Katana wear

[David Craik]

I recently came across an intriguing post stating that samurai would sometimes wear their katana "edge (ha) down" when travelling to show they were not looking for a fight. It is post number 6 on this thread (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8998) about a rather odd vintage photograph.

It is further stated that swords were also worn this way while visiting a lord, however I have understood that daito were generally removed altogether when indoors.

Has anyone else ever heard or read of such a custom (wearing the sword ha down when travelling)?

[TonyU]

I recently came across an intriguing post stating that samurai would sometimes wear their katana "edge (ha) down" when travelling to show they were not looking for a fight. It is post number 6 on this thread (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8998) about a rather odd vintage photograph.

It is further stated that swords were also worn this way while visiting a lord, however I have understood that daito were generally removed altogether when indoors.

Has anyone else ever heard or read of such a custom (wearing the sword ha down when travelling)?
I also have a question, and I may be way out of my league here, but if such position existed were there any techniques practiced or developed to be able to draw and defend if by chance the need arose?

[Michael J. Bray]

:bow: David, the earlier sword, called the taichi was traditionnally worn edge down. This sword was frequently used in a one handed fashion. Later as the sword evolved and legnthened it was worn edge upand was worn thrust through the obi and became what we recognize as the katana. In some koryu the tsuka (handle) also legnthened to beter facilitate two hand use of the sword. There are a couple of really cool and good books out there on Samurai armor and weapons. I have two, but I'm not close to them at the moment to share the titles. Let me know if you want that information.

[David Craik]

Thank you Mr. Bray, though I am well aware of the differences between a tachi and a katana (mei on opposite side of nakago, jindachi-zukuri mounting, usually different blade geometry and tsuka angle, etc.). You may notice that the individual in the photograph is not wearing a tachi however. Nor would a fellow wearing a tachi have it edge down to show that he is no threat as in the post I referenced, he would have it edge down because that is the way it was worn. Also as the sword evolved from tachi mounting to buke zukuri it was not generally lengthened; but shortened - from 4 to 5 feet during the Koto Period to 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 feet in the Shinto Period. Though I appreciate your kind offer I wouldn't trouble yourself too much with the book titles, I likely have them already. ;)

Tony, in the MJER waza Kesagiri, the saya is turned prior to nukitsuke - the first cut being upwards and diagonal. I would not be surprised if other ryu have this or something similar as well. The sword starts in a conventional 'ha-up' position though. Bunkai for this is facing a swordsman whose sword is already drawn. With a twist of the wrist the sword could still be brought into play fairly quickly from a 'ha-down' carry if this were ever in fact used with a katana.

[TonyU]

Tony, in the MJER waza Kesagiri, the saya is turned prior to nukitsuke - the first cut being upwards and diagonal. I would not be surprised if other ryu have this or something similar as well. The sword starts in a conventional 'ha-up' position though. Bunkai for this is facing a swordsman whose sword is already drawn. With a twist of the wrist the sword could still be brought into play fairly quickly from a 'ha-down' carry if this were ever in fact used with a katana.
Thank you sir.

[Mekugi]

Never heard of such a thing myself. It could be something very off-center in Japanese Bushi culture, but it seems rather uncomfortable and impractical and begs "WHY?" as the big question. If you aren't looking for a fight, take off your sword and wrap it in some cloth - otherwise, it's just as easily drawn. I do not think things were as set in stone as most people like to think, but this photo looks like it was 'modeled". In other words, it's totally bunk.

BTW...ever seen a danbira? I wonder how one would carry one of those things. It's straight, thick and was used by inexperienced swordsman (usually criminals) to hack away at people.

[Toby Threadgill]

Hi Guys,

Japanese photos of the late Edo to early Taisho period cannot be taken as historical proof of much beyond that associated with photography. They were frequently taken by western photographers and sold as curios from the exotic east. Often these portrait photographers went around hiring commoners as models, then outfitting them willy nilly for aesthetic, not historical reasons. I have even seen a photo from this period of a "samurai" wearing his katana thru the obi on the right side and his wakazashi on the left. with the tsuka's crossing....LOL

As for the comment about wearing the sword edge up while traveling or visiting a lord, it doesn't pass scrutiny if you think about it. If such a thing were true, it would be ubiquitous, otherwise it would be pointless. I suspect it's another example of reverse engineered history by someone ignorant of actual bushi culture.

[David Craik]

I have a lot of old daguerreotype 'samurai' photos like this and they are pretty much all obviously staged. Mismatched armor, incorrect wear of items, etc. I figured the post referenced was nonsense, but wanted to check to see if anyone else had ever heard of such a thing before passing my usually hasty judgement. :D

[scruffysmileyface]

Tony, in the MJER waza Kesagiri, the saya is turned prior to nukitsuke - the first cut being upwards and diagonal. I would not be surprised if other ryu have this or something similar as well. The sword starts in a conventional 'ha-up' position though. Bunkai for this is facing a swordsman whose sword is already drawn. With a twist of the wrist the sword could still be brought into play fairly quickly from a 'ha-down' carry if this were ever in fact used with a katana.

Same in MSR, in the chuden level kata if I'm not mistaken. Probably the same kata (the name escapes me at the moment).