View Full Version : To wash your obi, or not...
Hello,
Lately I've been pondering the question of whether or not to wash my obi (belt). Obviously, I wash the rest of my gi, so don't worry about that.
But before answering this question, think about the history behind this subject:
Back in the "old" days, students would train wearing white belts, and through constant training, and hitting the mat/ground/tatami, their obi's would get dirtier, and dirtier, and dirtier until finally it would turn black.
Keeping this thought in mind, Prof. Kano devised his Kodokan ranking system to go from lighter colors to darker colors with progression in the practice of his art.
So if you think about it, you would almost, in a sense be washing away the history and hard work that you've put into your obi every time you've hit the ground or trained.
Or am I just holding on to a relic of the past?
So now I once again ask the question,
To wash, or not to wash?
PS: I also train in classical Jujitsu (Japanese), so please, feel free to share your opinions!
- Joe
John Bennett
08-08-2002, 23:08
The whole "belt getting dirtier" thing is a myth.
None the less, wash your belt a lot!
It fades out the belt, thus making you look like an experienced black belt! :)
Neil Yamamoto
08-09-2002, 04:11
Do you like to smell?
Don't wash your obi.
Do you not want to offend others in your dojo.
Wash your obi.
Do you care?
Wash your obi and keikogi often
Don't care?
Don't wash your keikogi and obi and see how many people really want to train with you.
Afraid of washing all the knowledge out of your obi?
Excuse me, it's just a piece of cloth. Would you say the same about the underwear you own?
Help me obi wan, the smell makes me choke. ;)
williamson
08-09-2002, 08:07
At very least Fabreeze (sp?) the belt.
Aaron Fields
08-09-2002, 16:44
Hell....I don't wash my dogi or my obi....that and my ne-waza is all the better for it.....Funk-ryu is my secret technique.....Don't believe me ask neil...:D
silverhand
08-10-2002, 06:15
I am a traditionalist...
Never wash you belts, never let them hit the floor unless they are around your waist of course. Never wear it outside the dojang, or dojo as the case may be. Never smoke, eat, or drink with your belt on, take it off and put it around your neck.
And never, never wash a black belt. It will fade with time, and fray..and yes it does show experiance and training time when taken care of properly.
:)
Michael
De_Franza
08-10-2002, 16:10
I was always taught not to wash the obi. I've heard the belt-getting-dirty with time story, but it is indeed a myth, colored belts were introduced by Funikoshi (if I'm not mistaken (and I probably am)) after the manner of Kano (who fouded Judo) (right?) :-)
But I wash my Gi after every practice, but never any of my obi. And no one has ever mentioned a smell.
De_Franza
08-10-2002, 16:11
By "any of my obi" I mean any that I've ever had. Not that I have many currently.
RA Miller
08-13-2002, 04:10
I don't wash my obi because it gets stuck around the spinny thing in the middle of the washer.
And Kano introduced only two belt colors- black for instructor and white for students. Brown was added later to indicate instructor candidates. Then everything got out of hand later....
The Opal Dragon
08-13-2002, 15:13
I wash my belt with my Gi (I have a white belt and white Gi). If I didn't my belt would probably be a nasty yellowish-brown.:dead: I put my belt in one of those nit-zipper-washing machine bags so it doesn't get wrapped around the middle spinning thing.
Robyn:bow: :wave: :bow:
fightgrrl
08-15-2002, 15:43
we were told not to wash obi.
the yellow is the only one that really looks dirty.
but that is stashed away since being replaced.
when my teacher went to japan (actually for Judo) he and other American used Funk-ryu too...
David Craik
08-16-2002, 06:45
I always wash mine. The knowledge is in your head, not in your belt. I wonder what historical basis not washing one's belt has? Since colored belts are a Gendai thing, I can't imagine the 'tradition' is particularly old.
To wash your Obi or not? Pretty good question. I say not, because in Japan many many years ago they started with a white belt, and as they trained there white belt would get black. So to keep with tradition I say not, that is if your in a budo art. In a non budo art, they might not give a hoot.
My friend at my dojo, his wife washed his belt, yes it looks clean, but the colors run. The waist of his gi is green.
My sensei has always said not to wash the obi. He's says they will shrink to the point of not being wearable. Personally, I don't have any reason to wash my belt anyways. I've worked to the point where my entire gi is drenched in sweat with blood specks on it, but nothing has ever even touched my belt.
I heard not washing your obi signified the sweat, time, and blood that you put into your art, that's why people tend to wear they belt until it is totally frayed and comes apart because it carries with it all your training history and committment to learning the art making it all the more sentimental.
Jeff Burger
10-15-2002, 07:37
QUOTE
"It fades out the belt, thus making you look like an experienced black belt! "
I havent washed my belt since I got it 18 years ago.
Its falling apart and Im often asked if Im a green belt cause its so faded.
I thought about getting a new one...but its got to much history and sentimental value.
Jeff
acecchetto
10-26-2002, 10:26
I too was told to never wash my obi. And I do agree that the yellow does show the most dirt... but, it just shows that you train, and you don't mind hitting the mat once and a while!
Lawrence
11-26-2002, 08:57
To wash or not to wash, that is the question. Personally, I too have never washed my obe, it is soft, very faded, frayed and I love it!
The sentiment one attaches to their obe is a bit daft really, but it is there.
One time one of my students decided to hide my belt from me. For two weeks I was without it, I eventually brought a new one, but yet still pined for my old one.
When it was finally returned to me, I was so overjoyed; how stupid. But I think the sentimental, emotional and historical attachment one has towards that bit of cloth you wear is precious, and very important to the individual.
Sorry for dragging up an old thread,
Take care,
Lawrence.
Kimpatsu
01-08-2003, 21:05
I never wash my obi. Obviously, the rest of my dogi are washed regularly (I currently have three), but the belt is special; it's like a talisman with my name and federation written on it. My obi has real kiryoku, and I wouldn't wash that out for the world. But then, I am from outta space... :alien:
fightgrrl
01-11-2003, 10:33
....only a bit off topic, but in the line of BELTS and "the power"
We currently have a few orange belts vying to earn our former Sempai's old green belt....we have nice new ones available, but they have created a mystique around David's old belt has grown to make it more desirable than a new one (oh, yeah, this IS the kids program)...the nice thing is this really is working as more effort fuel, since we have made it clear that it won't go to someone who merely shows up and passes...they must really go beyond new belt effort, its funny that the kids have created their own monster...
for adults it's been the quest to get to use the POWER PANTS...another story altogether.....
Jeff Burger
01-11-2003, 17:29
When I was coming up through the ranks we had THE BROWN BELT.
It has been passed down for along time. Its basically given to the toughest brown belt...kind of a inner cirlcle trophy.
power pants....lol
they make you impervious to leg kicks...try em on and Ill show ya :devil:
Jeff
"The whole "belt getting dirtier" thing is a myth"
Yes, that may be. Both John and Don [Cunningham] have told us again and again that there is no proof that ancient martial artists started out as White Belts and wore them until they became Black through excessive use. Kind of makes you wonder where that legend came from, huh?
"I always wash mine. The knowledge is in your head, not in your belt."
Good point. I too, teach my students that a belt is nothing more than a superficial piece of cloth that is wrapped around your waist. After all, the qualities that make a good martial artist are on the inside.
However, bearing all of this criticism in mind, I still choose not to wash my belt. I also choose to teach my students NOT to wash theirs, either. And, in spite of my better historical knowledge, I still tell them the story of how in ancient times, some styles wore a white belt, and the belts got darker as the Martial Artist continued his education (although now I do add a disclaimer to state that this is not a historical fact).
Of course, all of the history die-hards will jump-up and say how "there is no proof that this happened". To some extent, they'd be right. But again, where did this legend come from? Either it actually did happen (on a somewhat limited basis) or some instructor along the way made it up to make people feel like they were doing something that had been done for hundreds of years. Sure people can say that there is no proof that this legend is true. But to tell you all the truth, I haven't seen anything to prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that it DIDN'T ever happen, either.
The point to this inflated posting, is that even though I'm an educated Martial Artist who knows that there is no proof to support the theory of "The Belts That Changed Colors"...I believe in the symbolism and spirit that is upheld in the telling of this story.
Would washing my belt destroy all of the work that I've put into getting where I am in Martial Arts? No, of course not. But it would be tarnishing the historical and symbollic importance of the belt to some people. And I guess that I'm one of them.
Ultimately, this is going to come down to an art-by-art, school-bye-school, instructor-by-instructor issue. Everyone is going to do it one way or another, and/or for different reasons. Nobody is really right or wrong...just different.
Aaron Ploetz
Jeannette
03-26-2003, 13:21
Here's something you may find interesting. Take it how you want.
When I was training in Japan with Hatsumi sensei and a bunch of students, I noticed some of Hatsumi's personal advanced Japanese students wearing white belt. I thought, Oh how sweet, they are making a point saying that we are always a white belt in heart and always learning........wrong, my teacher in the USA laughed at me and said that they were so black that it eventually turned white! Mind you, these students have been training all their lives and are around 40 years old!
Wash, or not to wash? I don't wash mine, but I don't stink like you men do and usually I sweat on the inside of my gi, so I don't worry about it.
Kimpatsu
04-01-2003, 19:03
Originally posted by Jeannette
I don't wash mine, but I don't stink like you men do and usually I sweat on the inside of my gi, so I don't worry about it.
Dogi, Jeannette, DOGI!
Jeannette
04-01-2003, 20:01
now now Tony, no need to get a bug up your butt......gi gi gi gi gi gi gi gi gi gi gi gi!
what can you expect from an ugly american?
Kimpatsu
04-01-2003, 20:13
Dogi, dogi, DOGI! There is no such word as "gi"; without a preceding syllable, the character would have to be read as "ki", as in "kimono". Don't antagonise me!
BTW, you may be a dumb Yank, but I don't think you're ugly... ;)
Jeannette
04-01-2003, 20:54
gi!
Kimpatsu
04-01-2003, 20:56
You left the "t" off the end...
Does anyone know what to do if you get blood on your obi? I've gotten blood out of my GI...... :laugh: before , but man, what about the obi? :confused:
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 00:12
Dogi, Ben, but then, your name is s*it in Japanese... :D
Lawrence
04-02-2003, 01:19
I'm with Tony on this one!
It is dogi not simply gi.
As with many things to do with the Martial Arts, us westerners get it quite wrong! Gi = bad, Dogi = good.
No quarms about obi though :D
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 01:40
I have no qualms about obi, either, Lawrence, although there are those on Budoseek who'd like me to belt up...
Seriously (but, no!), I think I know where this mistake originated.
If we say judogi and karatedogi, then people parse the two words incorrectly as judo-gi and karatedo-gi respectively, whereas the two words are actually contractions of judo dogi and karatedo dogi (or, simply, karate dogi). Then, omit the karatedo, and you're left with "gi", which is a non-word.
Alright alright Dogi it is!
I bet you tell everyone who you think doesn't know how to speak Japanese that there name means sh!t, or something of the sort, in Japanese Kimpatsu. Wait, to you mean my real name or my username?
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 06:45
Your real name. Ben means "sh!t" in Japanese.
Sorry, but think aboutt he bell in the Great Clock of Westminster...
Jeff Burger
04-02-2003, 06:58
Ben you may to switch to CMA where Ben only means stupid...not great but certainly better than Sh!t.....lol
We have always called it a gi...even our instrucitrs from Japan and when we where in Japan said gi.
Why didnt anyone correct us then?
I even looked in a few martial arts books from out of Japan by Japanese guys and 4 out of 4 say gi.
Jeff
williamson
04-02-2003, 06:58
How about keikogi? I know dogi is correct, but saying it makes me think I'm rounding up cattle.
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 07:49
Originally posted by Jeff Burger
We have always called it a gi...even our instrucitrs from Japan and when we where in Japan said gi.
Why didnt anyone correct us then?
They were probably humouring you. I have never heard anyone say "gi" when they were speaking Japanese, which is the acid test, after all.
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 07:51
Originally posted by williamson
How about keikogi? I know dogi is correct, but saying it makes me think I'm rounding up cattle.
"Keiko" means "training", so "keikogi" is acceptable. I prefer "dogi" personally, though. Why should that word make you think of rounding up cattle? Although you do live in "ohayo"... the Good Morning State. :D
Jeff Burger
04-02-2003, 09:11
QUOTE
"They were probably humouring you"
Boy are they lucky they can all beat me up.
I wonder why more books dont say dogi then?
jeff
Lawrence
04-02-2003, 09:21
There are many books that say dogi and kaikogi, problem is they tend to be factual rather than technical manuels.
Not sure about the four books you read, but it is just one of those picky little things!! Chances are the dates and publishers have something to do with it! :D
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher
Alright I know Benjamin can mean anything in Japanese.
This is still confusing to me because in Miyamoto Musashi's childhood name(a master swordsman of feudal Japan) had a character that was pronounced Ben in his name, form what I've read. It was something like Ben no Suki. I'll try to find the whole name.
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 16:33
Originally posted by Jeff Burger
I wonder why more books dont say dogi then?
Because they're written by Anglophones who don't speak Japanese. As I said, the acid test is that no one says "dogi" when speaking Japanese.
Lawrence
04-02-2003, 17:08
Doh!!!
....the acid test is that no one says "dogi" when speaking Japanese.
Love
Lawrence Fisher
OOOOpppps!!!!
Tony messed up with English grammar!! :D
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 17:10
Originally posted by Lawrence
OOOOpppps!!!!
Tony messed up with English grammar!! :D
Where?
Lawrence
04-02-2003, 17:37
says "dogi" when speaking Japanese.
That NO ONE ....
I am sure dogi is more correct and widly said than gi!!
:D
Maybe I just read you wrong!!
Sorry if thats the case.
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher,
Alright, Miymoto Musashi was named Ben-no-suke when he was a boy. Now, I really don't believe your Japanese lesson Kimpatsu.
If Ben meant sh!t then he wouldn't have been called Ben-no-suke. So, I'll just change my signature back.:anger:
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 20:12
Hey, Lawrence,
What's the problem with "no one"? It's correct English. Check the Titan Publishing style guide for starters.
Now, go take a leek, rather than the piss... :D
Kimpatsu
04-02-2003, 20:17
Originally posted by Kenji
Alright, Miymoto Musashi was named Ben-no-suke when he was a boy. Now, I really don't believe your Japanese lesson Kimpatsu.
If Ben meant sh!t then he wouldn't have been called Ben-no-suke. So, I'll just change my signature back.:anger:
Ever heard of homonyms? And let's not forget that language changes over time; in fact, the disparity between medieval and modern Japanese is greater than the disparity between medieval and modern English. So there.
Your name is still sh!t to me, Ben. :D
O.K., and what does Kimpatsu mean in English?:confused:
Hmm..., hold on a minute, I'll look it up. Lets see here......Oh here it is: EGOTISTICAL BALD GUY.
Relax lol :laugh:, just kidding!
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 00:12
It means "blond hair".
Ken ji'ya no see that?
You look like you have brown hair in you picture.:D
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 08:58
Oh no, it's definitely blond, just several shades sub-platinum. You can't trust appearances. After all, you look stupid... :D
Sub-Platnium? Bling On!:D
Quote: After all, you look stupid... :D
Oh yeah! Well, I have more hair than you do!:p
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 16:58
Originally posted by Kenji
Oh yeah! Well, I have more hair than you do!:p
Not difficult, because I shave my head. It gives my massive brain room to grow. :cool:
Jeannette
04-03-2003, 17:43
True. Japanese are most likely humored by "blue eyes"! This I can respect! And most likely the books where translated incorrectly by "blue eyes". (I also have some books that say gi.) Most likely, the translations were englishized Japanese words. I'm curious if in Japan there is any Japanizing on words? I've seen a movie out from Japan called Ringo and others like this. Perhaps the word "ring" originally was not in their language, then eventually evolved into a word?
Reguarding my earlier post...Dogi it is, I was just antagonizing Tony!!! (playing)
Respectfully,
Jeannette
04-03-2003, 17:56
Oh, damn, missed this entire page 3! Here's my pay back opportunity.......
Ok Tony, let's see if you are REALLY blonde!!! There's one way to find out, show us????
(notice I have my glasses on)
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 19:14
I'll show you mine if you show me yours, Jeannette. ;)
BTW, I have blue eyes as well. Aoi me ni kimpatsu desu... Josei ni tottewa, totemo miryoku-teki ja nai no?
(No.) :cry:
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 19:21
Originally posted by Jeannette
True. Japanese are most likely humored by "blue eyes"! This I can respect! And most likely the books where translated incorrectly by "blue eyes". (I also have some books that say gi.) Most likely, the translations were englishized Japanese words. I'm curious if in Japan there is any Japanizing on words? I've seen a movie out from Japan called Ringo and others like this. Perhaps the word "ring" originally was not in their language, then eventually evolved into a word?
Whilst modern Japanese is full of loan words, which are terms borrowed from Western languages (not just English), there is a perfectly good Japanese intransitive verb "to ring": Naru. However, words like "ring-o" are often used for effect, to sound modern, trendy and "international". People have rung bells in Japan since long before the invention of the telephone.
Originally posted by Jeannette
Reguarding my earlier post...Dogi it is, I was just antagonizing Tony!!! (playing)
Respectfully,
Ne m'enerve pas, Jeannette.
I think we should use Latin as the Budoseek lingua franca. After all, quidquid Latine dictum sit altur videtum. (Anything said in Latin sounds profound.) :D
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 19:22
Originally posted by Jeannette
(notice I have my glasses on)
I've always had a thing about women in glasses, Jeannette. ;)
Vous etes un kimpatsu drole d'homme.
How about french?:D
Wie vergleicht Kempo zu Shotokan Karate?
Or how about German? :D
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 20:09
Pas de problème. Si tu veux (ici a Budoseek, nous sommes tous amis, donc il vaudrait mieux te tutoyer, s'il te plaît), nous pouvons discuter entre nous en français. Ou japonais. Ou espagnole. Ou n'importe quelque chose d'autre, pourvu que tout le monde peut avoir un gros rigolade. D'accord?
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 20:11
Originally posted by Kenji
Wie vergleicht Kempo zu Shotokan Karate?
Or how about German? :D
No. I can't speak German (shock, horror!), but there's a good explanation.
The week I started high school, the German master dropped dead of a heart attack, so there were no classes for a year until they found a replacement, by which time, beginners could never have made up the lost classes. Personally, I think he heard that I was coming, and decided that death was the better option... :p
rigeback
04-03-2003, 20:46
much work has gone into the training and receiving your obi.
It has been said not to wash your obi"you wash out all of your training." To which I agree. It took to long to achive my rank, worked to hard, I cannot wash out all of my hard work.
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 20:50
Moderator mode ON:
Rigeback, please sign all your posts with your FULL NAME. "Maleko" doesn't cut it. Thank you.
Moderator mode OFF.
Now, what's an "ori"? :D
Je n'ai pas des objections adresser mes amis en français sur BudoSeek.
L'Allemand sur ma poste précédente signifie:
Fait comment Kempo et Shotokan Karate comparer?
Savez-vous?
C'est mauvais que votre enseignant Allemand est mort. Comment beaucoup de langues que vous avez étudiée?
Je n'ai jamais entendu parler d'un ori. :confused:
tkdcanada
04-03-2003, 22:33
Actually, it's "je n'ai pas D'OBJECTIONS A ADRESSER....."
and
"C'EST TRISTE que....."
and
"COMBIEN DE LANGUES AVEZ-VOUS...."
....since we seem to be on language correction. ;)
Tony's not the only one with a spot for grammar errors. :D
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 22:57
Merde! Il y a un Quebecois ici...
(There goes the neighbourhood. ;) )
For Ben's edification: there's no similarity whatsoever between Shorinji Kempo and Shotokan Karate, except for the accident of our initials.
tkdcanada
04-03-2003, 23:12
Quebecois! Jamais!!..............Ontario. :cool: Ne m'insulte pas de meme! ;)
Kimpatsu
04-03-2003, 23:15
My apologies. But with a name like yours...
tkdcanada
04-03-2003, 23:27
I suppose I can understand that. ;) It's something I'm very used to - many people have problem with my name (both of them)! I actually live about 30 minutes away from Quebec and was blessed enough to have grown up with equal exposure to French and English making me perfectly bilingual - which I resented as a child but am very glad for now (many more job opportunities). However, the "in your face" attitude of a lot of Quebecers (by no means all) about their language and heritage etc... tends to give them a bad image and we have a lot of that here (being so close), therefore it's not something I like to be associated with. I'm happy I know the language but that's the extent of it!
Since this thread has expanded to this direction I would like to ask, what languages you folk speak&understand? Kimpatsu seems to be local linguistic genius, how about others?
I don't have remarkablel language skills. My native language is Finnish, and something I know about English, obviously. I should be able to manage with Swedish, but... it isn't strong one for me. Some phrases and quotes from Latin, Turkish and Hungarian. Dojo/dojang terminology of Japanese and Korean, but certainly not professional level. Ok. Your turn.
With respect,
Riku Ylönen
tkdcanada
04-03-2003, 23:35
Just French and English for me. However I have a degree in linguistics and would love to learn other languages!
Kimpatsu
04-04-2003, 01:17
Naw, jes' stik to Inglish fonetikly, as she is spoke. :D
Jeff Burger
04-04-2003, 06:59
#1 English
Decent But not super fluent Mandarin.
Less than ok Contonese.
My family spoke some German in the house but I never picked it up....it was like their secret language.
I can understand 90% or more of what they are saying but i have to think to speak it.
A some Thai, Japanese, Tagalog and Spanish basics.
And as you can tell Im very concerned about brammar and typos
;)
Jeff
Lawrence
04-04-2003, 11:04
Hi there,
I am strictly English.
Nothing more. The Japanese I know is only really common curtacy and mannors. Oh, and martial Arts related stuff of course!
Never managed to get my head into other languages, however, I am trying really hard to learn Welsh at the moment, okay, a dead language that is slowly being given the breath of life, but still got a long way to go!
At school I studied French, but I was Merde!
So ended up failing! :(
All this multi lingual stuff is complete jibberish to me :D I would like (for purly selfish reasons!) Budoseek! to remain in English language!
Anyway, take care,
Lawrence.
P.S. Kimpatsu, do you understand much in the way of Kanji? I have been given as a present, some Kanji, apparently it relates to one of my sayings, problem is I don't know what it says, so concequently would like to know (my mate won't tell me!! Says I should find out for myself!! GIT!!!!). Just wondering if you could translate it for me? Or anyone else!
Jeannette
04-04-2003, 15:12
Spanish is my native language. German, my second, I went to German schools and my father is German. However, his spanish was never all that great and he couldn't stand hearing my mother try to speak German, so they compromised to speak english in the house because eventually they would send my sister and I to University in the USA. Now, I sometimes blend the three depending on my mood! (my sister also does the same! It is our own secret language, although in Europe everyone understand us.) I'm most certain our accents are terrible to hear.
Hey Michleine (truce) what are your thoughts on Tolkien? I wonder if you, as a languistics major, appreciate his made up languages and stories since he was a professor of language in Oxford?
Kimpatsu
04-04-2003, 18:00
Originally posted by Lawrence
P.S. Kimpatsu, do you understand much in the way of Kanji?
Of course. About 3,500 characters. I'm not illiterate, you know.
Lawrence
04-05-2003, 03:27
Hi there,
Kimpatsu, Never consider you illiterate!!! That there be my job! :D
Fancy doing a bit of translation for me then?
I am genuinly interested to know what the hell it says!!
Cheers,
Lawrence Fisher.
Kimpatsu
04-05-2003, 05:49
How big is this thing?
Lawrence
04-05-2003, 12:00
4 characters.
Why, how much is it going to cost? ;)
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher
Kimpatsu
04-05-2003, 19:04
If it's only four characters, just show me here. You can hand over your first-born later. :D
Lawrence
04-05-2003, 19:35
Bit late to hand over FIRST BORN as \i have already done that! :D
Maybe second....
Okay, lets see....
Sorry about the size, couldn't be A$%£ed to resize.
Thanks in advance :)
Lawrence Fisher.
P.s. maybe we could find a better exchange than life!! Second or third born! :D
Kimpatsu
04-05-2003, 19:39
Piece of cake, Lawrence. It reads "Inga Oho", which means, "reap what you sow", or "what goes around comes around".
In Japanese and Chinese, pithy sayings such as this one are often four characters long, and are called "Yon-moji jukugo". As you can see, this fits the paradigm.
Just to break it down further, "Inga", the first two characters, mean "cause and effect", the third, "O" means "requite", and the fourth, "ho" means "to pay back". So, "every cause has a payback effect".
HTH.
Lawrence
04-05-2003, 19:59
CHEERS!!!!
Your a bit of a bright spark arent you :D
And you explain it very clearly: Do you teach!!???
I guess the closest thing I say that is a bit like that (not saying I don't agree with the actual sentiments!) is 'its all a F&^%ing circle!!
Maybe thats what he was getting at :D
Thanks ever so much (again!)
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher.
tkdcanada
04-06-2003, 00:46
Jeanette,
Honestly, I know nothing about Tolkien. My studies focused on things like neurolinguistics, second language acquisition, phonetics, phonology, morphology, etc.... and I never encountered him in my studies or if I did it was very brief and I can't remember. But, I have no problem with made up languages as languages are very much like other living things - they change and evolve and sometimes become something new and very different but also very functional in the society that they are used.
Michleine
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 08:18
Originally posted by Lawrence
And you explain it very clearly: Do you teach!!???
No, I'm not good enough, and probably never will be. The clock is ticking...
Got any more quotes for me to show off?
Best,
Lawrence
04-06-2003, 16:07
Afraid not. :(
Well, not from me anyway!! I am sure there are loads of people who would love to take advantage of your talents.
Thanks again!
Take care,
Lawrence Fisher.
Jeff Burger
04-06-2003, 17:31
Wow...5 pages over should I wash my belt.
Budoseekers are maniancs...lol
So should I use fabric softener??? What detergent?
Gentle cylcle or regular...or does it matter if you do hard are soft style.
Jeff
All this posting is not so much because the people here can talk a lot about washing obis. The five pages is more the result of everyones ability to branch off onto different subjects that have nothing to do with the first post.
I love it, lets try for six pages!:D
Kimpatsu,
In your opinion, is using kanji more difficult than writing romanized words? Personally, from what little kanji I have attempted painting, kanji seem to require more artistic skill.
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 18:01
Are you suggesting we're all drips, Jeff? :D
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 18:09
Originally posted by Kenji
I love it, lets try for six pages!:D
Easy-peasy.
Originally posted by Kenji
In your opinion, is using kanji more difficult than writing romanized words? Personally, from what little kanji I have attempted painting, kanji seem to require more artistic skill.
No, it just takes getting used to. I still have my first attempts at writing Japanese, and it looks like the large, uneven, sprawling hand of a six-year-old. It's much better now. The only reason you're so comfortable writing Roman characters is familiarity. Learn and practice enough Kanji, and you'll become equally comfortable with Japanese.
That makes sense. No matter what form of communication, the more you're around it and practice it the better and more fluent you become in its usage.
You seem to be a large wealth of knowledge kimpatsu.
By the way, in the Japanese language is the adjective put before or after the noun?
Hope this makes six!:D
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 19:08
Originally posted by Kenji
That makes sense. No matter what form of communication, the more you're around it and practice it the better and more fluent you become in its usage.
Maybe we should all try speaking in binary.
You know, there are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. :D
Originally posted by Kenji
You seem to be a large wealth of knowledge kimpatsu.
Be or have? "Knowledge is power". (Motto of London University.)
Originally posted by Kenji
By the way, in the Japanese language is the adjective put before or after the noun?
Japanese doesn't have any adjectives. It has descriptive verbs (they conjugate). However, they do indeed precede the noun they modify.
Example:
Omoshiroi hon (An interesting book)
Kono hon wa omoshiroi (This book is interesting)
Kono hon wa omoshirokatta (This book was interesting: "Omoshiroi" does not mean interesting, it means "to be interesting". It is a descriptive verb.)
Note also that although the verb "to be" (desu/de aru) can be added to the end of the sentence, viz: "Kono hon wa omoshiroi desu", it does not mean "This book is is interesting"; rather, the addition of the formal verb "to be" simply makes the sentence more polite.
Hope the above makes sense.
Originally posted by Kenji
Hope this makes six!:D
Yes, fingers crossed!
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 19:09
Drat! :anger:
Well I guess I fall into the "those that are ignorant of binary" category. Lets talk about binary. First off what is it?
Come'on lucky number six......:(
What does it take to get a sixth page around here!:cry:
I've got it! A page contains a maximium of 20 posts.
Only one more left!:laugh:
This is the last post for this page!:toast:
I'll give you the honors Kimpatsu.:D
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 20:23
Originally posted by Kenji
Well I guess I fall into the "those that are ignorant of binary" category. Lets talk about binary. First off what is it?
Binary is basically just another number base. Because we have 10 fingers, we traditionally work in base 10 (decimal), using the numbers 0 to 9. There are exceptions, however: the old British currency prior to decimilisation was run in base 12, and to this day, there are 60 seconds to a minute and 60 minutes to an hour, courtesy of the ancient Babylonians. (As you can see, 60 is also divisible by 12, making the old British currency a subset of the Babylonian numerical system.)
Base 2, or binary, is the number base used in computing. This is because it is easier to design a circuit that has only two states--ON or OFF-- rather than a circuit that is 1/10th on, 2/10ths on, 3/10ths on, etc... Thus, base 10 (decimal) works like this: When we get to 9, we put a 0 in the units column, and put a 1 in the 10s column to get 10. We then continue counting to 99, and then we put a 0 in the units column, a 0 in the 10s column, and a 1 in the 100s column to get 100. In other words, each column (working from the right) is 10 times the preceding column.
In binary, however, the columns run thus (from the right): Units, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128... (I.e., each column is double, or times 2, the preceding one.) So, if we want to write the decimal number "5" in binary, for example, we put a 1 (representing one unit) in the units column, nothing (0) in the 2s column, and a 1 in the 4s column. This gives us 1 x 4 + 0 x 2 + 1 x 1=5 (decimal).
Computers perform all their mathematical calculations using binary, but they do it so blindingly fast, you don't notice what's going on behind the scenes.
Here is a short explanation (http://cnx.rice.edu/content/m0521/latest/) I found on the web, because the format of Budoseek doesn't really allow me to maniupulate figures in an easy-to-understand format. (That's it! When in doubt, blame Rob Carver! :D )
I hope that helps somewhat, but if you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.
BTW, did you ever see the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode in which the Enterprise encountered a race called the Binars? The episode was one collossal in-joke: the Binars all had names that are really Microsoft codes such as Non-Operation or Illegal Error. (Well, I thought it was funny, but I'm an anorak! ;) )
Best,
Kimpatsu
04-06-2003, 20:25
Yay! Six pages at last! Shall we try for 111? :D
Why the hell not!;)
Now I remember binary. All the zeros and ones. Although I have to blame Rodney Carver, for not teaching me well about this subject. Or, was I just not paying attention to him and staring at the girl with the nice ass?
How about we talk of martial arts frauds and the Mcdojos they come from? That should be about, oh say 20 extra pages right there.
I always find it funny when a fake black belt gets the smackdown from a street punk.
What are your thoughts?
Have you ever seen those "Ultra Super Dynamic High Kicking" videos. Those are so fake they should be illegal.
Jeannette
04-07-2003, 16:07
you guys keep on chatting a way, us gals will just drift off into the living room and continue our girl talk...(funny, how that always seems to happen at parties, eh?)
Michleine,
No, you probably didn't hear of Tolkien in your studies. Sorry, I didn't explain well. He is known for being a creative writer! (There's so many schools of language, I find fascinating.) Tolkien is the author of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. In addition to writing stories, he taught language (I'm not sure exactly which school of language) at Oxford University. One of the interesting thing about his books, is that it reads very deep like a history book. (all made up of course) I guess it was a life time project of his. Anyway, if you ever get the time and get the urge to pick the book up, you may want to check out all the spoken and written languages he made up. My guess, was it was about four or five languages, possibly more. This is why, when reading his books The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings, it reads with much depth. The Hobbit, written for his children, The Lord of the Rings written more for adults. If you are ever feeling inspired and creative, I thought you would appreciate it, since, you are a languistics major. Not too many people realize how ingenious Tolkien was.
Yeah, us guys just keep chatting away until we see a hottie walk by. Then we cut the chat and switch to "get the girl mode." :D
Kimpatsu
04-07-2003, 18:43
You can find details of Tolkien linguistics (http://www.elvish.org/resources.html) here if you're interested.
Kimpatsu
04-07-2003, 18:45
Originally posted by Jeannette
you guys keep on chatting a way, us gals will just drift off into the living room and continue our girl talk...(funny, how that always seems to happen at parties, eh?)
Numbers are not gender-specific, Jeannette. But I always end up talking to myself at parties.
tkdcanada
04-07-2003, 20:39
Jeannette,
Yes, I will look into that it sounds fascinating. Thank you.
Thank you also Tony, I will check that out too.
Jeannette
04-08-2003, 12:30
pretty good website, Tony. ( Honestly, thought it might be a joke from you. )
Thanks!
Try this website: http://www.liquidgeneration.com
Sabotage Rules!
I've never washed my obi, and I've never called it an obi before. I've always felt that the belt was a statement of training. either for personal or dojo implications. the colors of the belt are to tell everyone your rank, so that they will know what they can and can't do with you at this time. and on the other note. if a sensei looks at a belt that is white and the student has been there for a long time, he can either deduce that the student has hardly broken a sweat, or that they wash their belt a lot. kind of confusing. but if the belt shows the direct signs of wear and tear then it could be implied that the student comes in a tries hard. but then again you have the counter argument that the student could go home and throw their belt in the dirt. but giving them the benefit of being an honest person, it shows how hard the student has trained. at least that's the way I look at it.
namaste
John J Hodges
05-25-2004, 16:36
For every belt I've had, I've washed it once, before wearing it. Never again. And I just wash it in shower. Not in a machine.
It will fade from sunlight just as much as wear and tear. Most black belts these days are not made of cotton. In a way I feel cheated of a worn out belt when I'm 50. But, that's 25 years from now, and who knows what shape it will be in.
Belt etiquette is an interesting subject. You should never drop your belt on the floor. And most importantly, do not tie, untie, or adjust it while facing the dojo floor or anybody else. Many other formalities. Not sure if anyone else has the same or similar formalities. Would be interested to know though.
tkdcanada
05-26-2004, 17:23
Yes, we have the same formalities in our TKD school. Belts must be put on before entering the training area and adjusting or fixing uniform or belt in anyway should be done facing away from the instructor or anyone of a higher rank.
I would like to echo the very same thing Neil Y. posted on washing of the belt, I think it is best to go by the rule of nose:
'DO IT STINK? WASH IT or GET ANNUDDER ONE!!!
Washing the "standard" cotton belt is not a problem, I don't know where this stuff comes from other than the dirty dojo/color myth (I'll get to that next). It's when you have expensive kaku obi and fancy EXPENSIVE belts that washing becomes a major problem; as in chucking your $250 silk obi in the wash with a scoop of "all-tempa-cheer" only to find silk mush in the drain pipe afterwards. Eww. In the case of the high price belt, if the thing begins to stink: chuck it and get a new one or take it to the dry cleaner you stinky little monkey.
Cheeta say "Stinky is not a good thing. Stinky bad." to Tarzan.
I do believe that the colored belt ranking sytem originated in France by a Judoka named Mikonosuke Kawaishi who felt that people needed visual hints to rank- and it caught on. This was of course after the coming of the "traditional" Uwagi and Zupon (collectively called a keikogi or a Dogi), which was essentially "invented" by Mister Kano. Before that these guys would put on heavy jackets and train in their underwear, more than likely a "fundoshi" or the sumo style giant G-string. That is a far cry from what was worn in "Ye Olde Dayes" which was probably a kimono that they didn't care much for.
Maybe.....
Colored grading did originate in Europe.
As seen in the recent movie "Last Samurai",
Japan was looking towards the west for
modernization. When Judo became popular,
it was natural for this to occur.
My German mother-in-law remembers wearing
a different color band on her hat every year
in pre war Germany.
I never have washed a belt but I also hang it up
to dry after every use. The KeikoGi gets washed
regularly.
Another source for the unwashed myth can be found
in Sumo. The mawashi worn by these great giants
are never washed because washing tends to soften them.
They are air dried and spot treated but never washed.
When they become too soft, they are thrown away.
If you ever saw the movie "Big Fish", you might
understand that sometimes a romantic story
is favored over the ugly truth.
Peace.
I was told to wash it once when you first got it to soften it up.
Jussi Häkkinen
06-13-2004, 01:13
I wash my belt when it becomes dirty. It's a piece of clothing - I wash my other clothes when they're dirty, so why not my obi. If the belt frays too much (i.e. begins to look untidy), I get a new one - just like I get a new do-gi if the old one frays too much. I don't mind tossing the belt to the corner nor letting it touch the ground - it still is just something I wear every now and then. There's no sentimental value involved.
I'm a heavy traditionalist on this issue. ;)
Obi? Dont wash it as it doesnt really get dirty, and brown is the best color for that :D
Washed it a good 15 times when i got it to break it in, stop the color from getting on my dogi and make it soft so i can roll on it without problem.
Becky_Sheetz
06-14-2004, 12:30
Well, if my feet get dirty from training on the floor and my gi gets dirty from landing on the floor, I think the belt is going to get dirty from falling and being dragged across the mat via compliance techniques. Having said that, I've had my current belt for about three years now. You guys have me wondering: hey maybe it does stink and I just don't notice it! (Just like some people stink in the dojo and they don't seem to notice it.) I don't suppose the embroidery will be damaged by washing in delicate cycle, will it? I think I'd try the shower method first though, if/when it does become stinky. I'm pretty sure it will fade as when my gi gets exceptionally sweaty, I notice that it picks up some of the color from the belt. I just don't want my belt to get worn in any manner that's not in training. That seems too disengenuous.
A guy once told me that he did not wash his belts (we do judo & brazilian jiu jitsu so we get very dirty over time) because all the wear and tear represented knowledge and we did not wish to wash that out.
He died soon thereafter, before I could argue with him about it, and we've kept our belts unwashed in our club since then, partially because we like his idea and partially to remember him.
But for pete's sake, do wash the gi! ;o)
Let me get this straight....you guys wear stinky, smelly belts? (note to self....FABREEZE).
-R
Er, sorry but it's dogi and not gi.
Er, sorry but it's dogi and not gi.
I call and raise you keikogi. That or "uwagi to zupon". That works too.
Lee82mark4
06-18-2004, 06:40
I'll see your keikogi and raise you shitagi. Gotta were pants, you know.
Mark
Becky_Sheetz
06-18-2004, 08:52
I have had tank tops get tangled up and streched out around the rotating center of washing machines and I dont want to have my belt beat up in the wash.
Your reasons for not washing it make sense to me, Chris. I'd just add that if you take it to a laundromat, you can use a machine that doesnt' have the rotating center thingamajig. Rotating centers also tear up washable sparring gear.
Oh, and just because I'm an ugly American, gi gi gi gi gi.
The Opal Dragon
06-18-2004, 09:38
I have had tank tops get tangled up and streched out around the rotating center of washing machines and I dont want to have my belt beat up in the wash.
I do wash my gi.
Chris Mclean
Just a suggestion to not just to you but to everyone. :bow: There are those laundry net bags for the washing machine that you can buy. I put my good Sunday dresses in a bag like that so it won't get hurt by the machine. I don't wash my MA belt often at all but when I do, it goes in the bag so it won't get tangled up and rubbed as much.
Robyn :bow:
Just a suggestion to not just to you but to everyone. :bow: There are those laundry net bags for the washing machine that you can buy. I put my good Sunday dresses in a bag like that so it won't get hurt by the machine. I don't wash my MA belt often at all but when I do, it goes in the bag so it won't get tangled up and rubbed as much.
Robyn :bow:
Robyn,
That is perhaps the best tip I have read on the subject. Brilliant idea!!
Becky_Sheetz
06-18-2004, 09:58
I guess when I'm thinking about washing belts, I'm mostly thinking of washing black belts, which you'll have for years and years. I'm not suring washing a belt you'll wear for 6-9 months is all that necessary, assuming you only wear it in the dojo. I mean, I'm pretty neat (ok, obsessive compulsive about cleanliness) and I've never washed a belt, even those that I've worn for a few years. I never would have considered it until someone on here mentioned the possibility that they could get ripe. That's the only instance I can see for washing a belt.
Short of washing it, I'd recommend,:
Don't let it drag on the floor when you're putting it on or taking it off. Put it promptly in your training bag. If you don't have a training bag, get one.
Don't leave it out and unattended where anything can happen to it.
Don't close it up in a sweaty bag after training where it sits and festers for 48 hours till your next class.
Wash your gi regulary so you aren't getting weeks' old funk on your belt.
I think common sense will go a long way here in keeping the belt in good condition until your next promotion, if applicable.
I'm hoping I never have to wash mine. ;)
The Opal Dragon
06-18-2004, 10:27
Robyn,
That is perhaps the best tip I have read on the subject. Brilliant idea!!
Thank you http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/travesmilies/haushalt/smilie_waschmaschine1.gif http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/natur/nature-smiley-009.gif
Robyn :bow:
I've only washed my belt once and that was because it was in a nasty storage shed for 7 years! Other than that I don't wash it.
Glad you started practice again. HAHAHHAHAHA!!!
I am Kidding, yeah I have had one mildew "Not Cool" that would be a good reason to wash my belt. I just bought a new one, though.
Yes I like my smelly belt. Dont you ever sniff your stinky socks.
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris McLean
I'm ordering a new belt today, since I'm wearing a 1 or a 2 and I need a 3!!! It's so hard to get on, but I can't train without one! lol
Alex Fowler
06-18-2004, 16:51
One time I washed my belt and then next time I went to train I realized I'd forgotten everything I'd learned. I had to start all over again as a day 1 white belt, luckily I was only a yellow at the time so it wasn't too bad but it still sucked. Since then I don't wash my belt anymore.
:D :rolleyes:
A belt doesn't stink because it's dirty. It's the bacteria that
stinks. When you put bacteria in a warm wet environment
it multiplies and begins to smell.
If you air dry your belt before putting it away it will never smell.
The sun is also a great disinfectant. Lay it in the sun when wet.
Yes, it will get dirty if you roll around on it alot but dirt don't smell.
If it stinks, then by all means wash it!
If you want to continue the no wash tradition, then
follow my instructions and you may never have to wash it.
Peace.
I guess everyone has different opinion of what "clean" and "dirty" is. Dirty to me is equal to filthy, but not necissarily soiled, which can aslo mean filthy, but not necissarily dirty- but at times can mean filthy and dirty and unsanitary.
:P
A belt doesn't stink because it's dirty. It's the bacteria that
stinks. When you put bacteria in a warm wet environment
it multiplies and begins to smell.
If you air dry your belt before putting it away it will never smell.
The sun is also a great disinfectant. Lay it in the sun when wet.
Yes, it will get dirty if you roll around on it alot but dirt don't smell.
If it stinks, then by all means wash it!
If you want to continue the no wash tradition, then
follow my instructions and you may never have to wash it.
Peace.
Why not just Febreeze it if it smells bad?
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