View Full Version : Comprehensive Jujitsu
You know in Karate you alway hear the term, complete system. It denotes a system that contains I assume, the full spectum of fighting. Punching, kicking,
throws, a little of every thing. I have heard that about Hwarang Do.
Not knowing a lot about the different Jujutsu, aikido, aiki jutsu, styles. Is there one Throwing/Grappling art that is more comprehensive than the rest?
Techniques, Weapons, and such.
I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will come around but whenever I hear something along the lines of ‘complete system’ I watch my pocket as it seems it’s only used as part of a slogan or advertisement.
It will depend what you mean by throwing/grappling art as well. In terms of just this, Brasilian Jiu Jitsu may be more comprehensive, however while because they can focus so much on this aspect, they will tend to spend a lot less time teaching upright techniques including striking and weapons.
If you are looking at trying one out it will really depend on what you are after. They will each have a different balance of different aspects. It’s also the same with other martial arts such as karate that what is taught and how can differ between different styles of the same art, as well as individual schools and instructors. Some schools may also focus more on sport orientated techniques or self defence.
You know in Karate you alway hear the term, complete system. It denotes a system that contains I assume, the full spectum of fighting. Punching, kicking,
throws, a little of every thing. I have heard that about Hwarang Do.
Not knowing a lot about the different Jujutsu, aikido, aiki jutsu, styles. Is there one Throwing/Grappling art that is more comprehensive than the rest?
Techniques, Weapons, and such.
In terms of old-schools, this is a sogo bujutsu (comprehensive school), or one that contains fuzoku ryuha (assimilated schools) so it wouldn't necissarily be a "school of Jujutsu" in of itself. As for ones that are "more complete" than the other it is hard to say, but some schools have more than others in their curriculum and it is not necissarily Jujutsu that defines them. Examples of this are Takenouchi Ryu, Araki Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, and so on. However, this does not mean that they are viable for modern self defense or necissarily what one is looking for.
It will depend what you mean by throwing/grappling art as well. In terms of just this, Brasilian Jiu Jitsu may be more comprehensive, however while because they can focus so much on this aspect, they will tend to spend a lot less time teaching upright techniques including striking and weapons.
I would think BJJ would be the opposite of what he means by comprehensive as BJJ is mostly ground grappling, not takedowns, not striking, and not weapons.
There are BJJ schools that do that, though I have never seen one yet (unfortunately).
. . . Is there one Throwing/Grappling art that is more comprehensive than the rest?
Techniques, Weapons, and such.
A point of clarification regarding weapons is that defenses against weapons, i.e. disarms and controls, are commonly taught in jujutsu in which the defender / person demonstrating the technique is unarmed to start a given technique. However, techniques in which the defender primarily uses a weapon offensively and/or defensively are typically classified as one of the sub-schools other than "jujutsu" in a comprehensive school, or as a standalone school altogether (there are standalone jujutsu schools, standalone sword schools, etc.). In Okinawan martial arts, are "karate" and "kobudo" similarly considered separate arts/schools that are complementary in nature and in some cases assimilated under the banner of a comprehensive school?
That said, in modern jujutsu schools (i.e. created after the samurai class was abolished in Japan, whether in Japan or abroad; having verifiable direct lineage to the old schools of jujutsu in Japan, or partially or wholly derived from other martial arts and labeled "jujutsu"), you typically see training in striking, joint-locking, throwing/takedowns and groundwork against armed and unarmed attackers, though from what I've seen there's usually not equal emphasis within a given system in all these areas.
Ultimately, you'd need to visit a school and try out the curriculum to see if it meets your personal definition of "comprehensive jujitsu."
The Tsutsumi system has a large range of unarmed techniques as well as variations of those techniques, changing techniques when things go wrong, sword kata, kneeling kata, stick techniques (the stick is used for defence via locks), the use of the jo for defence, mariki kusari and hojo jutsu.
Does that count as a "completee system"?
The Tsutsumi system . . .
Greg --- Based on your description, it's a sogo bujutsu vs. strictly jujutsu system, as outlined by Russ. Sure does sound comprehensive though! What would you say are the defining characteristics of Tsutsumi-ryu?
Dylan Z. Thomas
03-28-2008, 12:17
While you can have a fairly comprehensive system, I think there will allways differnces from Dojo to Dojo with in the same sysem. Some will emphasise different elements over others.
Take what we do, We do Icho yama Ryu Aiki Jujutsu (Modern blend of Miyama Ryu, Tecinouchi Ryu, Daito Ryu, Aikdo and Judo) and Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu.
In Icho, there are strikes, but our Sensei does not emphasise them.
he'll teach it but he personally is not a big user of atemi.
Maybe because he found, for him, that it was best to get ahold of the perp (he was a cop) and start the torquing and bring him down.
He does not suggest that we have to fight like him, he teaches the sysatem, but does have his favorites and hois preclivities.
So for me a comprehensive system should allow for some major differnces between students personal fighting style.
It's also why I crosstrain, I love my Ryu and Kai but nothing has everything, nothing is all encompassing, so I fill the holes as I see best, so I train in Pekiti Tarsia and Pencak Silat for the mobility,striking, weapons and power it brings to my own personal expression of combat art.
While you can have a fairly comprehensive system, I think there will allways differnces from Dojo to Dojo with in the same sysem. Some will emphasise different elements over others.
This is a very good point. Teachers and their teaching styles will vary and different elements will be emphasized. This is due to a variety of reasons, namely at the teacher's discretion and what they feel comfortable with. I have had teachers that are more open to variation than others, some that have a different approach to teaching and the way they present things. Many come away feeling confused- most of the time beginners will feel confounded because what is being shown from one teacher is different from the other. This is a normal pattern of the way things are in learning the martial arts and I believe and it should not be taken too seriously but instead, absorbed as a whole.
-R
Togakure ryu ninjitsu consist of nine ryu. It is very comprehinsive. In that those nine ryu contain a meriad of throws locks and the such. The only problem I have is that it is not taught at least where I was training in a more modern realistic manner.
I recently started training again, with my old sense. it has been thirteen years sence I have trained in his dojo.
when I commented that his teaching has changed quite a bit sence I last trained. He confessed to me that even though he was a 4th degree black belt . Really didn't know s..... This leaves me to believe Hatsumi just gives those belts away. (Of course for cash)
My class had about 20 black belts in it, out of those maybe four really knew the system, and they were the ones who had been to japan and trained with my instructor.
Don't get me wrong I think the world of the guy, great person. i just don't think you can learn a martial art from one month seminars a year.
Togakure ryu ninjitsu consist of nine ryu.
Actually, no it doesn't. Togakure Ryu is one out of the nine ryu taught at the Bujinkan, Gembukan and the Jinenkan. :)
Actually, no it doesn't. Togakure Ryu is one out of the nine ryu taught at the Bujinkan, Gembukan and the Jinenkan. :)
Your so right my mistake. It's been a long time ago.
Your so right my mistake. It's been a long time ago.
No worries. :D Happens!
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