Learning Jujitsu...?

[Bowser]

I have recently taken an interest in learning Jujitsu. I purchased an introductory book which shows basic techniques. My interest and desire to learn the art is growing; however, my time for class is limited to a couple of hours each day, and the available Dojo's(?) here in town that offer Jujitsu training are very few and far away. My thought is to find a matt at one of the local community centers where my brother and I can practice what I'm learning from the introductory book.

My questions to those with good knowledge regarding jujitsu are:

Can my brother and I practice the basic techniques presented in the below mentioned book safely if we follow the guidlines offered by the author?

Is this a reasonable way to begin to learn the art, considering the constraints I mentioned above?

Any thoughts which would be helpful in my persuit to get started?

The book which I have purchased is: Jujitsu--Basic Techniques of the Gentle Art; by George Kirby

[Abbax8]

Trying to learn jujitsu from a book is difficult at best. The instructions in the book, any book, and the pictures cannot give you the fine adjustments to details that are important in a technique. Also there is noone available to correct an error. I think I understand what your problem is but, you would get much further along the learning curve with a good instructor, even if you can only attend class 2 hours a week. If there is no class available, consider finding a weekend seminar you can attend.

Peace
Dennis

[Bowser]

"you would get much further along the learning curve with a good instructor, even if you can only attend class 2 hours a week. If there is no class available, consider finding a weekend seminar you can attend. "

That looks like a good suggestion. I will call around and see what is possible. If nothing more, maybe I can find someone who can review my efforts and correct my errors. I thank you for your thoughts, Dennis.

[Qasim]

Forget about trying to learn from a book. It should only be as a reference, as it cannot replace hands on instruction. I'm sure you don't want to take chances with hurting your brother and vice versa. This link to the International Sosuishitsu-Ryu Jujutsu Association might be a help to you.

ISJA (http://www.isja.com/)

They have a dojo in Portland and this is a Koryu system that is 350 years old. I study Fuji Ryu which is a style of jujutsu mainly influenced by Sosuishitsu Ryu through our founder's association and study of it. Our head instructor is also a practioner and instructor of Sosuishitsu Ryu and my sensei is about to be tested for his Shodan in this system.

This will give us more qualified instructors in not only Fuji Ryu but in Sosuishitsu Ryu. I hope to begin studying it after I've gotten to an advanced level in Fuji Ryu.

Good luck.:wave:

[RA Miller]

Eric-

Shoot me a PM. There are two real JJ styles available in Ptld plus several karate+ judo schools and two or more MMA/BJJ type schools. And a very good kajukenbo/sambo instructor and...

As well as some extraordinary instruction in other styles. You're living in one of the Japanese Culture hotspots of the US.

Rory

[Lawrence]

Hi there,

Definatly take Mr Miller up on his offer!

If it is jujutsu you want, then that is the best way forward. God damn I wish I was in your situation!

My advice would be to put down the book, hide it from yourself, then in 6, 12 or 18 months after attending regular lesons look at the book. You will probably consider what is in the book to be a load of garbage! Also, if you begin to practice koryu jujutsu you will probably want to throw away your text and possibly create your own notes and write your own, personal book/journal, which inevitably will be more valuable.

Do not attempt to learn from a book, with or without your brother. If you want to read, read about the history, tradition and culture behind the art, do not bother with technical manuals as most of what I have personally seen is not up to much!

Anyway, be safe, take up Mr Millers offer and have fun!

Take care,

Lawrence.

[Zujitsuka]

Bower, as Lawrence said, take Mr. Miller up on his advice and put the book down for about 18 months. Jujitsu involves a lot of joint manipulation and cavity presses. It is nothing to fool around with.

It was mentioned that your based in Portland. If that means you're in Portland, OR, make sure to check out the Straight Blast Gym. If I was anywhere near Portland, that is where I would train.

Here is the link to their site, http://www.straightblastgym.com

Peace & blessings,

[Bowser]

I thank each of you for your generous help. I will give this more consideration and continue to search for proper instruction.

You people are cool. Thanks again.
Eric

[Bad Karma]

You've got some very good suggestions to follow up on.

Peace

[vadrip]

Since many have posted some schools and websites which offer jujitsu in your area, your best is actual training from a certified instructor. If then you can only do little or only able to get some training, you may look into training some with your brother, but use the basics you've learned in class. Also videos are a much better reference material than books to learn from, but generally only after you've had some formal lessons from a certified instructor.

[lonewolf12563]

Yes you can learn Jujutsu on your own but with caution. Practice each technique very slowly. Be very compliant. Meaning if someone is twisting your wrist do not wait for it to break before you tap. Do not speed up the techniques because you think you have to for combat. ( a real fight). Concentrate on a few areas first. 1. Base or balance. This is a must. If you feel off balance, you are. 2. Learn how to fall correctly. 3. Forget about joint locks for now . They are really hard to pull off in real life. Instead work on striking, basic throws and grappiling.
Take it very slow. Practice the techniques in slow motion. Period. You must have self disapline. Do not take any move lightly. They were designed with max efficency. Also stay away from leg locks for now. Some moves you will not feel the pain until it is too late.
TAP OUT EARLY!!!!
I understand you prediciment. No schools, desire to learn. If we never took the initiative to teach ourselves new things, Nothing would be invented, including Jujutsu.
Make your discovery your own style of Jujutsu. Designed specificaly for your body type and physical abilities. Remember, Keep your training partner safe. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions on moves. Or check out my web site. Ed

[Qasim]

Originally posted by lonewolf12563
Yes you can learn Jujutsu on your own but with caution. Practice each technique very slowly. Be very compliant. Meaning if someone is twisting your wrist do not wait for it to break before you tap. Do not speed up the techniques because you think you have to for combat. ( a real fight). Concentrate on a few areas first. 1. Base or balance. This is a must. If you feel off balance, you are. 2. Learn how to fall correctly. 3. Forget about joint locks for now . They are really hard to pull off in real life. Instead work on striking, basic throws and grappiling.
Take it very slow. Practice the techniques in slow motion. Period. You must have self disapline. Do not take any move lightly. They were designed with max efficency. Also stay away from leg locks for now. Some moves you will not feel the pain until it is too late.
TAP OUT EARLY!!!!
I understand you prediciment. No schools, desire to learn. If we never took the initiative to teach ourselves new things, Nothing would be invented, including Jujutsu.
Make your discovery your own style of Jujutsu. Designed specificaly for your body type and physical abilities. Remember, Keep your training partner safe. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions on moves. Or check out my web site. Ed

You've got to be kidding. You CANNOT learn this on your own, you can be injured or injure someone on your own. What are your qualifications or lack thereof to give out this advice (which will prove to be at some point disasterous) to someone looking for training?

You claim the rank of Menkyo (hmmmm.... interesting) on your website.

[lonewolf12563]

I knew this would upset some. The origins of martial arts was based on exploration and experimentation. Granted most of the experimentation was done on japanese prisoners. The reason why so many styles are similar is because the human body only works in so many ways. Having said this, you can learn how to do an basic arm bar on your own. How many ways can it be manipulated. Five?
I am not saying he will be the best Jujutsu guy or his techniques will be perfect without instruction. But if he can not find the style or dojo to train, what is he going to do? Nothing?
A majority of your most famous Japanese martial artist went of on their own, and develop there own system, only after a short time of instruction. Bruce Lee did.
I'm sure the writer knows how to walk,grab and think. The masters didn't have the library of knowlege that is available to us today. They practiced, made mistakes and yes sometimes got hurt. But they had the guts to do it.
Did you ever train in an invite only japanese dojo? The Sensei didn't speak any english to me. I had to fiqure things out on my own thru trial and error. And I thank him today because I am quicker to adapt to the fluidity of combat. Instead of doing some trick like a trained monkey!
If the person who wrote the question has half a brain, which I'm sure he does, he can pick up skills from books and manuels and apply them. Will his Jujutsu be the same as you and me. No. Maybe he will discover or develop skills to beat us both. Jujutsu isn't some mystical art. It is just hand to hand combat. All of those fancy flying thru the air techniques that most practice, are thrown right out the window when in a real situation. When was the last time you saw someone do a wrist lock in the UFC?
Stick to basics, follow my advice about safety and he will be fine.
Hand to Hand combat has been around for more than 6000 years. Who invented it? Or better yet which came first the chicken or the egg? Ed

[wab25]

When was the last time you saw someone do a wrist lock in the UFC?

Truthfully, I haven't seen a wristlock applied in UFC. They are illegal in the UFC, and have been since the very first tournaments. Rule #8 on the UFC page clearly states that "Small joint manipulation" is a foul. I find it interesting that a "No Holds Barred" match has 31 fouls, timed rounds and weight classes.

However, wristlocks are very effective on the street. As are finger locks and thumb locks. I know this from using them on the street. They are not pretty, but they get peoples attention, in a right now, sort of way. They also were not the kata that I practiced in class, but surprisingly, the principals I used to get the lock were the same principals that the kata demonstrated.

Another thing to remember is that all those pretty throws they do in jujitsu look pretty because the other guy flies thru the air so gracefully. The reason he does this is to protect himself. When applied on the street, with a person who does not know how to protect himself from such a technique, the technique will still work. The person being thrown may just stand there and let his arm break, or headplant himself in a very ungracefull manner. But, that is really what the technique is supposed to do.

This leads me to practicing out of a book. I don't recommend it, mainly because the techniques will work. The difficulty will come in finding practice partners. Not too many people will let you break their arm repeatedly. Or, the much more likely event, you will not apply the technique correctly, because you are being nice to your friend, and bad habits will develop.

Find a good instructor, he will teach you how to protect yourself, and let you practice on people who will allow you to apply the technique correctly. Since bad habits are so hard to break, I would wait until you found a good instructor.

If you really want to start training before you find an instructor, take ballroom dance, or swing dance or any other partner dance. This will teach you balance and movement. It will also start to develope your sense of feel for other people, feeling where there balance is, where their feet and hands are, where they are going... This is all VERY important for any martial art you study. I have studied ballroom dance for over 16 years and Jujitsu for 6 years. I can show you every single jujitsu technique on the dance floor.

[Qasim]

Originally posted by wab25
This leads me to practicing out of a book. I don't recommend it, mainly because the techniques will work. The difficulty will come in finding practice partners. Not too many people will let you break their arm repeatedly. Or, the much more likely event, you will not apply the technique correctly, because you are being nice to your friend, and bad habits will develop.

Find a good instructor, he will teach you how to protect yourself, and let you practice on people who will allow you to apply the technique correctly. Since bad habits are so hard to break, I would wait until you found a good instructor.

Well said and to the point!

[johenora]

Originally posted by Bowser
I have recently taken an interest in learning Jujitsu. I purchased an introductory book which shows basic techniques. My interest and desire to learn the art is growing; however, my time for class is limited to a couple of hours each day, and the available Dojo's(?) here in town that offer Jujitsu training are very few and far away. My thought is to find a matt at one of the local community centers where my brother and I can practice what I'm learning from the introductory book.

My questions to those with good knowledge regarding jujitsu are:

Can my brother and I practice the basic techniques presented in the below mentioned book safely if we follow the guidlines offered by the author?

Is this a reasonable way to begin to learn the art, considering the constraints I mentioned above?

Any thoughts which would be helpful in my persuit to get started?

The book which I have purchased is: Jujitsu--Basic Techniques of the Gentle Art; by George Kirby
-----------
Mr. Bowser:
A year has past and I bet if you took the advise of eveyone on this thread you would have improved considerably.
Call Mr. Kirby and get his new tape on nerves and say i recommende it for what it is worth as my opinion but the tape should take you into new realms.
Have you found a teacher from AJJF or AJA or JA to help you. If none try a Judo master --you will be surprised those Judoka can really do Jiu Jitsu.
If you are not in fear of extreme pain find a Hapkido or Daito Ryu expert and get some work on the mats. Also check out BJJ and GJJ and get the feel on a daily basis. Play JiuJitsu. Perform JiuJitsu.etc
Good luck in the Gentle art.
Cordially yours,

[John Bennett]

Eric, please don't forget to put your real, full name in all of your posts as per the forum rules.

Regarding learning from a book, as others have said, learning from an instructor is infinitely better.

You are fortunate to live in a location that offers good jiu-jitsu instruction.

Go here first...

SBGI Headquarters
1911 N.E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
Portland, OR 97212-3928
(503)-230-7924
http://www.straightblastgym.com


...and consider yourself lucky. I would love to be able to attend that school.

[RA Miller]

Originally posted by John Bennett

SBGI Headquarters
1911 N.E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd.
Portland, OR 97212-3928
(503)-230-7924
http://www.straightblastgym.com


...and consider yourself lucky. I would love to be able to attend that school.

John- if you want to take a road trip, I'll put you up, feed you and microbrew you to death (Rogue's Brutal Bitter!!). You can work out at StraightBlast and at Randy Couture's in Gresham; meet Craig Bell in Salem; and I'll even get you into the LEO classes Mac and I do. Standing offer John.

Rory

[John Bennett]

Whoa!!!!

Thanks Rory!!!!

I'm currently on a training hiatus, becoming weaker and fatter by the day.

However the withdrawl symptoms of my MA addiction are growing. I miss the mat more each day.

If I can start training and building back up over the next year, I may very well take you up on your offer in the future!

Thanks Man!!!!

[Cliff Hargrave]

I was always inder the impression that "small joint manipulation" in the UFC refered to fingers and toes, not wrists. The same rule is in BJJ competitions and wristlocks are allowed.

It doesn't seem fair to not allow wristslocks but they can twist your dang ankle off.

[John Bennett]

Don't be coy Klif.

You know darn well they allow wristlocks in the UFC. And why no one ever uses them.

If you guys wanna know about wristlocks in the street, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has more real life experience in that area than Klif.

He's just lucky the nearest ACLU office is a good 300 miles from where he plies his trade. :D

[Jason H]

John,

Wow, I never knew the UFC allows wristlocks...geesh, you learn something new everyday! :D

Why aren't they used then? Is it because the glove the fighter's wear prohibit the full bending of the wrist, therefore making locks too darn hard to land? Is it because hands are small and too slippery to grasp when covered in sweat?

[John Bennett]

There are many reasons why we see so few wrist locks in MMA fighting. The most important reason being of course, they rarely work.

Standing wrist locks can work great against an unsuspecting drunk or against someone who is minimally compliant like an arrestee who just wants to make trouble, but not really fight.

Against a trained fighter or thug who is already full of adrenalin and on the attack, the chance of a successful standing wristlock is so low as to be foolish to attempt unless it's for the purpose of defense against a weapon.

Wristlocks are an artifact of the days when soldiers fought with katanas. Back then it was very important to learn how to attack the wrist of a guy wielding a meter long blade as a backup plan for breaking or losing your own blade.

The plethora of fancy wristlocks in some systems is often a sentimental artifact left over from those days, not a utilitarian practical inclusion.

Wristlocks are most useful today for defense against weapons. The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu curriculum for defense against gun/knife/club attacks includes more wrist locks that most people would believe.

[bias on]Against a thug intent on pummelling you, if you're close enough to be holding his wrist, your priorities should either be throwing him on his spine or breaking free to run like hell or draw your weapon.

That's my doctrinal bias showing.[/bias off]

Some people have other doctrines. :)

[Jason H]

.....thus endeth the lesson. ;)


Thanks for the insight, John!

[wab25]

Wrist locks are hard to get, especially against a trained opponent. But, if you can get one, they are very effective, either for breaking the wrist or for setting up strikes. While they are hard to get, I have got them against jujitsu guys ( who study them ) against kenpo guys and even against BJJ guys. ( the BJJ guys were only blue belts though ) Wrist locks are not the easiest thing to get, but if you do get one, it will end things right then and there. Now, I won't go after a wrist lock because it is too obvious and easy to counter. But I do study them, among other things. Every once in a while, when sparring, the opportunity just presents itself. When that happens, because I train wrist locks, I can take it effectively and get the submission right away.

A side note, the people who have the best defense against wrist locks are also the people who train wrist locks, at least in my experience.

[Abbax8]

The way I see it, a wrist lock is best used on the street after you throw your attacker, place them face down, then apply the lock, then have a nice long chat about the error of their ways.:D

Peace
Dennis

[johenora]

Dennis and Bill---
Both you JuJutsuka are right on in your erudite evaluations of and proper applications of wrist locks.
Bill that efficient and effective wristlock you speak of while the assaulter is in the turtle position should make a believer out of him and of course easier to clamp the Smith and Wesson speed Hand-cuffs on him.
As well trained JuJutsuka you all know fullwell from doing JuJutsu:"Painful wristlocks makes believers of them all." Wrist locks are of paramount importance in doing explosive JuJutsu.
Cordially,

[lp1]

Maby I'm not the best informed in the arts I haVE A QUESTION WHAT IS dAKEN tAIJUTSU KINHON GATA. and what is Shuto Ken,Shiho Dori.U Ken,Daki Jime Dori I went to a dojo ang I heard these names can anybody tell me what any of these mean and if they mean something what style is it from. :bow:

[Bad Karma]

Oops-ie!! (I just don't feel very manly when I say that... :o )

Peace

[J4d3]

i had to check what this thread was about cuz the wrist lock tangent threw me off :D well anyway i say books are helpful to augment your martial arts knowledge when you already have a strong foundation.i would think most experienced martial artists atleast have one or two books for reference.but thats about the best to use them for.you could look over some books to familiarize yourself with the culture, and the ins/outs of the style but as a stand alone learning tool i would be hard pressed to find a number of well trained martial artist who would recommend such an endeavor.