Muslim anger grows at Pope speech

[AllanJGAnderson]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5347876.stm


"Speaking in Germany, the Pope quoted a 14th Century Christian emperor who said the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things. "

Anyone else read this?

[Erik]

I heard it on the radio, saw photos of angry middle-easterners, and about 30 seconds ago heard on the radio the pope expressing sadness that his remarks were (somehow?!?) misunderstood and that he and the Catholic church "esteem" Islam.

Go figure.

[AllanJGAnderson]

I don't know how esle one could interprut that statement. But 'kill the indifeld' can be misconstrewed in the same way I guess.

[AllanJGAnderson]

I don't know how esle one could interprut that statement. But 'kill the indifeld' can be misconstrewed in the same way I guess.

[Dennis Monk]

wow thats like deja vu
wow thats like deja vu

[SteyrAUG]

How dare the Pope suggest murder and terrorism is wrong.

Who does he think he is?

[David Anderson]

Personally, I believe we may be getting to the point where nobody can say anything on the subject that won't make somebody, somewhere, mad as heck. Passion [aka fanaticism] has overtaken reason.

[Abbax8]

The pope's quotation was from the 14th. century. He followed this quote with a statement that said murder and terrorism has no place among believers of God. Some current Islamic leaders are now comparing Pope Benedict to Hitler and Mussolini. If that isn't hyperbole than it does not exist. Calling the Pope another Hitler certainly compares to a cartoon about Muhammed. Excuse me- I need to go organize a riot now. :rolleyes:

Peace

Dennis

[AllanJGAnderson]

The pope's quotation was from the 14th. century. He followed this quote with a statement that said murder and terrorism has no place among believers of God. Some current Islamic leaders are now comparing Pope Benedict to Hitler and Mussolini. If that isn't hyperbole than it does not exist. Calling the Pope another Hitler certainly compares to a cartoon about Muhammed. Excuse me- I need to go organize a riot now. :rolleyes:

Peace

Dennis

That was a hella good quote :D

[tcomea2]

I heard it on the radio, saw photos of angry middle-easterners, and about 30 seconds ago heard on the radio the pope expressing sadness that his remarks were (somehow?!?) misunderstood and that he and the Catholic church "esteem" Islam.

Go figure.


Im so sick of people saying somethig and then getting heat from it and then backing out of it. Grow some balls and if you take a stand stick to it. as momma always said you cant take you words back. He knew what he was saying.

[Cliff Hargrave]

The irony......

The Pope quotes someone who says Islam is violent.

Muslims get pissed, riot, attack people, make threats, and burn down churches in an attempt to prove they are not violent.

[dao]

Allen has quoted the Pope stateing that


"the Prophet Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things. "

I think he is evil, anti-Islamic and we "get" him. :laugh:

Nothing like things being taken out of context. Maybe the Queen of England has the right idea. Say nothing and wave.

[aplonis]

How dare the Pope suggest murder and terrorism is wrong.

Who does he think he is?


Ahem... The Inquisition?

Since we're being cutesy and flip, I seem to remember something about burning Protestants at the stake. Most noted among these was John Huss, and that while travelling under a warrant of protection signed by the Pope himself. Silly him for not reading the fine print, since the warrant included travelling toward Rome at the Pope's invitation but not including the return journey home.

And there was that other Pope who danced a virtual jig at receving news of the slaughter of Protestants in Paris by Catherine Di Medici.

Of course those events were all quite a while ago. Even so, I don't seem to recall him, or any of his predecessors, admitting that those undertakings were downright Evil. In a few cases they euphimized a sort-of, kind-of retraction by such measures as: pardoning Galileo (but not Copernicus).

It's all God's work. Right?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI

[Webmaster]

Ahem... The Inquisition?

Since we're being cutesy and flip, I seem to remember something about burning Protestants at the stake. Most noted among these was John Huss, and that while travelling under a warrant of protection signed by the Pope himself. Silly him for not reading the fine print, since the warrant included travelling toward Rome at the Pope's invitation but not including the return journey home.

And there was that other Pope who danced a virtual jig at receving news of the slaughter of Protestants in Paris by Catherine Di Medici.

Of course those events were all quite a while ago. Even so, I don't seem to recall him, or any of his predecessors, admitting that those undertakings were downright Evil. In a few cases they euphimized a sort-of, kind-of retraction by such measures as: pardoning Galileo (but not Copernicus).

It's all God's work. Right?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI
Gan, that is the stupidest crap I have read in a long time. To take what is practically ancient history and use it place the blame on them in this situation is asinine. What is in the past, is in the past, and the modern Catholic Church is not what it was in the past. On the other hand, the Muslim’s haven’t changed and we are continuously seeing their true stripes by their consistent overreaction to that which offends them (like the Pope’s quotation of an Byzantine Emperor). When I see Christians burning down their city and rioting whenever they are "insulted" then I might buy your take on things. However, as often that Christian's are insulted, we should be seeing constant riots if they were following the Muslim model.

However, it’s really Bush’s fault, so I guess it really doesn’t matter. :rolleyes:

[Webmaster]

The irony......

The Pope quotes someone who says Islam is violent.

Muslims get pissed, riot, attack people, make threats, and burn down churches in an attempt to prove they are not violent.
Yeah, I have noticed that too. Sure makes their case for them doesn't it?

[Erik]

Can we just differentiate between the good muslims (who exist in abundance) and the bad ones (who also certainly exist) here?

That's all I ask.

Every day, my wife, in-laws, and several colleagues, all of whom are muslims and all of whom live their lives in a way that would make our Methodist pastors beam with pride, express disgust at the fundamentalist Islamists (that's what they call them) and even wonder themselves why theirs seems to be the only religion, at this point in history, that exports violence.

They even fled their countries because of the terrorists.

But let's put out some effort to distinguish between the good, the bad, and those stuck in the middle.

That's all I ask.

[aplonis]

Gan, that is the stupidest crap I have read in a long time. To take what is practically ancient history and use it place the blame on them in this situation is asinine. [...] However, it’s really Bush’s fault, so I guess it really doesn’t matter. :rolleyes:

So you are saying that when I quote ancient history it is assinine, but when the Pope does it it is otherwise. The muslims would not be so stirred up were it not for their having been repeatedly invaded in ancient history by armies sent by the Pope. And again recently by an unwanted european minority chased out of their homelands of a thousand years by whom? And then that invasion is backed up and continually supported for fifty years by whom? By the West, by Europe and the USA.

You know very well that if a superior force from anywhere came to these shores, staked out a huge hunk of land, chased our people out of it, and vowed to stay there forever by some god-given right according to a foreign religion we would not stand for it. We would fight them any way that we could. We'd drop the H-bomb on them and not think twice. You know that we would. We have done as much for much lesser offenses than this.

Yet you are surprised when others take it amiss simply because as much and more has been done to them. Why even their worst and most ruthless home-grown oppressors were foisted upon them by the West, principally by the USA. Herein lies true assininety.

It is wrong what the muslims do now. But it is hubris supreme to think that we would do differently in their place. We asked for this trouble by our foreign policy of the past fifty years. And however wrong and over-the-top their response, it is foolish beyond all excuse to expect otherwise when our own history, however ancient, varies not in the least degree.

It is easy to sit atop one's high horse and pretend to be superior while holding the vast majority of wealth and weapons on one's own side. But other tyrants have done the same and ended up the worse for it.

It is not our business to be there. It never has been. Had we stayed out of this gargantuan mess the whole while then the matter would have solved itself one way or the other...and without ourselves being counted among the bad guys on every side of this issue. For there is no good side.

And the last several years of at least our part in it are indeed Bush's fault...unless it is true, as some claim, that Cheney is really the one in charge...which does not seem improbable as Bush himself gives every indication of being ignorant as a box of rocks whenever he choses to open his mouth.

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI

[Webmaster]

And the last several years of at least our part in it are indeed Bush's fault...unless it is true, as some claim, that Cheney is really the one in charge...which does not seem improbable as Bush himself gives every indication of being ignorant as a box of rocks whenever he choses to open his mouth.

Yep, I figured it was Bush's fault. He made the Pope quote some Byzantine Emperor and he made these mental cases go out in the street and riot. It's also Bush's fault that LSU lost to Auburn today. :rolleyes:

[Webmaster]

Can we just differentiate between the good muslims (who exist in abundance) and the bad ones (who also certainly exist) here?

Point taken Erik.

[aplonis]

Yep, I figured it was Bush's fault. He made the Pope quote some Byzantine Emperor and he made these mental cases go out in the street and riot. It's also Bush's fault that LSU lost to Auburn today. :rolleyes:

Did you fail to note the umteen million dollars given to aid the muslim's enemies? the hundreds of thousands of rounds of US-made explosive armament expended upon their homelands? the many thousands of US and European soldiers occupying their soil? the flagrant violations of the Geneva convention committed upon prisoners of war? Truly you are unobservant, then.

First the Pope's armies (several times), then Napoleon's armies, then British armies, now ours. Can't imagine why anyone living there might be slightly annoyed?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI USA

[Webmaster]

Did you fail to note the umteen million dollars given to aid the muslim's enemies? the hundreds of thousands of rounds of US-made explosive armament expended upon their homelands? the many thousands of US and European soldiers occupying their soil? the flagrant violations of the Geneva convention committed upon prisoners of war? Truly you are unobservant, then.

First the Pope's armies (several times), then Napoleon's armies, then British armies, now ours. Can't imagine why anyone living there might be slightly annoyed?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI USA
And who buy's most of the Saudi's oil? Who give's Egypt and other Arab countries (and the Palestinians) BILLIONS of dollars of US aid? I cannot imagine why we waste our tax dollars on these countries for the benefit of their society and still we are the bad guys? Oh, never mind, it's Bush's fault, he probably even had a remote control and flew those airplanes into the WTC himself. In fact, I bet if you dig deep enough, you will find that it was Bush and his operatives from the Skull and Bones Society that bombed the WTC during Clinton's watch, attacked the USS Cole, and blew up the embassies in Africa! :rolleyes:

[Cliff Hargrave]

The muslims would not be so stirred up were it not for their having been repeatedly invaded in ancient history by armies sent by the Pope.

You mean the muslims who took over everything from northern Africa to southern Europe, slaughtering, raping, enslaving, forcibly converting and stealing everything in their path. Then the "armies of the Pope" that tried to take it back but never could entirely defeat the muslims and retake the holy lands. Then the muslim empire remained until it finally fell after WW1. Amazing how you place the fault of the Crusades entirely on the Pope.

Typical, everything is the fault of the West, Bush, corporations, Jews, Republicans, and Christianity. If it wasn't for us then the middle east would just be a peaceful sandy paradise of Sharia law.

What you cannot see through your left wing eyes is that there exists a segment of Islam that wants to convert the entire world. AND this segment has always existed since the creation of Islam. It has just grown since the fall of the USSR. The cold war kept alot of that in check. It exists in every muslim country and community in varying sizes. Osama was just key in uniting the different groups into mutual cooperation. It doesn't matter the reason now, the Crusades, the creation of Israel, Iraq 1 & 2, the Shah, the support of the Saudi Royal family, Danish cartoon, the Pope speaking, or whatever. Hating your own government and people does not change that fact.

[Webmaster]

Hating your own government and people does not change that fact.
Sure it is, the facts don't matter to him and his ilk! It's Bush and the secret CIA mind-control program that made him hate his own country.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Did you fail to note the umteen million dollars given to aid the muslim's enemies? the hundreds of thousands of rounds of US-made explosive armament expended upon their homelands? the many thousands of US and European soldiers occupying their soil? the flagrant violations of the Geneva convention committed upon prisoners of war? Truly you are unobservant, then.

First the Pope's armies (several times), then Napoleon's armies, then British armies, now ours. Can't imagine why anyone living there might be slightly annoyed?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI USA

How about every single peace accord we have tried to negotiate between Israel and their enemies that are ALWAYS broken by the Arabs? Israel averaged 13 terrorists attacks a DAY during peacetime. How dare the Jews want to live in their own homeland that was taken from them and how dare they give more rights to the Arabs that live there than the surrounding countries do. How dare they take all the muslim land with our guns.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif

[Dennis Monk]

The muslims would not be so stirred up were it not for their having been repeatedly invaded in ancient history by armies sent by the Pope. And again recently by an unwanted european minority chased out of their homelands of a thousand years by whom?
To the non-Atheist, that statement sounds rather anti-Semitic.

[SteyrAUG]

Ahem... The Inquisition?

Since we're being cutesy and flip, I seem to remember something about burning Protestants at the stake. Most noted among these was John Huss, and that while travelling under a warrant of protection signed by the Pope himself. Silly him for not reading the fine print, since the warrant included travelling toward Rome at the Pope's invitation but not including the return journey home.

And there was that other Pope who danced a virtual jig at receving news of the slaughter of Protestants in Paris by Catherine Di Medici.

Of course those events were all quite a while ago. Even so, I don't seem to recall him, or any of his predecessors, admitting that those undertakings were downright Evil. In a few cases they euphimized a sort-of, kind-of retraction by such measures as: pardoning Galileo (but not Copernicus).

It's all God's work. Right?

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI

And what century was that?

This one? The one before it? The one before that?

When the current Pope and his followers start killing folks you let me know. Because THEN you will have a point.

And you are also wrong in your last statement. The previous Pope acknowledge many things the Church did HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO were wrong.

[SteyrAUG]

Can we just differentiate between the good muslims (who exist in abundance) and the bad ones (who also certainly exist) here?

That's all I ask.

Every day, my wife, in-laws, and several colleagues, all of whom are muslims and all of whom live their lives in a way that would make our Methodist pastors beam with pride, express disgust at the fundamentalist Islamists (that's what they call them) and even wonder themselves why theirs seems to be the only religion, at this point in history, that exports violence.

They even fled their countries because of the terrorists.

But let's put out some effort to distinguish between the good, the bad, and those stuck in the middle.

That's all I ask.


Erik, I thought it was a given.

However in case doubt exists, when I talk of Muslim Fundamentalists, Radicals, Terrorist or even apologists I don't mean you or anyone else that doesn't fit that description.

Sadly far too many Muslims DO fit that description so there is an assumption they are being lumped together.

And while we are at it, not ALL Christians in the Dark Ages were part of the Crusades and Inquisition. However I don't see ANYONE showing any tolerance whatsover for them.

Hell centuries later Apolonis is still whinning about it.

[Cliff Hargrave]

And while we are at it, not ALL Christians in the Dark Ages were part of the Crusades and Inquisition. However I don't see ANYONE showing any tolerance whatsover for them.

Hell centuries later Apolonis is still whinning about it.

Great point.

[SteyrAUG]

http://i10.tinypic.com/2pt7ayv.jpg

[Gordon Nore]

http://i10.tinypic.com/2pt7ayv.jpg

I honestly don't get the point of this post.

[Jonathan Randall]

There's definitely a double standard here - extreme Fundamentalist Muslims can say anything about Christianity or Judaism (or jews - including that the holocaust "didn't happen"), but fly into a rage and riot and burn the moment someone says something non-politically correct about their faith.

However; we do have an unfortunate number here in the U.S. (including a couple who've posted to this board) who paint ALL muslims with the same broad brush and neither make, nor care to, a distinction between peaceful members and the smaller minority of Fundie extremists. This is disturbing to me because I expect a higher standard from Americans.

[SteyrAUG]

I honestly don't get the point of this post.

Really? Some have already commented on the situation.

The Pope quoted someone who stated that Islam is violent. And these are the people who took exception to that statement.

[AllanJGAnderson]

There's definitely a double standard here - extreme Fundamentalist Muslims can say anything about Christianity or Judaism (or jews - including that the holocaust "didn't happen"), but fly into a rage and riot and burn the moment someone says something non-politically correct about their faith.


Very true, the majority seems to always be catering to the minority these days.

[AllanJGAnderson]

To the non-Atheist, that statement sounds rather anti-Semitic.
:Smacks forehead!: That's why he can't stand the US goverment. It's ran by the jews!

[Jeff C.]

I honestly don't get the point of this post.

The peace sign is a nice touch, Richard.:D

What you have is a picture of four people, two of which you can see their faces. For all we know, they are outside a stadium scalping some tickets to a Dolphins game. Or pissed-off because their food stamps don't buy as many cigarettes anymore.

Heck, that guy in the foreground could be an Hasidic Jew, with that beard.

I don't see ANY violence in that picture.

Jeff Cook

[Abbax8]

Here is a link to the pope's speech:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=46474


I tried to post it in full but it's too long.


Peace

Dennis

[dao]

:Smacks forehead!: That's why he can't stand the US goverment. It's ran by the jews!

I didn't realize that Bush is jewish. But, then again christainity is an outgrowth of judiasm and on the same note so is islam....

[tcomea2]

anyone read this one??

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23367232-details/The+Pope+must+die%2C+says+Muslim/article.do

here is my favorate part
Yesterday he said: "The Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate that and that must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the prophet.

"Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."

i love political correctness....

[jwinch2]

It's nice to see that the Pope is getting death threats simply by quoting someone who lived hundreds of years ago. Unreal.

[SteyrAUG]

Here's a nice "peaceful" quote...

“We shall break the cross and spill the wine ... God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome ... (May) God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen,”

[AllanJGAnderson]

Ahem... The Inquisition?

Since we're being cutesy and flip, I seem to remember something about burning Protestants at the stake.

You must be alot older than 50 to remember those days, as a protestant Christian, I officially 'let go' of what happened hundreds of years ago as long as the catholics promise never to do it again. Deal? OK lets move on the the current events portion of this forum.

[Abbax8]

If I had the time I would compile a list off all the current charitable works being done by Catholic religious and laity that benefit Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Animists and many other non-Christian religions. I would also post the many people martyred while doing such work in the last century. Unfortunately the list would be so long, it would take me days of steady work to do it justice. Also the efforts of all these people would be ignored by some because of a two sentence reference to something that was said 600 years ago in a speech over 23000 words long. If the protesters calling for the popes death were capable of rational thinking they would conclude that not Moslems but rabid atheistic modernist were the ones most slighted in the speech. But the point is, it was a speech at a University. Islam prides itself on its history of establishing and fostering education. So much for dialog. It is sad and a serious reflection on the state of affairs. If it is not stopped, the Radicals may end up being correct- Islam will be destroyed. If they attempt to wage all out war, they will lose and have only themselves to blame. Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of a self fullfilling prophesy. I pray I am wrong.

Peace

Dennis

[jwinch2]

Here is some more of the peaceful responses of Muslims... You can say, 'it is only a few' all you want. How many does it take?

[wildwills]

The pope's quotation was from the 14th. century. He followed this quote with a statement that said murder and terrorism has no place among believers of God. Some current Islamic leaders are now comparing Pope Benedict to Hitler and Mussolini. If that isn't hyperbole than it does not exist. Calling the Pope another Hitler certainly compares to a cartoon about Muhammed. Excuse me- I need to go organize a riot now. :rolleyes:

Peace

Dennis

I agree Dennis. No doubt they're trying to start something because Pope Benendict was in the Hitlerische Jugend (Hitler Youth) when he was younger. Which in and of itself doesn;t m ean a lot. It just means that he and his parents were "playing along" to the politics in Germany at the time.

[wildwills]

As a practicing Roman Catholic, that can also receive sacraments in the Byzantine Rite, and former theologian/seminarian...Geesh! This thread needs closed.

[Webmaster]

This thread needs closed.
Good idea!