Technical question: pls help !

[GodofGamblers]

Dadi, I'm hoping you can answer this one, but I'd like input from anyone who can help.

I have been boxing for years, just as a hobby, but basically I figured I had the main punches down pat. Basically I just work on combos and actually focus more nowadays on the more ethereal aspects of boxing, slipping, pulling back, bobbing and weaving, etc., but the other day, something happened that blew my mind.

A guy I was sparring with corrected me on my right uppercut. I put my body into an uppercut and lift my back heel as i connect, swiveling my body into it. He told me there is no need to move at all! in fact, he doesn't use his body at all just his shoulder. I didn't believe this was capable of producing much power, but he amazed me with the amount of power he could get without using his body and without using his arm ! His feet stayed immobile as well.

In fact, his arm barely moved an inch. The trick to generating power is to roll the shoulder into the punch. IN a clinch, he holds his right only about an inch or two from his opponent and then rolls the shoulder backward, around and then up into the punch. We worked on it while I held the focus glove and I was really shocked at the power he was getting into it without using his body or even moving his arm! Most of the movement was by a circling movement of the shoulder.

Now this was a revelation to me because, like most people I think, I use my sholders laterally: using a jab to set up a straight (or an unusual technique I like, to do a straight left: left jab, straight right and then , swinging the shoulders back to the original position with a straight left).

My point is that all my shoulder movement is lateral , left/right. Suddenly I realized that I was only working on one axis, if you know what I mean. Using the shoulders on a vertical axis opens up a new world of possibilities.

The only problem is that I seem unable to execute the same technique no matter how many times he showed me. I'm just not used to moving that way.

I hope this isn't too technical or anything, but I know you love the technical questions, Dadi, so let me ask you: have you seen uppercuts like this before, and how can I master them? I'm afraid that this is in fact some basic skill that everyone has but that I have simply missed all these years !

[Jonathan Randall]

A guy I was sparring with corrected me on my right uppercut. I put my body into an uppercut and lift my back heel as i connect, swiveling my body into it. He told me there is no need to move at all! in fact, he doesn't use his body at all just his shoulder. I didn't believe this was capable of producing much power, but he amazed me with the amount of power he could get without using his body and without using his arm ! His feet stayed immobile as well.

.[/I]

Now this was a revelation to me because, like most people I think, I use my sholders laterally: using a jab to set up a straight (or an unusual technique I like, to do a straight left: left jab, straight right and then , swinging the shoulders back to the original position with a straight left).

My point is that all my shoulder movement is lateral , left/right. Suddenly I realized that I was only working on one axis, if you know what I mean. Using the shoulders on a vertical axis opens up a new world of possibilities.

The only problem is that I seem unable to execute the same technique no matter how many times he showed me. I'm just not used to moving that way.

I hope this isn't too technical or anything, but I know you love the technical questions, Dadi, so let me ask you: have you seen uppercuts like this before, and how can I master them? I'm afraid that this is in fact some basic skill that everyone has but that I have simply missed all these years !


It is a different technique - not an improvement over what you already know. One is a snap punch, the other a thrust. It is true, with significant amount of practice and conditioning you can develop a relatively powerful rear-upercut using only your shoulder, but it is nowhere near as powerful, IMO, as what the SAME person could do using his or her whole body as you have been doing. Also, the full body movement sets you up perfectly for throwing a left-hook w/o any further wind-up.

I don't know your MA background, but think of the difference between a thrust kick and a snap-kick. The snap works well for quick targets of opportunity and to set up stronger techniques, but the thrust kick is a fight stopper. This is an imperfect analogy as the snap-kick is a more valid technique, IMO, than the shoulder-only style punch - which I don't recommend.

I wouldn't throw away what you already know and are proficient in, just ADD the possibility of throwing a quick right uppercut in the way this other boxer did. For myself, I will stick with the full body motion.

[GodofGamblers]

Thanks for your answer.

So, it is a well known technique? I'm surprised I never came upon it before. I will keep working on it then. It has potential, esp. in the clinch!

Yes, I understand the analogy perfectly.

Thanks again.

[Jonathan Randall]

Thanks for your answer.

So, it is a well known technique? I'm surprised I never came upon it before. I will keep working on it then. It has potential, esp. in the clinch!

Yes, I understand the analogy perfectly.

Thanks again.

My formal experience is limited to boxing in my university days, and, IIRC, such a thing was simply considered an extension of a regular punch thrown with less preparation and on the quick. I think it was understood that some techniques, such as the upper-cut could not always be thrown (especially in the clinch) with the same wind-up and body commitment. However; I would still think of it as a different technique (or different class of techniques) and not replace one with the other. I certainly don't practice it that way (I have a bag in my bedroom), without the pivot, I mean. My worry would be that I missed a fight-stopping punch because I failed to put my body into it due to practicing a shoulder-snap instead of the full pivot. Also, for Self-Defence I practice the heal-hand (modified right upper-cut) followed by an elbow striked (modified left hook) and failing to put my body into those would be a bit like hitting somebody with a bee sting. What do you do to a bee that stings you? You kill it. Therefore, If I am forced to defend myself, I want as much advantage as possible and I am unwilling to practice something that may get me a point in sparring but has no real chance of dropping a determined assailaint. As it is, unarmed is chancy at best to begin with.

[GodofGamblers]

I agree with your points as they are well thought out.

I think I will work on this technique to add to my repertoire. It may not be as powerful, as you say, but in a corner, against the ropes or a wall, etc, it could be a nice surprise to give my opponent!

I'm having trouble rolling the shoulder in that way, though. It's going to take a while before it becomes usable.

[ezzthetic]

This is a useful technique, but nothing special. It doesn't replace other punches. It's a good thing to be able do in the clinch or during infighting, but I'd rather just create space with a shoulder bump and a step back and let rip with a full fledged uppercut. Mostly I use it to set up a step to the outside (aggressive counter-pressure!) and then put a more powerful blow behind it. This is good if you know how to move close to an opponent without leaving any space between you and actually avoiding the clinch.

I do have a sparring clip somewhere where I use this technique on the inside, I'll try and put it up and you can tell me if it's the same thing. The key to getting it down is just staying relaxed and don't think about punching. Think of it as an exaggerated shrug. Get the feeling down and then work on punching with it. Systema people are good at these types of punches, though I'm not saying that's what their method of punching is all about. This is a hard thing to describe over the internet, but since you have someone in the gym who can the technique, perhaps it's enough to get points across.

EDIT: I'd like to add that most likely a slight slumping or dropping down is necessary to be able to aim the punch properly. Unless the guy is literally holding you up, you can always drop a little weight on you back foot before letting the punch go.

[GodofGamblers]

This is a useful technique, but nothing special. It doesn't replace other punches. It's a good thing to be able do in the clinch or during infighting, but I'd rather just create space with a shoulder bump and a step back and let rip with a full fledged uppercut. Mostly I use it to set up a step to the outside (aggressive counter-pressure!) and then put a more powerful blow behind it. This is good if you know how to move close to an opponent without leaving any space between you and actually avoiding the clinch.

I do have a sparring clip somewhere where I use this technique on the inside, I'll try and put it up and you can tell me if it's the same thing. The key to getting it down is just staying relaxed and don't think about punching. Think of it as an exaggerated shrug. Get the feeling down and then work on punching with it. Systema people are good at these types of punches, though I'm not saying that's what their method of punching is all about. This is a hard thing to describe over the internet, but since you have someone in the gym who can the technique, perhaps it's enough to get points across.

EDIT: I'd like to add that most likely a slight slumping or dropping down is necessary to be able to aim the punch properly. Unless the guy is literally holding you up, you can always drop a little weight on you back foot before letting the punch go.

Sure, I'd love to see it in video. It's hard to conceptualize thru writing alone.

Is it a shrug or a rolling of the shoulder? You're right, my sparring partner said you have to slump down before doing it... I still can't get it at all though. I will keep you up to date on my progress.

Thanks for all your help over the years, by the way, Dadi. When friends ask me who my trainer is, I often include your name because I consider you to be one of my trainers.

[ezzthetic]

Sure, I'd love to see it in video. It's hard to conceptualize thru writing alone.

Is it a shrug or a rolling of the shoulder? You're right, my sparring partner said you have to slump down before doing it... I still can't get it at all though. I will keep you up to date on my progress.

Thanks for all your help over the years, by the way, Dadi. When friends ask me who my trainer is, I often include your name because I consider you to be one of my trainers.

Thanks! That's a great compliment and it's been my pleasure. Your questions often make me think of different things than normally.

It's a shrug and you sort of roll the shoulder forward once your at the top of it. In one fluid motion of course. I'd just concentrate on getting that snappy feeling before doing anything special with it. It's like snapping a towel.