Old Age and conditioning, efficiency

[GodofGamblers]

As I reach the twilight years, my training takes on a new angle, i.e. Efficiency.

I have made the following observations; please feel free to comment / discuss them:

1. Calisthenics: I haven't done these in ages and was amazed to see how effective they are! Burpees, front/rear lunges, hindu push-ups, side jumps, all these are even more effective than running, in my view. You can run for 30 min and still be winded after 30 seconds of boxing; the calisthenics though are great for sports like boxing where you need to expend sudden bursts of energy.

In addition, they can be done in a very small space.

2. Weights: I have grown skeptical of weights. The time for a full weight workout is 45min .... a waste of time! Imagine how many burpees you can do in that span of time! The mind boggles!


3. Using the legs and arms is much better for cardio than just arms: I would in fact wager that if one boxer trained as a kickboxer, doing kicks and punches, and the other just trained punches, the former would have much better cardio.

It makes a big difference, at least for me, if I spar using kicks and punches or just punches.

I'd like to see two fighters train with these two systems then put them against each in a pure boxing match: my guess is the one who trained as a kickboxer would have the conditioning edge.

4. Efficiency: When boxing, for some reason I find uppercuts and hooks take a lot more energy than straight rights and jabs. In fact, I bet that if you took two boxers who sparred with one just doing hooks and uppercuts and the other just doing jabs and straight punches, the latter would have a definite advantage due to better stamina.

The moral: To save energy, abstain from doing hooks and uppercuts but for training, emphasive them.

5. Forearm strength: Hand strength can increase the strength of your punches a lot. If you increase your hand strength by practising 'pinch grip' (carrying weight plates), and by opening and closing your hands in a a bucket of sand, your 'explosive grab' jabs will be much more powerful.

Be warned though that such techniques tire you out quickly.

6. When training, use jumps as much as possible to get cardio: i.e. burpees, broadjump, squat jumps, jumping rope, whereas while in the ring, jump as little as possible. Truly tiring and great for cardio!

Hope this is helpful.

[garyg]

Just starting to teach boxing to my home-schooled children. Ordered a DVD from Title Boxing by Jeff Fenech that teaches interval training. He teaches training in 3 minute rounds with 30 sec. breaks. He uses light weights for upper body excercises for 4 of those ronds. He changes exercises every 30 seconds. Therefore he has two complete sets that you do twice each of 6 different motions. I'm just using 2 1/2 # weights currently and my kids use weights until they tire then finish without them. Also, I can't jump rope (too old and uncordinated) so I substitute with a trampoline. Will be adding Muy Thai kicks in near future.

I've got a ways to go to reach the full 12 rounds with only 30 sec breaks. Sometimes during the upper body weight routine, I hae to take a 1 minute break after the first two sets.

BTW, what are burpees?

[Cliff Hargrave]

BTW, what are burpees?

Welcome to Budoseek!

I have all 15 volumes of the Title Boxing series and it is very good. Have you had any actual boxing training prior to this? As with all instructional videos, there are always some little details that get left out.

Burpees are like the old military squat-thrust exercise, except it adds a push-up on the down part and a jump coming up. If you do a web search you should be able to find plenty of video demos.

[garyg]

No formal training. Just doing this for a structured excercise program while teaching the kids to defend themselves.

[jjaje]

Gary,

How old are your kids? When using weights, how heavy are they using?

It's great to be an involved parent, tons of fun. My spouse and I had home schooled our kids for a time.

[garyg]

Just 1# for them. Oldest is 8 youngest almost 7.

[ezzthetic]

I have a few comments but my time right now is limited, so I'll be brief.


As I reach the twilight years, my training takes on a new angle, i.e. Efficiency.

I have made the following observations; please feel free to comment / discuss them:

1. Calisthenics: I haven't done these in ages and was amazed to see how effective they are!

Calisthenics are good, but aren't everything you need. Just because something is underplayed doesn't mean it becomes the only thing once discovered.


2. Weights: I have grown skeptical of weights.

Weights can be used in a lot of ways.


3. Using the legs and arms is much better for cardio than just arms: I would in fact wager that if one boxer trained as a kickboxer, doing kicks and punches, and the other just trained punches, the former would have much better cardio.

But he wouldn't know how to box as well as the boxer.


4. Efficiency: When boxing, for some reason I find uppercuts and hooks take a lot more energy than straight rights and jabs. In fact, I bet that if you took two boxers who sparred with one just doing hooks and uppercuts and the other just doing jabs and straight punches, the latter would have a definite advantage due to better stamina.

The moral: To save energy, abstain from doing hooks and uppercuts but for training, emphasive them.

This is a matter of distance, timing and technique. Hooks and uppercuts aren't taxing if you throw them at the right time. Look at James Toney on the inside.

[jwinch2]

1. Calisthenics: I haven't done these in ages and was amazed to see how effective they are! Burpees, front/rear lunges, hindu push-ups, side jumps, all these are even more effective than running, in my view. You can run for 30 min and still be winded after 30 seconds of boxing; the calisthenics though are great for sports like boxing where you need to expend sudden bursts of energy.

In addition, they can be done in a very small space. Calisthenics are fine, nothing wrong with them. However to assume that you are getting everything you need from them is a falsehood.

Boxers get winded from 3 minutes of boxing even though the do alot of cardio not because cardio is not a good way to build up endurance but because boxing does not rely on the same energy systems that running long distances do. They get winded not because they need more oxygen, but because they are getting rid of carbon dioxide which is a byproduct of anaerobic metabolism. Boxing relies on repeated high intensity action for smaller amounts of time rather than sustained activity.

This is not new, it is called metabolic specificity and it highlights a signifiant problem with many "coaches and trainers", of which terms I use loosely, as they have no understanding of basic human bioenergetics and thus no idea what they are talking about when it comes time to designe an effective conditioning program for their activity.


2. Weights: I have grown skeptical of weights. The time for a full weight workout is 45min .... a waste of time! Imagine how many burpees you can do in that span of time! The mind boggles! To think you can get everything you need from burpees is ridiculous to the point of boggling my mind. Just because you can do burpees all day does not mean you are getting strong. As you get older, training with resistance exercises such as weight training is far more important then it was when you were younger. Muscle strength and power is far more closely tied to physical function in older adults then muscle endurance or cardiovascular endurance. In addition, persons who score in the bottom 25 percentile of strength and power measures are four times more likely to die than those in the top 25 percent after the age of 50. Balance, quality of life, bone mineral density, risk of injury, and mortality are much more closely tied to strength and power than muscle or cardiovascular endurance.

Sarcopenia is a situation where older adults lose significant amounts of muscle mass. The problem is the the mass they lose is much more likely to occur from the fast twitch pool of fibers rather than the slow twitch fibers. This preferential loss of fast muscle means that you lose a much greater amount of power than you do strength, even though that is significant as well. Power is the single most relevant physiological variable related to physical function. Period. The data is consistant and clear on that subject. Heavy resistance exercise has consistantly been demonstrated to significantly retard this preferential loss of fast muscle.

You don't need to spent less time in the weight room as you get older, you need more.



3. Using the legs and arms is much better for cardio than just arms: I would in fact wager that if one boxer trained as a kickboxer, doing kicks and punches, and the other just trained punches, the former would have much better cardio.

It makes a big difference, at least for me, if I spar using kicks and punches or just punches.

Specificity rules. If you are going to have to perform with your arms and legs then that is the way you should train. If not, then not. Of course it makes a big difference to you if you train that way, when you perform you are using your legs.


I'd like to see two fighters train with these two systems then put them against each in a pure boxing match: my guess is the one who trained as a kickboxer would have the conditioning edge. not even close, the boxer would own that one everytime.




5. Forearm strength: Hand strength can increase the strength of your punches a lot. If you increase your hand strength by practising 'pinch grip' (carrying weight plates), and by opening and closing your hands in a a bucket of sand, your 'explosive grab' jabs will be much more powerful. tell me you are kidding here. Power is force times velocity for starters. A punch is thrown by contracting the muscles of the chest, shoulders, and triceps, and probably rotating the torso depending on how you punch. The forarm flextors have no role except to keep the fingers closed. They are certainly not adding power to your punch in any way. Your grip yes, your punch no.

[CEB]

Do Squats
(10 characters)

[jwinch2]

Do Squats
(10 characters)
Good start, but you had better add some other stuff in there as well! :)

[Jeff Burger]

I'm 40 now and worked alot the last couple of months and skipped my morning jogs. My only workouts were class times and body weight exercises. I just got back to jogging this month and wow can I feel the difference in just 2 months. What used to be my warm up is actually hard.

To much wrong cardio - My fight last September I did way to much aerobic jogging and not enough anaerobic, strength and power training. I also decided to try to drop weight for the fight wich is something I tell my guys not to do and I had never done. I dropped 8lbs the day of the fight and drained me.

I was big into weight lifting in my 20s (mostly a ego thing I'd say) after my first trip to China I got away from a lot of that. At my biggest I was 225lbs with 10-12% body fat (looked good, was not functional), my last fight I weighed in at 147lbs. I'm just now adding more of it to my training, I just feel the need for it as I get older.

As for forearm strength adding to your punch...
The wrist is one of the weakest links in the punch so strengthing it can prevent injuries. If their is any signifigant power improvement from strong forearms its mostly from over coming fear of injury letting you throw it harder.

Not being arrogant but I don't see alot of martial artist that know how to add power to their punching. Most are single gear or maybe double gear. Alot of just arm punching out there.
There are so many gears to get power on your punching- linear, twist (foot, hip, shoulder), up, down.... lets not forget letting him run into it.

After power generation alignment to not lose power and injure yourself is the next priority.
Right weapon for right target.
Put it in a sweet spot, sweeten that spot (know what I mean by "popping the bubble"?)
Add all those little things and you will probably have all the power you need.

Overall make your training mimick the event you want to do.

[Jonathan Randall]

Welcome to Budoseek!

I have all 15 volumes of the Title Boxing series and it is very good. Have you had any actual boxing training prior to this? As with all instructional videos, there are always some little details that get left out.



Are you familiar with Christopher Getz's series? If so, how do the Title Boxing DVD's compare? BTW, yes, I personally have had formal training but I've lost many of the nuances (and all the finesse...) and even some of the basics. Getz's series (I have three of the set) helped me ... to a degree.

Oh, Jwinch2, I really appreciate your reminder about the importance of resistance training as we age. I've been on a lay off for the past 4-6 weeks and you've reminded me of the importance of that. My cardio is coming fine, but your point regarding strength is well taken and hits home! Thank you for your information.

BTW, where would you rate flexibility training (as compared to cardio and strength)?

[Oniw17]

Burpees are like the old military squat-thrust exercise, except it adds a push-up on the down part and a jump coming up. If you do a web search you should be able to find plenty of video demos.
Lol, I always thought that's what squat-thrusts were.

[GodofGamblers]

Calisthenics are fine, nothing wrong with them. However to assume that you are getting everything you need from them is a falsehood.

Boxers get winded from 3 minutes of boxing even though the do alot of cardio not because cardio is not a good way to build up endurance but because boxing does not rely on the same energy systems that running long distances do. They get winded not because they need more oxygen, but because they are getting rid of carbon dioxide which is a byproduct of anaerobic metabolism. Boxing relies on repeated high intensity action for smaller amounts of time rather than sustained activity.

This is not new, it is called metabolic specificity and it highlights a signifiant problem with many "coaches and trainers", of which terms I use loosely, as they have no understanding of basic human bioenergetics and thus no idea what they are talking about when it comes time to designe an effective conditioning program for their activity.
To think you can get everything you need from burpees is ridiculous to the point of boggling my mind. Just because you can do burpees all day does not mean you are getting strong. As you get older, training with resistance exercises such as weight training is far more important then it was when you were younger. Muscle strength and power is far more closely tied to physical function in older adults then muscle endurance or cardiovascular endurance. In addition, persons who score in the bottom 25 percentile of strength and power measures are four times more likely to die than those in the top 25 percent after the age of 50. Balance, quality of life, bone mineral density, risk of injury, and mortality are much more closely tied to strength and power than muscle or cardiovascular endurance.

Sarcopenia is a situation where older adults lose significant amounts of muscle mass. The problem is the the mass they lose is much more likely to occur from the fast twitch pool of fibers rather than the slow twitch fibers. This preferential loss of fast muscle means that you lose a much greater amount of power than you do strength, even though that is significant as well. Power is the single most relevant physiological variable related to physical function. Period. The data is consistant and clear on that subject. Heavy resistance exercise has consistantly been demonstrated to significantly retard this preferential loss of fast muscle.

You don't need to spent less time in the weight room as you get older, you need more.



Specificity rules. If you are going to have to perform with your arms and legs then that is the way you should train. If not, then not. Of course it makes a big difference to you if you train that way, when you perform you are using your legs.
not even close, the boxer would own that one everytime.


tell me you are kidding here. Power is force times velocity for starters. A punch is thrown by contracting the muscles of the chest, shoulders, and triceps, and probably rotating the torso depending on how you punch. The forarm flextors have no role except to keep the fingers closed. They are certainly not adding power to your punch in any way. Your grip yes, your punch no.

It doesn't seem to follow, but trust me , it's true. I can't explain why, but the sudden contraction of the arm upon impact makes a big difference. Look at the one inch punch as an eloquent example of this: it is the secret to using this contraction to generate incredible power even though the distance (and thus velocity) is minimal.

The real proof is to box with someone who has strong forearms. You feel it in the punches right away!