View Full Version : Rape Avoidance
Luebbers
04-01-2006, 10:44
A friend emailed me this. I have no idea if it is legit or not, but it's pretty interesting. I figured if it is for real, this is some pretty good advice to dispense. And, if it's not for real, this would be the place to find out.
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A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what
they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts
:
1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They
are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other
hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a
woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.
2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women
who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors
around specifically to cut clothing.
3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their
purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard
and can be easily overpowered.
4) Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between
5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.
5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery
store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number
three is public restrooms.
6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman
and quickly move her to another location where they don't have to worry
about getting caught.
7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year
sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.
8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged
because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going
after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.
9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or
other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.
Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the
attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys
you're not worth it.
10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following
behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or
stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time
is it, or make general small talk: "I can't believe it is so cold out
here", "we're in for a bad winter." Now you've seen their face and could
identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.
11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you
and yell STOP or STAY BACK! Most of the rapists this man talked to said
they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be
afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.
12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it
and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and
holding it out will be a deterrent.
13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can
by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind,
pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit)
OR in the upper inner thigh VERY VERY HARD. One woman in a class this
guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying
to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore
out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in
those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.
14) After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN. I know from a
particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is
extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make
him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our
instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of
trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.
15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers
and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down
on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much
pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.
16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of
your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any
odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts!!!
You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if
the guy really was trouble.
Southwell
04-01-2006, 11:09
Some of the advice sounds good, I would be interested in more ideas and info on what to teach in a womens self defence course, any and all info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Cliff Hargrave
04-01-2006, 11:11
Sounds like BS to me. With the exception of serial rapist and killers, who are very small percentage, most rapist don't spend a whole lot of time planning anything. They take advantage of the situation at hand.
Women are still more likely to get raped by someone they know. Even the "stranger" rapes usually have some sort of connection, same apartment complex, saw them at a store repeatedly, etc. The whole "pick someone out of a crowd" senario is extremely rare. Even more rare are the ones that just come up and attack. They usually find a way to talk themselves into a situation where they are close and alone with the victim then attack brutally. The stranger rapist do prey on the weak though, kids, old people, women that live alone, etc.
I am not an expert, but I agree with Cliff, this SOUNDS like BS. The first seven or eight items sound like there would be objective data available to cross check. Finally, why would the guy stop with the interview and not contact law enforcement and rape prevention/crisis centers for confirmation of the story? Seems like they would be very interested in the information, too.
The detailes on techniques to use makes it sound even more bogus because it's too scripted. Sounds like it's from an advertisement for a course someone is selling.
Gordon Nore
04-01-2006, 13:34
12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.
Cliff,
You've stated that you don't think much of the rape prevention suggestions posted above. This one stuck out in my mind as a particulary bad strategy. I would think it unwise for a victim to announce s/he has pepper spray and show it to the attacker, rapist or whatever. Your thoughts...
Cliff Hargrave
04-01-2006, 13:49
I have a problem annoucing any weapon. If it needs to be used, they need to feel it before they see it. I compare that to saying "I am about to kick you in the nuts." Why give them the warning?
I have a problem annoucing any weapon. If it needs to be used, they need to feel it before they see it. I compare that to saying "I am about to kick you in the nuts." Why give them the warning?
I agree. It's akin to when you're in confontational situations and you make fists and put your hands up...why do this? You're saying, 'Ok, I'm gonna show you what I got, and I expect you to show me what you got', you completely loose the element of surprise.
Also, if you announce it, you're loosing tactfully too b/c now (even if you do or you dont have mace) he [the attacker] knows what he'll 'need' to do in order to prevent you from using it...so if he's ready and willing, you've just added fuel to the fire. Why give that away? Burn him with it instead.
George Alexander wrote one time about how he was giving a 'realistic' (not meaning to question Mr. Alexander, just wasn't there) knife attack demonstration. Instead of a knife, he gave his opponent a permanent marker to show wounds and told him to have at it. His opponent was a sandan (again for what its worth) so Alexander knew with his students watching this man would not go easy. George sustained 6 'slashes' (2 which would have been fatal) before he was able to subdue his opponent. Imagine what would've happened if he didn't know his opponent had a knife.
Gordon Nore
04-01-2006, 14:52
I have a problem annoucing any weapon. If it needs to be used, they need to feel it before they see it. I compare that to saying "I am about to kick you in the nuts." Why give them the warning?
Cliff and Adam,
Thanks for your insights. Your posts reminded me of the classic line from Billy Jack. Now I'm gonna have to rent it tonight:
You know what I think I'm gonna do then? Just for the hell of it? I'm gonna take this right foot, and I'm gonna whop you on that side of your face... and you wanna know something? There's not a damn thing you're gonna be able to do about it.
Forgive me if this has been posted a gozillion times -- I couldn't resist.
Cliff and Adam,
Thanks for your insights. Your posts reminded me of the classic line from Billy Jack. Now I'm gonna have to rent it tonight:
Forgive me if this has been posted a gozillion times -- I couldn't resist.
Ha...I like the adaptation from 'Major Payne' instead...kind of more fitting for this discussion.
On a side note, I hate that Billy Jack movie. Boring, boring, boring. One good line, some bad fight scenes, and that's about it. I remember (don't know if he still does) when Bong So Han had his hapkido tapes with Panther that he bragged about being in Billy Jack and how some people thought those fight scenes were the best of all time....
I would very much like to meet "those" people, cause we gotta talk...
Gordon Nore
04-01-2006, 15:48
Ha...I like the adaptation from 'Major Payne'...
...Billy Jack movie. Boring, boring, boring. One good line, some bad fight scenes, and that's about it...
No argument here. I watch two scenes: the one I mentioned above, and the I just go berserk scene, and then I put the movie away and try to figure out how exactly the "Ex-Green Beret karate expert" who defends flower children and protects horses from being turned into dog food ever spoke to me in my youth.
I'll take your recommendation and watch Major Payne instead.
Thanks for indulging my digression from the thread topic. :bow:
I received the same e-mail and I did hang on to it to go over with my daughter.
I don't completely buy it, but I think there are some good points to be made about situation awareness, looking confident, making eye contact with strangers, etc.
I learned the same as you all, that in most cases the woman will recognize their attacker - not necessarily KNOW their attacker, but at least recognize him as someone seen before.
Don't mention it (the digression)...but back to the subject. And this might be getting touchy...but whenever my Sensei teaches women's self defense classes (I assist her) and we always get the question - "What if they have a gun?" our answer is always the same: give them what they want. How does everyone else feel?
Her reasoning behind this (she was a police officer for many years in FL), is that if they have a gun (and lets throw out the assuming its unloaded argument, criminals don't bring sticks to knife fights), you have to make a choice of - is whatever that is about to happen worth getting shout/killed for, b/c otherwise that's most likely the outcome with an ensuing struggle.
Keep in mind that this question preceeds the 'Am I going to defend myself, and if so, how' question. If you choose to fight an armed assalant, then you're saying you would rather be shot than raped, and that is your right...at this stage in the game we go into techniques about how to get the gun on you (i.e. touching at least some part of your body so you know where it is, and then how to go from there)...and of course you can always 'try' to catch the hammer, but outside of that there are very few options.
What say you?
I have heard excellent arguements on both sides.
The first arguement is as you say. A victim stands little to no chance against a [presumed] loaded gun.
There is also a belief that a victim stands a strong chance of being killed anyway, why be tortured first. I haven't heard that arguement used as much frequently, but for a while it was the prevailing attitude towards rapes by an armed assailant.
Musubi Dojo
04-01-2006, 18:51
Since nobody else has said it yet, the Gift of Fear by Debecker is great resource about this kind of stuff.
I also think there's some pretty bad advice in the list. (always go for the groin, announce that you have a weapon etc...)
Cheers
c
bvermillion
04-01-2006, 19:36
Avoiding or deterring the attack should always be the first thing you do even before you leave your house. But sometimes attacks can't be avoided and that is why I feel women and anyone else who wants to protect themselves should carry a weapon capable of killing someone. Whether it be a knife, gun or blunt object. When someone is planning on causing you serious bodily harm or killing you, you have to be able to realize it and be willing to do whatever means necessary to defend yourself even if it means killing the attacker.
David Craik
04-02-2006, 09:04
' "always" go for the groin' is my vote for Rape Defense Cliché of the Century.
Gene Williams
04-02-2006, 09:20
' "always" go for the groin' is my vote for Rape Defense Cliché of the Century.
Actually, in a life or death empty hand scenario, the eyes would be one of my very first targets. :bow:
David Craik
04-02-2006, 09:49
"Kick him in the n*ts" is so oft-repeated to women I'm pretty sure that's the first place he's going to guard. I know I would. Not to say it isn't a valid target, but "always" is a bit sweeping.
Gene Williams
04-02-2006, 10:16
I know, I used to tell my women, "remember, "nuts" spelled backward is "stun." But, we were wrestling with a very large, agitated, difficult YDC inmate once who was biting, kicking, etc. I got tired of fooling with him and kicked him square in the nuts...hard...and it just made him grunt and fight harder. Of course, in that case you can't blind him (I got in trouble for kicking him).
bvermillion
04-02-2006, 10:30
I know, I used to tell my women, "remember, "nuts" spelled backward is "stun." But, we were wrestling with a very large, agitated, difficult YDC inmate once who was biting, kicking, etc. I got tired of fooling with him and kicked him square in the nuts...hard...and it just made him grunt and fight harder. Of course, in that case you can't blind him (I got in trouble for kicking him).
Thats when a good choke hold is useful. If you can't breathe you can't fight. Especially if you are out cold.
Eliz, or anyone else that knows,
Can I ask what proportion of rapes end in the victim being killed? And does this proportion change depending on if the rapist is unknown to the victim, if he is armed, if the rape is male-male, etc.
But sometimes attacks can't be avoided and that is why I feel women and anyone else who wants to protect themselves should carry a weapon capable of killing someone. Whether it be a knife, gun or blunt object.
Then what about the statistics showing that most people involved in injury/death with dangerous weapons happened when the weapon was something they owned themselves? (just playing Devil's Advocate here)
Also, Gene, my sensei had a similiar encounter when she was a cop with someone high on PCP....straight shot as hard as she could to the nuts - absolutely no results.
As for the choking...well that could become a legal matter if you're a cop..but if you have no other option and the situation (i.e. no of his 'friends around' allows it sure.
...as for the eyes...I have a friend that has been a bouncer in the bar district in Columbia for quite some time that I used to tussle (agreeingly) with. He was so frustrating b/c he had 2 moves: his first would be a strike of some kind (to stun), followed up by his very next and favorite move: a thumb to the eye (not striking but for pressure). Man that can give you a headache!
littlecelt
04-02-2006, 14:20
What on earth makes you think that a group of bored, convicted rapists are going to give some do-gooder researcher who comes into their prison, anything close to the truth? Let’s see, the game of cat and mouse comes to mind real quick! The little researcher gets to publish his paper and get his degree (or whatever) and the cons have had a couple of weeks of pure fun, time out of their normal routine, etc., etc… Oh yeah, I really trust that study.
If you’re really interested in anything close to the truth try these links:
RAINN - Rape, Abuse, Incest and National Network (http://www.rainn.org/statistics/punishing-rapists.html)
Arming Women Against Rape and Endangerment (AWARE) (http://www.aware.org/)
Social Statistics Briefing Room (http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/ssbr.html), you can select demography, crime, etc...
Funny thing about these sites, the stats have been verified.
There are a lot things that we can all sit around and debate..; rape is not one those topics. What if someone actually took that post seriously? What if they saw it before Cliff called it the BS that it really is? Before everyone gets upset, I'm referring to how easily we post 'information' without checking it. Take a look at this thread, and consider where it's posted and how it's being discussed. How many women are joining this thread? So far just Elizabeth and I have participated, and it's no woder why. I think it's good to have men participate, but you guys should think about the way this is coming off from a woman's perspective.
There are much more accurate indicators on RAINN’s site if anyone’s interested. If you really want to find out what to do, then you should arrange a presentation with your local PD. This is a service they offer and wish more people took advantage of – for all ages.
Also contact your local Women’s Shelters, they’ll share information on random violence as well as domestic.
Then what about the statistics showing that most people involved in injury/death with dangerous weapons happened when the weapon was something they owned themselves? (just playing Devil's Advocate here)
Also, Gene, my sensei had a similiar encounter when she was a cop with someone high on PCP....straight shot as hard as she could to the nuts - absolutely no results.
As for the choking...well that could become a legal matter if you're a cop..but if you have no other option and the situation (i.e. no of his 'friends around' allows it sure.
...as for the eyes...I have a friend that has been a bouncer in the bar district in Columbia for quite some time that I used to tussle (agreeingly) with. He was so frustrating b/c he had 2 moves: his first would be a strike of some kind (to stun), followed up by his very next and favorite move: a thumb to the eye (not striking but for pressure). Man that can give you a headache!What are those statistics, Adam? I have heard them alluded to, but never seen them. Do they exist, I wonder?
AS for favourite spots to strike, I would recommend that everyone have one or two, but never stop at thos spots in case they don't work. The last serious street fight I had was witha fellow on some sort of drug that made him immune to the pain of groin and eye strikes (I drew blood on the latter). It was basic koshi garuma that returned the advantage to me by laying him on the curb. I am not a big believer in pain doing much for a true street fight.
fightgrrl
04-02-2006, 16:31
You beat me to the punch on the Gift of Fear, Chris...must read book for all.
Also the guys who put together the RAP(Rape Awareness and Prevention) program have a ton of good stats backing up their stuff, too.
The opener does not at all sound correct. Stranger rape was less than 30% of reported rape in Mass. for 2002. And stranger rape is much MORE likely to be reported than "familiar" rape...SO that 30% is certainly artificially high.
People are all concerned about dealing with strangers when MOST rapists are people they know. One of the toughest parts of defense in a "common rape" scenario is ACTIVELY defending yourself against someone you know.
If a close relative/friend/coworker is forcing themself on you, are you gonna MACE him? Or groin kick or even poke in the eyes?
We only hear about the odd, brutal stranger stuff, because it makes dynamic news. It also makes it tough to convince people of the reality.
Big rape avoidance advice for Boston is don't get drunk alone or with 'guys' you don't know well...the seasonal college student population/club crowd is full of some pretty bad stories.
littlecelt
04-02-2006, 17:42
Big rape avoidance advice for Boston is don't get drunk alone or with 'guys' you don't know well...the seasonal college student population/club crowd is full of some pretty bad stories.
The Sacremento Bee did an extensive expose on the UC system and the number of 'reported' assaults vs. how many actually took place. It talks about how the universities, partner organizations and emergency responders don't have to report sexual assaults as 'assaults' or notify the police, even when there are injuries.
A SACRAMENTO BEE SPECIAL REPORT (http://www.sacbee.com/static/archive/news/projects/ucrape/0924d.html)
This even has some of the other statistics that were being requested earlier.
Hope it helps.
... How many women are joining this thread? So far just Elizabeth and I have participated, and it's no woder why. I think it's good to have men participate, but you guys should think about the way this is coming off from a woman's perspective.
I like hearing a man's perspective on some of the women's threads. Many of our members are a wealth of information and I have truly learned a lot. With that said, I also wish more women would become more active in the women's threads. Thanks for making that point.
Big rape avoidance advice for Boston is don't get drunk alone or with 'guys' you don't know well...the seasonal college student population/club crowd is full of some pretty bad stories.
That is good advice, especially for younger adults. On campus' in this area, they have also added to the guys, "If she doesn't say the actual word Y-E-S, than it is no." I like the fact that they are now addressing the guys on their responsibilities, and yes, how to protect themselves from pitfalls.
If you’re really interested in anything close to the truth try these links:
RAINN - Rape, Abuse, Incest and National Network (http://www.rainn.org/statistics/punishing-rapists.html)
Arming Women Against Rape and Endangerment (AWARE) (http://www.aware.org/)
Social Statistics Briefing Room (http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/ssbr.html), you can select demography, crime, etc...
Funny thing about these sites, the stats have been verified.
I'm assuming that the statistics will roughly correlate between the UK and US. Some of those statistics (here (http://www.rainn.org/statistics/punishing-rapists.html)) are ****ing shocking. I was frankly, a little surprised to see that 10% of victims are male; I thought it would be lower.
Thanks for the links, Little Celt.
Yours,
-a Big Celt (especially around the mid-level).
As a survivor of an armed assault, in my home, by a stranger attempting rape...I can tell you that I personally have no interest in the 'rape' aspect. It is the 'assault' and possible abduction and loss of life that I think people should be focused on. It is why I study weapons, karate, and keep my mind open for new data (such as reading these forums, the above links, and recently trying a RAD course).
As a survivor of an armed assault, in my home, by a stranger attempting rape...I can tell you that I personally have no interest in the 'rape' aspect. It is the 'assault' and possible abduction and loss of life that I think people should be focused on. It is why I study weapons, karate, and keep my mind open for new data (such as reading these forums, the above links, and recently trying a RAD course).
Great point! :)
Too frequently we have a tendency to address the 'rape aspect,' and ignore or brush over the other dangers involved. That is a flaw frequently found in many women's self defense classes in that the class BEGINS with the attempt to rape. Even the main focus point of society is on the actual rape.
Thanks!
such as reading these forums, the above links, and recently trying a RAD course).
I also took a RAD class...and I found the information part to be very useful/informative. The self defense parts were well thought out, but I found that without the regular practice afforded by going to a regularly scheduled class the moves didn't stick with me. What were your thoughts on the information/format of the class?
Mas Jessica Brawner
My thoughts were posted on another forum. (I hope it is okay with the mods/admin if I post a link here?)
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=8&Number=15833252&page=0&fpart=all
My thoughts were posted on another forum. (I hope it is okay with the mods/admin if I post a link here?)
http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=8&Number=15833252&page=0&fpart=all
:laugh: Yea, we'll forgive you. Kidding! It is fine.
Enjoyed the discussion. Seems these programs bring mixed opinions on their effectiveness. Have you taken the course yet?
? Yes (see thread). Unless you mean the advanced course...exposing women to multiple/simultaneous attackers and weapons? No, not yet. I tore a Rotator Cuff and am unsure as to whether I should participate in a more strenuous workshop.
I also injured myself during the RAD workshop that I took I have no idea what I actually did, but I couldn't move my neck for about 4 days and had to take muscle relaxants. Judging by your posts on the other thread, it sounds like we had very similar experiences with the class, though I don't remember if they offered a more advanced class in my area.
Mas Jessica Brawner
Just to clarify: I did not injure myself during the RAD class. I wouldn't want any woman to read my post and decide against taking a SD course thinking they might get hurt.
I guess I should add, as well, that my injury was not because of anything the instructors did or didn't do. It was completely my own fault.
I wouldn't want any woman to read my post and decide against taking a SD course thinking they might get hurt.
I do however think anyone thinking about SD classes should accept the possibility of accidental injury...the instructors try their best to prevent it, but as with any physical activity, it can happen.
Mas Jessica
As a survivor of an armed assault, in my home, by a stranger attempting rape...I can tell you that I personally have no interest in the 'rape' aspect. It is the 'assault' and possible abduction and loss of life that I think people should be focused on. It is why I study weapons, karate, and keep my mind open for new data (such as reading these forums, the above links, and recently trying a RAD course).
To add to what Elizabeth said, the above quote from Narda is one of the most important statements in this entire thread (other than outing the original list of "statistics" as being largely innacurate).
Rape is an act of violence. It should be approached as such when discussing the principles and techniques of self-defense. KISS principle applies.
Jeff Cook
Baka Gaijin
05-06-2006, 14:32
What they really should of asked is how many of them wear a jock.
Statistics like that accurate or inaccurate doesn't really help. The only thing it will do is scare those people who's allready frightend. Some of the problem, I think, is that some people think (mostly girls in this case) they can't fight back. Now who taught them that.. As any predator they're likely to single out the weakest in the pack. Don't be that person. Strength is determination.. desperation, survival instinct. It's not body mass.
zatojoshi
05-06-2006, 16:40
My added thoughts....(as you all are so knowledgeable anyway!)
The best defense is prevention. I agree that there's too much emphasis on the "rape" aspect and not on the survival. But, anyways, because the rapes we hear about tend to be in the college crowd, there is where I direct my advice for prevention (this isn't just for rape, but for kidnap/murder too):
1. DON'T get so blaringly drunk that you don't remember your own name. Your best defenses are the senses you already have (sight, sound, etc) and if you're so drunk you can't listen to your inhibitions, you're a sitting duck.
2. DO travel in groups. Remember the buddy system? There's a reason you were made to do that as a kid. When you travel in groups, you have safety system. And, even if you are attacked, there's a good chance one of you can get away and call for help.
3. DON'T leave your drink unattended at a party. Also, watch your drink being made, instead of having one brought to you.
4. DON'T dress provocatively. You advertise, someone will buy.
5. DON'T provoke situations. Again, listen to your instincts. If someone tries to start something, let cool heads prevail and walk away. If the situation seems to follow you (i.e. harassment over the phone, road rage, whatever) , that's when you call the cops and let them handle it. Use martial arts AS A LAST RESORT!
6. DO stay out of places you know will be trouble. If there's a brawl at a particular frat house or bar every day, don't go. It'll only be a matter of time before you are swept into trouble. Same thing goes with hanging out with people of trouble. If friend X likes to deal drugs at 3am, chances are high something will happen.
7. DO ask for help. I don't know the statistics specifically, but it's pretty high that violent confrontations happen only after several little confrontations do. People say all the time that "Wife A and Husband B fought all the time" and I wonder why something wasn't done until after husband B stabbed her.
These are all fairly common sense rules to go by, and remarkably, many girls/women have come up to my instructors after class and say, "Wow, I would have never thought of doing that."
I have experience in surviving an "attack". I had a verbally manipulative ex-boyfriend who started small with IM harrassment and quickly escalated into stalking and breaking my things. It finally got to the point where he was drunk one night and grabbed me (he outweighted me by 200 pounds) with a bear hug. I had enough sense to kick him in the shins and ran. This was before I started karate, mind you.
Rule number 1: Sorry but there are no rules. It seems like most of rules address behavior at parties and afterward. Although many college rapes happen at parties and afterward not all do. Life just isn't this simple. There are things you can do which will decrease the odds of getting attacked.
As ex-party girl who avoided being attacked while partying. Here are some of my thoughts on your rules.
1. DON'T get so blaringly drunk that you don't remember your own name. Your best defenses are the senses you already have (sight, sound, etc) and if you're so drunk you can't listen to your inhibitions, you're a sitting duck.
Yes, and no.
Most people don't like to get puked on. Generally, when men think you are about to hurl they will leave you alone. Back in my party days, one of my favorite ruses when trying to escape uncomfortable situations was to act drunker than I actually was. It also gives a great excuse for being loud which attackers don't like. Singing loudly off-key makes you the center of attention also people will think its funny and invite you to more parties. Not to mention how disorienting it is for people/would-be attackers when you can "sober-up" in a matter of seconds.
Its safer not to drink around people you don't know. Drug assisted rapes are on the rise. These days I am very careful about who I drink around and even more careful about who I party with.
2. DO travel in groups. Remember the buddy system? There's a reason you were made to do that as a kid. When you travel in groups, you have safety system. And, even if you are attacked, there's a good chance one of you can get away and call for help.
This assumes you can trust the group...
3. DON'T leave your drink unattended at a party. Also, watch your drink being made, instead of having one brought to you.
Eat and drink before going to a party. This will slow down absoption of alcohol so you don't get as a drunk, as quickly.
4. DON'T dress provocatively. You advertise, someone will buy.
Dressing provocatively can also make you the center of attention. It is difficult to rape someone when all eyes are on them. Instead of trying to second guess what some loser will find provative - I think its more important to dress comfortablely in something I know I can move (run or fight) in. If I can't run in my shoes I make sure that I can get them off- additionally walking home barefoot from parties was one of eccentricities/strategies.
Rape is about control not about sex. How a person looks or dresses has very little to do with if they are targeted. Confidence and caution are your allies.
5. DON'T provoke situations. Again, listen to your instincts. If someone tries to start something, let cool heads prevail and walk away. If the situation seems to follow you (i.e. harassment over the phone, road rage, whatever) , that's when you call the cops and let them handle it. Use martial arts AS A LAST RESORT!
A major part of marital arts is learning to use the appropriate response for appropriate situations. Walking away sometimes is the right response, however, most wormen get attacked from the back so it isn't always. Turning your back on an angry man is a bad idea. Sometimes, laughing at the situation works. Sometimes singing loudly does the trick. Sometimes, being quiet is the right response and sometimes staring him down is. A few times I've gotten close to obnoxious guys and used pressure points (subtely so nobody else caught on) to show that I know how to inflict pain. Sometimes getting the authorities. And knowing that when you fight it is the right thing to do is invaluable. The police can't help you if you are dead and there is only so much they can do for you after a rape or an assault.
6. DO stay out of places you know will be trouble. If there's a brawl at a particular frat house or bar every day, don't go. It'll only be a matter of time before you are swept into trouble. Same thing goes with hanging out with people of trouble. If friend X likes to deal drugs at 3am, chances are high something will happen.
This is good advice. Be very careful about who you consider your friend. Just because they indulge in a dangerous activity doesn't mean that you should join them.
7. DO ask for help. I don't know the statistics specifically, but it's pretty high that violent confrontations happen only after several little confrontations do. People say all the time that "Wife A and Husband B fought all the time" and I wonder why something wasn't done until after husband B stabbed her.
Domestic violence is a whole different ball game which I don't have the energy to address. If someone is "not getting the hint" that you are not interested in them and are harassing you then don't be nice. Make it very clear that you aren't interested. If they continue to bother don't fool around get a restaining order.
The warning about dressing provocatively is total bunk. How do you know what turns on a wacko? There are people into weird shoes, bald women, etc. Debra's right about the power thing. Why do we buy in to the weirdo's view of the world to debate a woman trying to survive?
i think dressing provocatively doesn't help.
Especially around the drunk college crowd. Guys notice you for a reason. Some of them just aren't good guys.
Sheesh, ladies. Show your skin and it will bring male attention. Dress from head to toe, and yet other - imaginative - guys will be attracted.
The moral of the story? :eek: Stay home. Just kidding! :laugh:
I really don't think dressing in a prevocative manner invites rape.
I do, however, stress to my daughter about proper appearance and social perceptions. I think that [social perception] is where the lines get a little muddled. It may not invite rape, but it will certainly invite the wrong attention.
zatojoshi
05-09-2006, 16:32
Alright, enough. Sorry I even posted. :mad:
"Rules" was a bad choice of word. How about "suggestions", is that okay? All I meant the list to be was to be helpful and not say that such-and-such will most definitely get you raped/beaten/murdered/whatever. I never said you shouldn't not have a drink or dress a certain way. The original point of my post was, you can prevent certain things from happening if you make conscious decision choices. And yes, sometimes it's just not preventable. That's not what we're discussing- at least, that's not what I thought we were discussing.
Josie, you didn't do anything wrong. No reason for you to apologize. This is a hot topic for many, thus the strong wording. And disagreement with your comments certainly is allowed.
Your point about making correct choices is right on the money.
Jeff Cook
Alright, enough. Sorry I even posted. :mad:
"Rules" was a bad choice of word. How about "suggestions", is that okay? All I meant the list to be was to be helpful and not say that such-and-such will most definitely get you raped/beaten/murdered/whatever. I never said you shouldn't not have a drink or dress a certain way. The original point of my post was, you can prevent certain things from happening if you make conscious decision choices. And yes, sometimes it's just not preventable. That's not what we're discussing- at least, that's not what I thought we were discussing.
I second Jeff C. post. You brought up a lot of good points about smart choices. Rape is a very broad subject and what is true in one instance may not be true in another.
Consequently, we ALL receive very mixed messages about preventative measures - hence my post. Everything you said, I have heard. Everything Debra said, I have also heard. And yet both of your posts were very contrary to the other.
Hello to all.
I am new to this forum, infact this is the first thread I opened. It's a question I have been asked many times over the last 30 years. I offer my apologies right off if I offend anyone and I am sure I will. My experience in the martial arts is extensive in both theory and practice.
"How can a person prevent rape/act of violence?"...
You can't, it's as painfull as that. If I was of the mind(or mental disturbance) to commit rape there is no woman in the world or for that matter 95% of the men who could stop it. If a scumbag is determined he'll win.
Fortunately, I'm not a scumbag and most scumbags aren't a determine lot. So my answer to the question is "If you can't prevent it, make sure you respond in the most lethal way possible"... then run
Josie, I am sorry that my post made you feel that way. I've been on this board for several years (gasp :eek: ) and what makes it valuable when I have to rethink my opinion based on what someone else writes. I could have worded my last post less harshly but, I just really get sick of "just do this and you'll be perfectly safe" messages that aren't true. While I don't think it was your intent at all, they always seem just one logical step short of telling victems that its their fault and that is a really hot button thing with me.
Jamie, I don't know you or your skill level but I do know that overconfidence is a very dangerous thing. However, I agree that if someone is truelly determined or desparate enough to commit a crime than they will (at least attempt) to commit that crime. Most criminals are looking for an easy target not a challenge, and commit crimes because they think they can and that they will get away with it.
Also looks can be decieving.
I seem to see two fairly distinct topics within this very interesting thread.
The first, which seems to have come to predominate the discusssion (which is fine), is what I guess you can call "date rape". The second, which I think is what the original poster had in mind, is what I'd call plain ol' rape, for lack of a better term (hope this doesn't offend anybody).
I usually think of date rape as being motivated by sexual desire. Of course, that doesn't make it any more acceptable than the other type of rape.
One usually sees the other type of rape described as being motivated not by sexual desire, but by a psychotic urge to control and victimize a woman. This to me is, in certain important respects, a very different animal from date rape. This probably also explains to some degree why 25-year-old rapists attack 80-year-old women and eight-year-old girls.
Do you think it makes sense for a woman to have different defenses in mind for these two different types of rape? Do you think either type is more avoidable than the other?
Yes. The thread really should be seperated into seperate topics.
Do you think it makes sense for a woman to have different defenses in mind for these two different types of rape?
poetic misjustice
06-22-2006, 07:53
I read the results of rape on the RAINN site, and i immediatley felt sorry for rape victims, i don't know any rape victims so i can't begin to imagine what they go through emotionally. I've always despised rapists, they are one of the lowest forms of people out there. Anyway my sensei and I have put out heads together and we've decided to ask the local police constabulary if they would assist us in raising awareness to our female students, all we can do is teach them how to defend themselves from certain situations, we can't give them facts and figures. Also another poit i'd like to add, does anyone know if it's possible to do criminal record checks with the local constabulary on new members because the thought of teaching an ex rapist martial arts really does make my skin crawl.
Any more information of raising awareness would be greatly appreciated, we're only a small organisation so there is only so much we can do to help women defend themselves.
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