British MP opposes Muslim veils

[Tang-Soo-Architect]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5411954.stm
Theres has been alot obout this on the news today, and I was listening into BBC Radio 1 and they have had a very large response from listeners on this topic. The majority seem to be in agreement with Jack Straw that covering people's faces could make community relations more difficult.

[Shai Jan]

While I understand where Mr Straw is coming from and that the topic is debatable I think the muslim women have a right to wear their veils.

It has been a matter of some discussion in Australia as to whether muslim students should be allowed to wear their veils in public schools.

I believe asking them to take it off would be like me asking you to stop wearing cloths. It is a question of modesty to them. As time goes on and generations pass less muslim women will be likely to wear them and the problem will sort itself out.

Let them have their veils if they are uncomfortable without them.

[silentsamurai]

He has actually stated that he will respect the wishes of those who do not want to remove the veil.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13545804,00.html

[starkjudo]

Diverse and Divise aren't that far off phonetically, or in their ultimate impact.

If you want to keep a population segregated and distant from the general populace, allow diversity and don't integrate them into the nation's mainstream society. This will allow their children to be secluded from popular thought and more easily indocrinated into any negative biases your particular culture creates and perpetuate them. Any negative impressions of the new country from 1st-generation immigrants will fester and continue to create divisiveness.

[Musubi Dojo]

Ever heard the expression "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins?"

I have a similar outlook on multicuturalism.

"Your right to be cuturally diverse ends where the laws and customs of my county begin"

Try telling an Iranian cop that you insist on your right to view pornography and drink Jack daniels. :laugh:

Cheers
c

[Luebbers]

I believe asking them to take it off would be like me asking you to stop wearing cloths. It is a question of modesty to them. As time goes on and generations pass less muslim women will be likely to wear them and the problem will sort itself out.



That's an interesting point. I never thought about it that way. Personal levels of comfort with various styles of clothing vary greatly among people and cultures.

As long as no laws are being interfered with, I don't see how this would be any different than demanding that women wear tank tops in public because it would help "relations."

[Luebbers]

Diverse and Divise aren't that far off phonetically, or in their ultimate impact.

If you want to keep a population segregated and distant from the general populace, allow diversity and don't integrate them into the nation's mainstream society. This will allow their children to be secluded from popular thought and more easily indocrinated into any negative biases your particular culture creates and perpetuate them. Any negative impressions of the new country from 1st-generation immigrants will fester and continue to create divisiveness.

While you make a valid point, that is certainly a very one-sided view to the subject of diversity. It has been shown that the most homogeneous communities have the lowest crime rates, however the constructive impact of differing foreign perspectives cannot be denied.

I guess it depends on which you would prefer. A society in which everyone is alike and most people get along, or a society in which there is more dissention, and consequently, more conflict.

[AllanJGAnderson]

I believe asking them to take it off would be like me asking you to stop wearing cloths. It is a question of modesty to them. As time goes on and generations pass less muslim women will be likely to wear them and the problem will sort itself out.

If I was in a nudist colony, and it would be THEIR colony and I would feel obligated to go naked. Otherwise it's not respecting the culture of the people of which I am a guest. That is rude.

[asdf]

I'm with the MP - lose the veils or go somewhere else where it's ok to do so.

I also don't support Sikh children carrying knives to school, paid vacations for religious holidays, and using taxpayer money to fund ethnic parades.

[Jeff C.]

Ever heard the expression "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins?"

I have a similar outlook on multicuturalism.

"Your right to be cuturally diverse ends where the laws and customs of my county begin"

Try telling an Iranian cop that you insist on your right to view pornography and drink Jack daniels. :laugh:

Cheers
c

HUGE difference. It is against the law in some Muslim fundamentalist countries to swill Jack and look at pictures of naked women.

It is NOT AGAINST THE LAW in the US for a Muslim woman to be veiled. Regarding the customs, it is customary in the US to respect others customs, as long as they don't break the law or cause disruption.

I have sworn my life to defend other's rights and freedoms. They are free to be veiled in our country. Intolerance of that is rude and disrespectful.

Jeff Cook

[Abbax8]

My take on this is it's time to start demanding reciprocity of cultural respect. If a Muslim woman can veil, why can't I wear a crucifix in a Muslim country. If they can build and worship at a mosque, why can't we have churches. The west continues to understand and grant religious freedoms to other faiths while muslim countries practice genocide. Western leaders must use such opportunities to pressure Muslim leaders to begin to meet us somewhere in the middle. This way, we can have dialogue, which beats the alternative.

Peace

Dennis

[Jeff C.]

I agree with that Dennis.

Jeff Cook

[Musubi Dojo]

HUGE difference. It is against the law in some Muslim fundamentalist countries to swill Jack and look at pictures of naked women.

It is NOT AGAINST THE LAW in the US for a Muslim woman to be veiled. Regarding the customs, it is customary in the US to respect others customs, as long as they don't break the law or cause disruption.

I have sworn my life to defend other's rights and freedoms. They are free to be veiled in our country. Intolerance of that is rude and disrespectful.

Jeff Cook


My mind was actually off the veil topic alltogether and thinking about the teenagers wearing daggers to school here in Canada. My mind is anything but linear.

Unless wearing a veil is against the law I don't see what the problem is. Asking some one to remove the veils isn't against the law either. Getting all upset about it just seems like an opportunity for the usual political slimebags to propel themselves into the spotlight for a while and the press to fill some column space.

If people have a negative reaction to women wearing veils it will either go away over time or come to a head. Then the women wearing veils will have to make a decision. How much is worth to wear a veil when/if it constantly generates hostility? Only the individual can decide.

The point I was trying to make in my fragmeted way is that if you go to a strange place don't expect everyone to bend over backwards to accomdate you. It's really nice if they do, but it's not always the norm.

Well said Dennis.

c

[Maro]

He doesn't "Oppose" it. Nowhere in the story does he state that. It's simply a request to remove the veil.

Jack Straw is quite conversant with Islam as Blackburn, his constituency, has a very large Islamic community. He was due to take Condoleeza Rice there on a visit to see how well they have integrated but it was cancelled.

[James O'Neill]

If they want to wear a veil then fine. And I remember when carrying a pocketknife to school wasn't so taboo. Long as they pose for their photo ID sans the veil & agree to remove it on the occaisons where identification is necessary, who bloody cares?

Now should they start cheering about the next terrorist attack, I'd have no sympathy if the people in their community stoned them to death. But I could care less what anyone wears and I think it is a good thing to be proud of one's culture - long as immigrants make an effort to learn the language & assimilate into society at large - heck, it might be the next big fashion trend. ...Makes more fashion sense to me then bell bottoms - heck there are some folks we'd probably rather see veiled anyway :laugh:

[Luebbers]

My take on this is it's time to start demanding reciprocity of cultural respect. If a Muslim woman can veil, why can't I wear a crucifix in a Muslim country. If they can build and worship at a mosque, why can't we have churches. The west continues to understand and grant religious freedoms to other faiths while muslim countries practice genocide. Western leaders must use such opportunities to pressure Muslim leaders to begin to meet us somewhere in the middle. This way, we can have dialogue, which beats the alternative.

Peace

Dennis

Agreed, although this would seem to have little impact on OUR side of the behavior. We can't clamp down on our end and then say, "See, how do you like it?" and hope for any kind of meaningful change. All we can do is be as open and tolerant as possible and say, "See how nicely we all get along despite the fact that we openly express our different beliefs."

[Patrick Hayes]

Long as they pose for their photo ID sans the veil & agree to remove it on the occaisons where identification is necessary, who bloody cares?
Unfortunately, this is where the problem lies. Muslim women were refusing to remove their veils for identification purposes when requested to do so by authorities. I don't think anyone really minds that some women choose to wear veils, but by refusing to take them off they were, in essence, breaking the law. They weren't being asked to do anything that wouldn't have been asked of anyone else in that situation, regardless of their ethnicity, gender, or religion and therefore had no right or reason to make a big deal out of it. As was said earlier, their right to practice their native culture ends when it interferes with other's rights or the law. Practitioners of santeria are prohibited from sacrificing chickens in this country because it was considered animal cruelty, and few people thought that was a bad thing. It's kind of a silly example, but i just wanted to make the point that the law is the law.

[Abbax8]

Agreed, although this would seem to have little impact on OUR side of the behavior. We can't clamp down on our end and then say, "See, how do you like it?" and hope for any kind of meaningful change. All we can do is be as open and tolerant as possible and say, "See how nicely we all get along despite the fact that we openly express our different beliefs."


Actually Michael I do disagree. Force the Muslim women to remove the viel for ID purposes when authorities demand it. When they protest loudly, tell them to shut up. Cause a huge stink in the international community over it and force the Muslim nations to get in the same room then tell them all to shutup and listen to OUR side of the story. Nothing will happen at first but if we keep being tolerant and understanding nothing will ever change.

Peace

Dennis