View Full Version : Can you slip punches?
Cliff Hargrave
04-29-2006, 23:43
Like this?
http://gifdepot.com/albums/GIFsAthruL/alivsterreldodge.gif
R. Johnson
04-29-2006, 23:46
Dude! (ten character rule satisfied)
Jared Sutton
04-29-2006, 23:52
Who is that against Ali?
"Dude! (ten character rule satisfied)" is right! That's got to mess with your head.
Tony Dismukes
04-29-2006, 23:55
Don't I wish!
What fight was this clip from?
R. Johnson
04-30-2006, 00:16
The fact that he can read his opponant like that blows my mind.
DAMN!! That was so nice it looked choreographed, LOL!
JackBauer
04-30-2006, 04:08
Which kata do I practice to do that! :D
ezzthetic
04-30-2006, 05:51
That's Ernie Terrell he's fighting. He's the guy the WBA decided should be their world champion despite Ali already being the undisputed owner of the world championship. He was the first splinter heavyweight titlist. Terrell was a tall man who Ali nicknamed Octopus. Not a bad fighter at all, and he had a very good winning streak coming into this bout, beating good fighters like Cleveland Williams (avenging a previous loss), Zora Folley, Bob Foster, Eddie Machen, George Chuvalo and Doug Jones.
Terrell at that point is very set in a single rhythm and it is easy for a kinesthetic genius like Ali to play with that. Slipping is easy if you're taught right, though I didn't always think so. A lot of guys try showboating like this without moving directly from a position of total control and they just look stupid instead of masterful.
That's impressive. I honestly would have thought that kind of ability was movie-fu fantasy until I saw this thread.
That takes confidence in your ability to slip/duck/weave to keep your hands down like that. I suppose his ability to read body language was pretty good at that point.
Drunken_Monk
04-30-2006, 15:51
Thats crazy! I can only hope to do that one day! :)
Can you slip punches?
No, but I can block with my face real well.
Gene Williams
04-30-2006, 16:09
Ali was without question the best boxer ever, all things considered. He made boxing beautiful. His stuff was effortless. Funny, his smoothness and polish caused many to mistakenly think he lacked power. AsK Foreman, Frazier, Liston, and quite a few others. :D If we could engineer time, I'd like to see Ali fight Marciano and Tyson with all of them in their prime. God, boxing Heaven! :bow:
David Craik
04-30-2006, 16:24
Ali vs. Marciano would have been a serious clash of the titans. Dream match. Undefeated brutal power vs. an undisputed master of the ring. Same with Tyson, I'd sell stuff to be able to buy a ticket or even a PPV to see a match like these.
Where is "master of dicuise2", that said "boxing doesn't impress him"...
Looks pretty f'ing impressive to me...Ali never even raises his hands, masterful.
Great clip Cliff.
I'd put my money on Ali over Tyson. Tyson was mean, relentless, hit hard and could take a punch, but his techniques wasn't all that great. Thats why he started getting beat so much later in his career.
Gene Williams
04-30-2006, 17:00
I'd put my money on Ali over Tyson. Tyson was mean, relentless, hit hard and could take a punch, but his techniques wasn't all that great. Thats why he started getting beat so much later in his career.
I'd pick Ali over both, but Marciano would be tough.
ezzthetic
04-30-2006, 17:51
Great as he was, Ali wasn't even the best heavyweight. That honor belongs to Joe Louis or maybe Jack Johnson. Ali was no technician either... he was sui generis pugilistic genius. He won fights with his mind, by taking charge of the flow of the fight. A ring general like none other.
Mike Tyson was actually a very technical fighter in his day, but he was also very mechanical and that was his biggest flaw, like Andersen's Nightingale. Unless the machine is maintained, it breaks down.
Nice. I hope I see somebody of Ali's caliber in my lifetime.
If it were between Ali and Tyson, I would put my money on Ali. Ali used to get in the fighters mind to confuse and frustrate them, that would have been pretty easy with Tyson. I don't think Ali would have lasted long if Tyson would have unleashed on him in a corner but I can't imagine Ali getting caught in that position.
kenpo123
04-30-2006, 18:05
Alie wouldnt have a problem with tyson, and i think he prob had the same power as tyson..
I greatly enjoy watching footage of Ali; fortunately I can almost always find something on Direct TV in the evenings to get my Ali fix.
I have a technical question: if you have someone who is great at bobbing and weaving, do you then go downstairs to the body? It seems that is a much harder target to defend in that manner.
Jeff Cook
Gene Williams
04-30-2006, 18:59
It is harder than you would think to get to a good boxer's body effectively. He crouches, keeps his arms and elbows in front of him, and keeps you off balance with jabs, but yes.
ezzthetic
04-30-2006, 18:59
I greatly enjoy watching footage of Ali; fortunately I can almost always find something on Direct TV in the evenings to get my Ali fix.
I have a technical question: if you have someone who is great at bobbing and weaving, do you then go downstairs to the body? It seems that is a much harder target to defend in that manner.
I'm not sure how to read your question. The bobber'n'weaver would want by all means for the presumably taller opponent to reach down and expose himself to the big shots upstairs. Otherwise, a weave or bob will easily lead into a bodyshot, which you can use to open any kind of combination.
If you are fighting a bobber'n'weaver, you'll want feint and hit the guy at the point where he is farthest away from a neutral position with a punch thrown very straight and meant to hit, with minimal required body weight committed. Once you connect, you can open up and rip him with uppercuts and hooks. In between pump a closed jab into his face. Sidestep and/or pivot after unloading heavier punches.
Of course, there is no generic way to fight every blend of fighter employing bob'n'weave, this is merely one such suggestion.
Gene Williams
04-30-2006, 19:00
It is harder than you would think to get to a good boxer's body effectively. He crouches, keeps his arms and elbows in front of him, and keeps you off balance with jabs, but yes.
Dadi and I cross posted
The dream fights between Ali, Tyson and Marciano may happen - in cyberspace at least - one day.
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808405668
"Premise - Rocky VI: After a "computer fight" between aging ex-champ Rocky Balboa (Stallone) and current champ Mason Dixon leads to Rocky's victory, Rocky returns to the ring once more to take the champ on for real"
(Feb 2007 I heard is the release date)
I'd pick Ali over Tyson also.
There already was something like that decades ago with Marciano and Ali.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Superfight:_Marciano_vs._Ali
Gene Williams
04-30-2006, 21:04
There already was something like that decades ago with Marciano and Ali.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Superfight:_Marciano_vs._Ali
I thought I remembered something like that. Very interesting.
Dale Lackey
04-30-2006, 22:42
playing devils' advocate; Ali was great but he also took alot of shots to the head even considering the number of matches he did during his career which was also impressive. He would allow people to wear themselves out on him so to speak.
STORMCROW34
05-01-2006, 08:19
In my humble opinion. Ali could have a hard time with a prime Tyson. Tyson had very good footwork and body movement that is often overlooked...But at the end of the day, If Ali could weather an early Tyson onslaught and keep him at the end of his jab, Ali would frustrate Tyson and pick him apart in later rounds. BUT, if Ali gets caught with one or two of those Tyson hooks...anything can happen. Tyson had unnatural power and visciousness while in his prime.
Marciano had a level of tenacity we just don't see much anymore. The man NEVER quit...but I think Ali would stay on his bike and also keep Rocky at the end of his jab...but like Tyson, if Marciano gets inside, there could be serious trouble for Ali.
But it's pure speculation...I would give my right arm to see either of these fights!
Yang Wei Xin
05-01-2006, 10:57
Ali in his prime would have beat any man in existence now or ever before as long as it was with boxing rules.
Maybe thats a little exaggerated, but dude, watch that video again, Ali definitely had some of that "heavenly glory" working for him.
Gene Williams
05-01-2006, 11:39
We possibly will never see the like of Ali again. What history and circumstances produced him, who knows? Aside from his boxing skills, he was bright, witty, good looking, had a sense of humor and did not take himself too seriously. If he had come along today, the religion/army thing would not have been an issue, but if he had come along today, he wouldn't be Ali. We should just be grateful we were able to experience him and thank whatever socio/historical accidents produced him. :bow:
Yes, Ali once he got a bit older tended to rely on his ability to take a punch but when he was younger he mostly avoided that.
The one boxer whose looping left hook he couldn't pick up was Frazier. Norton also gave him fits for some reason.
As for Ali VS. Tyson - well that is hard to say because of the different eras, my opinion is Ali would have handled Tyson the same way he handled all big punchers like Liston and Foreman.
Still though who really knows. Cus D'Amato could have found a way to cut the ring off from Ali, on the other hand Ali was a great strategist himself and could have neutralized Tyson's power, he also had a great trainer/manager -Angelo Dundee.
STORMCROW34
05-02-2006, 14:41
Yes, Ali once he got a bit older tended to rely on his ability to take a punch but when he was younger he mostly avoided that.
The one boxer whose looping left hook he couldn't pick up was Frazier. Norton also gave him fits for some reason.
As for Ali VS. Tyson - well that is hard to say because of the different eras, my opinion is Ali would have handled Tyson the same way he handled all big punchers like Liston and Foreman.
Still though who really knows. Cus D'Amato could have found a way to cut the ring off from Ali, on the other hand Ali was a great strategist himself and could have neutralized Tyson's power, he also had a great trainer/manager -Angelo Dundee.
Both Tyson and Marciano had very good hooks...Tysons hooks were unparalled in timing and power. Which is why, (along with the previously mentioned variables) I think Ali would not have an easy day with either fighter. Was Ali great? Of course! But other fighters today are just as good, if not better at slipping punches. Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker immediately come to mind.
Both Tyson and Marciano had very good hooks...Tysons hooks were unparalled in timing and power. Which is why, (along with the previously mentioned variables) I think Ali would not have an easy day with either fighter. Was Ali great? Of course! But other fighters today are just as good, if not better at slipping punches. Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker immediately come to mind.
I am having this same argument with Dadi on another thread and seriously, I think the only way to know for sure would be to get both in their prime , strap on the gloves and go 15 rounds. This discussion can never really be settled.
Who would have guessed that Buster Douglas would have knocked out Tyson? The same way a journeyman boxer like Norton always gave Ali problems or Ali himself knocked out Foreman who looked like a force of nature.
Cliff Hargrave
05-02-2006, 16:31
playing devils' advocate; Ali was great but he also took alot of shots to the head even considering the number of matches he did during his career which was also impressive. He would allow people to wear themselves out on him so to speak.
Similar to the best home run hitters also leading in strike outs. While his hands down - head movement stuff worked, he was bound to take some hits along the way. It's just impossible to dodge every singe one.
Luebbers
05-09-2006, 19:57
I love watching old clips of Ali slipping punches. He was especially known for keeping his hands down and still not getting marked up too bad - he was pretty, remember. I think I saw a Nike commercial once where they edited in his daughter as his opponent, and I think it might have been the Terrell fight. It was her constantly throwing combinations and him constantly slipping - something about trying to catch up to a legacy. I don't know. Nike should stop making shoes and just do commercials full time.
Jeff Burger
06-17-2006, 06:40
Yeah thats sweet footage.
I have always beena big Ali fan.
I dont know about match ups from different times. Tyson in his prime was pretty good.
Going to the body.
Like said its not that easy.
When you punching to the head your punchng arm can still protect your head.
The plan of going to the body to bring his hands down so you can go to the head requires you bring your own hands down to his body.
Against a good slipper / bobber I like to rush / corner them, smother their speed.
Against a good body puncher. I like the uppercut (BANG get back up here and box with me).
If they are hitting the body they arent going backwards as Ali was in that video. They are most likely slipping or bobbing.
For this I like to leave the punch they went under out there to stop them from coming back up.
You can set up some good shots that way.
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