple occasions. I had used the excuse that I was overheating....
How is this a protest when you use an excuse to explain yourself?
One day, he decided to review a bunch of kata with the class, and I grabbed my Tao of JKD book, and walked off toward the bathrooms to read it. It kind of struck the instructor funny, haha.
Don't you think this behavior would strike ANY instructor funny?
I hate what martial arts has come to. Traditional martial arts has mostly become a money making machine, based on the appeal it has with its nice uniforms, its wooden floors, mirrored walls, and katas.
Why do you practise it then?
Or have you quit traditional martial arts?
The MMA scene however loses touch with alot of the virtues and philosophies of martial arts. In my opinion, the only arts that have not been adulterated are maybe Kyokushin Karate and Judo. You know there are always exceptions though. Rank....screw that.
How would you define the virtues and philosophies of martial arts?
kenpo123
12-16-2005, 18:56
Having been in the martial arts for over 40 years and teaching Hapkido since 1979 , I believe this instructor showed a great amount of tolerance and self control, be grateful he did not spar with you it would stink being in the Hospital for the Holidays
Many years ago when I first started teaching Hapkido, We had Black Belts from other systems and other Dojos or Dojangs come to us and after watching would want to spar with one of my students or myself as younger less experienced teacher I used to jump on the opportunity,
When they watched me warm up ,they started suddenly making rules,I'd laugh and simply state "You came here to challenge me" the only rule is someone watch the door so he cannot get away. they usualy back down at this point.
Those that did not, I waited until they tried to impress me rather than defeat me. :bow: I would take them down apply a joint lock until they tapped out ..
Im sure they were happy it was just a joint lock and not a face bashing.
Antares33
12-16-2005, 21:16
Im sure they were happy it was just a joint lock and not a face bashing.
It's like watching some of the early Gracie challenge matches. They would submit some of the challengers, only to have them stand up and ask for more.
If I were his teacher I would kick his happy *** out faster than he could say mmmooommmmyyy!
Hey...What's with the censorship? :confused:
Andy, there is an automatic filter on the website to block certain words.
Jeff Cook
tkdgirlms
12-16-2005, 21:42
Ask them if they want a ribbon (or a chest to pin it on).
When I hear this nonsense I usually show them my black or brown leather belt holding up my pants and say in my most I-could-give-a-crap tone of voice, "Me too! I got a few more hanging up at home but this one matches my shoes today!"
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I love it, that's what my dad says when he asks what rank I'm at now - well, "I've got a black belt on, guess that means I'm a black belt now!"
I like the concept of the belting system for 1 reason only and that's so lower ranks (mostly white and yellow) will know who is supposed to have more knowledge and can help them achieve their goal. (hmmm....did that sentence just make sense?) Otherwise, I think most people think of bb as a status symbol, much like someone having a Rolls Royce or something. I know many people here who look to bb as knowing it all and not having to learn more (no one in my dojo, this is outside the dojo) but that is NOT true at all. We are constantly learning and perfecting our techniques, even the highest ranking MA can still learn new things from the lowest of white belts.
kenpo123
12-17-2005, 20:40
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I love it, that's what my dad says when he asks what rank I'm at now - well, "I've got a black belt on, guess that means I'm a black belt now!"
I like the concept of the belting system for 1 reason only and that's so lower ranks (mostly white and yellow) will know who is supposed to have more knowledge and can help them achieve their goal. (hmmm....did that sentence just make sense?) Otherwise, I think most people think of bb as a status symbol, much like someone having a Rolls Royce or something. I know many people here who look to bb as knowing it all and not having to learn more (no one in my dojo, this is outside the dojo) but that is NOT true at all. We are constantly learning and perfecting our techniques, even the highest ranking MA can still learn new things from the lowest of white belts.
NOpe I hold black belt in my hand, and there is nothing I can learn from any of you because of this. I know everything. :up:
Jason T Gatts
12-18-2005, 07:15
My opinion on this topic has really done a 180 over the years. When I first started in the Martial Arts I thought that a Black Belt made you practically invincible (probably influenced by all the indestructable Black Belts I saw in movies). When I was approaching my own Black Belt test I actually got into a huge argument with one of my very good friends when he told me that he had gotten his black belt in kickboxing when he was in middle school. I went into a fanatical rage telling him that not only couldn't a middle school kid earn a black belt but that kickboxing was a sport not a martial "art" so the whole concept was ridiculous. It wasn't until much later (when I really started to study the history on my own) that I learned what the belt system was developed for and realized just how wrong I was.
I personally feel that the belt system serves 3 useful purposes:
1) So the instructor of a large school can keep their curriculum straight (which new technique for which student)
2) So less experienced students can spot right away who they should be able to go to for advise or assistance (when the teacher and assistant instructors are busy)
3) So tournaments can better match competitors
Along this line of thinking I now think that the belt system could be very useful for individual sports in general. Wouldn't it be a good idea if a boxer with a record of 0-5 was given a yellow belt and maybe fought a guy that was 1-1 instead of a guy with the same amount of time in that is 5-0? Or how about high school wrestlers competing against people with similar records instead of simply JV and Varsity?
Sorry I was alittle long winded just something I've been thinking about alot lately.
Oh yeah and to directly contibute to the main point of this thread - a black belt is 1 belt past the last one nothing more or less (you're no longer a brown belt or red belt or whatever your system is) the same as when you went from white belt to the next.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Otherwise, I think most people think of bb as a status symbol, much like someone having a Rolls Royce or something. I know many people here who look to bb as knowing it all and not having to learn more (no one in my dojo, this is outside the dojo) but that is NOT true at all. We are constantly learning and perfecting our techniques, even the highest ranking MA can still learn new things from the lowest of white belts.
I agree. And those people with their "status symbols" are the ones that buy all that stuff posted here. Nice stuff too, but I can think of better things to be written on them though. :cool:
And just as you say, when I was on the outside looking in, someone with a blackbelt was someone to be in awe of. Figured they must know everything there is to know about their art.
Now that I have been exposed to it more, I can't look at it that way. Being a blackbelt is only the beginning. And many shouldn't have them in the first place. The "awe" is gone.
Saying you have a Black Belt out of MA discussions means you are not truly a Black Belt in humility. To be a Black Belt, to me, means you understand that no matter how much you learn, there will be someone better than you, and that earning a Black Belt, means you are an advanced beginner.
Dion Wilbur
12-26-2005, 21:41
I was taught that you should keep the fact that you know martial arts almost secret. Basically, if you ask me I'll tell you I have a black belt, but I'll never volunteer the information.
Me also... nobody outside the Martial arts community here knows I'am a 3rd dan and have been training for 23 years at 28.. I keep it secret to people at work e.t.c. unless they ask 'are you a blackbelt'..
Karen Session
12-27-2005, 03:12
If someone told me he had a blackbelt, I would just smile, nod and walk away. Doesn't impress me much.
Someone may be an X dan blackbelt with Y numbers of year of training. But the important question is if you can fight.
As my friends love to say, "Can't fight, worth poop." :cool:
Yang Wei Xin
12-27-2005, 10:45
i have belt, macys $3.95.
good purchase.
I knew a guy, had his Masters degree in Computer Mathematics. He was ABD (all but dissertation) for his PhD. He ended up teaching High School for a semester or two before sitting down to write his great tome.
Another teacher at that same HS already her EdD (Doctor of Education). Very insecure about it, she was. Had to harp all the time that everybody call her Doctor, insiting on special deference at meetings...all that BS (pun intended).
My friend, who did not think highly of any "soft" (his word) science or any training related to it whatever the title balked at addressing her with exagerated deference. Part of it might be that his own total years of years of education exceeded hers, regardless of title. So he made a proposal: "Okay, I'll call you Doctor if you call me Master. That's fair, isn't it?". One can imagine how well that went over.
Alternately, a neighbor of mine has his MD in Anesthetics. Yet he always introduces himself as Tom. You've got to respect that, I think.
It seems to me that folks who introduce themselves with more than their name on first acquaintence are most likely trying to project an illusion. It comes off very amateurish, like those sophmoric intro lines heard at singles bars in old disco movies.
Confidence need not project an "image", certainly not at first introduction. Be they real black belt or not, genuine rocket scientist or not...such behavior is still the mark of a loser at heart. It is obvious to everyone else, if not to them.
Jared Sutton
12-27-2005, 21:32
He is like a spoiled child that pushes his parents and trys to dominate the house because he knows that as soon as they actually try and enforce the rules, he will call child protective service.
If I did that my dad would take his blackbelt (very nice, leather with a silver buckle :D ) and make sure child protective services got there gas money's worth.
This guy (was going to say kid, but he's older than me :D ) is just amazing! ...Wow! :laugh:
Jared Sutton
12-27-2005, 21:40
I knew a guy, had his Masters degree in Computer Mathematics. He was ABD (all but dissertation) for his PhD. He ended up teaching High School for a semester or two before sitting down to write his great tome.
Another teacher at that same HS already her EdD (Doctor of Education). Very insecure about it, she was. Had to harp all the time that everybody call her Doctor, insiting on special deference at meetings...all that BS (pun intended).
My friend, who did not think highly of any "soft" (his word) science or any training related to it whatever the title balked at addressing her with exagerated deference. Part of it might be that his own total years of years of education exceeded hers, regardless of title. So he made a proposal: "Okay, I'll call you Doctor if you call me Master. That's fair, isn't it?". One can imagine how well that went over.
Alternately, a neighbor of mine has his MD in Anesthetics. Yet he always introduces himself as Tom. You've got to respect that, I think.
It seems to me that folks who introduce themselves with more than their name on first acquaintence are most likely trying to project an illusion. It comes off very amateurish, like those sophmoric intro lines heard at singles bars in old disco movies.
Confidence need not project an "image", certainly not at first introduction. Be they real black belt or not, genuine rocket scientist or not...such behavior is still the mark of a loser at heart. It is obvious to everyone else, if not to them.
Hello. My name is Javier Valequaro (emphasizing the H sound in Javier) and I take out tonsils. Please refer to me as Dr. V or I shall be forced to put your face to the silk cupholder covers in my Lexus that has silk cupholder covers. :laugh:
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