Punishment!

[three60roundhouse]

I am an assistant instrucor at my dojang, and often I am given a group of riled up kids, hard to deal with kids, or avery small group which I am responsible for teaching something basic and new.

Now, when a kid JUST WON"T LIStEN, what do I do? I mean, I have a large group of kids who call me "sir" - I am a female, I prefer "Ma'am" or simply Krystyn. Well, leate;ly I've been doing pushups, and the kids seem to ENJOY THEM!? what the heck! How am I going to help discipline these darned kids?

[williamson]

If the student doesn't want to listen, kick them off the mat. One student should not hold the rest up from learning. The more time you spend telling a student to stand still, stop talking, or whatever it may be, the less time there is to teach and less the other students get to learn. Exercise should never be used as punishment. It sets up a situation that could lead a student to associate exercise with punishment and grow to hate exercising.

[Jeff Burger]

I use physical exercise...push ups , hold the top of the push up or horse stance(relative to rank). It has not caused a dislike of exercise , I think it matters how you bring it to them.
I dont do time out to often and when i do its out in the hall where they arent getting extra attention for the punishment...if I put them out its until there parent comes to get them or the end of class and they dont reenter until they do their push ups or horse stance.

I explain this to parents right from the start and its on our waiver cause we have had parents say they dont want their child being "tortured". Most of those kids have little or no discipline, you can see the difference in these kids right away.

I have a brother of a student who will be starting classes next month. Its obvious to us that he is going to be a problem behaviour wise.
We had the talk with his mom that we wont tolerate that kind of behaviour....she is in total agreement and says thats why she is bringing him in.
I also feel its a problem when parents bring their kids in cause they dont have any control over them and expect school and martial arts to raise their kids.

We had a student run through a ring at a tournament...one of our assistant instructors had them hold a push up until the division was over and then apologize to the group.
We ert lots of compliments about how well behaved and helpful our kids our at tournaments.

Tough love has always worked.

JMB

[Jason Chambers]

Progressive Discipline

1. Remove child from participation (3 times)

2. Meeting with parents & child (letter in file)

3. Rank Reduction

4. Suspension

5. Expulsion

[Bad Karma]

You need look no further than the parents to find out where the problem is. A general rule. I have used exercises before and then a progressive follow-up similar to Jason's. I always make it known I am NOT a day care center or babysitter. If it can't be reinforced at home, it's an uphill battle with 100 mph winds in your face knee deep in snow with a layer of ice underneath while pulling a dump truck with the parking and emergency brake engaged. Get the picture? ;)

Peace

[KenpoKev]

My program is structured like Jason's. When a student begins lessons, they receive the "Code of Etiquette" which is explained and enforced firmly. Feel free to steal it at www.vistaprimo.com :)

Always remember to praise loudly, criticize quietly, discipline without anger.

[Jeff Burger]

"Always remember to praise loudly, criticize quietly, discipline without anger."

Kevin thats good stuff...next time we update out teachers manual Im going to put that in there.

JMB

[warriorwoman]

I've taught adults and I've taught children both in martial arts and in English as a Second Language. I've had unruly kids and unruly adults and believe me when I tell you, I'd rather deal with unruly kids!

When I taught children English as a Second Language, it was in Thailand. I would just ask the student to leave the class and stand outside the door. Since corporal punishment is still practiced there, the kids at first couldn't believe why I would reward misbehavior in this way. They would happily go outside in order to escape having to study this required subject they had little interest in while the other students wished they could join them. But sooner or later a Thai teacher would find them in the hallway and start hitting them for being outside! Call me a coward, but after a couple of times, being asked to leave the class no longer held its original appeal!

Now, when I teach kids in martial arts, I am keenly aware of the peer pressure and competition kids have with each other. So, rather than allow an unruly student to comandeer a class to focus all attention on him/her, I will usually lavish a lot of attention on the student(s) that are behaving and hold them up for others to secretly hate, but eventually emulate. When this doesn't work or I feel there is more going on than mere misbehavior, I talk to the student and a parent, emphasizing that if the student is not cooperative, then he/she will be asked to leave. Remember, you owe it to the students who are behaving to take action in regard to the one(s) that are not. Children have an acute sense of justice and I believe it should be reinforced.
janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman.org

[fightgrrl]

more a parental discipline issue...

looking for balance suggestions for the attention starved students...most of our students are blue collar/public housing, from some type of broken home--single mom, parents are junkies/recovery, too many other kids around...no discipline or order at home...
and then there's Mr Tries too hard...the yuppie kid...
LOVES karate... a real gi sleeper...
he starts class, tries hard and is doing really well, with that comes praise, etc....but he'll outdo himself to maintain it... here's a kid who is so smart than he'll take any attention he can get...positive negative, doesn't matter...you mention his high kicks he'll kick so hard everything else suffers, or he'll kick low so you correct him...you say slow down he goes into worm mode...tell him stand still and he's a statue...anything you say he'll do because its attention...
his mom told me they were going to psych eval him for ADD..but she saw him sit still for 2 hours in promotions, so there must be something else wrong with him....i said he seems normal as compared to the hundreds of boys his age i have seen, he's really intelligent so he probably is sometimes underchallenged, but if his teachers don't demand behavior in class and back it up
they will never get it...but they might get you a ritalin prescription...well there's no ADD/ADHD by testing(I coulda saved her that bill)
...so now he's off for an asthma check up because he's been'short of breath'...funny he can run around plenty good in Karate - on extra class days we just play crazy and he can go for hours... i think he has friends with asthma so he knows how to fake it to get attention at home...I don't mind being the bad guy, but i know exactly what's "WRONG" with this kid ...mom & dad, but as a an extracurricular "educator" what's my place??
we promote our program as a positive character builder for kids but I think we need a parent's guide.
Anyone out there have anything like that? or ideas...i need the subliminal speech that wises up parents...of course if their kids were good, some might not be in karate, but a risk i'm willing to take.

[Mandeigh Wells]

Now, when a kid JUST WON"T LIStEN, what do I do? so I guess taking a Tazar (sp?) into class wouldn't be acceptable then...:up:

Mandeigh

[KenpoKev]

Naw, don't use a Tazer, they usually make 'em wet their pants, then you have a mess.

However, classical weapons demonstrations...now that has potential :D

[roninja]

when a parent enters a child into a dojo they should be in full trust of the sensei and all the he/she has entrusted with instruction. if the kids enjoy pushups, make them do more. or use a certain trick to find out their least favorite technique, or their worst technique and make them practice it, a lot. when I first entered the martial arts, around the age of seven, i had a korean teacher, master bach, who used a shinai to punish his students. I talked, and i got popped. my technique was improper and I got popped. I learned one important lesson. the dojo/kwoon/school is not a play ground. sensei, if he takes the liberty can be my friend, but he does not have to. if I don't respect him, then i am not his student. master bach is a few years deseaced (not really sure how to spell that), and i thank him very much for what he gave me. corperal punishment does not have to be the way, but order, discipline, and respect shold be understood. those not willing to comply should be punished or kicked out. child or adult. it is a school of martial arts, not a play ground.

[Jim]

Jeff/Sioux, it's been a fair while since you posted to this thread. How have things gone with the sibling you mentioned above?

Krystyn, how about the dicipline problem?

At the moment I only have a very small number in the 'Little Bushi' class but I'm getting ready for a population explosion as I've been 'discovered' by two local primary schools who've taken it on themselves to promote me (hey, free advertising!)

I've yet to have dicipline problems in my class, but then again I yell like in Full Metal Jacket most of the time and let the other students from the seniors class take the kids through their paces.

[fightgrrl]

Jim,
The most unbelievable thing with the little brother.
He is an excellent little soldier. He pays attention, tries hard and learns quickly to boot!
I think this is a prime example of how required 'discipline' can bring out the best in students. The parents are very lenient - he's a wild man...in Karate class he's outstanding - this kid just needs rules that are enforced...It looks like he's gonna be great!

YAY!

[Jim]

Glad to hear a happy ending, Sioux. :)

[Fire_Wings]

It doesn't happen much, but from what I've seen, making a kid sit out is a pretty good idea. When your playing training games, they really want back in, so most of the time they will sit like royalty.

That and the main coach in the school I attend (whom I assist) is always very friendly, and has the patience of a saint, so when I kid actually makes him raise his voice, (even a LITTLE) the whole class behaves very fast. :D

[Ewok85]

Dangle em by the feet, if that doesnt work make comments about how incredibly short they are :D

[Andrew Green]

Dangle em by the feet, if that doesnt work make comments about how incredibly short they are :D


I've dangled a few by their feet.... It is usually followed by requests of "Again! Again!" or "My turn My! turn!" So I'm not sure how that would be a punishment... :confused:

[Ewok85]

Lol, I've had to seek some help with unruly kids one one occasion, had 2 hanging from each leg, one had hopped onto my back and the rest were trying to crawl over the top! I never got taught defence against that!

Alternativly you could try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8107675670&rd=1

[Mandeigh Wells]

Alternativly you could try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...8107675670&rd=1 :laugh: :eek: :eek: :laugh:

I think I would have sold more than that.......I think the kids would have been up too!!

Mandeigh

[Andrew Green]

Lol, I've had to seek some help with unruly kids one one occasion, had 2 hanging from each leg, one had hopped onto my back and the rest were trying to crawl over the top! I never got taught defence against that!
[/url]

Been there to :D

[anika_89]

I get pulled in to help with the kids class occasionally. We have these really cool padded pool floaties, and they love to whack each other with them (they don't hurt when you get hit with them) so we say that if they behave, then they can have a competition using them. So if a kid misbehaves then they have to miss out.

[aplonis]

In the dojo where my son trains whoever disturbs the proper atmosphere for training first gets a quiet word from Sensei. Usually this is effective.

If not however, Sensei will suspend their rank temporarily such that they must actually surrender their belt. In this way even white belts can suffer a temporary demotion. For the rest of that class, or possibly even several classes, they must train beltless. And it is by no means guaranteed that the color of belt returned to them will be same as that surrendered.

It is not a form of humiliation. Whoever else might make fun of that kid is likely to join them in beltlessness. Once for two weeks the top-ranking brown belts were met with this fate. Wherefor? Their misbehavor was actually slight, but magnified by the higher expectations accorded to the ranks they held. They had failed in setting the correct example for lower ranks.

[nythius]

While I agree that the suspension and rank can be an effective manner in dealing with unruly children inthe dojo, I think the idea of not returning them teh same rank belt is ridiculous...the martial arts are supposed to teach them to set goals and work hard to achieve them, and the fact that all your hard work could all go down the drain really cheapens the entire system.

[tkdcanada]

But real life works that way. Anything you earn can go right down the drain if you don't make good decisions, etc.... Therefore, kids need to learn that you need to MAINTAIN what you work for, otherwise you can lose it.

[nythius]

Last time i checked belt systems were adopted to indicate levels of competency amonst students..not behavior. There are other ways.

[tkdcanada]

Yes, competency in all areas, physical ability and being a contributing member of society or at the very least their martial arts community. If you can't behave properly, then your competency in that area is lacking; as you climb the ladder of rank, you are expected to know how to act and be an example for the lower belts. Since kids sometimes lack common sense in this area and are at times impulsive, failing to think before they act/speak, or whatever, they need to be taught to be a competent member of their martial arts community which will obviously extend to how they act in other areas of life also. The best way I know of teaching this to kids is by showing them that there are consequences to their behaviour. To maintain their rank, they are expected to act in a responsible and conscientious manner. I think this can teach them that with rank comes responsibility and that you must always be able/ready to show your "competency" - not jus at a test.

[Cliff Hargrave]

When I ran a karate school a few years ago, I required each kid to get four stripes (tape) on their belt before they could test for the next rank. They got the stripes for attending a certain number of classes or by exceptional performance or whatever I felt like at the time. Completely up to me or my assistants. Whenever someone was acting up after being told not to, I would simply walk over to them and peel a stripe off. I was amazed at how well that worked.

[nythius]

Cliff, I think that's a great system because it doesn't cheapen the actual belt system. Since you reward them with those stripes for diligence it's logical that they could lose them through misbehaving.

[twrekx]

From my experience I have done the before mentioned " push ups" and have found that some kids love to do them. So I have resorted to more drastic measures.

I have made kids stand in the corner or sit and watch the rest of the group, works sometimes. But if this fails I will make the student do repeative drills of their least favorite technique, I don't give them a number I just tell them to do it till I come back ( same for push ups ). Then I walk away and go back to teaching. I return to the student after about 5 minutes. After a few times the student either smartens up or leaves.

I usually don't have to resort to the above too often as I always remind my students that thier actions reflect not only on them but on thier parents, grandparents, siblings, ect. And no one wants to disapoint the whole family. :wink2:

[wildwills]

Let's not forget about children with legitimate ADHD or even hyperactvity )when I was growing up it was being hyper...now it's ADHD). A true sensei/sifu is a teacher in every rite as much as a public or private school teacher. So rather than just continually "punish" a child, look to the root of the disruptive behavior. Enagage the parents a/o parent to get a feeler for what's going on in the kid's life. Positive reinforcement, along with discipline is the true path to getting kids to adopt a true "Budo" way.

Of course that's just my opinion...take it for what's it worth.

[jjaje]

I have often found that saying the boys name (It's never a girl)
And say "look at me", point to your eyes to make eye contact.
I say "If you continue this disruptive behavior, you will either have to leave class or do some other punishment, do you understand?" and I make them repeat it back to me so I know they understood (or at least their short term memory is working)

This usually does the trick.

[Abbax8]

Let's not forget about children with legitimate ADHD or even hyperactvity )when I was growing up it was being hyper...now it's ADHD). A true sensei/sifu is a teacher in every rite as much as a public or private school teacher. So rather than just continually "punish" a child, look to the root of the disruptive behavior. Enagage the parents a/o parent to get a feeler for what's going on in the kid's life. Positive reinforcement, along with discipline is the true path to getting kids to adopt a true "Budo" way.

Of course that's just my opinion...take it for what's it worth.

I have had students who are ADHD diagnosed. I have found with many of them that the first thing to establish is whether they really want to learn what's being taught in class. Next tell them to focus on what you are telling them. Next, and this goes with all kids, talk little and have them do much. When I teach any technique, I keep the explanation very brief, put your foot here, your hand there. Once they have repeated the rudimentary movements, then I tell them, move your hip to here, turn your foot this way. I build the technique up. Since "perfect technique" (see other thread) is something that is probably never grasped, I don't try to teach it to beginners all at once. This approach has worked well for me. It keeps the kids, and adults, moving and working. And when they get their technique adjusted in a small way that makes a big difference, it sinks in as to what they need to do.

Peace

Dennis

[David Craik]

In the dojo where my son trains whoever disturbs the proper atmosphere for training first gets a quiet word from Sensei. Usually this is effective.

If not however, Sensei will suspend their rank temporarily such that they must actually surrender their belt.

This sounds reasonable. My teacher just used to bust our backsides with a piece of board he used as a doorstop.

[Gene Williams]

Pushups!! For everything minor. Ten minutes in shiko dachi for adolescent nonsense...seiza for the remainder of the class...once, when I thought everyone's kata looked particularly awful, I just dismissed the class and sent everyone home...after twenty minutes :mad:

[wildwills]

I have had students who are ADHD diagnosed. I have found with many of them that the first thing to establish is whether they really want to learn what's being taught in class. Next tell them to focus on what you are telling them. Next, and this goes with all kids, talk little and have them do much. When I teach any technique, I keep the explanation very brief, put your foot here, your hand there. Once they have repeated the rudimentary movements, then I tell them, move your hip to here, turn your foot this way. I build the technique up. Since "perfect technique" (see other thread) is something that is probably never grasped, I don't try to teach it to beginners all at once. This approach has worked well for me. It keeps the kids, and adults, moving and working. And when they get their technique adjusted in a small way that makes a big difference, it sinks in as to what they need to do.

Peace

Dennis


Dennis,

Glad to hear most senseis/sifus don't expect kids to be machines and have attention spans of more than 10 minutes. I have yet to meet any kid less than 10 years old with an attention span of more than 10 minutes. God, just didn't make then that way. When you think about it, it's quite unfair that they have all that energy to burn

[Shinzon]

I teach children between the ages of 4-7. When I knew I was going to have a problem child for the day, because I would watch them when they first arrived to see how they were acting for the day, I would pull the ones to the side and have a "Mat Chat" with them about how they were my special helpers and how I knew that I could trust them to help me out with the class; also with how I knew that they be on their best behavior and that is why I chose them to be the special helpers for the day. They would all get very excited about this, and it would actually calm them down. I never really had a problem with the children once I started doing this with them. Give it try, because the worse thing that can happen is nothing, meaning it won't work, but it is worth a try.

[Aikido_Girl918]

make them sit against the back wall of the dojo

[poetic misjustice]

i've recently found that if you keep the child occupied then you shouldn't have behavoural problems, there is the odd exception though. But mostly the kids just need to be stimulated, which is why if i ever have to turn my back on them to talk to my sensei then i have them practicing katas in their own time, 9 out of 10 will behave then. although i have been known to take extreme measures, once i forced a boy to train topless for the duration of the class and he was always at the front next to me.

[Right To Defend]

I hear duct tape and staple guns work very nicely! :D

Discipline should be done at home, not in class. Iwould have no problem asking the parents to remove the student from class.

[poetic misjustice]

i agree with right to defend alot of discaplin problems start at home, usually the parents defend themselves and say "but all he needs is attention" and crap like that or "oh no we couldn't punish him too much he'd become depressed" which shows that the parents are weak they should punish their child again and again until they become one big emotional callous. I'm sick of telling these kids off and then the next week acting the same exaclty again it's an endless cycle until they reach comprehensive school (our equivelent of high school for you americans reading this).

[DragonMind]

Nanny911 needs to visit a LOT of MA schools! :eek: :laugh:

[Eliz Seuferling]

Nanny911 needs to visit a LOT of MA schools! :eek: :laugh:

Ya think? :laugh:

They could probably film an entire season from MA's classes alone.

I only assist in the younger classes with forms - I teach teenagers full time. Funny how the same problem children grow up to be the obnoxiously mouthy teenagers. :rolleyes:

[poetic misjustice]

actually i have had to discaplin worse tahn mouthy teenagers, the wort amateur boxers coming into karate, they have to be the worst, they hardly ever shut up and usually think size = skill or in their minds it's called 'ardness, i've had to put a few on the floor to show them thinner people can fight too, the guy called me a wimp because i was smaller than him so i had to show him whats what, i don't take personal insults from beginners lightly.

[MarcoPolo]

I think i've posted a response similiar to this, but here goes:

I think most of the things addressed here (pushups, taking rank, time-out, tazar, etc.) are tools, most if not all of which will work when the APPLICATION is correct.

I work with kids at church, teach kids classes, and like them so much i've even collected a few of my own ;) (Three daughters) a book was recommended to me that literally changed the way I interact with kids. I always noticed you could "punish" some kids and they did better, while others fell apart at any discipline. I guess I never knew why. Now keep in mind I didn't write the book, or have any interest in it, but it should be required reading for ANYONE who teaches kids!!!

((and though the title was a bit "touchy feeley" to me at first, the book itself is
priceless!!)) It's called the Five Love Languages for Children (if you read it, make sure to thank me later!)) ;)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1881273652/102-0941567-1522539?v=glance

[poetic misjustice]

well i'll have to give that book a read one day thanks for the advice, well teaching the junior class had made me realise just how glad i am that my ex girlfriend wasn't pregnant :laugh: it's put me off ever having kids of my own, i'll leave continuing the family name to my brother i think, i'm ok with teaching other people's, thats only five hours a week. but all the time? no thanks.

[sifulawson]

I am an assistant instrucor at my dojang, and often I am given a group of riled up kids, hard to deal with kids, or avery small group which I am responsible for teaching something basic and new.

Now, when a kid JUST WON"T LIStEN, what do I do? I mean, I have a large group of kids who call me "sir" - I am a female, I prefer "Ma'am" or simply Krystyn. Well, leate;ly I've been doing pushups, and the kids seem to ENJOY THEM!? what the heck! How am I going to help discipline these darned kids?
find you a new exercise like fluter kicks or diamond push up that will build them but you have to make sure they dont enjoy them and relize that its a punishment.or just dont let them do something they enjoy doing

[Black Tiger]

Pinch them in the nose untill a nasty red blood blister forms at the tip. :up:

[jjaje]

Pinch them in the nose untill a nasty red blood blister forms at the tip. :up:

If that was meant as humour - it wasn't.

[loppy]

black tiger is mean.

[Black Tiger]

The world needs mean people, so the good people can call them mean.

[loppy]

are you happy about that beeing mean??

[poetic misjustice]

being mean a way to show other how stupid you are in my opinion, "oh look i'm mean because i can" i get it all the time in college "ooh look lets be w*****rs to that guy cos we can

[Eliz Seuferling]

I think we have moved far enough off topic.

[jjaje]

I think we have moved far enough off topic.

Agreed.

If no one has constructive input, then let's just leave the thread be.

[Enyu]

As a suggestion, my instructor doesn't really tolerate any kind of disrespectful behavior. I remember when a student was caught with chewing-gum in his mouth, he was forced to do 100 push ups before being kicked out of class.

[freedomfighter04]

Here is one that I've used this past summer during a youth program that I taught for 10 weeks. There was a teenager causing the problem one week while the youth minister was away one week and had his associate run it for a week. We had the student stand in horse riding stance and if they raised up the did 10 push ups and got back into the horse stance and continue till I said when. Needless to say the student didn't cause any problems at all and got stance trainning and muscel build up on top of it :D

[wingchundo.girl]

Teaching 4-5 year olds has been a real challenge. I use all the techniques of correcting and praising. Praising the children who behave, time outs, ect.
All effective with children this age. I too have found that some parents are the ones that need to change in order for the child's behavior to improve.

I get down at the child's level and have them look me in the eyes. Children seldom can do this. But I wait and have them look clearly into my eyes. It can take seveal tries, but when they do look and maintain eye contract, I tell them the behavior I need and ask if they can do it. If they say yes, I give them a high five. But they have to look me in the eye the whole conversation and say yes, because you can discern if they mean it or not. If they disengage at any point, Oh well, we have to try it again. Eye contact is very effective.
Clue #1: Parents get down to your child's level when you talk to them. Look them in the eye. Persevere until you have real two way communication.

With children this young the parents are usually sitting in our parent gallery. If the child doesn't settle down, I'll ask Mom or Dad out loud, "He went to bed late last night, didn't he?" The answer always comes back yes. Clue #2 for parents - Get them in bed at a decent time.

These are the same parents who try to "show" the other parents they care about discipline by calling out to their child to behave in the middle of the class. I give them the "look" or say "excuse me."
Clue #3 - When I'm talking or teaching, I'm the authority.

When all else fails with the child, I ask him/her to go sit with their parent. The kids never want to go. This usually improves their behavior immediately.

When I have had enough of the behavior, I send the child to sit next to the parent. For some reason this seems to embarassed the parent a little, and they have a little talk with their child right there, which serves to reinforce the type of behavior I want.
Clue #4 - Reinforce the type of behavior wanted. Shows that there is agreement among the adults regarding proper behavior. Maybe parents will do this at home.

A couple of times, I've had to pick the child off the ground and take them to their parent because they refused to go. Once a child grabbed the wall and wouldn't let go. (I did have to summon all my strength and discipline not to spank him right there) But I took him to his parent.
Clue #5 - I mean what I say, and no tantrum can keep me from getting what I want from the child. I am the authority.

Parents start using the techniques they see used in class. I also offer handouts regarding discipline, motivation, tantrums and other parenting skills.

I evaluate the child for a full month. Then I will let the parent know if the child can remain in the school, or return when the child is older. But after I've had them for a full month, the turnaround is great.

My problem is I feel the child needs our help and that they are starving for discipline or boundaries. It's hard to turn some of them away, but it is hard work. Ultimately, too many classroom disruptions, the amount of work the child is putting me through, and the parental attitude determines if the child will stay with our program.

[TCBA_Joe]

although i have been known to take extreme measures, once i forced a boy to train topless for the duration of the class and he was always at the front next to me.
Might want to be careful with that kind of punishment

[coralreefer]

I think there is a thin line when dealing with unruly children. I know some schools near my area use something of a carrot-stick approach. In an attempt to have children behave, they give out some kind of small reward to the students who act properly each class. Maybe if they wear their uniform, and dont cut up, they get some "star" for the day, and after gathering a certain number of stars, they get some patch on their uniform.

It seems to work for some children, but personally, I have a problem with rewarding children for behavior they should exercise to begin with. Some parents will give their child money, or toys, if they make good grades, do chores, or clean their room, but to me, those are things children and teenagers should do regardless of whether or not there is a prize for doing it. I think this teaches kids a bad lesson, that when they do the things they are supposed to do, they should expect some reward for it.

As far as punishment goes, I think all children have to be treated diffrently. If you make one student do pushups, he/she may hate it, while another may actually enjoy it, and be happy and smile at the other kids when he/she is told to do it.

For me, I will not reward good behavior other than a few words to acknowledge it, and using some physical punishment (push-ups, horse stance..etc) I think can only go so far. I prefer to exclude the kids from some group game or activity. Each week, on Saturday, I give the kids a light workout, and the second half of the class, I will take them to the park and play some game, (kickball, dodgeball) etc. If at any time during the previous week, a child became unruly to the point where the class had to be stopped so I could deal with the child, that child will not play the game. I will not tell them beforehand that they cannot play that day(or they wont bother coming to class) but rather, take them to the park, and then at the park tell them they cant play, so they will be forced to sit on the side and watch with me. During that time, I will talk to them about why they are sitting out while the other kids are playing.

One thing a brother of my master in America did, that seemed to work well with the teenagers(especailly boys). He had a few "pink" belts in the dojang, (white belts he had washed with bleach and something red" If a student couldnt cooperate, and was continually disruptive, he would take their belt and have them wear the pink belt in class for a few days, until a time when the student proved themselves worthy of their regular belt back. Then, when he felt they were ready to recieve their normal belt back, they would have to take a test in front of the class, of all their requirements up to their rank. In this way, they are continually reminded of the thing they did wrong, and everyone around knows that the particualar student was not behaving. The thing with physical exercise, is that..while they are struggling to do push-ups, or horse stance, they are sorry, but after it is finished and the pain is gone, the lesson is quickly forgotten by students who have a more serious behavior problem.

Several times, i have sent children to a time out area of our dojang, and given them a dull pencil and paper and had them write out the student rule with applies to their situation a certain number of times (maybe 50 or 100) which must be taken home and signed by a parent and brough back to me the next day. In that way, the parent knows (if i dont see them) that their child is having a problem, and if it continues, they will be more aware of the situation and wont be so surprised when i have a conference with them.

Todd