Kung Fu & Religion

[Digi]

What are some of your perspectives on kung fu and religion?

[sean_stonehart]

What are some of your perspectives on kung fu and religion?

Don't have any. Kung Fu (or any martial art) is one thing, religion is another. They were side by side in places & at times, but not exclusively packaged.

[Dale Dugas]

What are some of your perspectives on kung fu and religion?

Asking about religion usually opens up a WHOLE can of worms that makes people a little uneasy...

Are you asking if people are being taught religion in their MA schools or are you interested in hearing what religious arts people are practicing??

[Digi]

It's kind of complicated, but I'll give it my best shot. In the Shaolin temple, there were probably monks that integrated some sort of spiritual practice with formal combat training. I was wondering how if the practice of some religions has helped to improve in overall training. That's all.


Asking about religion usually opens up a WHOLE can of worms that makes people a little uneasy...

Are you asking if people are being taught religion in their MA schools or are you interested in hearing what religious arts people are practicing??

[Abbax8]

I can't speak specifically about Kung Fu , however a solid conviction in ones faith can enhance all other activities one chooses to pursue. Now this can have a very broad range of outcomes. A person who sincerely believes in a faith that stresses nonviolence like the Quakers or the Amish will not fight, while you can go the other extreme and see the results of Islamic Terrorists.

In between these two polar opposites, if one is convinced that a cause is just, and that you are called to do what you can to right a wrong and that there is a spiritual as well as worldly reason to fight, then the fighter is more determined to engage in the cause.

The use of drugs in religious observances will also effect the outcome as in the Huks or the Mao Mao (spelling?).

Peace

Dennis

[Qasim]

.... A person who sincerely believes in a faith that stresses nonviolence like the Quakers or the Amish will not fight, while you can go the other extreme and see the results of Islamic Terrorists....

Don't forget the Crusades, The Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials. :rolleyes:

I agree with Sean.

[Cougar Claw]

A great deal of kung fu has Buddhist roots. I kinow White Eyebrow has both Buddhist and Taoist roots. Some forms of kung fu were family styles where religion had a minimal influence.

All kung fu has philosophical roots and involves an complete life style unless the study of kung fu principles is just on a surface level. "I know how to rip a face with a Tiger Claw and rip out a throat with an Eagle Claw.".

Anyone who would change religions because the study of an art required it had very shallow roots in their faith to begin with.

[Abbax8]

Don't forget the Crusades, The Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials. :rolleyes:

I agree with Sean.

:confused:

So what has the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials or the Inquisition got to do with what I posted?

Peace

Dennis

[Jeff Burger]

CMA mostly comes form 3 temples Buddhist, Daoist and Muslim.

I'd say religion played the biggest role in Buddhist arts because they lean towards being passive.

Example - the adopted spear techniques to the staff. Basically you could bash the guy senseless instead of stab and kill him.

[sheb]

As far as I know kung fu became a part of the religion of the shaolin monks and otherwise. ... and I read that some people who wanted to learn the martial art of some monks had to convert to their religion before they were teached. ... and perhaps the study of the religion, can help to understand the ma better.

[BlueDragon]

To me the relation between kung fu and religion is in the philosophies that are applied. For example, hard on soft/soft on hard is an application of yin/yang. Focussing your strength is an application of chi. Clearing your mind before facing an opponent and breath control is an application of meditation. I find that principles based on eastern philosophies underpin alot of what we do, but it is subtle and doesn't hold any belief structures like reincarnation, which most people would consider the main element of religion.

As for moral influences, I think each school has it's own expectations on how a student should use their training outside of class and I think most schools regardless of style and past religious influences would encourage students to use violence as a last resort and to use it within the local laws, if only to cover their own backs legally.

I recently visited Shaolin and the connection between training and religion appears non-existent there, most likely because of the governments stamp down on religion.

[Jeff Burger]

I recently visited Shaolin and the connection between training and religion appears non-existent there, most likely because of the governments stamp down on religion.

So you know the Chinese government has a "stamp down" on religion" but you think the monks are real?

Instead of going into it I'd suggest you do a Budoseek search about Shaolin Temple.

[BlueDragon]

So you know the Chinese government has a "stamp down" on religion" but you think the monks are real?

I saw very few monks and those that I saw weren't practising kung fu. The temple itself is mostly a tourist attraction but the kung fu schools there were very impressive in size and the discipline of the young students. Religion and kung fu seem very seperate in modern day Shaolin. When the temple was operational it was probably more integrated, just as education and kung fu are integrated in the modern kung fu schools at Shoalin.

There are many operational temples and practising buddhists throughout China.

I'm just relating my experiences from my own training and visit to China to the original posters question.


In the Shaolin temple, there were probably monks that integrated some sort of spiritual practice with formal combat training. I was wondering how if the practice of some religions has helped to improve in overall training. That's all.

[DaNinjew]

:confused:

So what has the Crusades, the Salem Witch Trials or the Inquisition got to do with what I posted?

Peace

Dennis

Dennis,
I think he was inferring that Christianity has its violent or militaristic side as well. But I like what you had to say about conviction...religion can give a sense of clarity, can steel the will, give purpose, enhance focus, overcome fears, and can be a pillar of strength to those who must travel into the valley of death. Conversely, religious warriors, have at times been careless fanatics who needlessly or foolishly give their lives in persuit of their beliefs...I.e. the Kamakazis of WWII.

[Qasim]

Dennis,
I think he was inferring that Christianity has its violent or militaristic side as well. But I like what you had to say about conviction...religion can give a sense of clarity, can steel the will, give purpose, enhance focus, overcome fears, and can be a pillar of strength to those who must travel into the valley of death. Conversely, religious warriors, have at times been careless fanatics who needlessly or foolishly give their lives in persuit of their beliefs...I.e. the Kamakazis of WWII.

Spot on! :up: That's exactly what I meant.

[onehawaiian]

our temple has a christian foundation.
we are not required to follow as such, but to fully comprehend and excel it is recommended.

[Nick L.]

our temple has a Christian foundation.
we are not required to follow as such, but to fully comprehend and excel it is recommended.

I would say that one should learn martial arts and Christianity separately. While I do think that everything a Christian does should glorify God and that the martial arts can and does have their place in that religion, if you are new to both and try to learn both together you will have a skewed view of both. In other words you should not be told to learn about Christianity in order to understand a martial art. Martial arts do have a strong moral code which is very relevant to Christian beliefs. I am a Christian, I would not tell anyone that it isn't the best choice that I ever made in my life but at the same time, I would not want to see someone make a false choice for insincere motives.

[onehawaiian]

I would say that one should learn martial arts and Christianity separately. While I do think that everything a Christian does should glorify God and that the martial arts can and does have their place in that religion, if you are new to both and try to learn both together you will have a skewed view of both. In other words you should not be told to learn about Christianity in order to understand a martial art. Martial arts do have a strong moral code which is very relevant to Christian beliefs. I am a Christian, I would not tell anyone that it isn't the best choice that I ever made in my life but at the same time, I would not want to see someone make a false choice for insincere motives.i think you misunderstood or i probably didn't word it right.
our temple has a christian foundation.
we have a spiritual aspect that helps develop our kung fu beyond the physical.
you can still achieve a high level of martial ability without the christianity part, but we believe they go hand and hand.
however, the choice is ultimately yours and it is not forced upon any student.

it's kinda like sending your kid to a christian school.
they'll probably still graduate even if they aren't believers, but they would gain so much more if they followed the faith.

[Nick L.]

Understood

[onehawaiian]

Understoodyeah i probably worded it wrong. ;)
it kinda is a touchy subject to a degree.
in fact, my sifu does not subscribe to any religion but does acknowledge a spirituality of some sort.
he's a good guy, good teacher and very knowledgeable, but he is an example of our temple and the freedom to choose.

[Dennis Monk]

Hold on a second. Onehawaiian, you said your temple has a "Christian" foundation, but you say your sifu "not subscribe to any religion". That does not compute with me.
I am of the belief that you keep religion separate from your martial arts. This is why there are several martial art systems that I would never practice. I am not going to claim to be a Christian and then be practicing "Buddhism" or anything else that would compromise my faith.
Can you clarify this for me?

[onehawaiian]

Hold on a second. Onehawaiian, you said your temple has a "Christian" foundation, but you say your sifu "not subscribe to any religion". That does not compute with me.
I am of the belief that you keep religion separate from your martial arts. This is why there are several martial art systems that I would never practice. I am not going to claim to be a Christian and then be practicing "Buddhism" or anything else that would compromise my faith.
Can you clarify this for me?our grandmaster has the christian priciples which he shares with the temple, the foundation if you will.
no one is required to believe in the faith.
my sifu does not, altho we have lengthy discussions on the topic of religion.
lengthy... :eek:
he does what he needs to be the martial arts practitioner he is today.
gm and sifu are very good friends, but chrisianity is not forced on my sifu or any other member of our temple.

it's like the example i gave earlier, you can send a kid to a christian school and even tho they choose not to believe they'll be allowed to go through the school and eventually graduate. some may even be geniuses.

but they would get so much more out of life if they followed the faith.