Should loyalty be based on race?

[Insun]

As a Korean I get told a lot at church and by other Koreans in our community that I should switch to a school owned by a Korean and that I should be ashamed of myself for learning from an American. That every dollar I spend in an American owned school is like stealing a dollar from a Korean.

The truth is that I looked at every Korean owned school first and found that all of the Korean instructors in my area are poor examples to follow. All six schools that I visited were lying about what their actual rank is and were rude to me because I am a woman.

The instructor that I am with now only expressed some concern about my age reminding me that Hapkido is not gentle on the body so he would not recommend more than two hours a week of Hapkido training for me so that I could recover and rest well between training days. He also offered me a full month of lessons for free before having me join the school.

Has anyone had a similar experience or is Florida just a hard place to find a good school?

Should it really matter what race my instructor is?

[Prince Loeffler]

Should it really matter what race my instructor is?

The best two advice I can dispense to you !

1) Join a new church !

It should not matter what race your instructor is as long as you believed that the quality of instruction from from this person is top notch or of good quality.

But if your instructor starts to behave like John Wayne in the movie Genghis Khan, only one advise I can give you....Ruuuuuuuunnnnnnnnn to the hill my friend !!!!!:D

2) Seriously, stick to the instructor you are happy with despite all the condemation you are getting from your "church" Your church should be ashamed for condoning such racist attitude !

[Insun]

Unfortunately that seems to be the attitude at every Korean church I have attended. I left my last church because the minister told me that the reason I never had children was because my husband is American and it is God's way of keeping the Korean race clean by not letting me get pregnant.

I may be changing to a new church anyway. Thanks for your support.

[dao]

It sounds like that minister needs a new book on sex education.

I don't think it should matter what race your instructor is.

[aplonis]

You said church... Yet they are Korean? If they are Korean and converted to a Western religion, then the whole racial loyalty argument falls kind of flat, does it not?

And even were they Buddhist, then reincarnation means they'd only be Korean temporarily. So no, race is no basis for loyalty...not all by itself, certainly.

[klaasb]

Try joining a Korean Buddhist temple ;)

*just kidding*
In my experience Koreans approach their martial arts in a very commercialized way. To them teaching martial arts is just a business.

Did you talk in church about the poor quality of the Koreans who teach martial arts?

I don't know you personally, but if your current teacher teaches you hapkido in the right way, you don't need that much rest in between training.

[Insun]

Because of my age and my fibromyalgia my doctor advised against doing Hapkido at all. I was happy to hear that two classes a week might be a good option.

I understand the comment about Koreans being commercial but I think a more accurate word would be professional. In our culture being a martial arts teacher is a real profession. So it is treated as a business. Not as a hobby like many instructors are doing. That is one reason many Koreans are serious about certification and credentials. It shows you are a professional.

I find it funny that in a country where you have to have a license to catch fish, anyone can teach without a license at community centers or even open their own school.

[Lame Leopard]

Insun: I really appreciated your honesty on this issue. I realize that to some people race is everything. Loyalty to an ethnic group is paramount. I choose to deal with ethical, positive people, no matter what their background. My dentist is Phillipina, my last doctor was Chinese and my current one a white woman, my mechanic Hawaiian, my chiropractor Phillipino. You get the picture. They're all wonderful individuals.

Some people I know were upset when I married a Mexican lady. We have had a wonderful marriage for 34 years now.

I would choose a martial arts instructor based on their ethical principles, quality of instruction, in a style that I like. It sounds to me that you are leaning in this direction.

I enjoy learning about people's cultures, and do not fear them, but respect them.

I know that this sounds all nicey, nicey, and understand that the Korean people have suffered greatly at the hands of certain other cultures, which I will not mention. I do not stand in judgement of the "we must stick together" mindset. It was, at least partially, birthed out of much agony and numerous atrocities.

When you and I get to heaven, we are going to rejoice with the saints of the ages from every tribe and tongue (Revelation 5: 9).

If this is too "sermony" discount what you wish or even the whole thing. Pray about your choice and the Lord will lead you. God bless in whatever you decide.

[Insun]

I appreciate your encouraging words. I am very happy at the school and with my instructor. I truly believe that a person's education, and experience is what gives them their skill and knowledge. Not having been born of a particular race.

[klaasb]

So in that case the Koreans from your community aren't to worried about the fact that your current teacher isn't Korean, but they are more worried about his credentials.

I had to look up what fibromyalgia is on wikipedia.
I think the hapkido curriculum is versatile enough to train on a daily basis without having to worry about pain.

[Insun]

Koreans in Korea are concerned with credentials. My fellow church members are just being narrow minded and don't like that my instructor is not Korean.

Whether an instructor is Korean or not I think that it is important to study from a professional and certified instructor.

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is important that you find an instructor and art that you enjoy. Forget what everyone else say's and enjoy what you are doing.:cool:

[Jay Bell]

I can appreciate your story, Insun. I was married to a Korean in my early 20's...and never in my life had racism shoved in my face like that. Out of her entire family, her eldest uncle, his wife and my father-in-law were the only members that would give me the time of day. Most just scoffed or said (in hangul) that I was American and I wouldn't understand in any given conversation.

Sadly, my ex-wife got much of the same strife that you explained from her family when she took Hapkido at the college she was attending. None of the instructors were Korean.

I studied Japanese and Chinese arts from Americans. I studied a Russian art from a Korean. It just doesn't matter a bit.

[GrasshopperGirl]

Phooey.
Koreans might be speaking Japanese today if it weren't for U.S., Chinese, Turkish, and other nations. I don't mean this as a 'we saved your butt' incendiary comment, but I agree with you and the other posters: qualification counts, not division among race or national origin.
Kumbaya.

[DragonMind]

Korean is a nationality, not a race. There is no biological basis to anything about being Korean, just as there is actually no biological basis for race (link (http://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_04-background-01-07.htm)). What you have here is plain old prejudice. One can either condone it or reject it. Many people accept it simply to be a member of the group. This is the same thinking - or really lack of thinking - that leads to hatred against some group or person simply because they are "not us". Once you start putting labels on someone, whether it is Korean, American, conservative, liberal, gay, straight, or any number of much more derogatory ones; you start to create division. Religion should be about breaking down division and accepting one another, not building bigger walls and stronger hatred. It sounds as if you made the right choice for you. Its a shame the members of the church don't practice the real purpose of religion.

[Erik]

I'm a little perplexed - immigrant from Korea adopts (and leads) a religion that is not Korean and moves to the USA but rejects his American neighbors and community. Maybe I am misunderstanding this.

If not, I wouldn't take any advice, not just MA advice, from this guy or his buddies.

Congrats to you, by the way, on staying active and learning new stuff into your 60s. I hope I'll be like that.

[Jay Bell]

I'm a little perplexed - immigrant from Korea adopts (and leads) a religion that is not Korean and moves to the USA but rejects his American neighbors and community. Maybe I am misunderstanding this.

In my personal experiences, you are correct. My ex-mother-in-law and I would have rather heated discussions...her spending the majority of the time speaking horribly about America, Americans and American culture. It never made much sense to me to go through all of the hardships to get here, when she hated it (and us) so..

Thankfully she was the only one in the family so vocal on her opinions. I was shocked one day while we were all out shopping..and she was on her normal "anti-American" tirade (in Hangul of course) and my father-in-law went from cheery and happy to stone faced and she realized in that brief moment that she had shared enough of her feelings for one day.

[Erik]

In my personal experiences, you are correct. My ex-mother-in-law and I would have rather heated discussions...her spending the majority of the time speaking horribly about America, Americans and American culture. It never made much sense to me to go through all of the hardships to get here, when she hated it (and us) so..

Thankfully she was the only one in the family so vocal on her opinions. I was shocked one day while we were all out shopping..and she was on her normal "anti-American" tirade (in Hangul of course) and my father-in-law went from cheery and happy to stone faced and she realized in that brief moment that she had shared enough of her feelings for one day.
This country has its share of problems (this is life afterall, and life's not perfect) but there's got to be a place for getting it out in the open, getting to the root causes, and then figuring out how to improve things, too.

Too many "love it or leave it" vs. "complain, complain, complain" arguments and not enough "this is our home, x, y, & z sucks, I think these are the causes, so let's see what we can do about it."

I am sympathetic to traumatized people hoping to find their paradise (here) and feeling disappointed and homesick yet scared to return. But still, make the best of it. There are lots of friends to be made here (and lots of different cool MAs) so heck, have at it. It's fun.

[Insun]

Thanks to all of you for so many kind words of support. I hope to get my black belt in Hapkido some day and I don't plan on letting small minded people from our church stop me from reaching my goal.

[dao]

I just reread the thread and want to apoligize if I sounded flippent in my earlier remark. When I started Hapkido my parents (my ancestors were predominantly German/Irish) thought I had joined a cult and along with the support of their church wanted to help me get away from Hapkido. It was an interesting time in my life and I think based on what I wrote I think am still a little bitter about it. Since then I think my parents have accepted that I haven't sold myself to the devil by practicing MA but, whenever MA and religion are talked about I can get a little defensive.

[Brian Dugger]

. . . Should loyalty be based on race?

Has anyone had a similar experience or is Florida just a hard place to find a good school?

Should it really matter what race my instructor is?

No, yes, and no. It's interesting to me that in all this time of training, I have found that nearly all kansetsu works the same way on everyone. However during this process of "discovery", the one thing which I seem to find most inconsistent is the disposition of the mind. Regardless of race, creed, or religion, that old hard heart can be found just about anywhere at any given time (consistency of the inconsistent). Nurturing loyalty/friendship is like learning ukemi. When one learns how to trust himself, he can trust himself with others. In doing so, others will learn how to trust said individual and learn about themselves at the same time. So if your ukemi is good, you can trust yourself with just about any student in the dojo from the sensei/yudansha down to the soshisha. Loyalty begets itself . . .

[Cougar Claw]

I understand where you are coming. I think we all get a little defensive in our place in life with the things that are precious to us. Sometimes it becomes really hard to deal with someone who sees you as totally wrong or the devil. :devil:
I have some relatives like that. I stay firm in my beliefs and my understanding, and at the same time try to look at the situation from the other person's perspective. This is really difficult to do, but the right thing to do. Also, timing. When to use the appropriate words at the appropriate time. Words can destroy or heal a person's heart depending on how and when you use them. It depends on your intention and what you hope to work towards in your mutual understanding. This just takes practice and messing up a few times.
Mmmm... this sort of sounds like Martial Arts! :laugh:

Sometimes when the old cynicism creeps in, and I feel there are no more "Master Po" types, I read a response like this. It puts a smile on my face. :bow:

You may give an "Aw, shukins" response, but thems r words of wisdom.