MJER & MSR lineage issues

[SamHaLe]

http://www.ekisuikan.com/newpage8.html

This interesting website claims that the 9th headmaster HAYASHI, Rokudayu Morimasa adopted the forms (the so called Omori-ryu) which his father HAYASHI Gozaemon invented as the beginner rank. HAYASHI, Gozaemon Masayoshi was master chief in Tosa. In later times, MATSUYOSHI and YAMAKAWA (MSR) made up a figure, OMORI Rokurozaemon.

They also state that during the time of the 14th headmaster (HAYASHI, Yadayu Masamoto), YAMAKAWA Hisazo stole the book of secrets of Iai and Ise school of etiquette from the HAYASHI family, thus he was excommunicated. He fabricated this book into the Shinden-ryu book of secrets. These can be said as one of the "4 biggest forged documents" in Japanese history. The 15th headmaster TANIMURA, Kamenojo Takakatsu expressed regret about the stolen book of secrets. In later times, he was made up as the origin of the Tanimura and Shimomura branch. MATSUYOSHI Sadasuke (MSR) dispatched YAMAKAWA as a spy to the HAYASHI family. NAKAYAMA Hakudo (MSR) attempted a take-over of Tosa Iai school and was expelled by Oe Masamichi (MJER).

WAKAURA, Jiro (was apprenticed to FUKUI), established the Ekisui-Kan and now is the Chairman of the Board, All Japan Iai and Jyujyutsu Federation. He uncovered how the Omori school distorted the history to fake its legitimacy. He also discovered that Iai forms have absorbed some features from the Ise school of etiquette.

If this man from http://www.ekisuikan.com/newpage8.html has good proof (old documents etc), this could mean bad news for MSR and others.

Can anyone confirm this? Are there any other claims that are kept secret from westerners?

With kind regards,
Peter Van Bruystegem

[David Craik]

What bad news in particular would it mean for MSR that a man who died in 1776 stole a 'book of secrets'?

If koryu weren't stealing techniques from each other they would have written straightforward training scrolls instead of pictures of tengu fighting, obscure descriptions that would be useless to anyone outside the tradition, and nebulous waza names like 'Flower Wheel'. There would be little need to take keppan either.

Etiquette? In what system of Japanese etiquette does one sit in seiza indoors - at a tea ceremony no less - wearing a katana on your hip in the first place?

If MSR practicioners - or any other koryu exponents for that matter - wanted to cease training en masse because of a scandal, I'm fairly sure they could find something more recent than the Tokugawa shogunate. ;)

This seems like a wee bit of a troll to me.

[Charles Mahan]

This seems like a wee bit of a troll to me.

It didn't to me the first time he posted it, but this is at least the third forum it has been posted on and it is starting to have a "fan the flames" sort of feel to it now.

Peter can you please explain your purpose for posting this across multiple forums?

[SamHaLe]

It didn't to me the first time he posted it, but this is at least the third forum it has been posted on and it is starting to have a "fan the flames" sort of feel to it now.

Peter can you please explain your purpose for posting this across multiple forums?

Of course. Because different forums are used by different people, I thought to share it with people from E-budo, Kendo World forums and BudoSeek. I've got different reactions from these 3 forums and learned allot from that. The discussed website contains completely new information for me and others... On E-budo f.e. there is a Budoka working near by the particular Dojo in Japan and planning to take a look...

Greetings,
Peter

[Mekugi]

Can anyone confirm this? Are there any other claims that are kept secret from westerners?


I would say there are as many secrets kept from the Japanese budoka as those from other countries.