Which Chinese MA would you recommend to others???

[RobNyc]

Which Chinese Martial Arts would you recommend to others???
And why?

[LanceWildcat1]

Which Chinese Martial Arts would you recommend to others???
And why?

I voted for External and Internal. I trained this way, and I believe that you need balance. I study both, and am pleased with the balance that I see in my abilities. :hippie:

[RobNyc]

That is correct, you are absolutely right.

But which are the External/Internal Styles?

Taiji and his families are Internal so then no external there.

Some KungFu are just external and claim to be Hard & Soft.

Some I have seen that maybe hard/soft is HungGar KungFu
Am I right?:D


Thanks Hey.

[LanceWildcat1]

RobNyc

But which are the External/Internal Styles?

In my case-Shaolin and Tai Chi. :)

[RobNyc]

Ok,
so TaiChi is external & internal?

that's what I meant. a style for example hunggar says is
Hard&Soft, External&Internal.
TaiChi is internal according to what I've read about it.

Shaolin is very External, well Shaolin Temple Boxing taught in the temple is, LoL.

[LanceWildcat1]

Taichi is internal, shaolin is external is what I meant.:)

Lance Hyatt

[Mandeigh Wells]

Taiji is classified under internal art but it is a combination of hard and soft.....yeilding, redirecting and then dispatching your opponant. For anyone who things it is all about be soft 100% of the time you would no longer have the interplay between yin and yang which is the basis of taiji....in fact the yin yang symbol is called tai chi...the union of opposites. Taiji combines body mechanics, aligmenets and structure to create...energies, such as splitting energy, roll back energy, ward off energy etc. The understanding of these energies is what makes taiji an internal art, it does not rely purley on muscular strength, but the strikes and punches are as hard and effective as any other 'hard styles'. The breathing work and ancillary practices such as qigong are designed to help build this energy and strengthen the body. I think that sometimes when people refer to taiji as an internal art they are aiming to make it sound mysterious or even superiour to other arts, but wether you believe in enery or not, its not about mysticism, running up trees etc, just a well devised system of training that is adaptable for a variety of people to practice and teaches good life skills.....like not meeting force with force...etc


mandeigh:cool:

[RobNyc]

Originally posted by LanceWildcat1
Taichi is internal, shaolin is external is what I meant.:)

Lance Hyatt

Yea I was gonna say that, because I know Shaolin is categorize as External, and Tai Chi as Internal ;-)
But I wanted to make sure .

[RobNyc]

Originally posted by Mandeigh
Taiji is classified under internal art but it is a combination of hard and soft.....yeilding, redirecting and then dispatching your opponant. For anyone who things it is all about be soft 100% of the time you would no longer have the interplay between yin and yang which is the basis of taiji....in fact the yin yang symbol is called tai chi...the union of opposites. Taiji combines body mechanics, aligmenets and structure to create...energies, such as splitting energy, roll back energy, ward off energy etc. The understanding of these energies is what makes taiji an internal art, it does not rely purley on muscular strength, but the strikes and punches are as hard and effective as any other 'hard styles'. The breathing work and ancillary practices such as qigong are designed to help build this energy and strengthen the body. I think that sometimes when people refer to taiji as an internal art they are aiming to make it sound mysterious or even superiour to other arts, but wether you believe in enery or not, its not about mysticism, running up trees etc, just a well devised system of training that is adaptable for a variety of people to practice and teaches good life skills.....like not meeting force with force...etc


mandeigh:cool:


Thanks.

[LanceWildcat1]

Mandeigh:

Taiji is classified under internal art but it is a combination of hard and soft.....yeilding, redirecting and then dispatching your opponant. For anyone who things it is all about be soft 100% of the time you would no longer have the interplay between yin and yang which is the basis of taiji....in fact the yin yang symbol is called tai chi...the union of opposites. Taiji combines body mechanics, aligmenets and structure to create...energies, such as splitting energy, roll back energy, ward off energy etc.

OK, now I understand what you are saying! I have never considered it to be a 'hard' art, only as a tool for calming the body and realigning my 'chi'. I am going to do some serious reading about the 'hard' side of Taiji, and try to understand the 'hard' applications. I was always taught that TaiChi was done slow, with rhythm and calm. I never explored the 'hard side', but I'm going to.:)

Lance Hyatt

[SeanStonehart]

Check out the Chen Taiji Lao Jia Er Lu Routine (also known as Cannon Fist) or the Xin Jia Routine (New Frame). Hell, check anything out by the Chen family. Chen Xiao Wang, Chen Zheng Lei & Ren Guan Yi all have videos out that show Chen Taiji quan. Any one of them will demonstrate "hard & soft" of Taijiquan. It's definately as Mandeigh described, yin & yang.

[RobNyc]

I'll need to do some reading too.

[Mandeigh Wells]

Lance wrote:

OK, now I understand what you are saying! I have never considered it to be a 'hard' art, only as a tool for calming the body and realigning my 'chi'. I am going to do some serious reading about the 'hard' side of Taiji, and try to understand the 'hard' applications. I was always taught that TaiChi was done slow, with rhythm and calm. I never explored the 'hard side', but I'm going to. you are not alone, taiji has been seriously hyjacked and with many 'teachers' springing up will little real understanding of the art it is in danger of becoming lost to the world despite one of the fastest growing practises. In Yang Shi Taijiquan (Yang Family Taijiquan) there are a set of 'rules' for practice called the 10 essences. Some of them are concerned with the body requirments of practice and some are more about the 'manner' in which you practice.
1. Raise the spirit: physically this is aligning the head and neck, but it also describes the upright posture through the whole body and where the eyes look and about having 360% vision.....
2. Sinking shoulders and elbows.....strength through the correct alinments, loose, no tension in arms.
3. Loosen chest and round the back.....more guidance on the way the body is held for maximum softness but still strong in its structure.
4. Loosen waist open Kua: te waist controls the movemnts in taiji, the kua refers to the inguinal folds of the groin, to be tight and tense in this area affects the ability to use the waist, feel the weight changes and be rooted physically to the ground.
5. Understand the weight changes in the legs. feeling the change of weight as each frame changes, knowing where your weight is and balanced at every precise moment in each movemnt.
6. Cooridnate upper and lower body. looking at the relationship between the arms and legs, the body moving as a single unit even though the arms and leg, upper and lower body may be moving at different speeds....they all finish the application at the same time if not the energy is disturbed.
7 Continutity . moving smothely from one posture or one energy to the next, can only happen when the first 5 essences exsist.
8 Unite internal intent and outside body......every move orginates in the mind and from the begining to the end the movemnt should have 'intent' or purpose. It is common to see taiji people practising with loose floopy hands, missenterpreting the word relaxed, where there is no intent there is no energy.
9. Use mind not force. this is at a more advanced level. It doesn't mean that you send people flying by using your mind, but it is again related to demenour and the way you carry and express yourself....quite closely related to focus.
10. seek still ness in motion and motion in still ness....the new agers love this one as they try to become 'one' with the universe. It is about seeking a balance and tranquility, practising in an undisturbd manner, in harmony with your surroundings, your opponant, no fear or adverse emotions, appearing very calm on the outside but being alert, aware, but not disturbed.......but we can't do any of this without high spirit.

Yang Chen Fu was responsble for much of the develoment of the slow aspect of taijiquan as we know it today. Practsing the movemnts slowley means that we can also practise them precisely with attention to the essenses, the harmonies, the alignments the structure.......Yang Cheng Fu was reknown as a martial arts master, but then he practised taiji in all the aspects, using his fighting skills as necessary. I think the main problem these days is that in the West there are not enough high level teachers who are martial artists. They have learned a basic sequence of steps call them selves a taiji teacher and then start a class. The sad part is that many of them believe they do know what they are teaching because they have had low level teachers themslef and haven't really seen what taiji is about. So one it goes with more taiji dance classes and less of the real deal.
Taiji applications are practised slowley to develope listing energy and sticking energy, but taiji applications are practised in real-time too...

happy reading folks!

Mandeigh:bow:

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by Mandeigh
Lance wrote:

...snipped for brevity...

I think the main problem these days is that in the West there are not enough high level teachers who are martial artists. They have learned a basic sequence of steps call them selves a taiji teacher and then start a class. The sad part is that many of them believe they do know what they are teaching because they have had low level teachers themslef and haven't really seen what taiji is about. So one it goes with more taiji dance classes and less of the real deal.
Taiji applications are practised slowley to develope listing energy and sticking energy, but taiji applications are practised in real-time too...

happy reading folks!

Mandeigh:bow:

ROCK AND ROLL MANDEIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My kinda girl!!!!

Good answer & well put. I define the taiji internal arts as: Tie cheeeeee for those who need to love the world & hug the universe & then there taiji for the martial artist. It's a bit more simplistic than your definition, but says the same thing! :D

[Mandeigh Wells]

some quotes from Fu Zhong Wens Mastering Yang Style Taijiquan to back up my previous points.....

"Taijiquan is the art of softness containing hardness of a needle concealed in cotton. Its techniques, physiology and mechanics are imbued with considerable philosophical priciples. THere fore, those who would study this method must go through definite stages and appropriate duration of time. Although the guidance of an excellent master and dilligent training with freinds must not be under emphasised, most important is individual daily practice. Otherwise one can discuss it till the end of time, or think longingly for an entire year, but once you are engaged in in a fight, there is a total absence of substance and you remain a novice without a days acomplishment........you can think all day with no out come, it is not as good as [practical]study."

On lack of motivation and perseverence....
"We are definately not lacking for students. However it is generally impossible to avaoid two routes: in the first instance are those already possesing talent, who are young and strong, can draw inferences easily, are clever beyond the average - what a pity that they rarely accomplish anything, yet are satisfied and will suddenly stop studying, unable to endure a great undertaking. In the second instance are those who impatiently seek quick results, yet who are careless in their development. Before a whole year has passed they have already studied the hand, sword, broadsword and spear forms. Although able to imitate in rote fashion, they in fact never master the secrets.........if this present generation by means of mistakes, transmits mistakes they will certainly extend their own mistakes to others...most distressing for the future of the martial arts"

On practice of the solo form...
" When initially learning Taijiquan, one must first study the form. Studying the form means to learn each of the postures named within the syllabus, each posture as taught by a master............Each posture must be carefully analyzed: ones deportment in practie must seek what is correct. When you've completed one form [individual posture] completely then work on the next. Gradually you will reach completion in your practice."
On method of practice........
"When practicing the movemnts all of the joints of the entire body must be relaxed, open and natural. First one must not inhibit the qi in the mouth or abdomen, second, do not allow force [tension]to gather up in the limbs, waist or legs. these two ideas are expressed by various practitioners of internal martial arts. However, once they commence a movement, with one turn of their body or kick of their legs or swing of the waist they gasp for air and their bodies become agitated....these flaws come from holding the breath and adding force to the movemnts"



ROCK AND ROLL MANDEIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My kinda girl!!!! ooh you say the nicest of things!

I define the taiji internal arts as: Tie cheeeeee for those who need to love the world & hug the universe & then there taiji for the martial artist. :laugh:

Mandeigh

[Jeff Burger]

What does the person wants from their training??? Self defense , sport competition , health / fitness , hobby


JMB

[sean_stonehart]

Jeff... I can't speak for other schools & I don't speak for my Sifu, but at our school, we tell people we teach Yang & Chen taiji as a martial art. We don't downplay or degrade the importance of health benefits & the internal development, but we treat it for what it is above anything else associated, a martial art. We teach qigong in association with it and practice the forms slow & deliberate linking the body, mind & spirit, but then we push hands & work applications quite a bit.

If somebody comes in looking to gain better health, they get it & then a little something else. If somebody comes in looking for self defense, they're getting that plus a good work out, but not as outwardly vigorous as our Shaolin curriculum. If somebody is expecting to be one with the world & blend with the universe after class or two, or be able to teach what we teach them, they're going to be disappointed.

I've been studying taiji for a little over 2.5 years, Yang & Chen, and barely understand what's happening. I know what's supposed to happen, but I'm still in the process of making the energy start to move, let alone leaving my body for the higher enlightenment. One note about this, it's not a reflection on my sifu, I'm not a real strong internalist... I prefer the Shaolin side of my school. It's a little more direct for me. :)

[Jeff Burger]

For self defense I most likely wouldnt recommend CMA for learning in a short period of time...though that can depend alot on the school and teacher.
Sanda / Sanshou is a good for the stand up game but most wouldnt consider it a style (I dont).

Take boxing , Judo and add a few low kicks and you covered alot of bases.

JMB

[RobNyc]

Originally posted by Jeff Burger
What does the person wants from their training??? Self defense , sport competition , health / fitness , hobby


JMB

What I want is :

Unarmed fighting applications ,Striking, Kicking, Grappling, bone & joint breaking attack methods or joint locks + locking, tissue & organ attacking methods or vital points(areas) attacking methods, weapons, + and last but not least the soft side like health beneficials things like qigong (chigung), meditation, stuff that the internal styles have.
hope that helps. i am looking at a very complete style and want to find it.

[RobNyc]

It's like
Yin & Yang

From External training to Internal training.

[Jeff Burger]

I think every cMA would claim to offer that, but sadly few do.

If you really want to be able to fight with CMA Id recommend a good kickboxing school for strong bascis and then see if you can add the more technical CMA stuff to your arsenal.

Many CMA dont have grappling but aot of defenses against grappling. Standing locks is not the grappling Im talking about, Im talking on the ground.


And sadly again most the Chi Kung people out there are charlatans.

Jeff

[TenchuDude]

I would reccomend both external and internal. It doesn't matter what you want from it because you would get everything, fitness, self-defense, balance. All things related would come from training like this.

[SevenStar]

any style can work for a person, but if I had to pick a CMA for someone to train in, I'd pick shuai chiao

[TkdWarrior]

i would prefer Bagua or Xing-Yi as they r mostly direct to the point.
agressive ... wat else internal too...

[TenchuDude]

I guess if I had to pick one style it would probably be Huang Gar, it's both soft and hard.

[Zujitsuka]

I'm not a practitioner of CMA but based on my experiences with folks who are, here is what I'd recommend:

Sport: San Shou

Health: Tai Chi (Yang)

I don't have a suggestion for self defense.

Peace & blessings,

[TenchuDude]

Zujitsuka- Choy li Fut, Huang Gar, Tiger, Dragon, and Bok Mei are all great for self defense. There are even others. Ask Jeff C. He can tell you more than I think I could ever know.

[dine_n_dash]

Originally posted by sean_stonehart


ROCK AND ROLL MANDEIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My kinda girl!!!!

Good answer & well put. I define the taiji internal arts as: Tie cheeeeee for those who need to love the world & hug the universe & then there taiji for the martial artist. It's a bit more simplistic than your definition, but says the same thing! :D

Thanks for focusing this topic as you are. The upside is that it would appear that more people are starting to see beyond the New Age-y aspects of taijiquan (can you hear Yanni playing in the background?) and seeing once again the completeness of the art (especially Chen style for those who wish to display some real vigor). Taiji in the States has fallen prey to the same sort of crowd that takes a 3-day qigong seminar and then hangs a shingle offering their 'expertise'. But the true students know the real story and have cast aside the aspersions that may come from their externalistic buddies. Because of a bad knee problem I left my TangSooDo class after a few years and went to a Chen master here in Seoul (Suh Myong-won) whose teacher is the second brother (the one who stays in Chenjiagou to teach while Chen XiaoWang ventures overseas). I can tell you that I feel better since starting Chen Style, and my legs/hips took a whipping the first couple of months despite my TangSooDo training. If you can find a real master who teaches the real deal, you will find the holes in your external training very quickly (and be sore for awhile). Taijiquan is a great art, very well-balanced (of course), and more complete than a lot of people will ever know.

[RobNyc]

Thanks you guys a lot...

I wanted to train in Bujinkan/Genbukan folks, but the KungFu folks have helped me more or care less about Money than others.
I'm most likely gonna train in Shaolin Hung Fut Kung Fu.

[Travis]

Mandeigh Wells

Hey I have a question since you seem to know so much about taiji, who did you learn it from? And if there are so many weak teachers out there teaching, then who do you know of that is a high level teacher or a teacher that is worth learning under?

[Mandeigh Wells]

Hey I have a question since you seem to know so much about taiji, who did you learn it from? And if there are so many weak teachers out there teaching, then who do you know of that is a high level teacher or a teacher that is worth learning under? a very good question too. How do I know the difference between a good teacher and a weak one.......its simple 10 years of training with all kinds of people, then finding someone who repositions your body and only says a couple of things that make the penny drop and transforms what you are doing......someone who can demonstrate not only what they are doing but how you get there and probably more importantly why you do what you do in a particular way. But its about more than that too, it about the whole way in which the person 'behaves' in that do they keep their taiji for the class and then change when they come out or do they maintain the body mechanics, demenour, essences in everything they do? When I first saw my teacher I knew that for the first time I was seeing the real deal, because for the first time I could see that this person was completely connected in her body, she had a graceful movement but not like a dancer, it was full of power and control. Later when I started training regularly with her, that power was even more evident in the applications. And all the time her demenour is undisturbed even when she is tying you up in knots. There are plenty of disconnected taiji teachers, their legs and arms finish independently, they 'break' the back, they don't understand ( in their bodies) the body requirements and essences. they alter the movements to make them into applications........
I have studied with a few different people, but with my current teacher for 3 years. She is very focussed and studied initially with Yang Zhen Duo and later with Yang Zhen Ji, with much of her studies with Christopher Pei.

Mandeigh

[Travis]

I went to this big library yesterday to see if there were any books on taiji, since you said taiji included hard and soft, and tai chi was just soft. I found nothing on taiji which I thought was interesting since i found a few on tai chi. I just wanted to read a little bit on it so I could understand it better maybe. It seems taiji isn't that popular or well known. I'm afraid I won't find a school on it in my area cause this actually interests me.

Oh I have a general question whats an average price for a class?
I don't have much money and I just want to get an idea. You can put down the money and hours that you know of like how much a two hour class costs where you are from or whatever. Thanks

[Mandeigh Wells]

Taiji and Tai Chi are the same one is the modern pinyin spelling (Taiji and Taijiquan) and not so widely used as the Wade Giles Romanisation of Tai Chi and Tai Chi Chuan. Taiji combines both hard and soft and but most books will refer to it as a soft style.....the same way as people think its really gentle :D Prices vary depending on where you go. Classes run out of adult education centres tend to be a bit cheaper in the UK classes range from around £2 - £7 for an hour to an hour and a half.

Mandeigh

[2fisted]

In my short dealings with each, both Lung Ying and Hung Gar seemed very good, well balanced arts.

[KansasStudent]

I have found due to real life experiences in both Military and Law Enforcement applications. I would recommend Chinese Kenpo Karate. The fluid and aggressive movements are neccessary in life and death problems. Thanks KansasStudent :p

[Jeff Burger]

Welcome to Budoseek Kansas Student

per forum rules please include real name.

Jeff

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Mandeigh Wells
a very good question too. How do I know the difference between a good teacher and a weak one.......its simple 10 years of training with all kinds of people, then finding someone who repositions your body and only says a couple of things that make the penny drop and transforms what you are doing......someone who can demonstrate not only what they are doing but how you get there and probably more importantly why you do what you do in a particular way. Mandeigh



Martial Arts class: $60

Martial Arts Uniform: $80

Martial Arts Shoes: $40

A teacher to put all this together and make something out of you.

"Priceless"


jeff:)

[jmd161]

I could'nt resist doing that.

It's very much true though!



jeff:)

[Mandeigh Wells]

Martial Arts class: $60

Martial Arts Uniform: $80

Martial Arts Shoes: $40

A teacher to put all this together and make something out of you.

"Priceless"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Mandeigh :laugh:

[Iron Dove]

then dont choose one style

[gr455h0pp3r]

Wing Chun is a great CMA.

[kwan kune]

Mandeigh:


OK, now I understand what you are saying! I have never considered it to be a 'hard' art, only as a tool for calming the body and realigning my 'chi'. I am going to do some serious reading about the 'hard' side of Taiji, and try to understand the 'hard' applications. I was always taught that TaiChi was done slow, with rhythm and calm. I never explored the 'hard side', but I'm going to.:)

Lance Hyatt
the idea that taichi id a nice exercise is a myth taich is downright mean if you look at apps

[kwan kune]

Lance wrote:

OK, now I understand what you are saying! I have never considered it to be a 'hard' art, only as a tool for calming the body and realigning my 'chi'. I am going to do some serious reading about the 'hard' side of Taiji, and try to understand the 'hard' applications. I was always taught that TaiChi was done slow, with rhythm and calm. I never explored the 'hard side', but I'm going to. you are not alone, taiji has been seriously hyjacked and with many 'teachers' springing up will little real understanding of the art it is in danger of becoming lost to the world despite one of the fastest growing practises. In Yang Shi Taijiquan (Yang Family Taijiquan) there are a set of 'rules' for practice called the 10 essences. Some of them are concerned with the body requirments of practice and some are more about the 'manner' in which you practice.
1. Raise the spirit: physically this is aligning the head and neck, but it also describes the upright posture through the whole body and where the eyes look and about having 360% vision.....
2. Sinking shoulders and elbows.....strength through the correct alinments, loose, no tension in arms.
3. Loosen chest and round the back.....more guidance on the way the body is held for maximum softness but still strong in its structure.
4. Loosen waist open Kua: te waist controls the movemnts in taiji, the kua refers to the inguinal folds of the groin, to be tight and tense in this area affects the ability to use the waist, feel the weight changes and be rooted physically to the ground.
5. Understand the weight changes in the legs. feeling the change of weight as each frame changes, knowing where your weight is and balanced at every precise moment in each movemnt.
6. Cooridnate upper and lower body. looking at the relationship between the arms and legs, the body moving as a single unit even though the arms and leg, upper and lower body may be moving at different speeds....they all finish the application at the same time if not the energy is disturbed.
7 Continutity . moving smothely from one posture or one energy to the next, can only happen when the first 5 essences exsist.
8 Unite internal intent and outside body......every move orginates in the mind and from the begining to the end the movemnt should have 'intent' or purpose. It is common to see taiji people practising with loose floopy hands, missenterpreting the word relaxed, where there is no intent there is no energy.
9. Use mind not force. this is at a more advanced level. It doesn't mean that you send people flying by using your mind, but it is again related to demenour and the way you carry and express yourself....quite closely related to focus.
10. seek still ness in motion and motion in still ness....the new agers love this one as they try to become 'one' with the universe. It is about seeking a balance and tranquility, practising in an undisturbd manner, in harmony with your surroundings, your opponant, no fear or adverse emotions, appearing very calm on the outside but being alert, aware, but not disturbed.......but we can't do any of this without high spirit.

Yang Chen Fu was responsble for much of the develoment of the slow aspect of taijiquan as we know it today. Practsing the movemnts slowley means that we can also practise them precisely with attention to the essenses, the harmonies, the alignments the structure.......Yang Cheng Fu was reknown as a martial arts master, but then he practised taiji in all the aspects, using his fighting skills as necessary. I think the main problem these days is that in the West there are not enough high level teachers who are martial artists. They have learned a basic sequence of steps call them selves a taiji teacher and then start a class. The sad part is that many of them believe they do know what they are teaching because they have had low level teachers themslef and haven't really seen what taiji is about. So one it goes with more taiji dance classes and less of the real deal.
Taiji applications are practised slowley to develope listing energy and sticking energy, but taiji applications are practised in real-time too...

happy reading folks!

Mandeigh:bow:

that is the good thing about my system all of our teachers are acountable to higher teachers who if they dont teach right will be corrected and if thay fail to corect thier mistakes thay will essentially be excomunicated

[Patrick Hayes]

I've heard a lot about Choy Li Fut on BudoSeek, and it sounds really awesome. I'm trying to find a school around here so that I can check it out.

I also want to second some of the earlier posts from taiji students; taiji is often thought of as slow, old-people-in-the-park stuff, but if practiced correctly, it can also be very dynamic and effective. I was part of a demonstration where a man who had been practicing taiji for over 50 years challenged us to go up and try to grab him by the wrist. One by one, he blasted us across the dojo by quickly taking our balance, forcing us to stumble forward, then redirecting that force back into us, causing us to stumble back. It was very simple move executed with impeccable timing, and that made it very effective, especially for the first uke to experience it!

[pretzl]

Choy lee fut. It is the best style that I have trained in CMA.

Personally I much prefered it over WC and any internal arts.

I find it has a very powerful striking philosophy that reflects many principles of western boxing. The kicks are very powerful and IMHO, very realistic.

I also find it a fast aggressive attacking style. I have recently gone back after a long time training other things. I still do no gi grappling, and feel there a great mix.

[sean_stonehart]

Thumbs up for CLF...

[Walter Y.F. Wong]

I would recommend the school that teaches effective combative usage of their style. All styles are good. It's the quality of instruction/training that is more important than the style itself.

[sean_stonehart]

I've heard a lot about Choy Li Fut on BudoSeek, and it sounds really awesome. I'm trying to find a school around here so that I can check it out.

I also want to second some of the earlier posts from taiji students; taiji is often thought of as slow, old-people-in-the-park stuff, but if practiced correctly, it can also be very dynamic and effective. I was part of a demonstration where a man who had been practicing taiji for over 50 years challenged us to go up and try to grab him by the wrist. One by one, he blasted us across the dojo by quickly taking our balance, forcing us to stumble forward, then redirecting that force back into us, causing us to stumble back. It was very simple move executed with impeccable timing, and that made it very effective, especially for the first uke to experience it!

Choy Lee Fut in Seattle --- Mak Hin Fai ... one of the best in the country. www.makskungfu.com

[kodanjaclay]

One of the sets I learned at the Shaolin Academy in Miami was a choy lay fut set. Awesome, fluid and strong. I also like Mantis. I'm working some 7 star stuff and it seems pretty cool.

[5 Animal Disciple]

Lance Wildcat1 do you train at shaolin arts???

[Black Fox]

[ Quote from Stonehart: I've been studying taiji for a little over 2.5 years, Yang & Chen, and barely understand what's happening. I know what's supposed to happen, but I'm still in the process of making the energy start to move, let alone leaving my body for the higher enlightenment. One note about this, it's not a reflection on my sifu, I'm not a real strong internalist... I prefer the Shaolin side of my school. It's a little more direct for me. ]

Yang 24 - very simple form. Chen can become a difficult proposition to locate when you live in the wrong location. i know that Chen kept the martial aspect 2 it very strong. i never once wittnessed this style in action. my tai-chi experience merely goes back one year. some may consider even thinking this an abuse of the 24 form: i do possess other martial arts training - could u recomend any possible approach 4 a non-standard application of practices already known by myself from TKD/WCKF to a yand tai-chi format to understand a martial edge 2 these practice? i work this any way i can now, but Chen actually stomps and uses varient speeds, right?

main diff. between taijii soft and martial? what additions actually upgrade the concepts in the soft form (soft, unity, flexible adaptability, health) to a full-martial (up 2 full spd, sharp, intense - yet relaxed) format for developing the martial aspect, without loosing the unity with deeper pattern and allowing a refinement between both sides for gradiant control like what one can see clearly present in good tai-chi/push-hands.

since u posses both directness and an appeciation for hard/shaolin/martial aspects of KF i figured u would not object much in horror to the idea.

[Black Fox]

i would caste my vote for starting an external stayle for young.

internal style for older or more wisdom-prone people. :wink2:

[Black Fox]

determinant on the learners need.

style should match the needs and potential of the student.
the student often lacks the insight to make such a weighty assesment.
teachers often only want many students to fill out their accounting needs.

requires an excellent instructor that actually can teach the student.

sometimes the 'best' instructor for a student or under certain conditions does not simply equal 'best kung-fu man' in the area. the very best might not actually possess any way to communicate the neccesary event. a 'so-called' 'lesser' instructer may suffice, not just merely adequetely - but may carry what the learner needs then and there.

the 'best' in this case often do not teach. do not teach for money. they must instead find their student. the student almost certainly cannot tell and make a judgement of who will 'suite them'.

who 'suites' the rough displays roughness. the student cannot gauge in most cases the reality of their position. they go with what they 'like' instead.

i liked 'big wheels' when i carried an age designation of 8.
do i just go out and buy my 'ride' at Toys-R-Us tody?

[Cynikal Mantis]

Definatly southern praying mantis because it realy ephasises the use of attack as defence.The few moves that i know of that are initiated as parries are deceptive and realy are subtle strikes against pressure points in the wrist or elbows, that in turn generate reflexive force to drive a second strike at the opponent.As being a center line style the number of moves and forms are limited in comparacent to circular styles, but what SPM lacks in flamboyance and style it truley conpansates in effiancy.

[batosa]

i am so freakin confused.
lol

[Yang Wei Xin]

Ask some questions if you need to, all this talk about internal/external, hard/soft, can be a little wierd if you don't know the lingo.

[Xuzen]

If the CMA has weapon play.... I am in. I am especially infatuated with the Chinese spear play.

[Jeff Burger]

Weapons was the whole reason I got into CMA.
From everything I saw back then they couldnt fight but they had alot of cool toys.


Jeff

[jwinch2]

This thread (http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/necromancer.htm)

[jutsow]

If you want more kicks, a northern style. Less kicks a southern style (such as Choy lay fut. It is awesome).
I would say some version of Mantis covers your request. But in one form or another many Chinese styles cover that request. Most schools teach Chin Na (the king of bone displacement, my opinion) as a part of their studies.

Side note- We do some shaolin in my school and you gentlemen are correct in saying it is very physical. Great cardio though!

[Tajiey]

Hello everyone;

I am new to the community, but like everyone I have an opinion. I try to be versatile so my opinion can be changed. While all martial arts are good I would recommend the style that I study which is Chat Sing Tong Long Kuen (Seven Star Praying Mantis Fist). I have been studying at the PMKRI Wicked Hand Kwoon with Sfiu Michael Whetstone since 1995. There were times when I had lapses in training because of injury and sickness, but I have been training hard for the last year and really dedicating myself to the style, and to my Sifu.

Seven Star Praying Mantis uses kicks, punches, joint locking, and throws in its arsenal. It also utilizes principles; hard, soft, combat, and twelve keyword principles. Chat Sing Tong Long is a no nonsense combat style where the object is to destroy your foe. The training can be very intense, but I love the style. It helps me to walk away from a fight, and not feel like a coward.

Thanks a lot, I have seen some very good replies here.


Tajiey