Scottish Knife - Sgian Dhu?

[Jon]

Hi,

The Scottish Sgian Dhu:

Does anyone know any information about this knife? I'm particularly interested in learning about the characteristics of the techniques of the Scottish fighting style that employed this knife (if there was, in fact, a style per se). I believe it was used by the Scottish guard, but I'm not positive; and it seems to be like a boot knife.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Jon Small

[Mandeigh Wells]

from the Gaelic (pronounced Gallic)
sgian (skee - an) = knife
dubh (doo) = black

a straight bladed knife carried in the sock while wearing the Kilt. Nowadays more ornate than practical with jewelled handles, but as I know no more than that I hope this fascinating article will shed some light ..............

THE SGIAN DUBH

Never has one piece of weaponry, brought so many inquiries to this author, than the Sgian Dubh. Maybe it is because it was small, but mighty; -- alledged but hidden; or something women would call "petite", but very, very deadly.

No kilted Scot would be caught without the Sgian Dubh, tucked in his hose. No scholar of Highland weaponry or dress, could ever forget the Sgian Dubh. Few researchers agree on "all" the facts about it, but there are some definite facts about it that can be agreed to. One is (that) it is spelled various ways and all forms seem to be accepted: Skene du, Skein dubh, skean dhu, sgian dhub and Skhian dubh. Phonetically, it is pronounced "scheeeian doo." My own particular preference is Skean dubh, simply because that is the way my father pronounced it and spelled it and he knew ten times more than, I do about Scottish weapons. However a favourite spelling is "Sgian Dubh" so I shall use it here.

The meaning however, is clear: "Sgian" means knife or dagger, "dubh" means black. I believer Skyelander has touched upon 'Dubh' being black in his poem, 'Dubh Water.' Also there is in Celtic Mythology there is the black natured God "Dubh". There is discussion about the meaning of black in this connotation. The word Dubh, (black)comes from the usual color of the handle of the little knife, but the great majority of pundits believe that it means secret, or hidden, as in 'hidden away'. Also, some give credence to the story that because it was secreted away, - it was a dark weapon, others use the term "dubh" or black as in 'blackmail'. I do not feel it has much connection with the dark word of blackmail, most highlanders were not using it to blackmail anyone. Also we must remember that Dubh was a Celtic God, a dark God, and thus the name could have been derived from that area. However, there is a theory about this use of the word: The theory suggests that the Sgian dubh evolved from the sgian achlais (ochles), the "armpit dagger" mentioned in connection with the Scots in the 17th and 18th century. This was a knife slightly larger than the sgian dubh and was carried in the upper sleeve of the jacket and drawn from the inside through the armhole, and sometimes even in the lining of the body of the jacket, under the left arm. If one were left handed of course, the whole process was reversed.

read the rest of the article by Nancy A. MacCorkill, F.S.A. Scot at this link the Sgian Dubh (http://www.geocities.com/~sconemac/feature.html)

Mandeigh

[Sanjuro]

"och aye the noo its a sgian dubh "

Mandeigh, just got images of Russ Abbot there;)

Is the sgian dubh thats being talked about here just another name for a dirk?

[Mandeigh Wells]

Russ Abbott :D complete with Tammy and red mop of hair...

yes the knife is also refered to as a dirk.......

Mandeigh

[Sanjuro]

Ah, right so. I'm on the same page as ye now.

From what I've read, the first dirks were made from the tips of broken swords(hence the varying lengths) and were fashioned into daggers. I've got a book on medieval arms somewhere, I'll dig it out & see if I can add anything useful.

[Mandeigh Wells]

From what I've read, the first dirks were made from the tips of broken swords(hence the varying lengths) and were fashioned into daggers oh...I didn't know that, sounds like a reasonable thing to do!
anything that sticks it up the English eh!!
;)

Mandeigh

[Jim]

Bloody Hell!!

And I was always watching out for Kilted Scots going for their boot dagger in a Blue. Now I gotta watch out for the armpit dagger too?

:)

This is starting to not be fun any more!

[Mandeigh Wells]

Now I gotta watch out for the armpit dagger too? ....yikes thats a new one on me too....I would imagine that anything that comes out of a big hairy jocks armpit would be pretty scary! :eek:

Mandeigh

[Dale Seago]

Originally posted by Sanjuro
Ah, right so. I'm on the same page as ye now.

From what I've read, the first dirks were made from the tips of broken swords(hence the varying lengths) and were fashioned into daggers. I've got a book on medieval arms somewhere, I'll dig it out & see if I can add anything useful.

Not exactly, though it's true that many dirks WERE made this way. For more info, see my article "The Weapons and Fighting Methods of the Highland Scots" (http://swordforum.com/articles/hes/highlandscots.php). The dirk is the last weapon covered. Up through the last Jacobite Rising of 1745, the typical blade length of a dirk was 12 to 16 inches.

I'll just quote my final paragraph concerning the dirk here:


The dirk occupies a unique niche in Highland culture and history. Many Highland Scots were too cash-poor to buy a sword, but virtually every male carried a dirk - and carried it everywhere! If in Japan the katana was the soul of the Samurai, in Scotland the dirk was the heart of the Highlander. In many warrior cultures oaths were sworn on one's sword. Among the Gael, however, binding oaths with the force of a geas (involving dire supernatural penalties for breaking such an oath) were sworn on one's dirk. The English, aware of this, used the custom against the Highlanders after Culloden: When Highland dress was prohibited in 1747 those Gael who could not read or sign an oath were required to swear a verbal oath, "in the Irish tongue and upon the holy iron of their dirks", not to possess any gun, sword, or pistol, or to use tartan: "... and if I do so may I be cursed in my undertakings, family and property, may I be killed in battle as a coward, and lie without burial in a strange land, far from the graves of my forefathers and kindred; may all this come across me if I break my oath."

[Sochin]

My friend Tony has an essay at

http://www.members.shaw.ca/tmanifold/skean.htm

you'll enjoy it. Look around, lotsa other good stuff too.

[Dale Seago]

The sgian dubh -- unlike the dirk -- was never intended to be a fighting knife, though it may have occasionally been pressed into such service. It was not even developed until after the Scots stopped carrying their fighting blades, the broadsword and dirk.

If you want a look at a proper fighting dirk such as a clansman would have carried anywhere from about 1700 up through the last Jacobite Rising in 1745, take a look at this one of mine prominently displayed on my website at http://www.bujinkansf.org -- the blade on this one is 13.25 inches long.

[Dale Seago]

Better still, I'll attach a pic. Unlike the sgian dubh, a dirk is NOT something you'd carry in your hose! :wink2:

[AllanJGAnderson]

The Sgian Dubh was definatly by no means a dirk and had a completly different purpose. When a highlander would enter the home of another indivdual, he was expected to check his weapons at the door, all but one, his Sgian dubh. Which he would wear not in his hose, but in his armpit. (people began to wear them in there hose later in history) The reason to keep it in there armpit region would be to conceal it, hence the name 'Black dagger or knife' the black not referanceing to the handle but to its clandestine nature. More times than not a traditional sgian dubh of a typical poor Scotsman would be made of deer antler, not exactly black. Not to say there were no black handled weapons because there certainly were but that is the origins of its name and usage. As for fighting techniches there arn't any. It was primarily a tool, but would be used the same way you'd use any knife.



respectfully,
Allan J.G. Anderson

[David Craik]

Glad I'm staying somewhat true to the original purpose then...mine mainly sees use as a letter opener, though it would make a dandy weapon in a pinch.

[breaksallaround]

For more info, see my article "The Weapons and Fighting Methods of the Highland Scots" (http://swordforum.com/articles/hes/highlandscots.php).

thanks, dale. your article is very informative. i'm thinking of buying a sgian dubh from cold steel to use as a neck knife. :up: unfortunately they stopped manufacturing them awhile ago so i'll have to buy one before they sell out!