The return of the .45 ACP

[James O'Neill]

This information courtesy of Mst. James Keating's website (http://www.jamesakeating.com/maajak1.html)

U.S. Brings Back the .45
COOPER WUZ RIGHT A'gin !
January 27, 2006: After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as "official alternatives" to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches. The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs. SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don't hold your breath.

Interesting aye? I thought this was going to be just a matter of time - the US adopted the .45cal over the existing .38cal round originally for a reason. During the Cold War we went with the 9mm for political reasons (or so I've heard) but now that troops are actively using their pistols in combat we are moving back to the stopping power of the .45cal. - That's not to diss the 9mm - with the right ammo it is a fine cartridge but with 'military ball' ammo it leaves allot to be desired IMO...

[jjaje]

Careful, it didn't mention .45 ACP specifically. It may be that they, for some unknown oddball reason, would choose the .45gap

[SteyrAUG]

Please God in Heaven...grant them thy divine SIG P220 series.

[Lame Leopard]

I second the Sig + .45 ACP combo. What a great choice that would be. On a negative note, as I look at the decisions made by U.S. Army ordance biggies thoughout our history, there have many bad decisions along with the good ones. Always remember that the Native Americans at the Little Big Horn had Henrys and Winchesters and the cavalry had single shot Springfields that, quite often, had to had the casings dug out of the chamber with a knife.

We owe it to our troops to give them the best and most reliable, not just stuff produced by the lowest bidder. The problems we had with the M16-A1 still gives me nightmares.

[Gene Williams]

This information courtesy of Mst. James Keating's website (http://www.jamesakeating.com/maajak1.html)

U.S. Brings Back the .45
COOPER WUZ RIGHT A'gin !
January 27, 2006: After two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense is getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as "official alternatives" to the M9 Beretta. But now SOCOM has been given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs are being evaluated, but all must be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 will also have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length must be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches. The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense plans to buy 645,000 JCPs. SOCOM will, with input from other branches, handle the evaluation and final selection. This will take place this year, and if the military moves with unaccustomed alacrity, troops could start getting their JCPs next year. But don't hold your breath.

Interesting aye? I thought this was going to be just a matter of time - the US adopted the .45cal over the existing .38cal round originally for a reason. During the Cold War we went with the 9mm for political reasons (or so I've heard) but now that troops are actively using their pistols in combat we are moving back to the stopping power of the .45cal. - That's not to diss the 9mm - with the right ammo it is a fine cartridge but with 'military ball' ammo it leaves allot to be desired IMO...


What could be easier to maintain than a 1911A? I like the weight; I like to feel like I am holding a weapon instead of some piece of alloy. The 1911 is as flat as a pancake; I can carry concealed under a t-shirt. Cocked and locked, it is faster than a revolver. One in chamber and a magazine gives you eight rounds. I can fire two magazines, all on target, in way under 30 sec. and I don't shoot enough. You can field strip it in a few moves. You can drop it, kick it, stick it in the mud and chances are it will still fire. In civilian defense situations, just showing it is a deterrent (I've done it). Some things aren't better just because they are new.

[SteyrAUG]

What could be easier to maintain than a 1911A?

A SIG P220. :D

[Gene Williams]

A SIG P220. :D

I don't know anything about that weapon. Enlighten me. :)

[TonyU]

I don't know anything about that weapon. Enlighten me. :)
As much as I also love 1911's, you can't go wrong with the P220.
Easily maintained also as it only requires a takedown lever to disassemble.
Don't have to worry about a bushing.
Very accurate and reliable.
You can now get with the rail also.
Here's the specifics on their website.
http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicfullsize-models.asp?product_id=40

[Dennis Monk]

I cannot and will ot argue against the P220. I have shot them many a time and enjoyed every one.
I will always have a fondness in my heart for Gov't Model .45 acp's. I still carry one every day.

[SteyrAUG]

I don't know anything about that weapon. Enlighten me. :)


If John Browning had lived long enough, eventually he would have designed the P220. :D

[jjaje]

Went to the local "toy store" today as they are having a winter sale. Saw a new P220 Crimson Trace with the accessory rail and laser grip. Definately a beauty.
http://www.sigarms.com/products/classicfullsize-models.asp?product_id=265

[TicTac]

One more vote for the 1911. Perfection doesn't come around often. Sliced bread was invented long before the 1911 and it is still the best thing since itself :rolleyes:

[Chunmonchek]

I have never fired the Sig P220, but have heard nothing but good about it.

That being said, I vote for the 1911, Series 70, with a dovetailed front site. My choice as there exists a plethora of 1911 technology, research, aftermarket bits and pieces, and 1911 Docs. They've been built standard, long-slide, short-slide, short, fat, skinny, and with just about every imaginable option, including a carbine kit. Seems like a good basis for a side-arm/weapons system. JMHO.