hand training

[a-aikdio]

the most common way is to keep tramatising them , but what are some other good ways to in your oppinion?

[Bugeisha]

The only way to condition your hands is under the guidance of a legitimate instructor.

[Jason Delaney]

in china there is a well known kung fu stylist/sifu known as pan quin fu. Mark Salzman writes about him in his true story "Iron and Silk" master pan earned the name iron fist because he carried a 4"x 4" plate of iron around that when he had down time or when he was pondering the lessons of the day, he would tap his fist repetedly against the plate. the level of hardness weas not to "traumatize" his fists but to progresivly increase the hardness of his caulouses on his knuckles therfor making his hands harder. also many shaolin munks would spend two to three hours a day filling a large pot with water and "slap" the water untill the pot was empty then they would refill it and start all over. also thrusting your hands into sand works well to.

[Jay Bell]

the most common way is to keep tramatising them , but what are some other good ways to in your oppinion?

This is nothing short of a rediculous statement.

[aplonis]

I recall reading of how numerous micro-fractures on the outermost (surface) part of bones will, in time, result in said bone being denser and heavier in those areas.

It makes sense in a fashion. I know that my twice-broken, left collarbone (from two separate motorcycle accidents) is palpably thicker in that area. But there is no way I would want to do that on purpose, and especially not to my hands.

While I do like to snap the occasional board with a ridge-hand, I'd much rather own to the claim that it was done with finesse than merely on account of the the hand itself having become an ordinary blunt instrument.

And besides, if I do ever need my hands to defend myself I don't want a jury looking at them, seeing over-calloused, meat-hammers and pronouncing me guilty at first glance. I'd much rather they look innocent of any mal-intent. (Wish I'd taken George Carlin's advice and thought about that before I got the tattoos back in 1975).

Gan Uesli Starling
Kalamazoo MI
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do (http://wmtkd.us)

[Dale Dugas]

There are methods to train the hands. Pan Qing Fu's method is not anything you want to undertake. His method is suspect.

I have been training my hands for over 15 years and I do not have any calluses or markings that affect function.

Beware of anyone that says to train with direct contact of your hands on anything. A good way to deform and maim yourself.

[Dilligf]

Beware of anyone that says to train with direct contact of your hands on anything. A good way to deform and maim yourself.

If you are not having direct contact with something to make your hands harder. How do you train them?

[TonyU]

If you are not having direct contact with something to make your hands harder. How do you train them?
By hitting things that give, then working your way up in resistance. Never hitting things that does not give.

[Dale Dugas]

If you are not having direct contact with something to make your hands harder. How do you train them?

I apologize for the apparent lack of clarification on my part.

Do Not Hit steel plates as Pan Qing Fu does. They do not give and you can seriously damage yourself.

Do not Hit Iron Shot that is open to the environment, that can rust. There is one prominent master who advocates having your Iron Palm material in an open container and having you hit it and then use your medicine which causes the dust from the iron shot to mix with the medicine and make the iron palm literally in your hand. Utter garbage.

This master thinks you cannot get Iron poisoning, but it happens all too often. Goes to show you that many of the self made celebrity masters have no clue.

Always start slowly and work up to hitting things full strength.

Real conditioning will not affect your joints and health.

Way too many masters of the past had a bad understanding of kinetics and kinesiology. many of them were lame when they got older as they did not know what certain postures could do to the body.

Always good to look at your material and update it according to modern methods.

[Ron Tisdale]

in china there is a well known kung fu stylist/sifu

Uh, isn't the gentleman in question living in Canada? I thought he had been there for quite some time (near Toronto?).

Best,
Ron

[Musubi Dojo]

Uh, isn't the gentleman in question living in Canada? I thought he had been there for quite some time (near Toronto?).

Best,
Ron

Pan is in Kitchener/Waterloo area I believe (an hour from Toronto)

I saw him at a Chinese New Year Celebration in TO, maybe 10 or 15 years ago and was really impressed. He does have one ugly fist though. :laugh:

Traditional Okinawan Karateka use a makiwara for conditioning the knuckles and training the entire structure of the punch/strike (the makiwara does move a little, springy). I've seen lots of caloused and otherwised deformed knuckles from this type of training though...

[TonyU]

Traditional Okinawan Karateka use a makiwara for conditioning the knuckles and training the entire structure of the punch/strike (the makiwara does move a little, springy). I've seen lots of caloused and otherwised deformed knuckles from this type of training though...
Not mine, though. :rolleyes:

[Bugeisha]

Not mine, though. :rolleyes:

Compared to Pan Qing Fu, everyone has pretty hands.

And good fashion sense.

[Musubi Dojo]

Not mine, though. :rolleyes:

So what do you do to ensure your knuckles stay pretty Tony? :D

Are calouses of any type undesirable?

I'm not claiming any great knowledge of conditioning, genuinely curious.

Was my description of the training inaccurate?

Cheers
c

[TonyU]

So what do you do to ensure your knuckles stay pretty Tony? :D

Are calouses of any type undesirable?

I'm not claiming any great knowledge of conditioning, genuinely curious.

Was my description of the training inaccurate?

Cheers
c
No, it's good. I was just being sarcastic and noone caught it.
Click on the below thread I posted. I forgot it's been over a year since I posted it..
My Ugly Weapons (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97801#post97801)

[Bugeisha]

I caught it, Tony ;) I was actually just about to post a link to that thread, but you did it in the time it took me to search and find it. :)

I still think your hands are pretty compared to Pan's.

[TonyU]

I still think your hands are pretty compared to Pan's.
Of course, without a doubt.
I never want it nor will ever let it get that bad.

[Musubi Dojo]

No, it's good. I was just being sarcastic and noone caught it.
Click on the below thread I posted. I forgot it's been over a year since I posted it..
My Ugly Weapons (http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97801#post97801)

Ohhhhhh.......

Nice knuckles. :D

[wildwills]

Way too many masters of the past had a bad understanding of kinetics and kinesiology. many of them were lame when they got older as they did not know what certain postures could do to the body.



Like Mas Oyama for example. I'd rather hit a heavy bag or light work on makiwara.

[Jay Bell]

A makiwara is for the hips...not the fists.. ;)

Tony, your knuckles look like mine :(

[wildwills]

A makiwara is for the hips...not the fists.. ;)


True, but you also get calluses as a side benefit.:D:

[Jay Bell]

True, but you also get calluses as a side benefit.:D:

haha, true!

I used to do...ehm...conditioning of unintelligent design, in my younger years. I won't get into the methods of atemi no tanren, because I wouldn't suggest anyone be so greedy in their abilities that they sacrifice their well being.

HOWEVER...I will say that we used to use organic fig juice rubbed into our hands to help.

[wildwills]

I won't get into the methods of atemi no tanren, because I wouldn't suggest anyone be so greedy in their abilities that they sacrifice their well being.



I absolutely agree. I had started makiwara training way too young and was too vigorous when doing it to the point that I have the onset of arthritis now at only 34.

My son (7) wants me to build one at our house after seeing one in a Ishhinryu dojo back in PA when we last visited family. I told him he'll have to wait unitl he's at least 16 or 17 and to hit the heavybag in the meantime.