Balance

[simick1712]

I was just thinking that I need to improve my balance and wondered if the collective wisdom of Budoseek knew if there are any particular exercises/activities that are particularly applicable to this...?

For instance, is something like holding a kick in place or standing on one leg for as long as possible going to help the most, or is it simply a case of repeatedly throwing kicks etc?

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[wab25]

Holding a kick in place will work. Kicking really slowly will work. Standing on one leg will work. Doing many different kicks, slowly, without putting your leg down will help. Find where you are unbalanced, and spend a lot of time there... you will develop your balance in that position.

[Andrew Green]

Do the Karate Kid thing and go stand in the waves :)

There are different "types" of balance, standing on one foot will help, but it is not the same method of staying upright as you would need if someone was trying to through you. As balance is not just about being able to hold a position, but being able to adapt quickly enough to not get knocked off balance.

There are balance boards, swiss balls can be good for balance, but generally it comes down to finding the sort of situation that you loose your balance in, and putting yourself in it until your body figures out how to deal with it.

If it is balance on kicks, throw kicks in a way that pushes your balance. If it's getting thrown, get someone to try and throw you.

[jwinch2]

Balance is a function of three main things, visual proprioception, vestibular function, and neuromuscular propioception.

Holding a kick in place or moving very slowly are completely different tasks and require a different motor program to perform them. Use of a different motor program requires an alteration in the recruitment patterns of the muscles involved in the task and will not transfer when it comes time to perform the movement you actually care about. For reference, see either text by Dr. Richard Magill or Schmidt and Lee on motor control and learning. The research findings are consistant.

Some things that HAVE actually been shown to work are a restriction of one of the above mentioned systems. For example, performing a task while blindfolded, or using ear plugs would restrict use of visual or vestibular function, forcing you to rely on the others to a greater extent.

In addition, performing your normal movements on a small surface such as a balance beam, on a grade such as a hill or steep driveway, or an unstable surface such as a BAPS board will force you to rely on your neuromuscular proprioception to a greater extent.

Whatever you do, don't change the movement itself...

[wab25]

jwinch2, a few questions....

1. I have developed my balance through holding a kick in place, as well as performing it slowly. Are you really saying that this practice had no effect on my balance?

2. Is using different motor programs really a bad thing, when learning balance? Andrew points out that a big part of balance is your body's ability to adapt to change. You suggest standing on unstable surfaces. Would not throwing a kick slowly and coming to a stop, thus causing the change of motor programs, help your body learn to adapt in a similar way to standing on an unstable surface?

Balance is really just getting your body to align itself correctly. If you put more weight on one side, you tip over. If you extend one segment of your body one way, it needs to be countered the other way, or you tip. Kicking slowly, and changing to different kicks and different speeds, aids your body in learn to coordinate itself with the changing conditions. I don't doubt that your suggestions work. But I think all the other suggestions work as well. I also feel that there is no short cut to learning balance, it takes work like everything else.

[jwinch2]

jwinch2, a few questions....

1. I have developed my balance through holding a kick in place, as well as performing it slowly. Are you really saying that this practice had no effect on my balance?



I am saying that while you may have noticed an increase in your balance and you happened to be performing that type of training. A did not cause B. Correlation does not equal causality.





2. Is using different motor programs really a bad thing, when learning balance? Andrew points out that a big part of balance is your body's ability to adapt to change. You suggest standing on unstable surfaces. Would not throwing a kick slowly and coming to a stop, thus causing the change of motor programs, help your body learn to adapt in a similar way to standing on an unstable surface?



Yes and no. Using multiple programs is not a bad thing if you are training multiple tasks. However, if the tasks you are training are not the same tasks you are going to be performing, transfer of gains is minimal at best. Secondly, deliberatly slowing a movement requires the activation of alternate motor units (slow twitch versus fast twitch) then you would be using if you were deliberately moving at a high velocity. When this happens a different process is taking place not only in the peripheral neuromuscular system but in the central nervous system as well. The two do not in anyway match up. As far as your brain is concerned, they are two different tasks.



Balance is really just getting your body to align itself correctly. If you put more weight on one side, you tip over. If you extend one segment of your body one way, it needs to be countered the other way, or you tip. Kicking slowly, and changing to different kicks and different speeds, aids your body in learn to coordinate itself with the changing conditions. I don't doubt that your suggestions work. But I think all the other suggestions work as well. I also feel that there is no short cut to learning balance, it takes work like everything else.

Balance is in fact much more than body alignment. Kinesthasia or body awareness is certainly part of it but it is much more complex than that. It requires the correct interpretation of signals being presented from the afore mentioned systems and the performance of the resultant task. If you alternate the definition of what constitutes successful completion of the task, you have changed the performance and are no longer doing the same movement.

That muddy it up some for you?

Later,

Jason :)

[wab25]

I am saying that while you may have noticed an increase in your balance and you happened to be performing that type of training. A did not cause B. Correlation does not equal causality.
So you are saying that my increase in balance was not caused by practicing in this fashion? What then caused my balance to improve dramatically, at the same time as I started parcticing this way? Was it coincidence?


if the tasks you are training are not the same tasks you are going to be performing, transfer of gains is minimal at best.
So we must then practice every single possible situation where we may lose balance? Our body can not be trained to adapt our balance for different situations? Doesn't the body get better at finding its balance, the more you work at it? ( I must be odd in that I find my balance easier after practicing )


deliberatly slowing a movement requires the activation of alternate motor units (slow twitch versus fast twitch) then you would be using if you were deliberately moving at a high velocity. When this happens a different process is taking place not only in the peripheral neuromuscular system but in the central nervous system as well. The two do not in anyway match up. As far as your brain is concerned, they are two different tasks.
So then, my whole martial arts career has been wasted by practicing slow. If practicing slow, does not transfer to moving fast, why then do I get better at the faster movement when I practice slow? Another coincidense?


Balance is in fact much more than body alignment.
This is a definition issue. Balance is acheived when the body is at rest. Its a physics thing. When all the forces on one side are equal and opposite to the other side, an equilibrium occurs, which we call balance. (the force causing me to fall to the right equals the force causing me to fall left, therefore, I remain standing.... ) Now maintaining that balance does require a very complex set of stuff to happen internally, which you are much more familiar with. But, in the end, all those complex programs must distribute the weight in such a fashion as to cancel out all the forces, otherwise you will fall into an unintended position of balance.... such as prostrate on the mat.

ps. these are serious questions. What you bring up is exactly opposite of what I have been taught, and also exactly opposite of what I have found through training. I am trying to open my mind and understand where I may have been mislead.

[simick1712]

Wow - thanks for the response, I didn't intend to fuel any arguments though! It seems from this that people obviously have different ideas about what works and what doesn't - I was originally trying to work out whether there's some particular method or routine which was generally known as the most effective.

I think the best course of action for me is just to try different things until I find out what works. Thanks very much for your help!

[jwinch2]

So you are saying that my increase in balance was not caused by practicing in this fashion? What then caused my balance to improve dramatically, at the same time as I started parcticing this way? Was it coincidence?


I would suggest that you were doing many different things over the time that your balance improved. Trying to pin it on those particular things is not possible. Only when maniulating one specific variable in isolation can you determine whether or not it is the thing that is making a difference. If you want to establish causality you need more than just correlation you need time course and control of confounding variables.

When used in isolation the training techniques you have suggested have shown little or no improvement in balance in various populations in the literature and texts.



So we must then practice every single possible situation where we may lose balance? Our body can not be trained to adapt our balance for different situations? Doesn't the body get better at finding its balance, the more you work at it? ( I must be odd in that I find my balance easier after practicing )


No, as I stated earlier, balance is a physiological as well as a central nervous system function. Improving the physiological mechanisms which relate to balance (visual and neuromuscular proprioception, and vestibular function) will allow for transfer outside of one specific movement. However, I would suggest that training your entire set of techniques for your specific style would be a very good idea.



So then, my whole martial arts career has been wasted by practicing slow. If practicing slow, does not transfer to moving fast, why then do I get better at the faster movement when I practice slow? Another coincidense?


You will have to be the judge as to whether or not you have wasted time training or not. All I can tell you is what the research says; what makes sense from a physiological, learning, and mechanical standpoint; and what I have gleaned from years of working with people of various populations from the elderly to elite athletes.


This is a definition issue. Balance is acheived when the body is at rest. Its a physics thing. When all the forces on one side are equal and opposite to the other side, an equilibrium occurs, which we call balance. (the force causing me to fall to the right equals the force causing me to fall left, therefore, I remain standing.... ) Now maintaining that balance does require a very complex set of stuff to happen internally, which you are much more familiar with. But, in the end, all those complex programs must distribute the weight in such a fashion as to cancel out all the forces, otherwise you will fall into an unintended position of balance.... such as prostrate on the mat.



When dealing with the body and human movement it is never just a physics issue. The reason physics when applied to the body is called biomechanics and not physics is because you can never separate the biology from the movement, ever. Balance is not just about alignment of forces. That is the end result, not the process. The process involves constant adjustment by active tissue in order to adapt to the stimulus provided. It is never static in nature.


ps. these are serious questions. What you bring up is exactly opposite of what I have been taught, and also exactly opposite of what I have found through training. I am trying to open my mind and understand where I may have been mislead.

I have no problem with the questions. So don't worry about that.
:)

[wab25]

I appreciate the answers. I am afraid that at this point we may have to agree to disagree. I respect the research you have done, and only have the personal experience of myself and those I train with, to the contrary. (which does not amount to the same thing as research studies) I will however, experiment with the ideas you present and see if they work for me. Never hurts to try.


Balance is not just about alignment of forces. That is the end result, not the process. The process involves constant adjustment by active tissue in order to adapt to the stimulus provided. It is never static in nature.
This point I can clarify. You are defining the process of aligning all the forces as balance and I am defining the end result of the process as balance. The verb balance, as an action verses the noun balance, being a state that one can be in.

Thanks for the info, if I find that it works, I will have to report back here. It is good to question what you are doing, how you are doing it and why. Who knows, I could learn a lot more things, even if I never find the answer to this question.

[jwinch2]

I appreciate the answers. I am afraid that at this point we may have to agree to disagree. I respect the research you have done, and only have the personal experience of myself and those I train with, to the contrary. (which does not amount to the same thing as research studies) I will however, experiment with the ideas you present and see if they work for me. Never hurts to try.


This point I can clarify. You are defining the process of aligning all the forces as balance and I am defining the end result of the process as balance. The verb balance, as an action verses the noun balance, being a state that one can be in.

Thanks for the info, if I find that it works, I will have to report back here. It is good to question what you are doing, how you are doing it and why. Who knows, I could learn a lot more things, even if I never find the answer to this question.

Have fun...

[RickMatz]

Practice Zhan Zhuang.

[Nin]

I share Jason's advices. Blindfolded exercises are great.

I think there was already a thread about this topic. Can't remember which one though.

[nirgle]

Don't drink any alcohol. Seriously, I've found that after a good night out, I may sober up by noon but my balance is off for days afterward.

[poetic misjustice]

one i did that i found very effective is to stand on a smallish platform on one leg for a while and when you find that easy to hold, make the platform smaller, then again etc. etc. and try doing kicking combos really slowly.

[Yang Wei Xin]

I was just thinking that I need to improve my balance and wondered if the collective wisdom of Budoseek knew if there are any particular exercises/activities that are particularly applicable to this...?

For instance, is something like holding a kick in place or standing on one leg for as long as possible going to help the most, or is it simply a case of repeatedly throwing kicks etc?

Any help or insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

have you tried doing these things blindfolded?
it takes away your horizon and forces your body to use the inner ear to determine your center point, creates great balance.

there is also a kung fu excercise called golden rooster in which you cross one leg over the top of the other, then sink the supporting leg like in horse stance, spread the arms to your side at a 45 degreee angle and lift up, bend the wrists back and up towards cieling now squeeze the fingertips, and close your eyes, increases leg strength, forearm strength and balance.

beginning reps 25-50
intermediate 50-100
advanced 100+

sorry, didn't realize somebody had already talked about blindfolds.