Jujigatame as counter to O-sotogari

[Jeff C.]

I am helping train a very good BJJ guy for a NAGA superfight coming up in June. I am helping him with his stand-up - his ground game is superb, and he TOTALLY dominates me on the ground.

We were working O-sotogari the other night. His training partner is a very good jujitsu man who has had a few professional NHB and kickboxing matches. Steve, the BJJ guy, showed us a neat counter to O-sotogari. He goes with the throw and very smoothly and quickly transitions into jujigatame, achieving the lock and tap-out while the nage is still on his feet.

His partner and I threw him repeatedly, and every single time he was able to slap the juji on us, no matter how we tried to modify the throw.

I just wanted to share this with y'all, as I was VERY impressed with this simple combination and Steve's ability to pull it off every time. I am working it into my routine with Steve's help.

Jeff Cook

[Abbax8]

In a right side throw, is he locking the right or left arm?

Peace

Dennis

[Gordon Nore]

Steve, the BJJ guy, showed us a neat counter to O-sotogari. He goes with the throw and very smoothly and quickly transitions into jujigatame, achieving the lock and tap-out while the nage is still on his feet.

Sounds cool, Jeff, but I'm not quite picturing it in my head. Any chance you could post a couple of pics sometime down the road? ...maybe after the big match, so as not to give away secrets to the competition?

Gord

[Jeff C.]

Dennis, he is locking out the arm that has the lapel grip.

Gord, I will do you one better and try to make a little video of it. Not sure when I will train with Steve again; I would rather video him doing it. If you don't hear from me on it in a week or two, please remind me, o.k.?

Jeff Cook

[Musubi Dojo]

Look forward to seeing the video Jeff!

I imagine the end result looks something like this?

http://www.budosportvanrijt.nl/hanau/hanau2000_05.jpg

Cheers
c

[Jeff C.]

Yes Chris, it does!

Jeff Cook

[Tony Dismukes]

I've seen the same thng as a "bait" technique. Tori fakes a sloppy osoto-gari without kuzushi, expecting that uke will counter by driving back with his own osoto-gari, then goes with the sweep and applies the armlock on the way down. I can demonstrate the technique okay, but I don't think I've ever pulled it off in sparring/randori. I'd love to work with someone who's really good at the move.

[Musubi Dojo]

I've seen the technique demonstrated but never been able to get my wide arse high enough in the air to pull it off. :D

Cheers
c

[Gordon Nore]

...Gord, I will do you one better and try to make a little video of it. Not sure when I will train with Steve again; I would rather video him doing it. If you don't hear from me on it in a week or two, please remind me, o.k.?...

Couldn't ask for more. Regards.

[tisme]

I am competing this sunday in judo dislocate my knee last saturday. i have 90% of my range back....(thanks 2 cryogenics) can anyone suggest any throws that would be okay for me to do?

[Tony Dismukes]

I am competing this sunday in judo dislocate my knee last saturday. i have 90% of my range back....(thanks 2 cryogenics) can anyone suggest any throws that would be okay for me to do?

I would strongly suggest that you wait for another tournament and give your knee time to heal 100%. Competing this soon will greatly increase your chances of re-injuring yourself and possibly doing permanent damage. Think of it this way - if competition is that important to you that you would even consider starting back up so soon, then why would you take the risk of doing damage which might end your competitive career?

[tisme]

to answer your question ... why would you take the risk of doing damage which might end your competitive career?...
because it feels well enough to work with (jogged today on it no pain or swelling)and because i am not doing this as a competitive career. I have worked very hard and am mentally ready. i have never entered a fight or compition 100 %. If you train hard you will get injuries thats a fact. I am just wondering if there are throws or a combination that i havent thought of that might be good to use. thats all. Competing is not a career choice for me i dont care if i win or lose ultimately its the experience that will make me a better martial artist.

[Musubi Dojo]

Competing is not a career choice for me i dont care if i win or lose ultimately its the experience that will make me a better martial artist.

Or a permanently injured ex-martial artist.

Tony knows what he's talking about. I'd skip this one if I were you.

Cheers
c

[rgoad]

If I understand what you are saying, we do a similar technique. The original uke for the o-sotgari raises the swept knee across the tori's abdomen and holds the lapel arm to his chest. Sit back across tori's feet and he goes over very softly, laying out into the juji gatami.

If tori is really quick and strong either gets the sweep or tries to roll forward out of the lock as it develops, just hold the tuck and go face down into the same lock.

Sound right?

[Tony Dismukes]

The original uke for the o-sotgari raises the swept knee across the tori's abdomen and holds the lapel arm to his chest.

Sounds right to me. The knee across abdomen is key to give room to apply the armlock and prevent the thrower from coming down chest to chest. When I've practiced the move, the lock has always hit while the thrower is still standing, but your description of what happens if he falls or rolls makes sense.

[Abbax8]

I am competing this sunday in judo dislocate my knee last saturday. i have 90% of my range back....(thanks 2 cryogenics) can anyone suggest any throws that would be okay for me to do?

Napi-nage :D

In all seriousness, rest and wait for the next tourny.

Peace

Dennis

[Cliff Hargrave]

I do a similar technique from the knees that falls back into an armbar.

[rgoad]

I do a similar technique from the knees that falls back into an armbar.From the knees do you go over the arm and land face down, or do you have a way to get uke over you to land on the back?

[comanighttrain]

yeah i could see how it would work....would it not be Ippon anyway?

[TonyU]

I do a similar technique from the knees that falls back into an armbar.
Since when? ;)

[Cliff Hargrave]

Since when? ;)

Ok, I guess I should have said "I used to do a similar technique when I was actually training BJJ six months ago."

*************

Richard,

Let me try to explain it. Both people on knees, i have their right sleeve in my left hand and their left lapel in my right hand. I push hard against their chest with my right hand while bringing my right knee up. If they don't resist I push hard enough to knock them over. If they do resist, most people will mimick you and push hard against you with their right hand. I then fall back like they won the strength contest. I fall at an angle to my right, my right shin (which was up) goes across their chest, my left leg goes in front of their face, all the time I am maintaining the grip on their right arm/sleeve. My right hand that was on their lapel will either go to the wrist to help the armlock or scoop under their left leg, depending on how they feel or are defending. I can usually nail people once with it, after that they kind of get wise to it. :)

[rgoad]

OK, so then you can basically push them away with your left leg/right knee and roll to your belly for the finishing lock?

Thanks, Cliff.

[Cliff Hargrave]

OK, so then you can basically push them away with your left leg/right knee and roll to your belly for the finishing lock?

Thanks, Cliff.

I dont roll to my belly unless they force me to. I can usually finish from my back or transition into something else like a triangle or sweep. I really don't like to roll over with an arm lock because I feel like I lose some control of them.

[kumite]

I am competing this sunday in judo dislocate my knee last saturday. i have 90% of my range back....(thanks 2 cryogenics) can anyone suggest any throws that would be okay for me to do?

I haven't tried cryogenics. How would you rate it vs other products? Effectiveness, price, smell, availability?

[JiuJitsuRabbit]

How would the throw be scored in a judo competition?

Meaning, when I go for this arm lock and land apparently on my shoulders are they going to call ippon :laugh:

[Tony Dismukes]

Meaning, when I go for this arm lock and land apparently on my shoulders are they going to call ippon

Very likely. This move wouldn't be my first choice in judo competition because of that risk.

On the other hand, if you're too late to stop the o-soto anyway, you might give it a try. If the ref only calls the throw a wazari, you might get the win.

[Jeff C.]

The intent is to turn into your opponent as you are being thrown, thus negating the ippon (hopefully). I too would not make it an "attack" move, but rather a counter to being thrown with o-soto. Baiting someone to throw you so you can put the armlock on them is a bad idea.

Jeff Cook

[JiuJitsuRabbit]

The intent is to turn into your opponent as you are being thrown, thus negating the ippon (hopefully). I too would not make it an "attack" move, but rather a counter to being thrown with o-soto. Baiting someone to throw you so you can put the armlock on them is a bad idea.

Jeff Cook

But the look on thier face is worth it :laugh:

[Fletch1]

Is that Steve Hall, the Brown Belt?

[Jeff C.]

Roger that, Fletch. Where have you been hiding?

Jeff Cook