Paper Money Unfair To Blind...

[Cliff Hargrave]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/28/D8LMC4600.html

Judge: Make Bills Recognizable to Blind
Nov 28 6:10 PM US/Eastern

By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON



The government discriminates against blind people by printing money that all looks and feels the same, a federal judge said Tuesday in a ruling that could change the face of American currency.

U.S. District Judge James Robertson ordered the Treasury Department to come up with ways for the blind to tell bills apart. He said he wouldn't tell officials how to fix the problem, but he ordered them to begin working on it.

The American Council of the Blind has proposed several options, including printing bills of differing sizes, adding embossed dots or foil to the paper or using raised ink.

"Of the more than 180 countries that issue paper currency, only the United States prints bills that are identical in size and color in all their denominations," Robertson wrote. "More than 100 of the other issuers vary their bills in size according to denomination, and every other issuer includes at least some features that help the visually impaired."

Government attorneys argued that forcing the Treasury Department to change the size of the bills or add texture would make it harder to prevent counterfeiting. Robertson was not swayed.

"The fact that each of these features is currently used in other currencies suggests that, at least on the face of things, such accommodations are reasonable," he wrote.

He said the government was violating the Rehabilitation Act, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in government programs. The opinion came after a four-year legal fight.

Electronic devices are available to help blind people differentiate between bills, but many complain that they are slow, expensive and unreliable. Visually impaired shoppers frequently rely on store clerks to help them.

"It's just frankly unfair that blind people should have to rely on the good faith of people they have never met in knowing whether they've been given the correct change," said Jeffrey A. Lovitky, attorney for the plaintiffs in the lawsuit.

Others have developed ways to cope with the similarly shaped bills. Melanie Brunson, a member of the American Council of the Blind, told the court that she folds her bills into different shapes: $1 bills stay straight, $5 bills are folded in half left to right, $10 bills in half top to bottom and $20 in quarters.

The Treasury Department had no comment on the ruling Tuesday. The government has 10 days to decide whether to appeal.

U.S. bills have not always been the same size. In 1929, the government standardized the size and shrank all bills by about 30 percent to lower manufacturing costs and help distinguish between genuine and counterfeit notes.

Since then, the Treasury Department has worked to stay ahead of counterfeiters. Security threads and microprinting were introduced in The portraits were enlarged in 1996, and an infrared feature was added to encourage the development of electronic readers for the blind.

The latest redesign is under way. New $10 bills, featuring splashes of orange, yellow and red, hit the market this year, following similar changes to the $20 bill in 2003 and the $50 bill in 2004. The $5 facelift is due in 2008.

In court documents, government attorneys said changing the way money feels would be expensive. Cost estimates ranged from $75 million in equipment upgrades and $9 million annual expenses for punching holes in bills to $178 million in one-time charges and $50 million annual expenses for printing bills of varying sizes.

Any change to the dollar's design could ripple into the vending machine industry, which participated in discussions regarding previous redesigns. The American Council of the Blind is not seeking changes to the $1 bill, according to court documents.

The Treasury Department spent $4.2 billion on printing over the past decade, Robertson said. Adding a raised number to the bills would have increased costs less than 5 percent over that period, he said.

"If additional savings could be gained by incorporating the new feature into a larger redesign, such as those that took place in 1996 or 2004, the total burden of adding such a feature would be even smaller," Robertson wrote.

[starkjudo]

I'd be willing to bet so much money this idiot judge is on the 9th circuit.

[Cliff Hargrave]

I'd be willing to bet so much money this idiot judge is on the 9th circuit.


Nope, not the 9th Circus, he is a Clinton appointee for the DC district. He is the judge that resigned from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court in protest over the wire tapping policy. He also was the one that dismissed the tax evasion charges against Webster Hubble.

[Dennis Monk]

What's next, guaranteed driver's licenses?
I guess music CD's discriminate against the deaf.

[AndrewSimonsen]

It is a legitimate complaint. Think about how easy it would be for a dishonest store clerk to hoodwink a blind person.

[Cliff Hargrave]

It is a legitimate complaint. Think about how easy it would be for a dishonest store clerk to hoodwink a blind person.

No doubt it is a legit complaint. The question is however, is it the place of a U.S. District Judge to basically order the U.S. government to make such a drastic and expensive change (starting within 10 days!) from the bench.

Some believe that something like this should be decided in the Congress and not legislated from the bench.

[AndrewSimonsen]

On that one... Well there is a reason behind our endless appeals system.

[Jonathan Randall]

No doubt it is a legit complaint. The question is however, is it the place of a U.S. District Judge to basically order the U.S. government to make such a drastic and expensive change (starting within 10 days!) from the bench.

Some believe that something like this should be decided in the Congress and not legislated from the bench.

I definitely agree with you on that - constitutionally, IMO, it IS a Congressional issue and NOT a judicial one.

How about a slight change in texture in one corner of each bill for each denomination? Or how about raising the currency in bas-relief? Something inexpensive (relatively) that can be added on to existing designs?

[Tang-Soo-Architect]

Easy solution. Re-patriotise yourself into the British Commonwealth and you can use our notes then. It'll save you a bundle on having to print new ones.




(well I thought it was a good idea) :o

[wildwills]

Easy solution. Re-patriotise yourself into the British Commonwealth and you can use our notes then. It'll save you a bundle on having to print new ones.




(well I thought it was a good idea) :o

I just love British humor. Then we'll be able get back to speaking correct English....LMOL.

[adouglasmhor]

Easy solution. Re-patriotise yourself into the British Commonwealth and you can use our notes then. It'll save you a bundle on having to print new ones.




(well I thought it was a good idea) :o


Look it's enough of a problem getting you lot to accept Scottish and Northern Irish money without getting anyone else involved :wink2:

[Mandeigh Wells]

Look it's enough of a problem getting you lot to accept Scottish and Northern Irish money without getting anyone else involved :wink2: aint that the truth!


What's next, guaranteed driver's licenses?Dennis that was a bit mean.

What's wrong with a line of brail or somthing on the notes?

[Dennis Monk]

Dennis that was a bit mean.
What's wrong with a line of brail or somthing on the notes?
Nothing mean meant by it at all. In this country we have a law makers and those who judge according to the law.
Judges are not supposed to have the right to demand action which in and of itself creates law. I would have no problem what so ever if they could devise a relatively cheap system for blind people to determine what bills they have in hand. There would be some questions though:
Would a merchant be required to only give change back to a blind person using the new currency?
How much brail embedded currency would a business owner be required to keep on hand?
What happens if he runs out of it?
Can any of these be answered without a law being passed? (No.)

[AndrewSimonsen]

If all currency was blind person friendly it would not be an issue.

[Dennis Monk]

Certainly not.
Feel free to pay my share in increased taxes when they decide to do this.
A new bill would have to be printed for every one in circulation.
Not even close to being feasible.

[wildwills]

Certainly not.
Feel free to pay my share in increased taxes when they decide to do this.
A new bill would have to be printed for every one in circulation.
Not even close to being feasible.

Quite true. It would take years to replace the bills currently in circulation...i.e. booku time, material and labor. Not to say that it shouldn;t be done...just saying there won't be any easy or immediate fix to the problem is all.

[CDunn]

Certainly not.
Feel free to pay my share in increased taxes when they decide to do this.
A new bill would have to be printed for every one in circulation.
Not even close to being feasible.

The average lifespan of a bill in regular circulation is less than two years, with few bills lasting more than three years, though denominations of $50+ last longer. A design change will circulate through the economy at significant speed. How many black front, green back $20s do you regularly handle? Not very many, I'll bet.

[Dennis Monk]

How many black front, green back $20s do you regularly handle? Not very many, I'll bet.
Actually, being as how one of my job duties is to count money on incoming inmates, you would be suprised.

[Musubi Dojo]

Certainly not.
Feel free to pay my share in increased taxes when they decide to do this.
A new bill would have to be printed for every one in circulation.
Not even close to being feasible.

Money is constantly being moved in and out of circulation as it wears out. It should be relatively easy to change the design and circulate into use over a few years.

Oopps, what CDunn said....

[TEA]

Some believe that something like this should be decided in the Congress and not legislated from the bench.

He was not legislating from the bench, he was interprating an existing law passed by Congress as it relates to a government program (the issuing of money). Unless Congress includes a specific exemption for the Treasury Dept., the law applies to them in the same way that it does to every other federal agency.

[Cliff Hargrave]

We should just do away with money and implant a chip in everyone's forehead or right hand that is connected to their bank account. Scan the chip, auto deduction from the account, problem solved.

[Dennis Monk]

Cliff you are just trying to set me off on a rant aren't you.

And [the Antichrist] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save [except] he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:16-18 KJV

[Cliff Hargrave]

Cliff you are just trying to set me off on a rant aren't you.


Would I do that? :wink2:

[TEA]

Bar code tatoos would be cheaper. :rolleyes:

[Musubi Dojo]

Cliff you are just trying to set me off on a rant aren't you.

So a chip in the left hand or the buttocks would be ok? :up:

[TicTac]

What I think we have lost sight of is this...

The fact that blind people are put in a position of disadvantage by our currency is sad, but changing our entire monetary system to aleviate this problem seems a bit much. I mean I am a big guy. It is very inconveinent for me to always bend down to get a drink at public fountains, use public restrooms and don't even start talking about public transportation. Short people have the oposite problems. Many elderly and disabled people have a hard time negotiating steep grades. Mentally challenged people have a hard time figuring out solutions to some complex problems. Ugly Highschool kids have a difficult time getting a date for the prom. You get the picture. Where do we draw the line at compensating for someones differences, however tragic they may be, at the expence of the general public.

Cold - probably, A real issue in our society - I think so.

[J4d3]

What I think we have lost sight of is this...

The fact that blind people are put in a position of disadvantage by our currency is sad, but changing our entire monetary system to aleviate this problem seems a bit much. I mean I am a big guy. It is very inconveinent for me to always bend down to get a drink at public fountains, use public restrooms and don't even start talking about public transportation. Short people have the oposite problems. Many elderly and disabled people have a hard time negotiating steep grades. Mentally challenged people have a hard time figuring out solutions to some complex problems. Ugly Highschool kids have a difficult time getting a date for the prom. You get the picture. Where do we draw the line at compensating for someones differences, however tragic they may be, at the expence of the general public.

Cold - probably, A real issue in our society - I think so.

I don't want to make light of your struggle through life as a large person but really do you think you are in the same boat as someone who is blind? At what point in that very long, arduous trip from standing up to sitting down on a public toilet are you put in a position of being ripped off by a shady sales clerk for very real amounts of money? I don't think its fair at all to compare these people that have these minor inconveniences to someone with a disability. It sounds like you are dismissing the blind who have a valid concern here as just being whiners. Please tell me different. I apologize if I misinterpreted you and honestly I hope I did.

[David Craik]

I'm all for gradually replacing money (as it's destroyed) with a modified version that would help blind people distinguish denominations. No different that having wheelchair ramps in public buildings.

The government blows reams of money on crap every year. Instead of funding studies on the effects of moon dust to garden slugs for a few years, we could do this instead.

[Ramirez]

What I think we have lost sight of is this...

The fact that blind people are put in a position of disadvantage by our currency is sad, but changing our entire monetary system to aleviate this problem seems a bit much. I mean I am a big guy. It is very inconveinent for me to always bend down to get a drink at public fountains, use public restrooms and don't even start talking about public transportation. Short people have the oposite problems. Many elderly and disabled people have a hard time negotiating steep grades. Mentally challenged people have a hard time figuring out solutions to some complex problems. Ugly Highschool kids have a difficult time getting a date for the prom. You get the picture. Where do we draw the line at compensating for someones differences, however tragic they may be, at the expence of the general public.

Cold - probably, A real issue in our society - I think so.

I am with J4D3 on this, you really cannot be serious with this. I would have to say blindness is one of the worst disabilities you could have in a society so dependent on sight, I am not sure what the expense is for changing the currency but it is probably not too bad and can be phased in. Money is a neccessity that you cannot do without, this doesn't even seem like a controversy, it is a good idea period.

In any case we make allowances for the elderly and disabled by providing ramps, we train the mentally challenged to find productive vocations.

[Tang-Soo-Architect]

Look it's enough of a problem getting you lot to accept Scottish and Northern Irish money without getting anyone else involved :wink2:
You mean you chaps have money?! Whatever next, a singing-dancing mouse with his own amusement park?

:up:

[Luebbers]

We should just do away with money and implant a chip in everyone's forehead or right hand that is connected to their bank account. Scan the chip, auto deduction from the account, problem solved.


Actually, you are not far from the future. I bet in 10-15 years, either biometrics or RFID chips will start to become a significant factor in our commerce. It was only a generation ago that the idea of credit cards (and debit cards) was considered "on the fringe" of financial transactions. Now it's the most common and universal "currency" we have, and it's good worldwide.

It's only a simple step to connect your fingerprint or computer chip to your credit card or bank account an eliminate currency and cards altogether. And it will happen the same way credit cards did. It will initially be a convenience for those willing to take the plunge, and over a period of time, so many people will switch over, and the process will become so ubiquitous, that everyone will just catch on.

[Dennis Monk]

"Everyone" is a word easy to say.
"Not me!" is what I will say.

[Luebbers]

"Everyone" is a word easy to say.
"Not me!" is what I will say.

That's what some people said about credit cards twenty years ago. It seems to me, that if you're worried about privacy issues, RFID or biometrics aren't any easier to trace than a credit card. If anything, I would think it would be more secure since it's alot easier to walk around using my credit card than it is my severed thumb.

It's one of those things that sounds creepy and Orwellian now, but eventually it becomes commonplace enough that NOT using it becomes more of a fringe than using it.

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone here who intentionally uses cash for the purpose of avoiding paper trail? Not for illegal things, but just in general.

[David Craik]

Just guessing, but I think it's more of a 'mark of the Beast' kind of thing with Dennis. :D

I prefer to use cash whenever possible simply because I'm a Luddite. I've written one check in about a year and it took two tries for me to use my debit card last night because I didn't realize the reader was a touch screen. With good old-fashioned greenbacks, there is closure and the transaction ends at the register. You can't bounce a $20 bill and you don't incur debt that you have to deal with later.

I also have phobia that for whatever reason my card won't work and I'll wind up looking like a total dork. When I deploy and have to use my government-mandated credit card, I get nothing but cash advances from an ATM and use that.

[Cliff Hargrave]

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone here who intentionally uses cash for the purpose of avoiding paper trail? Not for illegal things, but just in general.


A guy I used to work with, now retired, was that way. He cashed his paycheck every payday and went around paying bills in person or buying money orders to mail for other notes. When we went to mandatory direct deposit he would go to the bank and draw out all of his cash on payday. He had an unusual fear of government and of electronic theft.

[Abbax8]

One simple and cheap solution might be to bar code the money and use a small hand held reader. That way a blind person could check the bills they're being given as change.

We use to have a man run the canteen where I work. He was blind. He folded all his money in such a way he knew what they were by touch. He was not totally sightless, he could make out bills with difficulty when held in front of light, then he folded them for his convenience.

Peace

Dennis

[David Craik]

Or perhaps a reader could be devised that compares the denomination number in the corner with an image in memory, much like a change machine. Then the bills could remain the same. Of course, this puts the expense on the blind people to obtain such a device.

[Dennis Monk]

Just guessing, but I think it's more of a 'mark of the Beast' kind of thing with Dennis. :D
That is absolutely true. I am not one of the black helicopter, brain wave, alien invasion fearing type of people, but I think that RFID will eventually lead to an evil purpose. I just don't plan on being when when that comes to pass. :D

[Luebbers]

One simple and cheap solution might be to bar code the money and use a small hand held reader. That way a blind person could check the bills they're being given as change.

We use to have a man run the canteen where I work. He was blind. He folded all his money in such a way he knew what they were by touch. He was not totally sightless, he could make out bills with difficulty when held in front of light, then he folded them for his convenience.

Peace

Dennis

I've heard of the folding method before, but it seems that at some point you're at someone's mercy to at least get you started. Unless, of course, like the guy above you can see well enough to make out the bills with some deliberation.

[Grei]

I've heard of the folding method before, but it seems that at some point you're at someone's mercy to at least get you started. Unless, of course, like the guy above you can see well enough to make out the bills with some deliberation.

Not necessarily. In the future I can see many blind people hooked up to cameras that will give them some limited sight, via their tongue.

I'd link the science article about it, but I'm feeling rather absurd at the moment.

(Just look up "The Seeing Tongue")