My classes are growing so is my insanity LOL

[freedomfighter04]

Hey all since we moved into our new building (you can see the building at this link http://www.hongkongkimtaekwondo.com/lawrenceburg.html )

and the new session will be starting up on September 04 my enrollement went from 8 students to now 27 students but would have more due to the room size that were in. So I'm excited about it and hope that they stick with it like the students that I currently have have stuck with it. The most that I have had at one time is around 16 so this is even a big jump on that. The one question that I have for you all is how do yo draw more adults to your classes ??? They seem to be the hardest to draw for me. I have two adults on that is handicapped and she is my black belt and a lady that is a red belt. So how do you draw in your adult students.

[TonyU]

Aaron, I moved it to School Management where I think is better suited.
Good luck.

[Abbax8]

Hey all since we moved into our new building (you can see the building at this link http://www.hongkongkimtaekwondo.com/lawrenceburg.html )

and the new session will be starting up on September 04 my enrollement went from 8 students to now 27 students but would have more due to the room size that were in. So I'm excited about it and hope that they stick with it like the students that I currently have have stuck with it. The most that I have had at one time is around 16 so this is even a big jump on that. The one question that I have for you all is how do yo draw more adults to your classes ??? They seem to be the hardest to draw for me. I have two adults on that is handicapped and she is my black belt and a lady that is a red belt. So how do you draw in your adult students.

Start them young grasshopper and keep them interested into adulthood.:bow:

Peace

Dennis

[Kwon Pup Maze]

We have been open for about five years now and we have around 130 students. It varies and I've seen 170 active students at one time. Gets hard remembering names though.

We have a strategy," we get students and student getters". Our students earn $30 for every person they bring in and we sign up for six week trials. Most stay past that though. We give the students postcard size ads that they pass out at school, friends, family, and sports events.

[freedomfighter04]

Thanks for the feed back and keep it coming. Its a great problem to have but the city that I teach in has taken over paying me and they have cut the cost to my classes from $35.00 per month to $15.00 for three months but haven't attracted any new adults. I'm hope that the parents will see what its like with the children and join class.

[Eliz]

Adults can be tough to draw. Some ideas that I have seen work:

Family discounts.

If you can run two classes simultaneously (we had two matted rooms), run the adults and kids at the same time. Many of the parents have to be there anyway and will be more apt to sign up for classes.

If you can run two classes simultaneously, put a cardio kickboxing class at the same time slot as the adults. It will draw in people who would not normally come into a MA school.

One of the things that makes adults difficult to draw is they are interested for different reasons. Some are interested in the stretching and fitness. Others want hardcore SD. Others love the forms and sparring. Finding a way to balance the classes can be challenging.

Good luck. :)

[shodog]

If you're teaching adults and kids in the same class, that may be a big problem.

A lot of adults do not want to be in a class with a bunch of kids, for several reasons:

1) They see the instructor as potentially distracted in having to keep the kids in line, which detracts from their own learning.

2) Adults have a hard time viewing someone younger than themselves as higher ranking (it doesn't matter if you're talking martial arts, or computers....adults have a hard time seeing kids are superior).

You certainly don't want kids teaching adults...the adults will not take them seriously.

You may try splitting classes up. One for kids and one for adults. You can have one "mixed" class a week, but as a regular basis, it's not a good idea to have an all-age-inclusive school.

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck,

Jim

[moogong]

If you're teaching adults and kids in the same class, that may be a big problem.

A lot of adults do not want to be in a class with a bunch of kids, for several reasons:

1) They see the instructor as potentially distracted in having to keep the kids in line, which detracts from their own learning.

2) Adults have a hard time viewing someone younger than themselves as higher ranking (it doesn't matter if you're talking martial arts, or computers....adults have a hard time seeing kids are superior).

You certainly don't want kids teaching adults...the adults will not take them seriously.

You may try splitting classes up. One for kids and one for adults. You can have one "mixed" class a week, but as a regular basis, it's not a good idea to have an all-age-inclusive school.

Just a few thoughts.

Good luck,

Jim

I certainly agree with this as I have seen this problem ruin schools.

[DragonMind]

Believe it ot not, your price is too low. Adults, in particular, are influenced by the Sony Effect. This is a well known phenomenon in marketing that basically says Quality = Price. For example, people will pay thousands of dollars for a Viking stove despite it having one of the worst failure and maintenance records in the industry.

All the suggestions you've been given are on target, but I'd bet that the killer is your price point. The only thing worse than cheap is free when it comes to enrollment and retention.

[freedomfighter04]

Believe it ot not, your price is too low. Adults, in particular, are influenced by the Sony Effect. This is a well known phenomenon in marketing that basically says Quality = Price. For example, people will pay thousands of dollars for a Viking stove despite it having one of the worst failure and maintenance records in the industry.

All the suggestions you've been given are on target, but I'd bet that the killer is your price point. The only thing worse than cheap is free when it comes to enrollment and retention.

I know what you mean by the Sony Effect an all but I'm living in a city that has more money then they know what to do with it cause of the casino. So since the organization that I've been with is being disbanded and we moved into this new building that the city is running an they lowered the price. Just because its cheap doesn't mean that the product isn't good :D:

[DragonMind]

I know what you mean by the Sony Effect an all but I'm living in a city that has more money then they know what to do with it cause of the casino. So since the organization that I've been with is being disbanded and we moved into this new building that the city is running an they lowered the price. Just because its cheap doesn't mean that the product isn't good :D:That's exactly my point. Sony Effect plays out regardless of the real level of quality. People with more money are even more susceptible to it. Since you don't get to set the price, you'll just have to live with it. Just don't expect a lot of adults.

[shodog]

I must concur with the pricing thing. My former instructor (I moved out of town. I didn't quit) ran one of the largest karate schools in the country. He and I sat down and talked about the "business" of running a school before I moved and this was a big point for him.

If the city has set your price, I'm not sure what you can do about that except move into your own location.

You sound like you're in the same boat I am.....the chicken and the egg scenerio: You need your own location, but can't afford it until you build up your student base....but you can't really build up your student base until you get your own location.

If I figure out a solution to that problem I'll let you know....or maybe someone can offer us both some advice on that (beyond bite the bullet, take out a loan and take your chances).

~ Jim

[Kwon Pup Maze]

Make your current students partners. Have them help pay the rent, the more students they send you the more money they make.

[Louise]

I am the only adult female in my club and there are only a handful of adults. It does seem to be hard to attract and retain adults. From what I've gathered most are nervous of the sparring and we have lost adult females after they've been smacked in the face a couple of times by lively lads. Try to make sure that you have a balance right (as has been said before) and for sparring, sort into ability groups. I tend to be put with the older children but as I'm a small woman, I struggle to hold my own against adult/large teenage men. Good luck.

[Kwon Pup Maze]

So how is the class working out FreedomFighter04 ?

We have gone to trying out 10 marketing ideas a month and if we don't get results then we will elimenate what is not working.

Signs, VIP passes, news add, school add, seminars, phone book, mailings, web page, discount specials, phone followups to people that did not sign up but checked us out to see why or to give them another shot at it, outside events like festivals where we will pass out flyers and interact with people and get at least 20 phone numbers to set appointments.

There is more but these things are where we are seeing our greatest results.

[Kwon Pup Maze]

During December we signed up 13 students and two families of five at a family rate, a substantial savings for them. How are the rest of you guys doing ?

One thing we did was have the kids make Christmas cards with an invitation to someone as a gift for thirty days of training for free. Once they came in some signed for six months.

[Rasputin]

Our classes are $5 a person per month, three classes a week, to YMCA members, and we can barely get 2 people in on Saturdays at 11am.

The Sony effect at work.

[TonyU]

The Sony effect at work.
I'm sorry. What's the Sony effect?

[Musubi Dojo]

I'm sorry. What's the Sony effect?

I'll take Sony Playstation for 1000 Tony!

[CEB]

It happens when your product becaomes a Prestige Good. Basically, people don't think what you are selling is worth anything unless you rape them on mat fees. I used to see the same thing in the band business. More we charged people for weddings the more work we would get.

[Musubi Dojo]

It happens when your product becaomes a Prestige Good. Basically, people don't think what you are selling is worth anything unless you rape them on mat fees. I used to see the same thing in the band business. More we charged people for weddings the more work we would get.

I've seen the same thing. If people shell out a load of money they're more likely to show up so it's not wasted. Cheap classes are a lot easier to blow off...

[Kwon Pup Maze]

If we have kids that miss classes we bring the parents in to find out what the reason is.

Alot of time it is the "Sony Effect", we explain to the parent that they have invested in their child and we ask if they can see the results from the commitment to two hours of training a week. They will agree to seeing progress while training.

We explain that if the child is the one choosing the nights they come to class then we are talking to the wrong person and ask if we should invite the child in, because obvisouly the child is running the household and making the decisions for the parent when it comes to spending the money. 99% of the time the parent agrees to bring their child to class two scheduled nights a week or sign up themselves to gain leadership skills through our training.

Make them see the benifit of training and offer them a new outlook on life by physical excercise, mental focus, and spirit of a warrior. Make them feel the need to come and train.

[Musubi Dojo]

We explain that if the child is the one choosing the nights they come to class then we are talking to the wrong person and ask if we should invite the child in, because obvisouly the child is running the household and making the decisions for the parent when it comes to spending the money.

If an instructor of any sort said this to me I'll laugh my arse off and then put my kid into another activity.

To me is comes across as a disrespectful high pressure sales tactic.

My 2 cents
c

[Kwon Pup Maze]

Sometimes the truth hurts.

If they want their child to become better behaved, focused, and physically active then they will commit to two hours a week. If not then they need to take a hard look at what they are teaching their child to be and we tell them this. Those that don't like it can leave, we always are looking for new students.

We are located in a township of twenty thousand, that is not very big for New Jersey. We have 137 students currently and I have seen it at 150. We have been open for almost four years now. We seem to be doing something right, I think it is that the parents see their children growing in the Martial Arts and not falling into some of the peer pressures that they did. We want the best for our kids as parents and we should want them to be better then we are no matter what they choose to do in life.

All we do is tell the parent the truth and it is up to them to decide if their child is worth the effort and time.

[Musubi Dojo]

I was never that concerned with keeping students, if they want to train great, if not who cares, someone else will take their place.

I still don't think slapping the parents like that is a good idea, but that's my opinion and you can take it or leave it. ;)

Cheers
c

[Kwon Pup Maze]

Chris, are you a parent. Your statement of "If they want to train great, if not who cares", I find that most disturbing to hear a parent say. I care for one, and I know the other instructors that I work with care . As a matter of fact almost every person I know in the martial arts cares. We all see the benifit and what kind of investment it is to make for our children to become better people.

Those that don't care are ones that depend on their children to the right thing, yet they won't get off their butts to teach the children what the right thing is.

They grow up fast, and the ones that I deal with at least know I care.

[Musubi Dojo]

Chris, are you a parent. Your statement of "If they want to train great, if not who cares", I find that most disturbing to hear a parent say. I care for one, and I know the other instructors that I work with care . As a matter of fact almost every person I know in the martial arts cares. We all see the benifit and what kind of investment it is to make for our children to become better people.

Those that don't care are ones that depend on their children to the right thing, yet they won't get off their butts to teach the children what the right thing is.

They grow up fast, and the ones that I deal with at least know I care.

Hi James, I was thinking about this last night. My disconnect here is that I don't teach children. I teach adults and if they don't have the discipline to show up that's their problem.

Now as a parent, I decide what my kid should or should not be doing and anyone telling me different can get stuffed. Period.

I also don't believe it's martial art's instructors job to raise someone else's kids.

Children need to learn respect and discipline at home before they ever see a martial arts class. I don't believe that 2 hours a week of MA will transform a child's life no matter how well intentioned. In fact I have a low opinion of most of the children's classes I've seen.

What rubbed me the wrong way about your initial statement was the aggressive used car salesman type approach it took. It 's a akin to questioning someone's masculinity because he wants to talk to his wife before he buys a car. I find it way out of line.

Verbally battering someone and justifying if with "caring" is a pretty slippery slope.

Students come and go. That's a fact of life. You're far better off creating a positive atmosphere in which your students want to train.

Cheers
c

[Brian R. VanCise]

Hi James, I was thinking about this last night. My disconnect here is that I don't teach children. I teach adults and if they don't have the discipline to show up that's their problem.

Now as a parent, I decide what my kid should or should not be doing and anyone telling me different can get stuffed. Period.

I also don't believe it's martial art's instructors job to raise someone else's kids.

Children need to learn respect and discipline at home before they ever see a martial arts class. I don't believe that 2 hours a week of MA will transform a child's life no matter how well intentioned. In fact I have a low opinion of most of the children's classes I've seen.

What rubbed me the wrong way about your initial statement was the aggressive used car salesman type approach it took. It 's a akin to questioning someone's masculinity because he wants to talk to his wife before he buys a car. I find it way out of line.

Verbally battering someone and justifying if with "caring" is a pretty slippery slope.

Students come and go. That's a fact of life. You're far better off creating a positive atmosphere in which your students want to train.

Cheers
c

Chris really thinks along the same line as I do on this in that if you came across that way to myself or my wife that would be it and my kid would be looking for another activity. I would really rethink this approach! :cool:

[Kwon Pup Maze]

If you see the martial arts as just another activity then you have been training wrong..

I am not selling anything here, these people signed up and are paying for classes whether they come or not.

If their child is able to influence them to stay home while the child plays video games then I think I have every right to point out the fact that their child is spending the money at the child's will. If someone is dumb enough to spend the money then place them into another program ( which cost money ) because I told them they lacked leadership skills. Then they deserve to learn that lesson the hard way, through the loss of money in their bank account.

[Musubi Dojo]

If you see the martial arts as just another activity then you have been training wrong..

These are the sort of black and white, night and day statements that are aggressive, uncalled for and can't be substantiated. You know nothing about my training or Brian's. My initial comment was about your statement and nothing else.


I am not selling anything here, these people signed up and are paying for classes whether they come or not.

Then why are you using aggressive, greasy, used car salesmen tactics to keep your students? I take it you've signed them to contract that you enforce no matter what?



If their child is able to influence them to stay home while the child plays video games then I think I have every right to point out the fact that their child is spending the money at the child's will. If someone is dumb enough to spend the money then place them into another program ( which cost money ) because I told them they lacked leadership skills. Then they deserve to learn that lesson the hard way, through the loss of money in their bank account.

Once again your are presuming to know what is best for someone else's child and whether or not a parent has good leadership skills (which are different than parenting skills) based on a coupe of missed classes. I don't think that's realistic or good martial arts instruction. My opinion purely.

Since we've hijacked the thread and seem to be going in circles, let's agree to disagree and move on.

[DragonMind]

I'm sorry. What's the Sony effect?Short answer, it is a psychological phenomenon that says people think a product is of much higher quality if it is expensive. Harley has made extremely good use of this technique.

[good]

I found a video by Melody Shuman that has some really good ideas on marketing to the younger generation. There's also some other useful info for school owners. Try http://www.championsway.com/promos/landing-pages/kick-start-your-school.html . Hopefully this is helpful.


Good luck!

[DragonMind]

Seeing as Championsway is a local company for you, I doubt you had to look hard. :D