Should I move to Japan, to Train?

[BADSTALIN]

Hello everyone, could you please give me a little advice, and tell me whats best to do, because Im making a big decision. Im planning on saving up tons of money, and going to Japan for at least a year, to Train at a Dojo for a while (I live in Maryland, USA). Im sure that most Ninjutsu Dojos in USA are all Americanized, and the teachers are most likeley just money hungry, thinking they are about to teach kids some karate lessons(:karate: Kick, Punch, Yell.......... :laugh: ) you get my point. I have never been in a Dojo before, but I am serious about this, and rather spend a couple of thousand on some real Ninjutsu Training, then pay 5$ for fake crap. I just need to know if In a certain Dojo you can pay them money to live there, then renting an apartment, because im am going to Japan strictley for Training. If you guys suggest I dont go all the way to japan just for training, then please suggest me some worthy Ninjutsu Dojos in Maryland or around the East cost please(if there are any...I doubt it).

Please, dont take this post as a joke because it is really important to me :bow:. Thank you for your time and help.

[deaf]

Well dude... dreams are meant to be accomplished and I wish you the best however I don't think you have really given it a whole lot of thought. Japan is NOT cheap! And if I am correct, you will need some sort of extended visa in order to stay in Japan for an extended period of time. There are other factors as well such as language barrier, customs etc.

There are a good deal of legitimate Bujinkan dojo with really good instructors available within the US. If needed, find a really good instructor and then just move to that state instead of a different country! :)

Check Winjutsu (http://winjutsu.com/winlinks.html) which is a directory listing of Bujinkan dojo. Hopefully you can find something close to you.

Good luck.

[4 winds]

Part of me agrees with Deaf but I dont really know how much real ninjitsu you can get at a place that advertises ninjitsu. Dont get me wrong Deaf I have trained at Bujinkan Dojos and they never asked me for money and I did learn some good things. But what our friend is talking about is not training 2 or 3 times a week from a guy who only teaches 2 or 3 times a week.He is talking about dedicating his life to training ninjitsu. I do think if you move to Japan to train ninjitsu you will find it there. There will be someone who recognizes your rare desire to commit yourself to the art that is considered sacred by many. However, I also believe you can find it here in the States. Not only that but you may find better training here. If you want to study traditional ancient ninjitsu (with ancient ways to dress and fight) Japan is the way to go. But if you consider ninjitsu to be an evolutionary art that is adaptable to today's world and you want to utilize it to be effective in the here and now then America is the best place on Earth to find it. Either way it will be a long difficult journey. Good luck and Godspeed.

[lisacoray]

Well, I certainly think that the goal of moving to Japan and living and training ninjutsu there is a good one; but I'm a little worried about your having decided to do it without ever having been in a dojo. What if you get there and don't like it? I've lived in Japan and though I loved it it wasn't always easy and it certainly was one of the more expensive things I've ever done! My advice, honestly, is train here in the US for awhile and figure out the basics. You'd probably want to learn what all the keys were on a piano before you took lessons from Beethoven... likewise, you'll be better off knowing *something* about kobudo and ninjutsu before you go spend lots of money to train with the best there are.

The three X-kan (Jinenkan, Bujinkan and Genbukan- organizations that study ninjutsu and related ryu-ha) all have dojos in the US. I train in the Jinenkan and I know there are two dojos in Maryland- one in Baltimore, with dojo-cho Amanda Charrier, and one in Olney, dojo-cho Scott Teague. They're both highly regarded and have trained extensively with Manaka Sensei (the head of the Jinenkan). Go to www.jinenkan.com and look up their contact info, visit, see what you think.

Good luck!

[stephenk]

Well,

You're only 18, which means you've got a few years to figure it out anyway. Probably the easiest way, from what I understand, to get a visa would be to work teaching English. I believe you're going to need a college degree for that.

From what I hear, teaching English has long hours that often are the same time as training (evenings etc...). But, it will get you in the country where you can bail and find other work.

So you've got four years or so, perfect! My suggestion:

1. Go to college and get an education in demand worldwide
2. Save money for the trip after you graduate.
3. Take some Japanese courses
4. Start training with someone with current ties to Japan

Now, even if you decide you don't want to go you still have:

1. A college education
2. Nest egg for after college
3. In demand language skills
4. Real martial arts experience

[fifthchamber]

You may also want to consider the Japanese VISA situation too..I do know that you can theoretically get a VISA that is viable for Keiko only (A cultural visa I believe it was named) but you may need to be a member of a dojo before you arrive for that to be given any consideration..A tourist VISA will not last you the year...And most other types of VISA will not allow you to work or allow only certain hours of work to you..This may be fine if you are rich..But if you are not VERY well off then you should consider this before saying you want to come here..I would ask your local Japanese embassy about the various types of VISA you can get if you wished to study budo here alone for a year..The choices may not be good..
Regards.

[Don Roley]

I live and train in Japan and I think the worst thing you could do is try to do the same right now.

You have no experience in the art, nor the country. To try to commit to a full year of both is...... I don't even know the word for that. You probably will find that real training is a lot different than what you thought. It is not all it is cracked up to be. And the culture shock alone might do you in.

Go to winjutsu.com and look in the yellow pages for a Bujinkan dojo or follow the suggestions already given here. Six months from now re-read this thread and be glad that you did not commit to anything before you even had a taste of the art. I am not saying that you will give up your idea, just that you will feel a lot better whatever your choice after a few months in an American dojo.

[genin77]

I was wander what lineage of ninjitsu/Ninjutsu any one knows about besides the popular master musaki.

[bencole]

But what our friend is talking about is not training 2 or 3 times a week from a guy who only teaches 2 or 3 times a week.He is talking about dedicating his life to training ninjitsu. (snip) If you want to study traditional ancient ninjitsu (with ancient ways to dress and fight) Japan is the way to go.

Um.... This is not Batman Begins. In the Bujinkan in Japan, Soke teaches 2-3 times a week. The Shihan teach 1-2 times a week at locations that can be as far away from each other as 2 hours by train. None of the Shihan teach full time.

Supposing you move to Japan to train, and supposing that you have infinite money and don't work, then you could train every day and "dedicate your life to training ninjitsu (sic)." Assuming that you will actually work, have friends/lovers, an apartment, and such, you will NOT be living a Hollywood fantasy. No mountain caves, no ninja garb stealing in Osaka Castle. Just training in a martial art in a modern city with modern transportation and modern people.


Im sure that most Ninjutsu Dojos in USA are all Americanized, and the teachers are most likeley just money hungry, thinking they are about to teach kids some karate lessons

Sure there are a lot of bad, money hungry teachers out there in every martial art, but there are also some absolutely AWESOME teachers as well. If you live in Maryland, I suggest you train with Chris Davy, if he is taking new students.

-ben

[Nin]

I live and train in Japan and I think the worst thing you could do is try to do the same right now.

You have no experience in the art, nor the country. To try to commit to a full year of both is...... I don't even know the word for that. You probably will find that real training is a lot different than what you thought. It is not all it is cracked up to be. And the culture shock alone might do you in.

Go to winjutsu.com and look in the yellow pages for a Bujinkan dojo or follow the suggestions already given here. Six months from now re-read this thread and be glad that you did not commit to anything before you even had a taste of the art. I am not saying that you will give up your idea, just that you will feel a lot better whatever your choice after a few months in an American dojo.

Wise words :bow: :bow:

Eugene, just my opinion but if you're looking for first hand information on that you can trust Don 100% (or more :) ).

About the culture thing a funny episode to me of the cartoon "The Simpsons" (I like "dumb" shows turning the brain off the life for a few minutes at least!): The Simpsons on a Japanese TV show. The Japanese guy to the family: "In your country, knowledge is rewarded... In OUR country, igorance is punished!" Homer Simpson: "Ignor what?!" :laugh:

Seriously you still have a load of time and things to live before making a real decision. Plus in the USA you can meet excellent instructors, not all of them are grand ninja supermasters able to turn invisible or jump buildings. :)

[4 winds]

Um.... This is not Batman Begins. In the Bujinkan in Japan, Soke teaches 2-3 times a week. The Shihan teach 1-2 times a week at locations that can be as far away from each other as 2 hours by train. None of the Shihan teach full time.

Thats probabally because no one that calls themself Shihan or advertises they teach ninjitsu here in the U.S really teaches ninjitsu. Most commercialized schools teach a lot of bullsheto. Ninjitsu is a deadly art tht is not available for the general public. By tradition ninjitsu is a very secretive art and would not be commercialized or advertised as ninjitsu. There may be some benefits to training at schools like these but for the most part you learn flashy stuff that is not even applicable in reality. I agree with the guy who said go to college first. There you should take as many psychology, botony, physics and chemestry courses you can. Ninjas were masters at these subjects and devoted many hours of study to them so they could use them effectively. The U.S has the best secondary education opportunities in the world and this should be taken advantage of. Meanwhile, you would also have time to study martial arts. You should study as many arts as possible. I suggest Jiu-Jjitsu, Mui thai and Kendo to start out. Kung Fu also has a lot to offer if you find the right school that can teach you chained weapons. You should also consider joining a branch of the armed services and tryout to become a navy seal, recon marine, army ranger etc. There you will learn a variety of skills including survival, combat (armed and unarmed) and physical conditioning. Ninja were highly trained, disciplined, educated, elite, deadly warriors not weekend warriors walking around in black masks and tabi boots. To get these basics down it will take you at least 8 years to complete college and military training. The journey will not always be easy but nothing worth doing ever is.

[Don Roley]

Thats probabally because no one that calls themself Shihan or advertises they teach ninjitsu here in the U.S really teaches ninjitsu. Most commercialized schools teach a lot of bullsheto. Ninjitsu is a deadly art tht is not available for the general public. By tradition ninjitsu is a very secretive art and would not be commercialized or advertised as ninjitsu.

Yoo hoo!!! Look over here!!! You remember me? The guy living in Japan and training in ninjutsu?

Well, as a person who can say that, I say that you do not know the first thing you are talking about.

Have a nice day.

[jakmak52]

I live and train in Japan and I think the worst thing you could do is try to do the same right now.

You have no experience in the art, nor the country. To try to commit to a full year of both is...... I don't even know the word for that. You probably will find that real training is a lot different than what you thought. It is not all it is cracked up to be. And the culture shock alone might do you in.

Go to winjutsu.com and look in the yellow pages for a Bujinkan dojo or follow the suggestions already given here. Six months from now re-read this thread and be glad that you did not commit to anything before you even had a taste of the art. I am not saying that you will give up your idea, just that you will feel a lot better whatever your choice after a few months in an American dojo. I agree with Don, he knows the score. :bandit:

[stephenk]

Thats probabally because no one that calls themself Shihan or advertises they teach ninjitsu here in the U.S really teaches ninjitsu. Most commercialized schools teach a lot of bullsheto. Ninjitsu is a deadly art tht is not available for the general public. By tradition ninjitsu is a very secretive art and would not be commercialized or advertised as ninjitsu. There may be some benefits to training at schools like these but for the most part you learn flashy stuff that is not even applicable in reality. I agree with the guy who said go to college first. There you should take as many psychology, botony, physics and chemestry courses you can. Ninjas were masters at these subjects and devoted many hours of study to them so they could use them effectively. The U.S has the best secondary education opportunities in the world and this should be taken advantage of. Meanwhile, you would also have time to study martial arts. You should study as many arts as possible. I suggest Jiu-Jjitsu, Mui thai and Kendo to start out. Kung Fu also has a lot to offer if you find the right school that can teach you chained weapons. You should also consider joining a branch of the armed services and tryout to become a navy seal, recon marine, army ranger etc. There you will learn a variety of skills including survival, combat (armed and unarmed) and physical conditioning. Ninja were highly trained, disciplined, educated, elite, deadly warriors not weekend warriors walking around in black masks and tabi boots. To get these basics down it will take you at least 8 years to complete college and military training. The journey will not always be easy but nothing worth doing ever is.



....Masks ON!

[bencole]

Ninjitsu is a deadly art tht is not available for the general public. By tradition ninjitsu is a very secretive art and would not be commercialized or advertised as ninjitsu.

Huh? You clearly have ZERO knowledge of Ninjutsu or its teachings via authentic sources. Batman Begins was just a movie. Believe me. As was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and American Ninja.

Listen to Don.

-ben

[bujingodai]

HEHE, its damn funny reading though.
Jeff Mueller teaches in your area go check him out. Baltimore has the Jinenkan as well as far as I remember.
As for moving to train full time, my biggest fear besides $$ would be culture. I'm going for a week this year, and imagine I will look like a complete idiot while I'm there. A year, without even getting the basics of reiho/saho. Not such a good idea. But your funny.

[BADSTALIN]

I had no idea you guys would help me this much, amazing and wise Advice :bow:. From what everyone here said, Dojos here in the US are not that bad as I made them out to be. I do have experience in Ninjutsu, but not from a Dojo, but from a 30 year old freind I used to have, who trained in Japan for a while
(He was in the army). He showed me some training they used to do in the Dojo, but not the hardcore stuff, because he thought I couldnt handle it. He recieved a custom made Katana sword from his sensei. Basically what Im saying is, I have a taste of what the training and culture is like in japan.

I will check out as much dojos as I can here in and around Maryland. If I cant find what im truly looking for, I will look for someone who has connections. I seriously thank everyone for helping me out :bow:

[4 winds]

I hope I didnt offend anyone by my posts about ninjitsu. Those who study it their respective versions should get as much or more respect than any other martial art. Of coarse anyone who studies under one of the commercialized styles available to the public at large are going to disagree. Like any martial art there is a sense of loyalty and reverence for the style and teachers you train under. But is ninjitsu really like every other martial art? Isnt it really the exception to the rules? My posts were only meant to help guide someone who has not yet devoted himself to a certain way of thinking or any certain style or instructor so I did not mean to offend anyone with what I know as the truth. If Badstalin only wants to study ninjitsu as a traditional martial art then I am out of line but if he wants to study ninjitsu as a ninja would today in 2006 then I was only trying to help. I do want to be corrected if I am mistaken though so if anyone who supposidly studies real ninjitsu incorporates using poisonous plants/animals, explosives, psychological warefare, the use of modern and traditional weapons(chigi rigi, metsubishi, bloguns, firearms etc), picking locks, moving silently through different kinds of surfaces and all those things ancient ninja were trained in and would use today then I am willing to admit I am wrong but I highly doubt it because commercialized schools must consider lawsuits and such.

[genin77]

I think Four Winds has good points. If you don't think that ancient arts were passed on to anyone accept Soke Matsumi then have you ever wandered Why? Many families probably want to keep their art and tradition gaurded. And there really isn't a way to find out.
I also agree that the seals are probably the closest to ancient ninja. Except for those other secret agencies we have any way of knowing about of course.

[Bugeisha]

Listen to Don.
The culture shock alone can be a kick in the behind. I went to Japan for just five months. I spoke passable Japanese and had previous training in JMA (albeit brief). I also had a support system and what have you in place before I got there. It was still very difficult to acclimate.






And if the culture shock doesn't get you, the ninja will.

[bencole]

Many families probably want to keep their art and tradition gaurded.

This type of talk becomes the basis for frauds. If you do not have ANY REAL UNDERSTANDING of the history of ninjutsu and its modern remnants, then please refrain from posting some Hollywood mumbo-jumbo. All it does is feed the idea that such "secret families" exist and that if "I reveal them to you, I will have to kill you." What a bunch of baloney.

-ben

[Don Roley]

Thanks Ben for being so blunt. I might have been less forgiving.

Let me point out that I have been looking into ninjutsu here in Japan for over ten years now. I would love to find another style of ninjutsu to compare with what we do. I have sat in on demos of other martial arts, bought their books, gone to seminars when I could- but can't do the same with ninjutsu because I can't find them.

Now, when I hear stories from people who can't read a Japanese newspaper who just stumbled across a ninjutsu teacher the rest of Japan does not know about, can you imagine how funny I find it? These guys are supposably so paranoid that they can't let anyone in Japan know they exist, and yet this guy found them? They don't want to let anyone know they exist, but have no problem with this guy teaching in America and posting on the internet?

There may be styles I do not know of. I honestly can't think of a reason that does not sound like a bad comic book as to why they would not be open about what they do. The Christians in Japan had to practice in secret on pain of death if they were discoverd. Yet when it became ok to be one, they came out from secrecy by the thousands. If they could be open, why would a ninja style be different? There are no ninja wars in Japan despite what some frauds try to say.

So if there is a ninja style still existing, there can be no excuse why the Japanese can't know about it but some guy in Mississippi can teach it openly.

[TonyU]

I usually stay out of these type of discussions, but if I may pose a question?

From my experience with dealing with the Okinawans I would think that due to the openess and no fear or reprisals, that if there was another form of ninjutus (as in different styles of karate), it would be close to dying.
Such that the head of the art would want to pass it along and not allow it to die.

Would this be a safe assumption, Don?

[4 winds]

Maybe that is what is happening. But I think its unlikely. There could be some families in Japan that pass it along to their descendents because they consider thier art sacred. I know this seems selfish in a way because they dont teach it to the public but isnt unique knowledge an advantage and isnt it important in ninjitsu to gain the advantage to survive? And wouldnt the style change with advancements in weapons and new innovations in armed and unarmed combat strategies and techniques? But why would this be? Would it be to prepare for a drastic change in society? Or for tradition? Modern Japan is so much different than fuedal Japan. There are no more ninja wars or lords paying out bounties on rival lords. And who exactly is Matsui? Maybe he can trace his bloodline to ninjas but since when do bloodlines mean anything in ninjitsu? Is he a businessman? Does he train people to defend themselves or does he train them to kill and maime thier enemies? And who would want to train in an art that emphasises assasination and espionage even if it means doing things considered dishonorable by other martial artists? Sorry to answer you post with a lot more questions but I think its important that these issues be explored if the truth should be revealed.

[Don Roley]

I usually stay out of these type of discussions, but if I may pose a question?

From my experience with dealing with the Okinawans I would think that due to the openess and no fear or reprisals, that if there was another form of ninjutus (as in different styles of karate), it would be close to dying.
Such that the head of the art would want to pass it along and not allow it to die.

Would this be a safe assumption, Don?

That is my view on things as well.

And as for everything that 4 winds wrote, it just does not make sense. You seem to have a very romantic notion of the art. I live in Japan with the reality.

And the reality is that there just is no decent reason for someone to keep their art a secret like that. Not teach people, maybe. But to conceal it's very existence sounds like a bad comic book.

And to believe that they would keep their art a secret here in Japan while people in America talk about it openly on the internet... you would have to be a complete moron to take that idea seriously.

[4 winds]

That is my view on things as well.

And as for everything that 4 winds wrote, it just does not make sense. You seem to have a very romantic notion of the art. I live in Japan with the reality.

And the reality is that there just is no decent reason for someone to keep their art a secret like that. Not teach people, maybe. But to conceal it's very existence sounds like a bad comic book.

And to believe that they would keep their art a secret here in Japan while people in America talk about it openly on the internet... you would have to be a complete moron to take that idea seriously.

Thats exactly my point. It doesnt make sense. To make sense out of all this its important to understand that ninjitsu practicioners have always survived by being secretive, deceptive and not following a set of rules. The existence of ninjitsu is not being concealed but it is being disguised. This is an old practice that has always been an important weapon in the arsenal of ninjitsu. It is wise to mislead the public into thinking their art is something different than it really is so when enemies train to fight them they are not prepared. The fact are in Japan does not necessarily give you the wisdom that is a trademark of the art you study. The art originated in Japan but that does not mean it is limited to or even still exists in Japan. Even if it did who says they would tell thier secrets they value so much to a foreigner. Contrary to the movie "The last Samauri" history has shown that the Japanese have never been that fond of foreigners. To suggest they would reveal the truth about an art that is built on deception runs contrary to Japanese culture and the art of ninjitsu. The truth may not always be what we want it to be but if we know the truth it is like a light that can guide us in this world of deception. :bow:

[David Craik]

It is often easy to tell who has actually lived in Japan and trained and who base their opinions on Sho Kasugi movies, anime, and Ashida Kim books.

[bencole]

To make sense out of all this its important to understand that ninjitsu practicioners have always survived by being secretive, deceptive and not following a set of rules.

What precisely are they trying to survive in modern Japan? An interested onlooker? Destruction by other secret ninja clans? :rolleyes:

There are extremely rare craft arts, ranging from housebuilding to kimono dyeing to wood carving to weapon smithing, sprinkled throughout Japan. These rare crafts are only taught to select individuals and are many times "kept within the family." But we know they exist, even if we could never learn them.

You are speaking of a Hollywood-esque world, wherein *NO ONE* outside of a man and his immediate kin has EVER heard anything about the art or craft. You are presenting the world that frauds use to sow their seeds of destruction upon the unsuspecting.


The art originated in Japan but that does not mean it is limited to or even still exists in Japan.

Fraud alert! Fraud alert!

Told me that I can now ignore everything you post. Thanks!

Let me guess: You are under 20 years of age and recently read the collection of Ashida Kim books, right? Gotcha! Opps. Just saw your age. 28 and you actually believe the stuff you are typing. Lord, have mercy!


The existence of ninjitsu is not being concealed but it is being disguised. This is an old practice that has always been an important weapon in the arsenal of ninjitsu.

Let me rephrase that: Are you sure you're not Ashida Kim? :D

-ben

[Jay Bell]

Thats exactly my point. It doesnt make sense. To make sense out of all this its important to understand that ninjitsu practicioners have always survived by being secretive, deceptive and not following a set of rules. The existence of ninjitsu is not being concealed but it is being disguised. This is an old practice that has always been an important weapon in the arsenal of ninjitsu. It is wise to mislead the public into thinking their art is something different than it really is so when enemies train to fight them they are not prepared. The fact are in Japan does not necessarily give you the wisdom that is a trademark of the art you study. The art originated in Japan but that does not mean it is limited to or even still exists in Japan. Even if it did who says they would tell thier secrets they value so much to a foreigner. Contrary to the movie "The last Samauri" history has shown that the Japanese have never been that fond of foreigners. To suggest they would reveal the truth about an art that is built on deception runs contrary to Japanese culture and the art of ninjitsu. The truth may not always be what we want it to be but if we know the truth it is like a light that can guide us in this world of deception. :bow:

Jason,

Just stop. Do you have any idea how silly you look right now? You're talking to two men (Don, Ben) that not only dedicated their lives to Ninjutsu, but moved to Japan for extended periods of time to do so.

Either go back to your comic books or take notes. One or the other...your posts are getting old.

[Bugeisha]

It is often easy to tell who has actually lived in Japan and trained and who base their opinions on Sho Kasugi movies, anime, and Ashida Kim books.

You've got that right. You can also tell who learned too much of their Japanese from anime when they're a college-aged guy who talks like a 12 year old girl.

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is often easy to tell who has actually lived in Japan and trained and who base their opinions on Sho Kasugi movies, anime, and Ashida Kim books.

How true!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

[4 winds]

I almost had you there didnt I? It was only a test. I didnt think you would fall for it though. If you dedicate your life to studying something that someone calls ninjitsu and discover that you may have been decieved and wasted much of your life and money you would have to admit you are vulnerable to deception. Let me justify myself.

1) if you want to be a ninja go to the local business called the "ninja school" or go to Japan and train under someone who can trace their bloodline back to a ninja. Bloodlines are important because it excludes so many. THis is elitist and as we all know ninjas were elitists and they love oppression by the elite.

2) The only real ninjas are Japanese and Japan is the best place to learn ninjitsu (elitism again). If you go to Japan they accept all Americans with open arms and take you in like in the Last Samauri. They love Westerners especially Americans.

3) Its easy to find ninjas. They advertise on the net, or yellow pages and they teach their art to the public.

Now that the Shirade is up I guess I can go back to my fantasy world. A world that ninjitsu is the same as it was in Fuedal Japan. A world where the art was sacred and not commercialized. A world where training ninjitsu meant training in the art of deception, asassination and espionage, a world where ninja would never wear ninja uniforms or even concern themselves with doing things for the sake of tradition, a world where ninjitsu is a dynamic art that adapts and continues to strengthen with time........*Sigh*

[Don Roley]

Jason,

Just stop. Do you have any idea how silly you look right now? You're talking to two men (Don, Ben) that not only dedicated their lives to Ninjutsu, but moved to Japan for extended periods of time to do so.

Either go back to your comic books or take notes. One or the other...your posts are getting old.

Now you made Jason bitter and sarcastic!

[4 winds]

:laugh:

Beware the sarcastic wrath of Jason...Lol