View Full Version : A Father's Reaction
A father's reaction to his studly little boy having his butt kicked by a clueless little girl.
The very young competitors are not segragated by gender. They are mixed girls and boys. I mean the very little ones - like 5 year olds.
So, out come the little ones to spar. All the parents are gathered around like a herd of rabid dogs SCREAMING encouragement to their kids. I hate officiating this age group. :(
A very studly little guy is paired with a tiny little girl who is just smiling from ear to ear, eating up all the attention she is getting from the sidelines. She just smiled through the entire match, seeminly oblivious to the sparring match.
The little girl really didn't do anything the entire match but keep her hands up and dance around smiling. She avoided being hit (still smiling), and would occasionally throw a punch or kick that landed (still smiling). The little boy was Mr. Technique/Mr. Serious - he just kept missing her. He was all business.
So obviously, smiley girl wins. The boy's father goes ballistic! "You got beat by a GIRL!!!" I think to myself, is that a sin?
So what are your feelings (as parents, instructors, practitioners)? Are boys suppose to win because they are boys? Would you be ashamed of your boy if he lost to a girl?
Funny but my son is a wrestler. Girls are increasingly being used to fill the lower weight catagories. Lets face it, it is not that uncommon for an 18 year old girl to weigh under 100 pounds - but for an 18 year old boy it is a struggle. Consequently, more and more girls are appearing in High School Wrestling. My son is towards the mid-high weights so there really are no girls in his division, but since this happened (sparring incident), I have often wondered how I would feel if my son were pinned by a girl.
AllanJGAnderson
03-10-2008, 04:03
"You got beat by a GIRL!!!" I think to myself, is that a sin?
Just a harnless expression to get the kid's blood boiling. Embaressing to the boy and the girl involved probably, but in the same sense I'm sure little miss smiles takes great pride in beating a boy. If I was a five year old girl and I beat sone boy with kooties, I'd be more proud than if it were another boy. So really I think it's a two edged sword. As a Soldier I see alot of women that should NOT be in the army and they make it easy to say "all women in the army are like that" but truth be told, some of the most squared away soldiers I knew in other posts were female, and when I was in AIT the record for high PT was a female, which usually means nothing (sine the standard is lower) but she had more push-ups and sit-ups than any male in our company. (**also brings up the point that with enough effort anyone can meet the male standards for PT *** [no more digression]**)
I had a buddy in high school who lost a wrestling match to a girl, he never lived it down, just society I guess.
Jonathan Randall
03-10-2008, 04:35
I see it as a false pride, ego thing. I have no problem admitting that I lost several Judo matches to a girl at that age (5-8 years old). Also, in college, a co-ed 5th kyu in PE Judo class cleaned my then brown belt clock. My problem, not hers (although I suspect, in retrospect, that she had some other MA background I wasn't aware of).
Hurrah for the little girl! :t2:
Jeff Burger
03-10-2008, 06:02
So what are your feelings (as parents, instructors, practitioners)?
I feel bad for the boy, his dad is a jerk.
Are boys suppose to win because they are boys?
Well as they get older and get stronger that strength is going to increade their odds of winning, but there are no guarantees.
Would you be ashamed of your boy if he lost to a girl?
At that age no.
wildwills
03-10-2008, 07:09
Technique is not gender based or gender specific. I myself was reminded of that years ago during my first week of BJJ when a girl caught me in an Omaplata from the guard. I didn't get mad per see, but just frustrated with myself for not being able to detect her hip movement as she kept doing it to me like 5 times in a row....:laugh:
That kid's Dad just needs to grow up and that little girl should be told "Good Lob"! It's obvious who was paying more attention in class...:D
:D If my son was pinned by a girl during an athletic event...I'd think he would prefer my staying out of it. LOL!
Funny but my son is a wrestler. Girls are increasingly being used to fill the lower weight catagories. Lets face it, it is not that uncommon for an 18 year old girl to weigh under 100 pounds - but for an 18 year old boy it is a struggle. Consequently, more and more girls are appearing in High School Wrestling. My son is towards the mid-high weights so there really are no girls in his division, but since this happened (sparring incident), I have often wondered how I would feel if my son were pinned by a girl.
But seriously...the situation described in the original post just seemed so 'wrong' on so many levels. I don't understand the point of having 5 year olds 'psuedo-spar' in the first place...and dad needed a lesson on the spot.
I have to agree that the boy's father was somewhat of a jerk.
Most of the parents of this age group can say and do the darndest things. :rolleyes: In the past there have been incidents of little boys crying when they get hit by their opponent (girl or boy). That always brings about a rash of crybaby comments from the fathers as well.
The mothers are not immune from crazy comments, but I will say it is overwhelmingly the fathers.
A tough age to judge in forms is 13 year old girls. A 13 year old girl can look like a 8 year old little girl or an 18 year old young woman depending on her maturation. I remember a father screaming from the sidelines, "There is no way that girl is 13 years old - she has bigger ***** then my wife." I was like T-M-I on the wife comment, buddy.
:D If my son was pinned by a girl during an athletic event...I'd think he would prefer my staying out of it. LOL!
But seriously...the situation described in the original post just seemed so 'wrong' on so many levels. I don't understand the point of having 5 year olds 'psuedo-spar' in the first place...and dad needed a lesson on the spot.
I don't understand these young guns sparring either. Their parents pack them from head to toe in every piece of optional equipment imaginable - they move like little Sumo Wrestlers in training. :laugh: I guess it is to get them used to it at a young age. I will say the quality of competition SHARPLY increases by age 9-10. There is only a small window of opportunity to just be a kid. By 9 or 10, these kids are GOOD!
Dad was a jerk. I can picture this whole thing in my mind so well...
Dad with his "spare tire" who couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag is screaming from the side lines. All while trying to hold the video camera in one hand and hot dog in the other. I've seen this a few times at some events. Depending on my mood, I make sarcastic remarks to the dude while the film is rolling, so my audio is on tape. :up:
I have always been lead to believe that girls grow faster than boys at those low ages. In other words, it's not uncommon for a girl to be stronger, faster or whatever than the boy when 5 years old. If the girl actually pays better attention to her martial arts instructor, which can often be the case, it would not surprise me at all for her to win and do so in a lopsided fashion.
There was a female that kickboxes at an amateur level semi regularly. I was sparring her, and she drilled me with a kick in the solar plexus, completely knocked the wind out of me. Not realizing my dilemma, she continued to pound on me until she realized I wasn't fighting back... It can be humbling.
wildwills
03-10-2008, 10:22
I don't understand these young guns sparring either. Their parents pack them from head to toe in every piece of optional equipment imaginable - they move like little Sumo Wrestlers in training. :laugh: I guess it is to get them used to it at a young age. I will say the quality of competition SHARPLY increases by age 9-10. There is only a small window of opportunity to just be a kid. By 9 or 10, these kids are GOOD!
Haha...that brings back memories. When my family was doing Kenpo, my son would always take it very easy on the girls. When they started tagging him pretty good and he started to complain, I told him he needed to work on his footwork and either block or just step out of the way. Eventually he figured it out and his footwork go tmuch better.
Girls are biologically stronger than boys. Girls have a lower infantant mortality rate than boys. Girls tend to be bigger than boys and are stronger until puberty. Girls also make better martial arts competitors until around 14 or so. Women have better muscular endurance. When we had little ones I could carry my kids for about 5 minutes before my muscles would kill me. My wife could carry those kids all day. I think it is because female muscles produce less latic acid. Women live longer than men.
It takes strong women to raise real men!
The little kids name wasn't 'Obama', was it?
torbjork
03-10-2008, 17:35
Just a harnless expression to get the kid's blood boiling
I disagree - it implies that boys are naturally better at everything, especially physical exercises, than girls, and that it's shameful for a boy to perform worse than a girl. Comments like these are part of what makes girls and women think they can't be tough and capable, and conversely make boys/men think they can't be artistic or sensitive (without football being involved in some way). Why does the kid's blood need to be boiling, by the way? If he lost fair and square, that's it - go home and practice, do better next time.
Parents make twits out of themselves at kids' sporting events worldwide though, so it's a pretty widespread problem.
The little kids name wasn't 'Obama', was it?
:laugh: Now THAT is funny!
Parents make twits out of themselves at kids' sporting events worldwide though, so it's a pretty widespread problem.
No, I don't imagine any one place has a capital on the crazy things parents say and do at competitions.
I think if I ever write a book, it will be a comedy of all the goofy and zaney things I have heard/seen/experienced at sporting events, Violin competitions, Ballet competitions, and of course Martial Arts competitions. As I am a die hard Erma Bombeck fan, I will have to study up as I like her style and delivery. :D
DragonMind
03-11-2008, 13:30
Women live longer than men.Married men die sooner because they want to. ;)
RA Miller
03-11-2008, 21:25
Years ago, Eliz, I was having my JJ students play at sumo (it's the best basic training for using balance and momentum). One of the very macho, very experienced young studs got his *** kicked 3 for 3 by a young lady.
He quit the class. Furthermore, he explained to me that he was quitting because I was violating biblical ethics by teaching women to fight. "God" wanted women to be meek and subservient.
What could I say? Except, "You have a four year old daughter, right? I'll see you in about ten years. When it comes to your own daughter you'll want to be damn sure she can beat a man."
He started training again and is making noises about when his daughter can start.
Rory
Webmaster
03-11-2008, 21:36
What could I say? Except, "You have a four year old daughter, right? I'll see you in about ten years. When it comes to your own daughter you'll want to be damn sure she can beat a man."
He started training again and is making noises about when his daughter can start.
Rory
Hehehe, being a father changes everything!
.....
He quit the class. Furthermore, he explained to me that he was quitting because I was violating biblical ethics by teaching women to fight. "God" wanted women to be meek and subservient......
From the Book of Judges. I like Judges some neat stories in that book..
Sisera’s whole army died 31 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n31) by the edge of the sword; not even one survived! 32 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n32)
4:17 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=17) Now Sisera ran away on foot to the tent of Jael, wife of Heber the Kenite, for King Jabin of Hazor 33 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n33) and the family of Heber the Kenite had made a peace treaty. 34 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n34) 4:18 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=18) Jael came out to welcome Sisera. She said to him, “Stop and rest, 35 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n35) my lord. Stop and rest with me. Don’t be afraid.” So Sisera 36 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n36) stopped to rest in her tent, and she put a blanket over him. 4:19 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=19) He said to her, “Give me a little water to drink, because I’m thirsty.” She opened a goatskin container of milk and gave him some milk to drink. Then she covered him up again. 4:20 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=20) He said to her, “Stand watch at the entrance to the tent. If anyone comes along and asks you, ‘Is there a man here?’ say ‘No.’” 4:21 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=21) Then Jael wife of Heber took a tent peg in one hand and a hammer in the other. 37 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n37) She crept up on him, drove the tent peg through his temple into the ground 38 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n38) while he was asleep from exhaustion, 39 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n39) and he died. 4:22 (http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Jdg&chapter=4&verse=22) Now Barak was chasing Sisera. Jael went out to welcome him. She said to him, “Come here and I will show you the man you are searching for.” He went with her into the tent, 40 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n40) and there he saw Sisera sprawled out dead 41 (http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Judges&chapter=4#n41) with the tent peg in his temple.
Oh BTW the brains behind the Israel victory at the Battle at Mount Tabor was Deborah. :laugh:
Years ago, Eliz, I was having my JJ students play at sumo (it's the best basic training for using balance and momentum). One of the very macho, very experienced young studs got his *** kicked 3 for 3 by a young lady.
He quit the class. Furthermore, he explained to me that he was quitting because I was violating biblical ethics by teaching women to fight. "God" wanted women to be meek and subservient.
What could I say? Except, "You have a four year old daughter, right? I'll see you in about ten years. When it comes to your own daughter you'll want to be damn sure she can beat a man."
He started training again and is making noises about when his daughter can start.
Rory
:eek: That blows me away!
As for his daughter, yes - it is funny how one's perspective changes as daughters become more grown up and independent.
Oh BTW the brains behind the Israel victory at the Battle at Mount Tabor was Deborah.
Great one, Ed. I always liked the Book of Ruth but you are right, there is no shortage of female heroines in the Bible.
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-19-2008, 11:59
I'll admit anyday that if a girl taps me I feel worse than if it was a guy who is stronger than I am.
At least with the guy I can blame my conditioning. With a girl if we are the same weight I know I out muscle her due to simple genetics. At the same time I wouldn't want to chastise my children for losing for any reason.
Jay Bell
03-19-2008, 12:37
I'll admit anyday that if a girl taps me I feel worse than if it was a guy who is stronger than I am.
At least with the guy I can blame my conditioning. With a girl if we are the same weight I know I out muscle her due to simple genetics. At the same time I wouldn't want to chastise my children for losing for any reason.
If BJJ has taught you anything, it should be the idea that technique wins over meat.
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-19-2008, 12:59
If BJJ has taught you anything, it should be the idea that technique wins over meat.
I've had plenty of Marines and such come through that I couldn't do much to if I wanted to. To the point where the curled me while I was arm baring them.
I am in the camp of athletism beats technique. Someone who out conditions me has an infinately easier time winning that someone with the same shape as me but moderately better technique.
Besides, I never said I was any good at BJJ.
Sounds like you are ready to work on strategy. You should know by know that the set matters more than anything else.
BTW, Sensei Palhares is coming to Dayton in April. I'll tell him what you think. :D
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-19-2008, 14:42
Luiz left where I train about 1.5 years ago now. I quit soon after and haven't really trained since.
I really need to quit my job to get my life back.
That will bring tears to his eyes. I'll let you know what we do.
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-19-2008, 15:06
That will bring tears to his eyes. I'll let you know what we do.
I seriously doubt Luiz would remember me by name even though I was there all the time. Classes had grown to epic proportions around the time he moved to Florida. His son on the other hand would. I trained with Caesar often. That boy is a machine btw.
Otherwise, my job keeps me on travel too much to do anything at all in life. I could post a whole thread on it. It drives me crazy.
If BJJ has taught you anything, it should be the idea that technique wins over meat.
Whereas athleticism and conditioning should never be underestimated, I would have to agree with the arguement in favor of technique. Above all else, timing is crucial. Sometimes a pinch of luck isn't bad either against an evenly matched opponent. ;)
I agree that people have their entire lives to experience the division of the sexes. Berating a young child in such a fashion was uncalled for.
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-20-2008, 07:39
Technique vs the unskilled, yeah it goes a long long way. Otherwise, in my experiance 50 ibs or someone who is just a great athlete is very diffucult to overcome even if you are better at the sport. This experiance is competition in BJJ, Judo, and Wrestling. Even watching MMA I see it all the time. One shot knock outs say alot about someone who is just stupidly conditioned. The other person doesn't even get a chance.
Now about the girl thing, I guess I am a bit bitter about mixxed gender competition. Everytime I had had the pleasure of a female partner that was seemed to be going full tilt in any grappling class, when I matched her energy she would complain about me to instructors. Which I find annoying since I try my best to treat everyone the same. Best being the best any human can do.
This all assumes that you accept a situation instead of defining it. In MMA or a contest you are comparing fitness an athleticism more than you are comparing technique. That is why they have weight classes, e.g. There are techniques that by their nature give an advantage to a person of one stature, size, etc. Some competitions give points for frustrating an attack so you can win without a throw, pin, or submission.
If you are going to go all out, then you first do away with time limits. Helio said that himself: given unlimited time and truly no-holds barred he believed he could defeat anyone in the world. I think so, too. So your strategy and tactics, which is the heart of martial arts, can offset the person of superior fitness, etc.
JiuJitsuRabbit
03-20-2008, 08:51
Give a self defence situation, which is the only situation with "no time limit" you have the worst time limits. The criminal has till the cops arrive, and you have till he produces a weapon or friends.
Competitions with no time limits are something I will likely never encounter since I do not know any I can enter. :laugh: Other than maybe a bar fight, but I think I will avoid those.
Jay Bell
03-20-2008, 10:50
Whereas athleticism and conditioning should never be underestimated, I would have to agree with the arguement in favor of technique. Above all else, timing is crucial. Sometimes a pinch of luck isn't bad either against an evenly matched opponent. ;)
I agree that people have their entire lives to experience the division of the sexes. Berating a young child in such a fashion was uncalled for.
I agree, Eliz. What a sick human being.
[QUOTE=Eliz Seuferling]
So what are your feelings (as parents, instructors, practitioners)? Are boys suppose to win because they are boys? Would you be ashamed of your boy if he lost to a girl?
/QUOTE]
I do not believe boys are supposed to win simply on the basis that they are boys. By no means would I be embarrassed if my son lost to a girl so long as he tried his hardest. Nor would I be embarrassed if my son lost to another boy so long as he tried his hardest.
In some sports out there I am certain that the strength factor comes into play. However, in the martial arts, I do not believe that this comes into play because most martial arts were developed in such a way as to be able to use your opponent's strength against them. So I do agree with the others here that technique overcomes strength.
I do know some narrow minded individuals in the martial arts that still believe that strength over comes technique but this usually occurs only if the technique is done improperly. Also, a majority of the time, it is the stronger person doing it improper because they have always had their strength to fall back on and consequently did not have the need to perfect the nuances of the technique. However, if they run into a stronger individual, then what? Their strength is of no use and they are going to lose? If that was the case then the martial arts would never have been developed because the stronger would always win so there would be no reason to even attempt to protect yourself.
Technique does work and it does overcome strength. Athletics are nice but superior technique (which includes the technique itself, timing, coordination, movement, etc.) will even overcome athletics. Most of the times when this becomes different is when you have rules that restrict things which allows strength an advantage. However, when you are allowed to use anything in your repertoire such as strikes, gouges, dislocations, biting, breaks, etc it is the technique that will overcome. I myself am not a large man but am able to win in a defense situation against assailants twice my size due to my technique. I am now also learning jiu jitsu and my head instructor is a female. The fact that I am a male does not mean I am better than her. She is easily able to overcome me, and others twice my size, due to technique because she is not an amazon woman.
The father on the side lines are like many I know that believe strength, and thus males, are superior in physical activities and shall win by that default. This does not make it true. This father has an ego and unfortunately is going to pass it on to his son so shame on him! Society has to overcome their egos and realize that strength is not everything.
This is just my humble opinion.
Cheers!
So what are your feelings (as parents, instructors, practitioners)? Are boys suppose to win because they are boys? Would you be ashamed of your boy if he lost to a girl?
/QUOTE]
I do not believe boys are supposed to win simply on the basis that they are boys. By no means would I be embarrassed if my son lost to a girl so long as he tried his hardest. Nor would I be embarrassed if my son lost to another boy so long as he tried his hardest.
In some sports out there I am certain that the strength factor comes into play. However, in the martial arts, I do not believe that this comes into play because most martial arts were developed in such a way as to be able to use your opponent's strength against them. So I do agree with the others here that technique overcomes strength.
I do know some narrow minded individuals in the martial arts that still believe that strength over comes technique but this usually occurs only if the technique is done improperly. Also, a majority of the time, it is the stronger person doing it improper because they have always had their strength to fall back on and consequently did not have the need to perfect the nuances of the technique. However, if they run into a stronger individual, then what? Their strength is of no use and they are going to lose? If that was the case then the martial arts would never have been developed because the stronger would always win so there would be no reason to even attempt to protect yourself.
Technique does work and it does overcome strength. Athletics are nice but superior technique (which includes the technique itself, timing, coordination, movement, etc.) will even overcome athletics. Most of the times when this becomes different is when you have rules that restrict things which allows strength an advantage. However, when you are allowed to use anything in your repertoire such as strikes, gouges, dislocations, biting, breaks, etc it is the technique that will overcome. I myself am not a large man but am able to win in a defense situation against assailants twice my size due to my technique. I am now also learning jiu jitsu and my head instructor is a female. The fact that I am a male does not mean I am better than her. She is easily able to overcome me, and others twice my size, due to technique because she is not an amazon woman.
The father on the side lines are like many I know that believe strength, and thus males, are superior in physical activities and shall win by that default. This does not make it true. This father has an ego and unfortunately is going to pass it on to his son so shame on him! Society has to overcome their egos and realize that strength is not everything.
This is just my humble opinion.
Cheers!
:thumbup1: great post.
Now about the girl thing, I guess I am a bit bitter about mixxed gender competition. Everytime I had had the pleasure of a female partner that was seemed to be going full tilt in any grappling class, when I matched her energy she would complain about me to instructors. Which I find annoying since I try my best to treat everyone the same. Best being the best any human can do.
I am sorry for those who have had whiney women as their opponents and that is the small limit of their exposure. I can assure you that does not represent all of us [women].
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