Weapons Relevance.

[kodanjaclay]

What, if any, relevance do you find that weapons training has in your training program? How has it impacted your training?

[williamson]

I believe weapons have had a huge impact on my training. It's a whole different world getting hit with a piece of wood compared to flesh and bone. Training with weapons also corrects (and in most cases prevents) common mistakes.
Weapons are one leg of a three legged stool. With only two legs, your stool won't stand.

[kodanjaclay]

Thats a good observation. I think that my e ye hand coordination has gotten better because of weapons training, and I know my sensitivity has increased. Something about getting whacked with a Juc Do seems to do that :)

[Carl Jenkins]

Footwork... one of our instructors is also a 5th Dan in Kumdo. He teaches Kumdo on Fridays and normally at the lunch time classes on Tuesday and Thursday.

I make the effort to attend his class and since then have felt like my foot work and balance have improved. I know for sure that my arm strength has with the sword drills. :)

Carl

[Brett Dent]

Definitely hand-eye coordination, definitely footwork. But most beneficial for me has been:

1) Better awareness of the different angles that you can be attacked from. It forces you to really pay attention. And 2) a higher level of creativity. You can study martial arts to become a better "martialist" and a better "artist". I really think training with weapons brings these two aspects together.

Brett

[OldWarrior]

"What, if any, relevance do you find that weapons training has in your training program?"

In a world where 13 year olds have 9 mils, you may believe nothing is relevant when it comes to martial arts. But, I've put a lot of years into shotokan karate, european epee fencing and now kumdo and I really enjoy the sword arts. My frame of reference is not relevence to self defense but the shear enjoyment of weapon mastery and the sport aspects of training. Kumdo involves bouting and therefore you get a sense of the purpose of what you learn. 100 years ago they trained the same way, learned the same forms and had the same training. I guess one is either into it - or not.

[kodanjaclay]

I am a firm believer that nothing aids in the mastery of the self as does weapons training. Isn't self mastery always relevant?

[OldWarrior]

"Isn't self mastery always relevant?"

I would phrase the thought as follows: the serious pursuit of mastery over traditional highly regarded skills is always relevant.

I didn't start European fencing until I was 39. At 54, I have a significant level of skill developed after many years of taking lessons from a great maestro and consistent bouting. In the real world being able to hit a spot the size of a quarter, nine times out of ten, on an attacking forearm, is a pretty useless skill. But for me, knowing that my old body with all its current infirmities, can still perform techniques that were once highly regarded and prized - is more than enough. The discipline it takes to learn these skills carries over to everything one does. If you can accept that expertise at anything does not come easily and if you have the determination to dedicate yourself to learning something through consistent repetitive practice and humble subservience to someone who has the skills you seek- you will become a formidable person at whatever you set out to master.

Four months ago I started Kumdo training. I am 3 times older than most of the students in the class. They are all more fit, faster, have better vision, reflexes and flexibility. But, all of them together can't match my determination. My body may fail or limit my progress, but my spirit can't be conquered by any of them, regardless of their skill.

Yes, mastery of oneself is always relevant.

Gary Stern

[DanielMckee]

I would have to agree that self-mastery is an essential part of weapons training. Not only in weapons training but also in hand-to-hand training. If one doesn't have mastery over his/her own body and mind then how can someone ever expect to have mastery over an object that is not of his/her own body?:confused: You can't. I've been in martialarts since I was eight years old. I am now 22, I like to think that I have mastery over my own self by now. But every time I train I realize that I have not quite mastered myself... don't get me wrong I have a pretty good level of self-mastery, but I think that self-mastery is a life long pursuit. I think that there are always areas that could use a little work. Any comments???:)

[OldWarrior]

Meaning no disrespect and not diminishing the degree of skill that you have undoubtedly achieved over your many years of study - it is hard to accept that someone so young has achieved any degree of "self mastery". Part of the maturation process is the acceptance of responsibility for the lives of others who look to you every day for guidance and support and the successful meeting of that challenge. And while I don't know you and therefore have no right to judge you, it just seems to me that "self mastery" is substantially more than acheiving consummate skill over a physical activity.

[kodanjaclay]

Gentlemen,

AS per forum rules, you must sign your post with your real name.

I don't think that true mastery of the self can ever be achieved. I think it is more of a dynamic cascading process which requires the rest of one's life to accomplish.

Remember, one who believes himself to be a master is deluded (zen/taoist saying).


{Except for me, as we all know I am the supreme martial poobah }

hehehe

[DanielMckee]

I don't think that I'm even close to achieving self-mastery. And I agree with you that self-mastery is a life long endevor. I said that in my earlier reply.

I must agree with you that self-mastery is not only about your physical self but also about your mental, and spiritual self. I take no offense to what you said about, someone being so young having achived any level of self-mastery. I agree that I have a long way to go to get an extremely good amount of self-mastery.
When I say a pretty good amount of self-mastery, that that means that I believe that I have accomplished a litte bit of self-mastery. I said a pretty good amount because for my age, I think I've done pretty good on trying to master my self. By no means do I mean to sound conceited. I'm not. I'm pretty sure your level of self mastery far excedes mine. :bow:



Daniel McKee

[OldWarrior]

I can see that you are well on your way to achieving this elusive goal. Humility and dedication are important and difficult lessons to learn.

Gary Stern

[DanielMckee]

Thank you very much for the compliment.


Daniel McKee

[miguksaram]

I found that weapons training really helps not only eye hand coordination, but it also helps with empty hand techniques. We practice Arnis and Kali. The techniques used in that system convert to empty hand very easily. This helps expand our "arsenal" if you will. We also do sword and staff training as well. With those techniques we become creative with our bunkai, which makes the weapons training a lot more fun.

Jeremy

[DragonMind]

What, if any, relevance do you find that weapons training has in your training program? How has it impacted your training?

Unlike my Hapkido training, the Shaolin Kenpo I do today has used weapons defenses from day 1 of white belts. I think it is very relevant if you focus on real-world weapons = knives and sticks. That said, you need to learn how to use them OFFENSIVELY to be able to properly DEFEND against them. Most "weapons defense" techniques I've seen would get you killed in a real weapon fight. I've become an advocate of cross-training in arnis and knife arts like sayoc kali.

[Andrew Green]

Beating on each other with sticks is fun, that in itself is enough for me :D

I don't plan on getting in any street fights, so really having fun is my primary motivator on all accounts ;)

[Paul B]

I have to say that for me personally, weapons training helps in every aspect of my empty-handed training. I have found that everything from perception to stances, and angles are fine-tuned when training with weapons, as one can not rely on pure "muscle" to get through the technique, weapons are a great "equalizer" in that respect.Also, I think you all are dead on about ameaturistic attacks, as intent is a must for a sincere practitioner. That being said, it seems I have the most fun when training with weapons! There are so many "toys" we get to play with!! I love being a MAist!! :D

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen--Midwest Hapkido Group--Hanminjok Hapkido

[moogong]

Learning a new weapon is always a great way to humble me. It really takes to a white belt mindset because every movement is new and unique. I love it...and hate it. :D

[Paul B]

LOL--But that is what makes it so fun! :laugh:

It's just twisted fun,that's all!

Best Regards,

Paul Bladen

[sidekick]

Most "weapons defense" techniques I've seen would get you killed in a real weapon fight.

DragonMind, would you care to elaborate on the particular techniques you feel would get someone killed? Thanks for your reply.

Mike Dunn

[DragonMind]

Most "weapons defense" techniques I've seen would get you killed in a real weapon fight.

DragonMind, would you care to elaborate on the particular techniques you feel would get someone killed? Thanks for your reply.

Mike Dunn
My all-time favorite is "kick the knife out of their hand" followed closely by "block the club with your forearm". Broken arm (at best) and gutted.

My biggest problem is that the attacks are so unrealistic. A knife fight is not a duel. It is over in seconds and the victim usually doesn't realize they were in a knife fight until it's over. Darren Levine from Krav Maga used his position with the LA district attorney's office to conduct studies of knife fight victims. What he found was that the typical victim had been cut 20 times or more in less than a minute. The moves are close and tight and involve a lot of stabbing motions. Fancy wristlocks and techniques that require perfect timing and aim are going to get you killed.

If someone wants a taste of what a real knife fight is like go see The Hunted. The movie is stupid but there are a few scenes of Tommy Lee Jones doing Sayoc Kali knife work. Just try to follow where the knife is coming from and imagine trying to stop it. An interesting exercise is have someone on you in the mount position. Now stop them from using that pocketknife they have.