Kung Fu Traning Tools

[Digi]

This question is for all Kung Fu practitioners on this board:

1. What tools do you use to train in your preferred style?

2. What are the benefits of that tools? Possible drawbacks?

There are many styles of Kung fu, but I personally feel that a trend exists in all of the various tools used in all systems. If each each member participates in this project, maybe we could discover some sort of universal kung fu setup.

I'll start off::bow:

1.The Traditional Mok Yan Joong (Wooden Dummy), Rice Bag

2. Pros - The wooden dummy helps to condition forearms, practice techniques, and help the practitioner understand conceptually about close range combat. The rice bag is excellent for conditioning knuckles

Cons - Even though the device condition forearms, it does nothing for the hands. It also lacks the ability to condition the shins. The rice bag does not do too much for strengthening the arm as a whole.

Does anyone want to add on to this list?

[Jeff Burger]

I think the biggest con with the Mook Jong is they are exspensive.

Why can't you condition your shin on it?
I had the option to attach a leg on mine. From time to time we would take out the good leg and put in something disposable to break (tree branch...).


Besides hittng the rice / sand bag play catch with it for hand strength.

Kung Fu people use ANYTHING to train with. Bricks and tennis balls for hand strengrh, dips and push ups between chairs, brooms for forearm. rocks as shot puts and medicine balls, log as a throwing dummy ..... One of my favorite exercises was what we called "end overs". Take a good sized log pick it up at one end and push to upright position and drop it. I really felt those everywhere.
The list is as long as your imagination.

My favorite is a heavy bag. I put a car tire inner tube over it to have the uppercut angle, something to hold for clinch and something with give for eye jabs.

BTW I had also put the Mook Joong on a wheeled platform. I got the idea from a heavy bag I had on a I beam trolley. Its works pretty good if you have someone give it some resistance.
I was trying to overcome that trappers seem to be stuck, immobile.

I like to make alot of my own stuff (I'm cheap and some prices are outrageous)
Example... Ever seen a boxer's wheel? Its one of those wheels with a handle through it for working abs. I was at a sports training camp and saw a foot version of the wheel (larger wheel with bike toe clips). I loved it, the way it hits your abs and hip flexors they should call it the kicker boxers wheel. When I priced one it was almost $200, I ended up making one for under $25.


Pros I look for in any tool in or out of martial arts

#1 What are the benefits for me.

#2 Price (I put this 2nd because sometimes quality is worth the price)

[Dale Dugas]

I practice Bagua and use a collection of pvc pipes that are on wood stands arranged in patterns to learn better footwork and deal with multiple attackers. They are inexpensive and will hold up. I also have a pvc pipe that is full of sand that I suspend from the rafters and swing it to hit as well as hit my body and learn to flow with the power that is coming at me.

All is all I am in the same school of thought as Jeff. Do not spend big money but make your own as its more rewarding on many levels. Besides I would hate to break an expensive dummies arms and than have to pay more money to fix em...

[jutsow]

For hand training, I wrapped an old fleece dog bed around a piece of 3/4" plywood.
PRO'S:Its cheap and works good.
CON'S: Sometimes I knock the fleece loose, dogs still mad.

For Forms I use 5lb wrist weights
PRO'S: inexpensive and has increased my hand speed
CON'S: Joint injury if you are to aggressive

For staff training I use a cut off broom stick since I have low ceilings.

PRO'S: cheap
CON'S: can develop bad habits due to short length

My favorite is my heavy bag

PRO'S: Great for kicking
CON'S: Cost me about 75 bucks.

[Digi]

OMG.. Jeff? Weren't you in thailand for a little bit? I haven't been on this board until recently. I competed in two amateur mma matches, and won so far. I might be doing one during the summer, but it depends on school workload.

The reason why I didn't mention expensive is because I built the mook jong also. During the construction of my model, my biggest issue was designing it so that I can box, but also work on my trapping techniques. So my final product is a traditional three arm dummy covered with a thick enough padding that allows me to work on trapping, punching, and some kicks. I'm really undecided on whether to keep the leg attachment or not. I attach the leg whenever I choose to work on techniques. I then remove it, and kick the lower padded portion of the dummy to condition my shins. I own a boxer's wheel for my overall body and grips for my hands.The pvc pipes for teaching balance sounds very cool. I'd love to see a photo. Does anyone use iron rings? More Info Please! This is good stuff! :up:

[Digi]

When I used to do practice forms. I didn't use 5lb weights, but elastic straps for my resistance. It really helped as well to increase my speed, without the possible chance of joint injury. Try it out, and let me know how it worked for you.

It's seems like the boxing bag is common among various practitioners. Keep the ideas coming. This is good. Does anyone practice shuai chiao (Chinese Wrestling)?



For Forms I use 5lb wrist weights
PRO'S: inexpensive and has increased my hand speed
CON'S: Joint injury if you are to aggressive

[Jeff Burger]

Yeah I was in Thailand last year from Jan-May. I'm thinking about going back and giving teaching English a try.

I have seen alot of different homemade Mook Jong be creative.
I have seen a matress rolled up with poles pushes through it (heavy bag with arms).

One guy took some short table legs (the kind that screw in) and screwed them through a belt. Grinded off the extra on the back and belted the legs (now arms) to a heavy bag.

Sometimes boredom is the mother of invention.:laugh:

Congrats on the MMA matches. I have grappled and kick boxed but never mixed.

[Digi]

I kinda wanted to bump this thread to get more input on the devices used to train in various kung fu styles.

[Jeff Burger]

There are elastics :wink2: (Digi mentioned on another thread).

Another fun tool I use is a 30lbs soft shot scuba belt.
I like the belt ALOT better than a weighted vest. The vest is not at your center of gravity and it crushes down on you (literally, look at Thai women who wear rings around their neck to make it long. Its actullay crushing thier ribs down to get that look).

Punching the bag with the belt on is a great way to find more power. Center mass is exxagerated so getting your legs and hips into the punch is more pronounced.

The biggest advantage to all the "gizmos" is it keeps your workouts from getting boring.

[Digi]

I forgot to thank you for you input on elastics. Attaching a band both push and pulling helps to throw a punch and bring it back to a "en guard" stance faster. I have to purchase a soft shot scuba belt next week, and test it out. Thanks jeff.

I'm going to spend the next week researching some of the tradition kung fu training tools, and list them for everyone.


There are elastics :wink2: (Digi mentioned on another thread).

Another fun tool I use is a 30lbs soft shot scuba belt.
I like the belt ALOT better than a weighted vest. The vest is not at your center of gravity and it crushes down on you (literally, look at Thai women who wear rings around their neck to make it long. Its actullay crushing thier ribs down to get that look).

Punching the bag with the belt on is a great way to find more power. Center mass is exxagerated so getting your legs and hips into the punch is more pronounced.

The biggest advantage to all the "gizmos" is it keeps your workouts from getting boring.

[Jeff Burger]

Forgot to mention, you can use the elastics for throws too.


For the scuba belt make sure you get shot / pellet weights. The solid ones will hurt you.

[Digi]

Okay. I usually use the heavy bag for throws. I'm very careful to avoid hurting my back or any other joint.



Forgot to mention, you can use the elastics for throws too.
For the scuba belt make sure you get shot / pellet weights. The solid ones will hurt you.

[Digi]

This training tool is used primarily in Shuai Jiao, but could have other applications in other arts. How would you use this in your style?

This is the highlight -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL4PY38ZNvE

[Jeff Burger]

I like this one alot better....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3eb740pyiE&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiBjfO2C3tU&mode=related&search=


Im do alot of lifting throws. Waste energy, train hard fight lazy.

[breeze]

Hey guys, just wanted to toss my coin into the ring, so Stuart, Jeff, Dale and whoever else wishes to answer this, do you really think all these gizmos can increase the speed of a strike?

What I mean is, for years I've been training and I have to say that many of the fights I've been in were either on the street or at some public place in my younger and wilder days. My point is this: A real fight isn't like anything in a tournament or in the quoon. The adrenaline rush is so great that a lot of the well practiced technique simply goes out the window. The last amateur fight I participated in was in 2003 against a 17 year old well built young man who was in far better shape than I was. I could see he was nervous and I took advantage of that. I faked, he went for it, I trapped and elbowed him hard. Even though we were wearing safety masks, the blow stunned him and he bent over and turned around, exposing his back to me. The judge called it, and we faced off again. In the following minutes he penetrated my defense with a kick that I had partially blocked, but his foot touched my chest, for a point in his favor. As his foot reached my chest, I was instantly aware of his open leg, and in that fraction of a moment, I wanted to sweep it at the knee but didn't because I knew that this would mean instant disqualification. I lost that match in points but couldn't help but feeling the whole thing was a joke.

If this had been on the street, the fight would have been over in the first thirty seconds, no second chances.What I do know is that when the chips are down, your arms and legs are going to travel as fast as you can get them to go, regardless of training. The reaction speed I have has been the same as far back as I can remember, even when I used to throw punches in the air with 5 pound weights over and over again. It just made me stronger not faster.I'm not as educated as Jay or Sean or Jeff B.or Dale or many others on this site are in the arts so I don't really know what the medical or scientific reasons are why some people are faster than others, but I know my body pretty good and even today at age 47 I'm still faster than most of the practitioners in my club, including sifu. Two guys I work out with are quick enough to block my strikes and they both have lightning quick strikes that I usually end up blocking too late and neither one does anything special other than meditate and concentrate. I think speed is something you're born with, and no amount of training is going to change that.
Do you guys agree or disagree? Tell me your thoughts on this, I'm really curious.

[Digi]

I think training tools do help to improve speed. I believe the key to true speed is efficiency. Utilizing only the necessary muscles with proper alignment to perform a technique very quickly. The job of most training tools is to ensure that the form is crisp to avoid wasted motion during drilling. Drilling helps to increase confidence, and your body will be in a more relaxed state (no acid buildup in the muscles). Some guys do have the gift, but everyone can improve speed with the right tool.

[Jeff Burger]

Yes I think training tools help.

Here arew those endovers I mentioned earlier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX4QVaExVbY&NR=1

[CEB]

Wall Bag. ...................

[Jeff Burger]

Favorite bags....

Wall bag / hook upper cut bag

Mushroom and round bag for angles.

http://store.titleboxing.com/specialty-heavy-bags.html

[Digi]

Breeze,
You also mentioned that your opponent in that amateur fight was faster and stronger. Even though that kid was stronger, he may have lacked experience and confidence to perform properly. That's why a lot of people feel that fighting is mostly a mental game. You have to remain "calm under fire", and trust in your abilities. This is why sparring is such a good exercise.

You study Wing Tsun correct? The first art that I studied was Wing Chun. Does your class practice full contact sparring? or is it just hand to hand sparring drills (like Lop Sau, Kune se Kune, Chi Sau/Gerk)?