Soggy meat no more!

[Rasputin]

I normally identify myself as a fiscal conservative. I am normally in favor of smaller government and fewer regulations.

But I am getting tired of the meat industry's cost-cutting "solution" (I love puns) to rising meat prices: they "enhance" meats with up to 20% saline by weight.

It makes the meat watery and dilutes the flavor, plus it adds more sodium than most people need in their diet, and worse than that, we are paying meat prices for salt water!

I don't think we can expect the industry to police itself out of this policy. Even if some companies wanted to discontinue the process, they would be placing themselves at a 20% disadvantage against their competitors, and I think it is unrealistic to expect that of them.

The only way I can see for it to stop is if the government steps in and tells the entire industry to stop. This would level the playing field and get rid of the disadvantage.


So, is it hypocritical for a conservative to ask this of his government? Select a number from 1 to 5, with 1 being not hypocritical and 5 being completely inappropriate.

[Webmaster]

I don't see a problem with this. It is a matter of consumer protection and the government has a long history of legitimately protecting the consumer for exploitation by industry.

[jjaje]

Dave,

I'm like you in the sense of wishing for fiscal conservatism and smaller governement with fewer regulations. I used to believe having parties control the house, senate and Presidency allowed for the most debate and fewest regulations - but I'm not so sure that is true.

Regarding the meat issue, actually the butcher I go to get my meat has been saying the exact same thing as you. While I'm all for free enterprise, it works best with complete disclosure and having full information. When companies significantly change a product that has remained relatively unchanged for years, I'm all for them being forced to provide that information on the product in the same size lettering as the product name. (Now with 20% Saline solution :eek: ) - I'd rather exhaust other options before resorting to more govt regulations. However, it may already be too late for that.

[Eliz]

.... I'd rather exhaust other options before resorting to more govt regulations. However, it may already be too late for that.

Agreed. I also feel like consumers should take more of an active roll. If a consumer is dissatisfied, discontinue buying the product. There is an old saying, I am only one, but I AM one." If enough people took that responsibility, it would force change.

We actually gave up on the commercial market years ago. People around here actually purchase the animal and have it sent to our local butcher. He divides the portions however you request for packaging. Not cheap, but we definitely get our monies worth.

[Darrell]

I'm a vegetarian, so meat doesn't normally concern me.

However, I think there has to be some room for the government to regulate industries - even at the level of production, we've seen what can happen if regulations are not in place to protect the health of consumers. The use of ruminents in feed, for instance, is how mad cow started.

The saline 'solution' is a somewhat smaller matter than mad cow, of course, but it is still a health risk for the consumer. In a perfect world the consumer would oppose this and the hand of the market would guide the meat packers to do a better job. However, in the really real world, this rarely happens.

Practically speaking, it's also a lot easier for a government to step in and regulate than it is to organize a massive comsumer a revolt against a practice most consumers aren't even aware of.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Being a conservative doesn't mean being against all government regulation (that would be libertarian) just unneccessary regulation.

Adding salt water to meat sounds like theft to me.

[Dennis Monk]

I'm a vegetarian, so meat doesn't normally concern me.
Blasphemer !!!!!

[Ramirez]

This is an interesting question, while regulation is necessary for the consumer/public protection, the regulations also provide a road map on how to get around any rules so that you can obey the letter of the law but not the spirit.

I wouldn't say being a fiscal conservative precludes wanting regulation, in the long term it may end up saving the taxpayer millions in things like health care costs, financial bail outs etc.

[TEA]

I don't see a problem with this. It is a matter of consumer protection and the government has a long history of legitimately protecting the consumer for exploitation by industry.

Well, not that long. Only really since Teddy Roosevelt, and the bulk of the Republican Party opposed him on this and some accused him of being a Socialist.

[AllanJGAnderson]

Well, not that long. Only really since Teddy Roosevelt, and the bulk of the Republican Party opposed him on this and some accused him of being a Socialist.
Here here! Rasputin, you are a big fat hypocrit. Sort of. If the conservatives don't want the government in business, then they should be in NO buisness. But Mr.Carver makes an excellent point.

[Darrell]

There has to be some difference between a conservative and and a libertarian. I know that line gets a little blurred sometimes, but still.

[Erik]

The meat industry does a lot of nasty things to our meat. Animals can be sold with concrete in their stomachs (extra weight), steroids and growth hormones.

Some breeds of cow are totally illegal in the EU for health reasons (like the Belgan Blue which is not from Belgium.)

Try living for a year on natural meat. Very hard to do in the US but much easier in Europe. The difference you will feel will be amazing.

[BD2021]

It seems to me your asking if its hypocritical of you to go somewhat against a generalization of views that you claim to hold. I see it like this, you can consider yourself conservative, liberal, whatever it doesnt really make a difference becuase its all on a general scale. In this case you don't like the government involved in business? Well I think you recognize that there is a need for SOME government control in businesses but overall you want to see less, but when you get down into it each case is different and so your views have to change based on this. Its the same with views on anything, my views on certain subjects in general are one way, but when you get into the specifics they have to be bent or changed alltogether(I don't want to get into specifics). Then again maybe im just a huge hypocrite...

[David Craik]

I think the meat should be labelled if it has been injected with saline. This is no different than has been the case with bourbon for years. There are very strict guidelines for being able to label a whiskey "bourbon", or even to label it "whiskey"....by law, if it's below 80 proof the label has to inform the purchaser that it has been diluted, just like mixed nuts can only contain a certain percentage of peanuts. Lemonades and fruit punches have to say "contains 10% juice" or "contains no fruit juice" if that's the case.

Nothing revolutionary here, nor do I see that political affiliation has anything whatever to do with truth in labelling.

[Rasputin]

It's labeled. Pretty clearly. The problem is, I go to the supermarket and all the meat there has been brined. The cured meats such as ham and the chicken parts have up to 20% by weight added; the beef less but still some.

I am saying that it is not enough for them to label the meat as having the saline added. The cost savings for the companies is so great that most of them simply cannot compete unless they do it as well. Sure, I have the choice of heading over to Whole Foods and spending $25 or more a pound for my meat, but for most of us with families to feed that simply isn't an option. We flush the saline down the sink and lament the money we spent upon it.

Up until the 70's, most beef was dry-aged. It tasted heavenly. The meat industry developed wet-aging, and it was such a cost savings for them (in both time and lack of discards) that almost every meat packer adopted it, and now we are stuck with insipid, watery steaks for more money (adjusted for inflation) than we paid before.

I guess what I am saying is it's not enough to label it as poo. I'd like them to remove the poo. Most consumers today don't remember a day when there wasn't any poo in their meat, so their sense of outrage is dimmed.

[Maro]

It's pretty shocking to hear about this in the USA. In the UK our steaks are very small and we are used to being mocked by Aussies and Americans about the size and quality of the steak.

We always thought you guys lived off Prime, prime rib.

Myself - I buy Wagyu and 300 day grainfed Angus from my local butcher :D

I support my local as I know he sources his meat responsibly.

[David Craik]

Ahh, sorry David...I misunderstood. I just checked all the meat in my freezer. One bag of chicken had "flavor and tenderness enhanced with up to 10% chicken broth", but apart from that nothing. Guess I'll be paying closer attention to the labels, though that chicken is in fact pretty darn good...:D


and spending $25 or more a pound for my meat

Holy crap!! It better be unicorn meat that can drive me back and forth to work and double as a scientific calculator at that price...

[Rasputin]

I need to take my digicam next time I head off to Whole Foods. They dry age their own meat, and from what I hear it is fabulous, but:

1. It requires maintenance of humidity-controlled cold storage for all of your inventory.
2. You are forced to trim away up to 20% of the outer surface of the meat after aging.
3. You lose a substantial portion of the weight of the meat as water evaporates from it, concentrating the flavor.

All of these used to be done routinely, and were accepted as overhead in the meat business. Not any more. Nowadays, the meat is wrapped in cellophane and quick-aged anaerobically, in addition to the saline adulteration. The meat becomes marginally more tender than it was pre-aging, but the rich, buttery flavor of days gone by is not present.

Makes me want to convert my dorm-fridge to a meat aging box. It's on my list.

[David Craik]

So in reality you can be spending $30 a pound at this Whole Foods place. Screw that, time to go hunting!

[David Anderson]

But I am getting tired of the meat industry's cost-cutting "solution" (I love puns) to rising meat prices: they "enhance" meats with up to 20% saline by weight.

The only way I can see for it to stop is if the government steps in and tells the entire industry to stop. This would level the playing field and get rid of the disadvantage.



Rasputin -- Are you saying there is _no_ regulation of the meat/food industry where you live? That would surprise me very much. I think if you check into it you will find that your local government regulations _permit_ this kind of alteration/adulteration to your food.

Personally, I _am_ a libertarian, and I would make a point of going and bitching to local food sellers about the problem, and contacting local consumer groups to do the same. Government regulators are generally far more on the side of established industries [and their lobby dollars] than they are on the side of disorganized consumers.

Finally...I don't think it's hypocritical of a small-government conservative to want governments to take action regarding their pet issues...that's what conservatives have always done...:rolleyes:

[Ramirez]

Finally...I don't think it's hypocritical of a small-government conservative to want governments to take action regarding their pet issues...that's what conservatives have always done...:rolleyes:

:laugh: , good one and only too true, but that hypocrisy is on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Rasputin]

Rasputin -- Are you saying there is _no_ regulation of the meat/food industry where you live?

There is regulation of the industry, but pretty much for safety only. The saline "enhancement" does not make the meat unsafe, merely unpalatable and wasting our money on salt water.

[David Anderson]

There is regulation of the industry, but pretty much for safety only. The saline "enhancement" does not make the meat unsafe, merely unpalatable and wasting our money on salt water.

There was a similar situation here a few years ago when a lot of chicken was being sold soaked or injected with water to make it 'moist'. Loads of people really disliked the situation, said so, and almost overnight there started to be ads running for brands that didn't inject their chicken. The were pretty funny too...you had scenes of dinner parties where the guests would be wringing out their chicken and embarrassing their hosts...

Keep in mind however...some people may like to buy chicken that stays moist no matter how much they overcook it to ensure there's no salmonella in it. The whole issue may not be purely about ripping off the public.

Bottom line...complain to storekeepers about their product, and patronize ones that provide a better product. Both practically AND ethically, it's liable to work out much better.

[David Anderson]

:laugh: , good one and only too true, but that hypocrisy is on both sides of the political spectrum.

Oh hey, there's no doubt of that...For every Conservative that's willing to perpetrate a little anti-market pressure 'for the public good', there's a Liberal whose 'public-spirited measure' seems to inevitably fill his pockets, or some such effect.

P.J. O'Roarke has a line I've always liked... 'Government is like luck...everybody needs a little sometimes, but only a fool trusts or depends on either one'.

An even better line [I forget where I read it]: 'I don't want to destroy government...I just want to keep it small enough that I can drag it to the bathtub and drown it when it becomes necessary...".

However it's a pretty unusual thing to find anyone willing to forego government action in their favour, despite their stated principles...

[Chunkstyle]

[QUOTE=Cliff Hargrave]Being a conservative doesn't mean being against all government regulation (that would be libertarian) just unneccessary regulation.
QUOTE]


Thats me! I don't think the government should regulate anything. Thats not it's job in my opinion. I lost my taste for store bought meat a long time ago. I do a lot of fishing and hunting when in season, that takes care of most of it. That and I have an uncle and 5 cousins who all own their own farms in Wisconsin. They don't give me a discount but at least I know what I am buying. People just have to take the initiative to actually look at what they're buying. I do agree that adding salt water to beef is like theft, but at the same time, when people know this and STILL buy it, then its just ignorance.