Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano

[Badjer]

I was wondering if anyone out there could clarify for me what Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano is? I have a general description but would appreciate it if it could be made clearer to me what it is exactly.
"Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano means chain of hand. This art is the empty hand translation of all weapons techniques in close quarters. Every natural weapons in the human anatomy are employed in this range of fighting. The trapping and destruction of the opponent's limbs is the priority in this art."
So in basic terms what is Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano? Also, what is the difference between the Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano and Dumog?
Thank you once more ini advance.
Cheers!

[loki]

badjer,

This is the second FMA topic post from you. I'm just curious as to the interest. Are you considering training or currently starting up training in FMA's?

On to the Kadena De Mano:

FMA training is hard to nail down because a drill name (Kadena De Mano) is also a conceptual/tactical application AND a tactical theory depending on which 'level' you are focusing on for discussion/practice.

At the drill level what you are asking about is basically a back and forth drill between two partners who feed each other training strikes which are parried and countered. In the beginning, it is like a freeze frame drill. As the students progress, it is more realistic in timing, and finally it progresses to 'controlled sparring'.

At the conceptual/tactical application level, basically, all the stuff that was 'pre-set' in the previous drill is broken out of the drill and the focus is on creating applications that end the fight instead of drill tricks that keep the game alive.

At the purely tactical theory level, Kadena De Mano, is a theoretical way of viewing a fight. Almost like a systematic 'school' that one would participate in to learn chess.

Basic translations for Kadena De Mano is either "Chain of hands" or "Chain of arms (weapons)." In either translation, the point is that there will always be some kind of back and forth between opponents and the goal is to find the gaps.


I was wondering if anyone out there could clarify for me what Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano is? I have a general description but would appreciate it if it could be made clearer to me what it is exactly.
"Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano means chain of hand. This art is the empty hand translation of all weapons techniques in close quarters. Every natural weapons in the human anatomy are employed in this range of fighting. The trapping and destruction of the opponent's limbs is the priority in this art."
So in basic terms what is Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano? Also, what is the difference between the Tanikalang Kamay/Kadena De Mano and Dumog?
Thank you once more ini advance.
Cheers!

[Badjer]

Paul, thank you once again for your help.

So this means that Kadena De Mano is simply the fighting between the two opponent's where they are both looking for the gaps or openings then? I understood it to be a sub set sort of like Dumog so I suppose i must have misunderstood that then.
Now is this back and forth movement that we are referring to simply for strikes as you were saying in your example or does this include the grappling aspect as well. In other words would Kaden De Mano apply to Dumog, for example, or would it be a totally different thing that could not be considered part of Dumog? Or would Kadena De Mano be the part of the FMA that allows the transition to occur before it becomes grappling (Dumog)? I am not sure if I am clear there. Here it goes again. Would Kadena De Mano be the trapping range where you are striking until you find the gap and then you transisit into your grappling where the fight might end or not depending upon the circumstances? Or you may end up trapping the person and decide not to grapple but because you have trapped him up he is a sitting duck as he gets a variety of strikes such as elbows, gouges, punches, etc?

As to answer your question about my interest in the FMA.

This is the second FMA topic post from you. I'm just curious as to the interest. Are you considering training or currently starting up training in FMA's?

I am not currently starting training in FMA but am looking more into it. I am considering it but right now I am at the research stage as you have probably figured out. Keep coming across all these terms and the explanations are sometimes vague so that is when I come here. I know from my experience here that if I need info coming here is a good start because someone always knows something as you are proving. I might end up doing it but I am doing my homework at this point in time. Until recently I wasn't even aware the Eskoda (Escrima/ Arnis/ Kali), or what ever you want to call it, had empty handed training. I know it must sound silly to you but all this time I knew it to be stick fighting, stick and knife, double stick, etc. I was sure that FMA had empty hand out there I just wasn't aware that it was in the art of Eskoda. So once I learned that my curiosity became peaked. The more I have looked into it the more it sounds like what I am looking for. I was looking for a very street wise martial art that had grappling in it and wasn't being too nice to the opponent. Not to say anything about any arts out there just my taste as you had said earlier. Also, I wanted one that could meld nicely with my own which sounds like FMA meld nicely from what other people I have spoken to have said. An added bonus is there is a fellow that teaches Eskoda near my place by the name of Dan Rutano. I will be watching his class 2 weekends from now. I have never actually seen Eskoda in person before. Or, rather, I have never seen it empty handed. He says he will answer my questions when I get there but I am the type that always likes to do my own homework as well.
If anyone else has anything to add feel free. The more the merrier.
Cheers!

[loki]

Paul, thank you once again for your help.

1. I understood it to be a sub set sort of like Dumog so I suppose i must have misunderstood that then.

2. Now is this back and forth movement that we are referring to simply for strikes as you were saying in your example or does this include the grappling aspect as well.

3. In other words would Kaden De Mano apply to Dumog, for example, or would it be a totally different thing that could not be considered part of Dumog?

4. Or would Kadena De Mano be the part of the FMA that allows the transition to occur before it becomes grappling (Dumog)?
!

1. Like I said, FMA's can be VERY confusing if you are looking at it from the outside sometimes. You are correct that Kadena De Mano is a specific 'sub set' IF you are at the phase of training where mastering the drill is the goal. Once you master the drills, then you break the pattern of the drills and it can, depending on your instruction, become just about anything you need it to be.

2. Generally, it starts with the "drill' phase and is primarily stand up and preset back and forth exchanges. Once you reach the 'break the pattern' phase, it can include Dumog as part of the whole. Again, it depends on your instructor and his specific system of training.

3. It starts as a 'totally separate thing' in most cases, but you could have a "Kadena De Mano" style of drill with Dumog techniques that would create a 'chain of events' where someone starts, you counter, he counters the counter and so on...

4. You are dead on. This is the point where most FMA's tend to stop applying "Kadena De Mano" to this phase of training, and start talking about 'Dumog' as a separate training focus.

For me (get ready to enter my convoluted thinking now:eek: ), terms like Kadena De Mano, Dumog, Baston, Espada Y Daga, Hubob Lubob, Ritic/Saltic, Abanico, work in the following training progression:

1. Master the drill/Pattern
2. Train applications based on the drill that illustrate why the drill/pattern is important to realistic situations.
3. Learn to 'improv' the drill/pattern in more realistic situations as the training progresses.
4. Reflect on the drill/pattern as a concept/tactic NOT just a specific physical movement set.
5. Research and Experiment with recognition/application of the conceptual level of the drill/pattern in other situations (Verbal Judo, Small Unit tactics, Sports, Chess....)


An example:

"Redonda" is a three strike pattern generally learned with sticks first. All three strikes focus on downward strikes that attack the same angle/side (a forehand downward hack w/Right hand, backhand downward hack w/Left Hand, and a final forehand hack w/Right that might all be delivered to the same side of the neck.)

Now, at first you just try to master the drill to get the pattern right.

Then, you learn some preset applications that are based on the general pattern.

After that, you learn to 'improv' or respond to random strikes with the pattern.

At this phase, you start recognizing and reflection on the pattern in other techniques and link "Redonda" to the conceptual idea of raining combination strikes into the same angle/target/zone in order to force a reaction.

Now it gets sort of "Big Idea-ish" IMO, but one day you will start looking at, say a hockey game and recognize the same tactic/concept of driving multiple, rapid, continuous attacks into the same place and say "Hey, that's what I do w/Redonda"....

let the headaches begin

[X_plosion]

To be honest, coming up with the most accurate description of a Filipino Martial Art concept or style would entail directly observing/asking the specific person who does what you're interested about.

Being that the Philippines has about just as many languages as it has provinces, overlap and same names for different things is highly probable.