Time and Space (1)

[rockstream]

As a young kid, I was very much interested at the time machine.:embarrass Maybe that dream made me major in physics later at the university. Now, as an old martial artist, still I 'm interested in time and space matters. But in totally different ways, like religion, meditation, or taoism practice.

Personally, I respect and envy Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of Aikido.:bow: He declared that " I am the universe." at his late days. I believe he really felt like that when he uttered like that. I think the ultimate goal of seeking is to having the feeling of oneness with the universe like him.

In the way of this pursuing, I think to understand time and space and to know where I am in this time and space is somewhat very helpful. Of couse, the methodology is up to each one's preference, as we know.

As I am a Korean, I've been accessing this with a traditional Korean way. I really hope to share ideas about this with fellow martial artists. Also I sincerely ask a good favor to correct English terms at my expressions. It's very arduous work for me to discuss this kind of topic in English. Not easy even in my own tongue.:bow:

We say there are five basic elements. Tree, Fire, Earth, Iron and Water. These five are diveded into ten by Yin and Yang. Like Yang tree Yin tree, ..... and Yang water Yin water. These ten factors are existing in the sky as ten pure floating ethers. We call these "Sip Kan", meaning ten shields.

And these ten factors are also existing in the earth as twelve mixed states. We call these "Sip Yi Gee", meaning twelve supports, or branches. These twelves are symbolized usually by animals for representing the character of each Gee. The mouse, the ox, the tiger, the rabbit, the dragon, the snake, the hose, the sheep, the monkey, the rooster, the dog and the swine.

Sip Kan cycles in their own order from Yang tree to Yin water endlessly. Sip Yi Gee also cycles in their own order from the mouse to the swine endlessly.

And these two groups are associated into sixty types, called "Yuk Sip Kap Ja", meaning a sexagesimal system, like a zodiac.

This sexagecimal system is used to represent time, space and people who exist in these two surroundings. I am more interested in people and time, so I'll go mainly on the treatise of the relationship between people and time.

This is just a prologue of our discussion. Next time let's start from the Sip Kan.

Thank you.

[Musubi Dojo]

Your English is excellent sir.

Very interesting information, thank you for sharing. :D

Do you believe that Ueshiba Sensei achieved the Buddhist state of enlightenment and that he used his art as the vehicle to achieve it?

"Aikido is love"

[rockstream]

Your English is excellent sir.

Very interesting information, thank you for sharing. :D

Do you believe that Ueshiba Sensei achieved the Buddhist state of enlightenment and that he used his art as the vehicle to achieve it?



Thank you for encouragement. I certainly believe Ueshiba Sensei achieved that state. It is said that martial practitioners attain that state much easier than others. Buddha was also known as a great warrior. Darhma, an Indian monk who founded Shaolin temple of China, is also another example, as we know.

[Jeff Burger]

As far as you English your writting is better than mine (I admit laziness).



I might have something to offer as far as discussing time.
There are different types of time. There is mechanical time and ego based time.
Mechanical time being man made / how we measure time.
Ego based is the continuity of memory that uses ego as a reference point.
A couple of examples / expression for ego based time are " a watched pot never boils" and "Time flies when you are having fun".

I think working time is a missed opportunity in alot of people's training. Most people think of speed only in the idea of how fast they cover distance.
They miss out on seeing so many little ways to steal time from their opponent
and how to be more time effecient in themselves.

[Musubi Dojo]

So you're talking about a perception of time as opposed to "real" or constant time?

A lecture passes oh so slowly when it's boring.....
The period of time flies by when you are engaged in an entertaining movie...

In sparring, slowing down the rhythm and then exploding...


As far as you English your writting is better than mine (I admit laziness).

I might have something to offer as far as discussing time.
There are different types of time. There is mechanical time and ego based time.
Mechanical time being man made / how we measiure time.
Ego based is the continuity of memory that uses ego as a reference point.
A couple of examples / expression for ego based time are " a watched pot never boils" and "Time flies when you are having fun".

I think working time is a missed opportunity in alot of people's training. Most people think of speed only in the idea of how fast they cover distance.
They miss out on seeing so many little ways to steal time from their opponent
and how to be more time effecient in themselves.

[Jeff Burger]

So you're talking about a perception of time as opposed to "real" or constant time?

Exactly, percieved time is a good way to say it.

[rockstream]

Exactly, percieved time is a good way to say it.

Thank you for your encouraging. Very little chance to use English except here.;)

I think time perception is very much influenced by breathing. When you stop breathing, the time is also felt stopped, like in horrible shock. When you are in very relaxed mood, breathing is also slow, specially the outgoing breath, every moment of time touches your perception very delicately. Enjoying the present. In nervous moment, breathing goes fast, specially the inhaling, with periodic stopping interval. Time goes so slow.

And I think the three steps distance is neutral. Within this three steps means you are in fight. Out of this three steps means you are out of fighting. I feel this time and space perception while I am usually in Kumdo(Kendo) fight more strongly.

[Jeff Burger]

So you are thinking time and space and closing?

Something I got away from that alot of people do was referring to that distance as the "gap" (dead space where nothing can be done). If you know there is a conflict and who the opponent is there is no "gap".
There is body language, words....that can still be used.

[rockstream]

So you are thinking time and space and closing?

Something I got away from that alot of people do was referring to that distance as the "gap" (dead space where nothing can be done). If you know there is a conflict and who the opponent is there is no "gap".
There is body language, words....that can still be used.

Not easy to follow what you've got in your mind. Pardonez-moi.:bow:

One of the big problems in competition, the opponent does not allow the gap you mentioned, even I want to have that moment of gap for some reasons. He or she reads me, another words, he or she feels oneness with me.
That is what I mentioned earlier Ueshiba Sensei achieved. That is also Hapki or Aiki means, I understand.

[Jeff Burger]

He or she reads me

Thats why I say there is no gap, there can be distance but it is not dead space. They may read you, you may read them either of you could be sending false signals....
If you are not good at reading you may want to attack, if you are very good at reading you may want to defend.
If your false signals / fakes look real you may be able to steal time away from your opponent or them to you.

[Musubi Dojo]

I think time perception is very much influenced by breathing. When you stop breathing, the time is also felt stopped, like in horrible shock.

This sounds like anxiety or possibly an adrenaline dump to me.


And I think the three steps distance is neutral. Within this three steps means you are in fight. Out of this three steps means you are out of fighting. I feel this time and space perception while I am usually in Kumdo(Kendo) fight more strongly.

So are measuring time by distance?

[torbjork]

So are measuring time by distance?
That's as good a way as any. As the universe is constantly expanding, any object is increasing its distance from other objects at a rate which at the moment is increasing. Hence, on a universal scale time (as measured by the speed at which galaxies move away from each other) is speeding up.

If we look at a sparring match, time could be said to be flowing more quickly when the players engage one another, since the distance between them change rapidly, whether reduced or increased. When the players are stationary, trying to entice the other into attacking, time flows slower since the distance between them does not change very rapidly.

Am I making sense at all? :karate:

[Jeff Burger]

You sure know how to take the fun out of hitting people.

[torbjork]

You sure know how to take the fun out of hitting people.
What is this "fun" you speak of? :D

[Hasuji]

This is a very interesting thread. I come from a celtic background and spent many years trying to better understand time and distance or space. I want to think about this more and then post but I hope you guys keep this going. We also have 5 elements but unlike some Asians, metal was not one of them. They are simply wind, water, earth, fire and the void, much like Musashi sama's five rings or spheres.