Ok I fell for it...

[DaNinjew]

I read Mr Telecino's post on Precog Martial Arts, curiosity got the best of me and I did a search on "Kuji-In". After a couple of hours of reading and links, it lead to even more questions...that damn internet.

The author claims esoteric skills associated with Taoist, QiGong, Ninjitsu, Bhuddist and even Kabbalic mysticism....but his particular website isn't what intrigued me. I'm fascinated (yet skeptical) by mysticism or mystics (O Sensei), I am interested in expanding the mind/consciousness (without the drugs my hippie friends) for self discovery. My personal experiences are limited, I have even tried some Tibetan meditations which I enjoyed but I don't think I have the discipline or patience to become 'enlightened'.

So with that being said, I was wondering if anyone on the forum has chosen to explore this side of martial thought, deep meditations (Zen, Zazen, Transendental or other), or awareness training? If so what kind of experiences have you had? Any benefits Physically or mentally? Or do you have some recommended readings or teachers?

This is an earnest inquiry and I'm hoping not to get ripped to shreds by those of you who disapprove.

Thanks in advance,
Grasshopper

[Mano]

All I do is a little zazen before and after training.

My personal view is that it would undoubtedly be good for you to sit down and shut up for a while on a daily basis. But meditation is burdened with seven sorts of BS, Mr. Telecino's website being a pretty clear example of such. If you can wade through the Shangri-La fantasies, mythology, claims of paranormal phenomena, not to mention wearing funny hats and bedsheets and going 'ooaaooaah' - there just might be something of value there.

On a separate note, the connection to martial arts seems pretty dubious. The samurai did not do Zen. A typical contemporary martial arts teacher is not qualified to teach meditation, mysticism, or the like. Martial artists do not share a common rank, class or lifestyle, a part of which meditation would be.

[Musubi Dojo]

Honestly, if you want to learn about mediation then find a qualified teacher, not a Sokey Dokey who spent some time watching the discovery channel.

There are may different traditions, but meditation is practiced in form or another almost world wide.

Real meditation is deadly dull and hard work. Your mind fights you constantly. The reward is having meditated, nothing else.

The path to super powers lies through CGI Animation. :D

Here's a simple mediation.

Sit quietly where you won't be disturbed. Breathe in and out, counting the breath on the exhalation. Think of nothing but the breathing. Every time your mind wanders gently bring it pack to the task at hand like you would a small child. Do this for a set number of breaths (4, 5, 10) whatever works for you. You'll be surprised how difficult it is to completely focus on the breathing with out the mind wandering.

This whole process is basically training you mind to focus.

There's a non-secular book on mediation by a guy named Lawrence LeShan called "How to Meditate". It's worth a look.


Cheers
c

[Abbax8]

Meditation is like many other disciplines, to get good at it you must do it regularly. I don't do MA mediatation but rather spiritual meditation,a.k.a. prayer. For the past year I have spent 1 hour every Tuesday night working at it. Some nights are very fruitful, others less so, but I always find it refreshing, recharging and a great way to spend an hour. If I had more time I'd do it more often and probably will in the future.

All meditation that I know of has a spirtual belief system within it, either deity centered (as in Christianity) or consciousness centered (as in Zen) and of course each has many flavors. As I believe that humans are body and spirit, the practice of meditation is as appropriate as is practicing kata, and sometimes kata is meditation on the move.

Peace

Dennis

[Cory Nyenhuis]

The book "Tao and Longevity" by Nan Huai Chin is a great place start if you want to learn about meditation, at least I think it is.

[Jonathan Randall]

Meditation is like many other disciplines, to get good at it you must do it regularly. I don't do MA mediatation but rather spiritual meditation,a.k.a. prayer. For the past year I have spent 1 hour every Tuesday night working at it. Some nights are very fruitful, others less so, but I always find it refreshing, recharging and a great way to spend an hour. If I had more time I'd do it more often and probably will in the future.

All meditation that I know of has a spirtual belief system within it, either deity centered (as in Christianity) or consciousness centered (as in Zen) and of course each has many flavors. As I believe that humans are body and spirit, the practice of meditation is as appropriate as is practicing kata, and sometimes kata is meditation on the move.

Peace

Dennis

Well said. :bow:

[DaNinjew]

All I do is a little zazen before and after training.
On a separate note, the connection to martial arts seems pretty dubious. The samurai did not do Zen. A typical contemporary martial arts teacher is not qualified to teach meditation, mysticism, or the like. Martial artists do not share a common rank, class or lifestyle, a part of which meditation would be.

How much is a little? And have you had any luck achieving an 'empty mind'? Interestingly most asian martial arts lore starts out with some sort of priest turned warrior, yet as you say most modern martial artists stay away from that. Why? You think its cultural? I agree with your point a keeping your mouth shut and having some quiet time.

[DaNinjew]

All meditation that I know of has a spirtual belief system within it, either deity centered (as in Christianity) or consciousness centered (as in Zen) and of course each has many flavors. As I believe that humans are body and spirit, the practice of meditation is as appropriate as is practicing kata, and sometimes kata is meditation on the move.

I have tried some Qigong (similar in scope to katas), moving mediations, and was amazed at how invigorating it was...it was the 'breath' or 'aww the breath' as stated by Koshu...how often do we actually focus on our breathing in our daily lives? I spent most of my life exercising in some form or another but it wasn't until I had experimented with this discipline that I realized how effectual it could be. I am now much more aware or focussed on my breathing when I work out, box, or go for lengthy walks. Thanks again for your input Dennis.

PS Chris and Cory thanks for the book suggestions, I'll check them out next time I'm at Borders.

[Mano]

How much is a little? And have you had any luck achieving an 'empty mind'? Interestingly most asian martial arts lore starts out with some sort of priest turned warrior, yet as you say most modern martial artists stay away from that. Why? You think its cultural? I agree with your point a keeping your mouth shut and having some quiet time.

Very little. For a lot of Taidoka, it's just something you quickly go through for the sake of tradition, and technical aspects are seldom emphasized. If I get to decide, I just focus on breathing long enough to feel calm and to get my mind off shopping lists and such. At home, I've sometimes meditated for longer periods, and found it good. But I haven't gotten very far. I've basically just done the calming down exercises that are just the first step in a lot of traditions. It takes some will power to keep up the habit. Having a teacher or some sort of a a study group might help.

As for 'empty mind' - well, maybe to the extent that I have an idea what may be meant by the expression. But achieving that calm, peaceful state by means of meditation surely doesn't mean you would have mushin in combat.

The historical bit, then. First is the difference between mythology/folklore and historical fact. Lots of myths have been created, because martial artists wanted to describe the history of their arts as undertakings of noble and civilised people. Some people had something to sell, others wanted to believe it. So we have myths about the noble bushi who would commit seppuku out of shame, and the Okinawan peasants who would develop fighting arts in secret to free themselves from the Satsuma clan. I'm guessing the connection of priests and monks to martial arts in mythology has a similar logic. Priests are supposed to be enlightened people who do not pillage and burn.

Second, medieval warriors led completely different lives in any case. Martial training was not a hobby for them, it was developing their professional skills as members of the warrior ranks in medieval societies. I don't think they participated in religious/meditative activities because their professional skills happened to be combat skills, but because they were members of societies where religon was all-pervasive. You cannot live like that any more. Cervantes' Don Quixote describes pretty well what it would be like if you tried.

I guess the point is that doing meditation in addition to martial arts training is hardly any more traditional, since our lifestyle is very different in any case.

Miika

[Cory Nyenhuis]

Mr. Hagens you will probably not find that book at Borders, I have seen them on Amazon. The website meditationexpert.com is also very good. It is run by a student of Nan Huai Chin and has many free articles and useful resources.