Training knives

[Chris Wade]

Anyone have any experience with these: www.shocknife.com

[Musubi Dojo]

Interesting. I don't have any experience with them.

I've always used a wooden tanto with googles and gloves.

Bruises are a good indicator of where you have been hit. They add a pretty decent stress factor as well.

Cheers
c

[Mekugi]

At $499 a pop, I think I will stick to wooden or alloy knives.

[Haze]

Take a rubber knife. Coat the blade with some water soluable gel and dip the blade in some colored chalk. You will see where you get caught with the blade.
(and you can buy alot of chalk for $499)

[elder999]

That's a silly thing.

There's a thing called a "No lie" blade that I've heard good things about,and enjoyed the one time 've used one, but kits run about $140, and the blade itself is about $90. What I've done is take a wooden knife and coat the edge and tip with lipstick-works really well.

Rubber knives pretty much suck, in my opinion-a wooden blade can "hurt" enough to get the message, but a rubber knife doesn't give much feedback.

[Musubi Dojo]

Rubber knives pretty much suck, in my opinion-a wooden blade can "hurt" enough to get the message, but a rubber knife doesn't give much feedback.

That's been my experience....

[wab25]

We sometimes take a real knife, with a sharp blade. We usually use two, a folding Buck knife and WWII KaBar. We go a little slower, but even then you see exactly where you need to improve. Whats interesting is that after you go slow with a live blade, when you get back to the practice knife, you are much more aware of where the practice blade is.

[RA Miller]

Here's the review I wrote for some people who asked elsewhere:

Okay, the thing took forever to arrive, so it's time for a review.

I'm not going to get technical. All that literature is available.

First thing, if you were to follow the safety instructions to the letter, the Shocknife would be almost useless as a training device. Our litigation-happy and, hence, litigation paranoid culture is at fault.. still, there it is.

Second, it is a rigid training weapon, so that must be taken into account- in my profession, the attacks to worry about are close range staccato thrusts. With any rigid device, these can result in serious injury sharp or not. That mandates armor to train safely... and the charge won't penetrate armor. It won't penetrate the extra layer of cloth on the cargo pockets on my pants.

At the low setting, you notice the shock and if the blade is dragged across the skin, it feels like a papercut. At the "X" setting, the first several times I hit my leg or arm, I jerked away. As I got used to it, I could hold it against skin and ignore it...but move it across the skin and I was flinching away again.

That's another thing- real knives don't always hurt and I can't speak for everyone else but it seems that I flinch differently (faster and more sharply) to electricity than I do to other kinds of unexpected pain. May not be relevant.

What it is excellent for, especially on the X setting, is making people take the training seriously or avoid it all together. I took it to a weapons thing with some of the best weapon instructors in the area. When you hit that button and sparks start spitting they became far more cautious. You could see them go up on their toes, lean back and shrink. That was cool.

End analysis- I'm glad the agency bought it and I didn't. It will be useful for party tricks, but we couldn't safely use it in a con-sim or one of our live scenarios safely. And I'll drag it out when I teach the seminar classes on "Why I don't Pretend to Teach Knife Defense". If you have people who already train weapons seriously (with proper fear and respect) it won't add much and may put some false details into their heads eg- "getting cut hurts like a shock so work with the flinch" or training to react to a sound that a real knife doesn't make. If you have people who aren't taking the training seriously, the shocknife will help with that.

Rory

[Gordon Nore]

Rubber knives pretty much suck, in my opinion-a wooden blade can "hurt" enough to get the message, but a rubber knife doesn't give much feedback.

The only time I've used a rubber practice blade was when I was practising in a small room in the community centre that had a mirror on the wall. A couple of the techniques I was working on involve the knife getting knocked out of my partner's hand. Like others I prefer the wooden practice weapon.

[TonyU]

- in my profession, the attacks to worry about are close range staccato thrusts. With any rigid device, these can result in serious injury sharp or not. That mandates armor to train safely...
Rory,
Excellent post as always. Would it be too much trouble to expound on this type of attack you stated?
I understand perfectly what you talking about, but many of our readers may not.
What would you feel would be some basic principles of defense besides avoidance? In other words, what to do if one is caught in this type of attack?
I have some ideas and have been working on some things but would like to hear your expertise opinion. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject.
Thanks.

[Mekugi]

Great review Rory. Like Tony, I am interested in the type of attack you encounter. Is it like "thrust-thrust-thrust?"

[Musubi Dojo]

about are close range staccato thrusts

I took this to mean rapid fire thrusts, possibly from a blind spot in an almost grappling situation.

I'm with Tony and Mekugi about wanting to hear more..

Cheers
c

[Mekugi]

link up : http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18611

[K Williams]

I've never used those training knives, but I've used aluminum training knives from EDGES2 for years.

http://www.trainingblades.com

[Koshu]

Two people I know (one a cop who trains at the same jujutsu dojo I do, and has used the Shocknife during her department's training, the other a co-worker who trains in Krav Maga) both think highly of the Shocknife, and their praises are largely along the same lines as the positive comments made about it earlier in this thread.

But at half a grand???

At my school, we work out with rubber, wooden and metal training knives. It IS disconcerting to have a rubber blade flopping around, but when we practice reversal techniques that involve stabbing the attacker with his / her own blade at or near full speed, the merits of rubber knives become clear.

My teacher has police training videos of suspects quickly delivering short knife thrusts into cops' bodies as they try to unholster and draw their pistols (the video depicts how the common 7-yard distance for practical firearms training came into being). I'm not sure if this type of attack is what Mr. Miller referred to in his review of the Shocknife, but in any case, the attacks on the video are very fast and come from beneath the officers' lines of sight.

Mr. Bohan's comments about the merits of controlled training with a real knife were intriguing as well. Requires a lot of trust in your partner, but as they say, "there's no substitute for the real thing."

I've also found that practicing certain knife-defense techniques (such as vs. slashes and thrusting stabs) with an uke who starts with a bokken (shoto length) forces me to move in and control the weapon with more sense of urgency. Then when we switch to a shorter training knife and do the same technique, my response tends to be quicker and more sure.

Mert

[Eric Joyce]

Anyone have any experience with these: www.shocknife.com
Hey Chris,

I have used them before and they are very effective. PM me if you want more details.

[Cdnronin]

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I had an opportunity to try a new company's version of the shock knife on the weekend. Nok knives from Thailand, who are heavily associated with Tom Sotis and his AMOK knife fighting group, sent a prototype blade over for trial.

The electrical shock is effective in certain ways. It's not like getting tasered, or being incapacitated by any means, but it does sting a bit, which gives you immediate feedback, as well as making an audible crackling sound when it connects with your flash. I have previosly used blades with chalk or lipstick, but you don't register how many times you have been slashed until you stop and see the marks on your clothes and skin. With the electric knife, you have immediate feedback.

Interesting tool, should be available for about half the price of the shock knife.