View Full Version : Structure of a womens self defense class??
freedomfighter04
11-16-2007, 21:07
Hey all I would like to get some feed back on what to include in a womens self defense class.
I know basic punches and kicks some escapes and holds but would like to know what else.
I would like to try and seperate this from Tae Kwon Do the style I teach.
Webmaster
11-16-2007, 21:14
What makes you believe that you are qualified to teach a self-defense course?
I'm curious as well; have you ever been involved (teaching or helping out, I mean) in any kind of women's self defense course yourself? Teaching a women's self defense program is not the same as teaching a martial arts class.
I think you should do some reading in this forum specifically the following;
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=16594
Aaron, do yourself and the women you would possibly teach a big favor and reseach this subject well and listen to those much wiser than you. Chances are you will do more damage than good if try teach womens self defense without a proper background. TKD is great art but does not qualify you to teach a womens self defense class.
It appears you asked this question once before. Did you think our advice would change?
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14552
Ouch. That is a violation of the forum rules - starting a new thread with the same topic.
Aaron, I have to admit, I hate the term "women's self-defense course." How about "Self-defense course but I will only teach it to women." Sorry, I don't think women have special needs. There are some pretty damn wimpy men out there who are small, weak, and meak who need a self-defense course too.
Do you have extensive experience defending yourself? Have you trained under someone who has had extensive self-defense experience? Do you train in a system that is noted for being a solid self-defense system? These are hard questions you have to ask yourself before taking on the responsibility of empowering others with real, valid self-defense instruction.
Good luck!
Jeff Cook
Aaron, Here is my club's (http://sim-trainer.com/) website. Check out the class syllabus and see how they are structured to reinforce basic skills at each level and build on them. More importantly, note that the classes are taught by police officers and in some cases by some of local public prosecutors. I believe this important because it offers at least some direct experience with actual situations and the results of what people did.
You may be able to find a good group like this near you and learn from them what defense really is like.
I really strongly agree with Jeff's dislike for the idea of a women's self defense class because it usually revolves around trying to teach a person how to fight someone. That is almost certainly going to fail.
Self defense for everyone:
1) Stay away from trouble
2) Run away from trouble (preferably to the nearest police station).
3)When trouble finds you remember your job is to stay alive. Stay alive until you can use #2 above.
4)Do to trouble whatever needs done so you are not hurt or killed. Use any means necessary. The see #2.
At the earliest moment call 911 and get help to deal with trouble.
Peace
Dennis
I really strongly agree with Jeff's dislike for the idea of a women's self defense class because it usually revolves around trying to teach a person how to fight someone. That is almost certainly going to fail.
That is a good point. I am not a huge proponent of them although I certainly have hosted my share of women's MAs seminars.
Not specifically sd, but more mainstream intro level to MAs - "Hey, this is what we do." The seminars seem to go over well, and many of the women have signed up for classes. I am just getting ready to tackle the same in HKD. Still working on that one as a lot of women seem to have problems being touched, let alone thrown on the mats. :up:
A lot of women prefer all female settings. I have not a clue why. On the subject of my HKD dilemma, I have garnered the interest of a group of women who work at the City Jail. These women are hot to learn. Even they don't want to come out and learn with the guys though. Their reason may be their boss is in my regular class.
http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15023
...A lot of women prefer all female settings. I have not a clue why. On the subject of my HKD dilemma, I have garnered the interest of a group of women who work at the City Jail. These women are hot to learn. Even they don't want to come out and learn with the guys though. Their reason may be their boss is in my regular class.I have noticed that, too. I have been the 'uke' for several women's SD classes. What I have noticed is that most have a victim's aura around them. There is one woman in particular that I recall: she was young, maybe early twenties, very good physical condition and very adept at striking the bags and the takedowns that were taught. She had the heavy and austere 'goth' make up and a few tattoos. Yet she seemed to trying to overcome or hide a vulnerability. the other women were all from bad domestic situations and really looked the part. but this one would almost seem intimidating. Yet it was something in her eyes and the way she avoided eye contact that told me she was just like the others: programmed by someone to be a victim.
Teaching that group conventional 'self defense' seemed almost counter productive because it was almost certainly going to end up with the boyfriend more violent in retaliation and/or the woman even more defeated spiritually when they fail to defend themselves. Finally, it also is teaching them that the way of the world can only be violence and they must be a participant in that horror and be as equally brutish as the person who is persecuting them. They must have a position of moral strength or we are only choosing which side to help.
I think that most women tend to prefer all women settings because they realize, at least subconsciously, that they will be fighting a degree of social programming if not in themselves, then in others while trying to learn in the class.
Jonathan Randall
11-18-2007, 04:00
I have noticed that, too. I have been the 'uke' for several women's SD classes. What I have noticed is that most have a victim's aura around them. There is one woman in particular that I recall: she was young, maybe early twenties, very good physical condition and very adept at striking the bags and the takedowns that were taught. She had the heavy and austere 'goth' make up and a few tattoos. Yet she seemed to trying to overcome or hide a vulnerability. the other women were all from bad domestic situations and really looked the part. but this one would almost seem intimidating. Yet it was something in her eyes and the way she avoided eye contact that told me she was just like the others: programmed by someone to be a victim.
Teaching that group conventional 'self defense' seemed almost counter productive because it was almost certainly going to end up with the boyfriend more violent in retaliation and/or the woman even more defeated spiritually when they fail to defend themselves. Finally, it also is teaching them that the way of the world can only be violence and they must be a participant in that horror and be as equally brutish as the person who is persecuting them. They must have a position of moral strength or we are only choosing which side to help.
I think that most women tend to prefer all women settings because they realize, at least subconsciously, that they will be fighting a degree of social programming if not in themselves, then in others while trying to learn in the class.
Those are very astute observations. Personally, I'd prefer someone in such a situation (or mindset) to read "The Gift of Fear" and "Strong on Defense" rather than take a short-term self-defence class - no matter how well run and with what great intentions.
I'm to the point that I recommend those books and rape prevention classes held or endorsed by the local sheriff's department and NOT immediate SD or MA training.
OTOH, colleges often run (mind did) semester long Physical Education class in self-defense. As a judo student, I was once uke for them and boy were they motivated and all but a handful projected real confidence. Those who continued to the second semester level course, IMO, had better skills upon completion, both physical and mental than most folks at the time who took a "couple of years" of something.
Original Poster: I've had several women friends want me to teach them "self-defence" and I've generally demurred (I have tried to teach them to leap or skip away from grabs, an art in itself, as Tedd Truscott's article recommends, though). Instead I've recommended resources put on by folks who have specialized skills and experience in this. The days are over when simply studying the martial arts and "having a belt" puts potential students in awe of you and you could re-package sport TKD (or other style) as "women's self-defence".
OTOH, this topic is a bit of a dead horse. There is some fine reading on the subject already to be had here simply by using the search button. We're lucky to have so many active LEO's, Armed Forces personnel, and extremely experienced folks to inquire with. Not knocking you, just giving you my two cents.
This brings up a VERY IMPORTANT sub-topic - that of women's vulnerability.
I know a lot of women. There is a very shockingly high number of them who claim to have been sexually assaulted. I would say the percentage is 80%.
What is up with that? Is this some deep dark secret of our society?
Have they all been sexually assaulted? I seriously doubt it.
Are women "playing the victim?" I seriously doubt that too. I think these women actually believe - and/or WERE - sexually assaulted.
This is a baffling, sad, and shocking thing to me. Frankly, I treat all potential female students and female students as sexual assault victims; I just automatically make that assumption and treat them accordingly.
This is something that really bothers me, for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any insights?
Jeff Cook
Jonathan Randall
11-18-2007, 05:52
This brings up a VERY IMPORTANT sub-topic - that of women's vulnerability.
I know a lot of women. There is a very shockingly high number of them who claim to have been sexually assaulted. I would say the percentage is 80%.
What is up with that? Is this some deep dark secret of our society?
Have they all been sexually assaulted? I seriously doubt it.
Are women "playing the victim?" I seriously doubt that too. I think these women actually believe - and/or WERE - sexually assaulted.
This is a baffling, sad, and shocking thing to me. Frankly, I treat all potential female students and female students as sexual assault victims; I just automatically make that assumption and treat them accordingly.
This is something that really bothers me, for obvious reasons. Does anyone have any insights?
Jeff Cook
Yes, I do, but I'm not about to post it on an Internet forum. Let me think about it for a while and I'll send you a PM.
I do think you're making a wise choice in your assumptions. Perhaps they have not been a victim of sexual assault; but they are potential victims.
Let's face it, most young men can avoid the majority of dangerous street situations simply by checking their egos and walking away without trying to get the last word in. With many dangerous situations for females it has absolutely nothing to do with what they do - it has to do with what they are. Through no fault of their own, a certain segment of the population will either target them, or take advantage of any opportunity to harm them that arises.
Bottom line, I have yet to meet one women over twenty who has not had at least 3-4 inappropriate and aggressive advances upon her with at LEAST one of which that would be considered criminal assault.
Jeff Burger
11-18-2007, 06:16
I have yet to meet one women over twenty who has not had at least 3-4 inappropriate and aggressive advances upon her with at LEAST one of which that would be considered criminal assault.
Ditto that
DragonMind
11-18-2007, 14:59
And folks wonder why I recommend every woman carry a weapon and learn to use it :confused:
I need to ask here - do we mean violent groping that does not accept "no" or "get off me" and tries to force sex?
Or do we mean socially retarded, inappropriate hitting on someone?
Both are ugly but I think there's a big difference between the two. I think that both get grouped under the word "sexual assault" as well so I'm not always sure which is meant in a conversation like this one.
I need to ask here - do we mean violent groping that does not accept "no" or "get off me" and tries to force sex?
Or do we mean socially retarded, inappropriate hitting on someone?
Both are ugly but I think there's a big difference between the two. I think that both get grouped under the word "sexual assault" as well so I'm not always sure which is meant in a conversation like this one.
Good question. All of the above? Actually, I think your first definition falls under the heading of rape.
I have also heard women say they were sexually assaulted when a man [in a crowded area] bumps her breasts. :confused:
I don't think it is out of line to say that some of the more questionable claims cheapen the severity of those who have experienced real trauma.
Is this what you all were thinking? And you were just waiting for a woman to say it? :up:
Jonathan Randall
11-19-2007, 02:52
I don't think it is out of line to say that some of the more questionable claims cheapen the severity of those who have experienced real trauma.
Is this what you all were thinking? And you were just waiting for a woman to say it? :up:
No, it is not what I was thinking as I wrote:
Bottom line, I have yet to meet one women over twenty who has not had at least 3-4 inappropriate and aggressive advances upon her with at LEAST one of which that would be considered criminal assault.
So, my, admittedly non-scientific, personal statistics, which is what set this numbers ball rolling, made a distinction up-front between the different types of scenarios. None are acceptable events, but I recognize the difference between boorish behavior deserving of a butt-whoopin' and legally defined criminal assault with the intention of rape or serious physical harm.
I'm in a little bit of a box here, as my personal numbers are based upon either friends, co-workers or family and I don't feel at liberty to give instances. However; I do recognize that experiences you hear about from female friends either in, or interested in, the martial arts is a bit skewed because the "sample" has already been filtered and weighted towards those seeking, perhaps as the result of personal experiences, such training.
Eliz, I am certainly not afraid to clarify. My personal experience is that about 80% of the women I have known claim to have had their genitals fondled by an adult as a kid, or were raped as a kid or adult (i.e. penetrated and/or forced to have oral sex).
That is what I mean by "sexually assaulted."
Jeff Cook
Eliz, I am certainly not afraid to clarify. My personal experience is that about 80% of the women I have known claim to have had their genitals fondled by an adult as a kid, or were raped as a kid or adult (i.e. penetrated and/or forced to have oral sex).
That is what I mean by "sexually assaulted."
Jeff Cook
I have not [personally] heard those percentages. That is extraordinarily high. I agree.
I have heard quite alot, but I have never had 80% of my female students divulge that kind of information to me. EVER!
I find it to be quite disturbing Eliz, and frankly I just don't know if it is true. I do think the real percentage is awfully high, though.
Jeff Cook
Jonathan Randall
11-20-2007, 06:09
I find it to be quite disturbing Eliz, and frankly I just don't know if it is true. I do think the real percentage is awfully high, though.
Jeff Cook
While it does seem quite high a percentage, it is not an unrealistic one when you consider that by the time they are twenty, the average person has been around thousands of people in close settings such as family gatherings, school, church, sports activities, hobbies, etc.
Now take the thousands of people that young women has been around over the years and figure the percentage of the population that are predators, and it would be a bit surprising if the figures for molestation or attempted weren't very high.
Eliz, one thing to consider as to why several of us guys have heard about more situations from our female friends than you have, is the phenomena that sometimes a person who hase experienced real emotional trauma is more likely to confide in an understanding person of the opposite sex than they are to their peers. Many, in my experience, fear the judgement of other women and comments such as "... what were you thinking in that situation. Didn't you realize what could happen...".
Given that the two Jeff's have both chimed in with high percentages and that both are the type of guys a person could safely confide in, I think their experiences, sadly, are much closer to the true percentage than anything else.
Back to the thread starter's question:
The concerns that are being brought up in this thread show that you have a great opportunity to help your female students by offering workshops or seminars or simply guest speakerships from folks who deal with the results of this trauma and can offer young women (and older!) real, experience driven advice on dealing with this issue. Guest speakers aren't too hard to find, especially among the non-profit groups that address the issue of sexual assault and its traumatic results.
I have not [personally] heard those percentages. That is extraordinarily high. I agree.
I have heard quite a lot, but I have never had 80% of my female students divulge that kind of information to me. EVER!
That is a high number. Probably skewed by the situations of the people involved as well as what is defined as an assault. In any case, the real number is very high and I think it is due mainly to social programming that makes people think some act is acceptable when it is not.
I'm with Jeff's definition of assault. I hope to GOD that those numbers are exaggerated!!!
Whenever I read or hear about these kinds of statistics I tend to want to divide by 2 or 3 because I just don't believe that some of what goes into those statistics is actually assault.
I don't know how many times I have heard girls complain that they were "assaulted" if someone smacked them on the butt, tried to kiss them but struck out, stared too long down a low cut shirt, copped a feel while dancing with them, or did some Benny Hill type prank.
None of that is cool but it is not even close to someone pressing forward after being told "no" or "get off of me" and forcing a woman to do something she does not want to do.
As for what kind of MA skills ought to go into training women to avoid Jeff's definition of assault, I'm thinking (in no particular order) wrist leverages (to break free), some BJJ guard work (sweeps or at least pulling guard while still dressed and poking out eyes if all else already failed), some of that really fast wing chun handwork to pop someone in the face for an escape opening or a chance to dig out the pepper spray, and some semi-full contact training of some sort to build (not break) confidence to use these tools. And learning to run in those silly shoes women like to wear.
I don't see heavy boxing, kicking, or judo being high on the list.
That's just my thought on the subject.
I am wondering why Aaron, the thread starter, has not responded to any of the questions posed to him.
Jay Bell
11-20-2007, 13:49
I wondered the same earlier. It baffles me that he's been told that he shouldn't have students, now he wants to expand to something he has absolutely no business going forward with.
Maybe that's why?
Jonathan Randall
11-20-2007, 20:07
As for what kind of MA skills ought to go into training women to avoid Jeff's definition of assault, I'm thinking (in no particular order) wrist leverages (to break free), some BJJ guard work (sweeps or at least pulling guard while still dressed and poking out eyes if all else already failed), some of that really fast wing chun handwork to pop someone in the face for an escape opening or a chance to dig out the pepper spray, and some semi-full contact training of some sort to build (not break) confidence to use these tools. And learning to run in those silly shoes women like to wear.
I don't see heavy boxing, kicking, or judo being high on the list.
That's just my thought on the subject. :bow:
That's a great mixture of skills for the physical aspect of self-defence!
As to Judo, though, a number of my co-ed classmates in my college Judo classes became very proficient at osoto-gari and o-goshi - which I think could also be extremely useful.
I don't know if it is right but, the statistics I remember hearing cited most often are 1 in 3 women and 1 in 5 men have been sexually assaulted. Somewhere I have where that comes from and I'll try and track it down and post the citation and what sexually assaulted means. These numbers sound very high to me. But, whatever the numbers actually are though they are way too high.
Jay Bell
11-21-2007, 08:53
I don't know if it is right but, the statistics I remember hearing cited most often are 1 in 3 women and 1 in 5 men have been sexually assaulted. Somewhere I have where that comes from and I'll try and track it down and post the citation and what sexually assaulted means. These numbers sound very high to me. But, whatever the numbers actually are though they are way too high.
Legally speaking, sexual assault is any unwanted sexual contact. This can be groping all the way to much more severe happenings.
JiuJitsuRabbit
11-21-2007, 12:45
This brings up a VERY IMPORTANT sub-topic - that of women's vulnerability.
I know a lot of women. There is a very shockingly high number of them who claim to have been sexually assaulted. I would say the percentage is 80%.
Jeff Cook
I would agree with this figure, but not as in childhood happenings. Most girls I know fall into three catigories:
a.) Been Violently attacked/raped 10%
b.) Been in a situation they did not feel able to escape or prevent. I'll call this "Passive Rape" as there was no violence of threat of harm to cause the act, but it was unwanted. 30%
c.) Had someone grab thier rear, get pushy, ect beyond flirty, but more in a creepy unwarrented way. All the rest.
Eldest daughter is in town. Went out last night to local club with friends. All are old enough to drink. My daughter's friend bumps another girl. Bumped girl decides she wants to fight. My daughter apologizes and smooths things over. However, My daughter's friends are now upset and egg on the fight. My daughter is very upset because she is being forced into confrontation she does not want by idiot friends. Manages to non-violently extricate everyone but is still upset this morning. She is considering re-inventory of friends.
I told her that she did her job when she got the friends the chance to leave. When they re-escalated the conflict she still should have left because she is under no obligation to get hurt or killed for people who thoughtlessly put her in that situation. Tell them she is leaving, then go. The smart will follow. I am pretty sure she will do it. I sure hope so.
Jonathan Randall
11-22-2007, 21:42
Eldest daughter is in town. Went out last night to local club with friends. All are old enough to drink. My daughter's friend bumps another girl. Bumped girl decides she wants to fight. My daughter apologizes and smooths things over. However, My daughter's friends are now upset and egg on the fight. My daughter is very upset because she is being forced into confrontation she does not want by idiot friends. Manages to non-violently extricate everyone but is still upset this morning. She is considering re-inventory of friends.
I told her that she did her job when she got the friends the chance to leave. When they re-escalated the conflict she still should have left because she is under no obligation to get hurt or killed for people who thoughtlessly put her in that situation. Tell them she is leaving, then go. The smart will follow. I am pretty sure she will do it. I sure hope so.
True. Glad she's alright. Looks like you taught her well both in terms of de-escalating and having the judgment to re-evaluate her friendships with folks who so recklessly disregard her safety.
Eldest daughter is in town. Went out last night to local club with friends. All are old enough to drink. My daughter's friend bumps another girl. Bumped girl decides she wants to fight. My daughter apologizes and smooths things over. However, My daughter's friends are now upset and egg on the fight. My daughter is very upset because she is being forced into confrontation she does not want by idiot friends. Manages to non-violently extricate everyone but is still upset this morning. She is considering re-inventory of friends.
I told her that she did her job when she got the friends the chance to leave. When they re-escalated the conflict she still should have left because she is under no obligation to get hurt or killed for people who thoughtlessly put her in that situation. Tell them she is leaving, then go. The smart will follow. I am pretty sure she will do it. I sure hope so.
Richard,
Sounds like she did the right thing and I am glad she did not listen to her friends.
Women can be a very close sorority, however. Don't be surprised if it all dies down with no real changes in friendships.
Bars, bumpings and bad attitudes. It is a shame your daughter had to deal with that during a time of reunion with friends and family.
Bars, bumpings, and bad attitudes have unfortunately allowed guys like Erik and I to make thousands of dollars in our side-jobs.
Richard, I am ALWAYS very glad to see people like your daughter with common sense and a spine de-escalate a difficult situation. What your daughter did is very difficult; it takes a high degree of maturity and skill. I hope she realizes that. Tell her that one old experienced bouncer you know says "Great Job!!!"
Also, she should be reminded that good people do stupid things sometimes.
Jeff Cook
Thanks all, Very reassuring words. Thanks, Jon. I like your perspective, Jeff. I'll let her know. Eliz has a sobering point about retaining old friends. The way I explained it is in terms of circles: Some folks are in a closer circle that, because of their behaviour, allows them access to more personal and trusted events in your life, for whom you have higher expectations. There are some folks you might have over to watch a ball game (sic) that you would never go with to a bar.
Bars, bumpings, and bad attitudes have unfortunately allowed guys like Erik and I to make thousands of dollars in our side-jobs.
Thousands?!?!?!? :eek: Sheesh, I've been working in the wrong places!
Have I ever described my A-B-C-D theory of bar fights?
It's dark and crowded and Person A accidentally bumps into Person B who spills a startlingly cold, wet drink on Person C who thinks Person D did it (intentionally). So, now C & D are going at it and A and B don't even realize what the argument is about.
I sometimes call it the A-B-C-D-E theory because somehow things wind up even more convoluted, like Person E is a friend of the "affronted" Person C or D and gets more riled up than the wet Person C.
People are strange.
Oh, side-note about friends like that.
Give them ONE chance to pull their heads from their rectums.
Explain that:
1) it is not their business to push a fight, that's only up to the person involved. It IS their duty to protect you, though, if they want to get involved somehow.
2) By encouraging the fight they are not protecting you (their friend). Instead, they open up some risk to meeting lots of nice doctors, nurses, coroners, lawyers, police, and the ever-so-charming bouncers who love the chance to see how good their MA skills are by breaking people. Fighting drunk customers make such a nice crunching sound when they hit the pavement... you don't want your friend to make that kind of noise.
3) It is worth slowing down to figure out what actually happened. Lots of strange, random, "rude" accidents happen in a pub all the time. Sometimes someone is just clumsy. Simple apology and maybe replacing someone's drink may make a new friend through a display of character (though they'll like you next time they see you, not this one, as they're still wet, sticky and annoyed).
If the friends don't get it, don't go out with them anymore. Tell them directly that they are a safety risk, they are more dangerous than the thugs in the bars. That ought to sober them up.
Such a statement is not without social risk - I moved out from living with two friggin' morons over such things as this. One of whom I had played college sports with for two years - I thought we were friends.
Thousands?!?!?!? :eek: Sheesh, I've been working in the wrong places!
Remember Erik, I was consulting; running a couple of crews at a couple of different locations for 15 years - for a period of three years I had three bars for three nights minimum every weekend, with an added special event a few times a month too.
Jeff Cook
Jonathan Randall
11-23-2007, 17:54
Remember Erik, I was consulting; running a couple of crews at a couple of different locations for 15 years - for a period of three years I had three bars for three nights minimum every weekend, with an added special event a few times a month too.
Jeff Cook
Wow, you must be good not to be so torn up!
Seriously, with the newer generation of flip lock-blades that are so easy to conceal and deploy, you're both skilled and lucky to not have been seriously hurt.
What was your experience with bladed weapons and in what ways have your experiences modified the manner in which you instruct your female students (thread topic)? Thanks.
Another point to be made here, for the original poster, this is why simply having MA training doesn't qualify you to teach women's self-defence and the reality of violence - not when there are truly experienced folks out there such as Jeff who can do so correctly.
Jonathan, thanks for the kind words!
I teach women EXACTLY the same way I teach men. I see no reason to teach anything different. I may teach a different strategy at times, or help individuals develop their own strategy. Someone who is quick and skilled will approach a situation differently than someone who is slower but very powerful. But the techniques and principles of combat are universal, and not based upon gender.
Regarding security work, we try to control the environment as much as possible by always checking for weapons and contraband at the door. Obviously that does not guarantee a weapons-free environment.
Some rules I follow: assume everyone has a weapon. Always insist during an interview, extraction, or some other encounter that the person keeps their hands visible and/or restrained. If they reach into a pocket or purse during an encounter, make space and shout out an alarm to your partners. Don't be afraid to use your tools; that collapsible baton and pepper spray is not on my belt for looks.
If the bad guy gets his hand in his pocket before you can intervene, and if you are close and fast enough and have made the decision to close the gap instead of make space, trap his hand in his pocket while pummeling him with knees, headbutts, your other hand, or by slamming him into the wall or furniture. It ain't pretty, and it has to be fast and brutally aggressive. Again, loud verbal communication with your partner is extremely important; you can trap while your partner delivers "corrective percussion techniques" and/or restrains. This HAS happened a few times during my gigs.
A strong, well-organized, well-coordinated and professional presence may discourage knife-carriers from employing their weapon. This has happened many times. We have approached individuals who actually avoided us long enough to pull out their knives and ditch them, so as not to be caught/confronted while in possession of a weapon - in spite of the fact that it is always obvious we are not law enforcement personnel.
Frankly, every single confrontation I am involved in, which has been literally hundreds, I am EXTREMELY concerned that a knife, ice-pick, or similar weapon will come into play. We have disarmed/confiscated probably a dozen knives or puncturing weapons over the years. One of my friends and students bought an illegal weapon for me last week that is being sold locally in a convenience store. It is a refillable butane lighter with a switchblade inside. Very devious and dangerous. The pressing of a small button on the side snaps and retracts the blade in a blink. It looks like a normal lighter. It costs six dollars. It is cheap, cheaply made, readily available, and deadly. The only reason I asked him to pick one up for me is so I could show it to my personnel and students, so they will be aware. I collect such weapons for that purpose only.
So far, knock on wood, none of my people have been successfully cut or stabbed with a weapon. One in-house bouncer we were working with at a club (we were hired to augment) was stabbed in the kidney by a female during a fight, probably with a nail file. Fortunately it did not go deep enough to penetrate the kidney. None of us even knew it happened during the fight, and we are not one hundred percent sure who did it (but we recall a female hitting him with a hammer-fist in that kidney, so we assume it was her). It didn't even slow the bouncer down; he thought that he had simply been struck there during the fight. The blood on his shirt we noticed after the conclusion of the fight, and at that time we discovered the stab wound. After every altercation, no matter how minor, we do a buddy-check for wounds.
Does that about cover your questions? ;)
Jeff Cook
When I was bouncing, I wish I had worked with you, Jeff. :bow:
You're my kind of professional/thug - deliberate, decisive, motivated. :)
Jonathan Randall
11-23-2007, 22:58
Does that about cover your questions? ;)
Jeff Cook
Very well, thank you! :bow:
I figured tactics and teamwork had to be involvled because nobody, no matter how skilled and talented, is fast enough to be involved in hundreds of situations and come out ok unless they've stacked the deck in some manner.
Only in Hollywood, Jonathan! :laugh:
Erik, you are my kind of thug too. ;)
Jeff Cook
I think it's cool that we are on a women's forum and have somehow gotten the thread down to four guys talking about 'Road House'. :laugh:
Erik, you are my kind of thug too. ;)
Thanks, Kitten.
See you in LA.
:wink2:
:laugh:
Love you too Snuggles! :laugh:
I think it's cool that we are on a women's forum and have somehow gotten the thread down to four guys talking about 'Road House'. :laugh:
See what happens Richard? We try to thread-drift in the Women's forum, and it turns us gay! :laugh:
Jeff Cook
Love you too Snuggles! :laugh:
See what happens Richard? We try to thread-drift in the Women's forum, and it turns us gay! :laugh:
Jeff Cook
Just for the record - you said that, I did not. :D
Now if you all start talking designer shoes.....?!
Now if you all start talking designer shoes.....?!
Jimmy Choo, Gabriella Rocha, Chanel, Christian Louboutin...:D
Jimmy Choo, Gabriella Rocha, Chanel, Christian Louboutin...:D
:laugh: :laugh: Got me!
Try this for awkward: I'm at work and one of the other guys is one of our grappling buddies. We are talking about the workout the night before and one of the women in the office hears us talking about we got each other in a rear naked choke. She is young and single and so is he. She had the look like 'They are all married or gay." and we laughed till we were about to gag.
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