Jujitsu from the 1920's

[Wasabi Rocks]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/12/1930s-british-ladies-kick_n_166347.html

In this forward-thinking British newsreel from the 20s or 30s, Miss May Whitley and her bandit friend show ladies how to defend themselves. Using Jujitsu, she makes short work of her fiendish foe. It all ends up looking like a Marx brothers movie at some point, but the slow motion at the end is particularly fabulous.

If you look carefully you can see her Uke knows how to fall properly...and to make it look like he doesn't know how to fall. Found this vastly amusing!

Enjoy!

:bow:

[Webmaster]

Seen these before. Classic oldies of goodies!

[drivica]

One thing always makes me sad when looking these old movies - all these people are already dead :frown:

This lady was older than my grandmother... Sometimes it's good to show these films to those people who think world is begining with their birth...


One off-topic question for webmaster: So, you love the "Holly Grail"? Are you another "die hard" fun of Monthy Python like me? :t2:

[Webmaster]

One off-topic question for webmaster: So, you love the "Holly Grail"? Are you another "die hard" fun of Monthy Python like me? :t2:
Yes, but I mostly like the avatar so I can taunt people even over the internet.

[Erik]

I like how, at about 58 seconds, she tosses the guy yet pulls her hands back up like a little lady afraid to break something! That moment was priceless.

Her jujitsu wasn't bad! I'm impressed also by his ukemi.

Not too keen on the seonagi-esque throw over the top but it was cool, anyway.

Very nice video!

[Jonathan Randall]

Great find! Thanks. It's from the 1930's. IIRC, the uke was her husband who along with her, helped popularize Jiu-Jitsu in the U.K. - although the Suffragettes of a generation earlier were earlier pioneers.

Here's a site that mentions May Whitley (the one in the Original Poster's video) and has an even older clip from around the turn-of-the-Century (the one before last, lol):

http://www.thejiujitsufighter.com/2009/01/old-school-jujutsu.html

The style demonstrated is really, really old school in that it emphasizes grabbing uke's hand as an opening and perfroming what, IMO, is a low percentage wrist lock unless extremely well practiced. Watching it, I have a better understanding why Kano's judoka usually defeated their Jiu-Jitsu opponents.

[Mekugi]

Very tasty! I love stuff like this!

The first technique with the friendly bandit...I totally recognize this. It probably occurs elsewhere, but it's found in Asayama Ichiden Ryu.

[Abbax8]

It all is judo ( its roots) to me, the self defense aspect of it that is. Really cool.

Peace

Dennis

[Wasabi Rocks]

for the most part is seems there was very little 'refining' of the techniques needed. great second link! thanks for sharing.

[Mekugi]

How about the first technique? It may be Judo...but man, that is too close to something I have seen outside of the Goshin-jutsu. Makes me wonder....


It all is judo ( its roots) to me, the self defense aspect of it that is. Really cool.

Peace

Dennis

[starkjudo]

If that ended in a roll, it'd be what's seen in Judo's Goshin Jitsu kata.

[Mekugi]

If that ended in a roll, it'd be what's seen in Judo's Goshin Jitsu kata.

Hmmm...okay...but where? (seriously). I have never seen this in the Kodokan Kata. Am I missing something? :confused:

[RickMatz]

The British lady is at it again! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_d7pxuDMI0)

[Wasabi Rocks]

most of that was straight jujitsu. don't forget it was not too long ago that Jigoro Kano took the sports like aspects of jujitsu and came up with the founding techniques of Judo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kano_Jigoro

[starkjudo]

Hmmm...okay...but where? (seriously). I have never seen this in the Kodokan Kata. Am I missing something? :confused:

You know what? I'm wrong. I went back and looked at Goshin (which I have not practiced in its entirety in too long) and I was getting that technique confused with one from our jutjitsu class.

[Abbax8]

Hmmm...okay...but where? (seriously). I have never seen this in the Kodokan Kata. Am I missing something? :confused:

To me Russ a joint lock is a joint lock, and Kodokan judo is JJ. I stand corrected that that technique may not be in the formal Kodokan syllabus but many similar ones are.

Peace

Dennis

[Wasabi Rocks]

the techniques are so interwoven... I am sure it can all be traced back to a really ticked off monk from Tibet about 2500 years ago. :wink2:

[Clay]

The technique was cool but am I the only one who though she had a great set of legs? :D

Don't tell my wife that I said that on valentine's Day will ya. ;)

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

How about the first technique? It may be Judo...but man, that is too close to something I have seen outside of the Goshin-jutsu. Makes me wonder....

Sosuishi-ryu Matsui-ha Kosho Kata. Waki Zume.

It's also seen in Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu jujutsu from Fukuoka.

[Mekugi]

To me Russ a joint lock is a joint lock, and Kodokan judo is JJ. I stand corrected that that technique may not be in the formal Kodokan syllabus but many similar ones are.

Peace

Dennis

Indeed! I am a little too overzealous about this stuff...which causes me to see connections where there may not be any and miss ones where there are.

-R

[Peter Rehse]

Well as we all know that kata was developed about 20 years later.


To me Russ a joint lock is a joint lock, and Kodokan judo is JJ. I stand corrected that that technique may not be in the formal Kodokan syllabus but many similar ones are.

Peace

Dennis

[Mekugi]

Well as we all know that kata was developed about 20 years later.

Great point....The Goshin Jutsu came wa-aaay after the Shinken Shobu Kata (AKA Kime no Kata).

[Webmaster]

You know what? I'm wrong. I went back and looked at Goshin (which I have not practiced in its entirety in too long) and I was getting that technique confused with one from our jutjitsu class.
No you are not mistaken... see Morote tsuke at approximately 5:30 into the below video. Not same as Russ' illustration, but close enough. This is more like the technique from the old video that brought about this part of the discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4llpdgebIdY

[Mekugi]

No you are not mistaken... see Morote tsuke at approximately 5:30 into the below video. Not same as Russ' illustration, but close enough. This is more like the technique from the old video that brought about this part of the discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4llpdgebIdY


I was thinking Morote Tsuki too, originally. In the Kodokan Judo book by Kodansha, it looks more like the Youtube vid and the original thread vid... but in that little white book Saisho Judo no Kata Zen, it gives a different "opinion" on it. I remember doing it like in the Kata Zen, so I edited out of my original post. Close enough though.

The thing is, the Kodokan Judo kata Goshin Jutsu were "put together in 1956" (umm...sure....WWII more like...added when things cooled down). SO this is actually a pre-cursor...very interesting. I am pretty sure the original clip came out after "The Jazz Singer" in 1927 so it has to be around the mid-1930's.

[starkjudo]

No you are not mistaken... see Morote tsuke at approximately 5:30 into the below video. Not same as Russ' illustration, but close enough. This is more like the technique from the old video that brought about this part of the discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4llpdgebIdY

Great, now I'm wrong about being wrong. :)

You're right that that is a close similarity. Russ' illustration was making me think of an unarmed defense I don't know the name of, where tori locks out uke's arm, holds it to tori;s opposite side pocket, and uses a palm-up mostly straight locking arm to raise uke to his toes and to propel them through a throw. I just don't know the name of it.

[Mekugi]

Ok now I am confused.... ;)

[Webmaster]

You're right that that is a close similarity. Russ' illustration was making me think of an unarmed defense I don't know the name of, where tori locks out uke's arm, holds it to tori;s opposite side pocket, and uses a palm-up mostly straight locking arm to raise uke to his toes and to propel them through a throw. I just don't know the name of it.
We call that throw you are thinking of Tenbin Nage. It is still basically the same technique as is found in the kata, just you are locking uke's elbow and putting him on his toes in a very obvious fashion before you launch them. In the kata version, the elbow is still meant to be locked though it is not as apparent.

Here is an example once you get through the commercial.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/17957_aikido-yokomen-nage.htm

[starkjudo]

We call that throw you are thinking of Tenbin Nage. It is still basically the same technique as is found in the kata, just you are locking uke's elbow and putting him on his toes in a very obvious fashion before you launch them. In the kata version, the elbow is still meant to be locked though it is not as apparent.

Here is an example once you get through the commercial.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/17957_aikido-yokomen-nage.htm

Robert, that's exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks.

[Abbax8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvxJYM_LsHw

Here is what I was remembering at 8:00 to 8:30 in the video against the knife attack. The elbow is locked with Hara-Gatame as opposed to using the arm.

Peace

Dennis

[STORMCROW34]

We call that throw you are thinking of Tenbin Nage. It is still basically the same technique as is found in the kata, just you are locking uke's elbow and putting him on his toes in a very obvious fashion before you launch them. In the kata version, the elbow is still meant to be locked though it is not as apparent.

Here is an example once you get through the commercial.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/17957_aikido-yokomen-nage.htm

It's also Tenbin Nage in Yoseikan. We drill it quite a bit. It doesn't look like much of a throw, but if you hit the back of the elbow just right, they move in a hurry. I like it. A plus is that it fits perfectly with Shiho Nage if uke manages to bend his/her arm.

[Nick L.]

It's also Tenbin Nage in Yoseikan. We drill it quite a bit. It doesn't look like much of a throw, but if you hit the back of the elbow just right, they move in a hurry. I like it. A plus is that it fits perfectly with Shiho Nage if uke manages to bend his/her arm.

I am not sure I am following, it may just be stylistic differences but wouldn't you want a bent arm for any shiho nage and a straight arm for tenbin nage?

I have seen the same technique against a straight punch, without gripping the arm. Just a 45 step to the outside of a straight punch and engage the back of the elbow with the same flipping motion of the arm. I played around with it one time, my uke did not like it very much, you can get a real hyper extension of the joint if you can catch uke at the end of their punch.

[Mekugi]

Hmmm....is she relying on the joint to throw or is she dropping suddenly?

[Webmaster]

Hmmm....is she relying on the joint to throw or is she dropping suddenly?
She is probably only relying on the joint a little, much more like Morote Tsuki in the Goshin Jutsu Kata which uses the sudden drop to execute. If the uke's arm is anchored tightly and tori's arm is also tight, you cannot help but lock the elbow at least a little bit, but it's incidental. In the case of the Tenbin Nage, it is meant to both lock the elbow hard and get uke on their toes and then use that sudden drop to plant them on the ground. Both work and are effective, but I would prefer to lock out the elbow hard and give uke fewer opportunities to wiggle out.

I would be curious as to which version was the original, locking out the elbow more like Tenbin Nage, or the Morote Tsuke of Goshin Jutsu Kata?

[STORMCROW34]

I am not sure I am following, it may just be stylistic differences but wouldn't you want a bent arm for any shiho nage and a straight arm for tenbin nage?

Yes exactly. Sometimes when applying Tenbin Nage, uke bends arm in an attempt to slip the throw by dropping elbow and rotating the palm up and thumb down to the back/outside.

[Nick L.]

Yes exactly. Sometimes when applying Tenbin Nage, uke bends arm in an attempt to slip the throw by dropping elbow and rotating the palm up and thumb down to the back/outside.

Sorry,
I just misread your post. I only thought you were saying what I should have wanted you not to say but instead saying the other thing. :confused::confused:

We are on the same page.

[Mekugi]

Well this thread was pretty useful...and ultimately painful. I downloaded the original clip and took it into training on my Iphone tonight. We have a mixed group there, some are Judoka, others Aikidoka; a few are from Roppokai and we have one ex-Hakko-ryu practicioner (among others). So, we rolled with this and we pretty much rounded this technique out with about 15 variations. One of the Judoka is ex-policeman (retired) and he was pretty into the goshin jutsu kata during his day (and Aikido- apparently he trained with Mr. Shioda once in a while) and he had something interesting to share on the subject. He knows we do the jo and spear, so he was skeptical about letting us jab at him with a stick- not because he wasn't any good....but because we knew what we were doing when thrusting and it made it damned near impossible to latch on, even at a slow speed. There was no way he was going to get outside us with that angle by stepping into the thrust; but shrewdly enough he would keep back and launch in on the thrust's return. From there, he was able to pull the technique off by trapping our hands on the stick (similar to what you see in the video, from the side-by-side position).

Fun stuff!

-Russ

[STORMCROW34]

Sounds like Irimi Senkai tai sabaki. We use it alot to set up the Tenbin Nage from a same side wrist grab. One of the variations we use is; lock the elbow to get them on their toes, step through with the inside leg for kuzushi and to drop, and then block uke's inside leg with the left arm as they try to step with you. It works quite well!

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

That armlock that Russ posted can also be found in Kodokan Judo's Renkoho. It's not taught that much anymore, but a number of the older Tokyo police dept. judo instructors still know these.

That particular armlock is found in a good number of koryu jujutsu, including Asayama Ichiden-ryu, Takagi-ryu, Sosuishi-ryu, Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu & Takeuchi-ryu.

[Koshu]

Very tasty! I love stuff like this!

The first technique with the friendly bandit...I totally recognize this. It probably occurs elsewhere, but it's found in Asayama Ichiden Ryu.


That armlock that Russ posted can also be found in Kodokan Judo's Renkoho. It's not taught that much anymore, but a number of the older Tokyo police dept. judo instructors still know these.

That particular armlock is found in a good number of koryu jujutsu, including Asayama Ichiden-ryu, Takagi-ryu, Sosuishi-ryu, Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu & Takeuchi-ryu.

Hakkoryu (et al) has that technique as well, in shodan-ge. But the waza formally starts from a cross-wrist choke (likely inherited from koryu via Daito-ryu). First technique shown in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbxtN8nOUwo).

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

Hakkoryu (et al) has that technique as well, in shodan-ge. But the waza formally starts from a cross-wrist choke (likely inherited from koryu via Daito-ryu). First technique shown in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbxtN8nOUwo).

Hmmm, very different.

The lever is similar, but the actual technique is as if you are placing a bar between the teki's torso and arm, using that as a lever as in this technique (Sorry, I couldn't find a better version.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-0HKAoe27A)

What the first technique in Hakko-ryu looks like is something along the lines of a Hontai Yoshin-ryu technique. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VC1ydQ-pqs) I know the specific technique is rather different, but the lever and principle behind the technique is the same.

[Mekugi]

Am I missing something? Steve, I don't see any similarity in the technique I was talking about and the Takagi Ryu clip.

[STORMCROW34]

At about 2:25 into this video you can see our version of Tenbin Nage from a few different attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7tH6PgWFws&feature=PlayList&p=38F36AA20B053CDE&playnext=1&index=22

[Nick L.]

At about 2:25 into this video you can see our version of Tenbin Nage from a few different attacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7tH6PgWFws&feature=PlayList&p=38F36AA20B053CDE&playnext=1&index=22

In the video, it looked like a few different versions of tenbin nage? One looked interesting, tori was pulling uke's arm across his chest with both hands and using his upper arm or shoulder to barrel through the back of the elbow :fear:. That one looked effective but there was not much off balance before the execution. The version earlier in the clip where tori is rising through the joint with his lower bicep and executing with a shuffle step and a flip of the arm when uke is on his toes is what we have been working on recently. I also noticed one of the older gentlemen using the double arm version. Anyhow, interesting video, which version is closer to what you practice or is it all three?

[Koshu]

Hmmm, very different.

The lever is similar, but the actual technique is as if you are placing a bar between the teki's torso and arm, using that as a lever as in this technique (Sorry, I couldn't find a better version.) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-0HKAoe27A)

What the first technique in Hakko-ryu looks like is something along the lines of a Hontai Yoshin-ryu technique. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VC1ydQ-pqs) I know the specific technique is rather different, but the lever and principle behind the technique is the same.
Steve --- A worthy observation. In my experience, though -- especially in henka or self-defense applications when the attack isn't a cross-wrist choke -- you may get the former, the latter, or a bit of both. But yes, the idea in Hakkoryu is to apply pressure from both under and behind the bound arm.

Here's a side-by-side comparison (the video capture on the right-hand side is different than the one in the original video for which I provided a link since it better mirrors the shot angle from the OP video):

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww10/Jujitsu4u/Comparison-arm-barthrow.jpg?t=1235322208

[STORMCROW34]

In the video, it looked like a few different versions of tenbin nage? One looked interesting, tori was pulling uke's arm across his chest with both hands and using his upper arm or shoulder to barrel through the back of the elbow :fear:. That one looked effective but there was not much off balance before the execution. The version earlier in the clip where tori is rising through the joint with his lower bicep and executing with a shuffle step and a flip of the arm when uke is on his toes is what we have been working on recently. I also noticed one of the older gentlemen using the double arm version. Anyhow, interesting video, which version is closer to what you practice or is it all three?

Hi Nick. It sounds like we are on the same training page with the Tenbin Nage. There is major emphasis on getting uke on the toes before the tsugi ashi. And then after kake, we often finish with a standing lock on the elbow.

I am really not sure about the other versions in the video. I'm not exactly an expert on Yoseikan. It could be they are specific variations to different attacks from different sides, or they could be improvising a little. I am pretty sure that Minoru Mochizuki liked his students to continue and finish techniques when things aren't working out as planned.

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

Am I missing something? Steve, I don't see any similarity in the technique I was talking about and the Takagi Ryu clip.

Will show you in April when I'm in Japan. (Usuki sensei doesn't know yet.) It's all inter-related. A certain ryuha that binds the ryuha we study together. ;)

[Mekugi]

Guys,

The conversation that has sprouted from the thread, on at least three continents, is pretty amazing.

Polite, educated discussion coupled with experimentation and examples is what Budoseek! is and what the Internet should be for.

Kudos!



Here's a side-by-side comparison (the video capture on the right-hand side is different than the one in the original video for which I provided a link since it better mirrors the shot angle from the OP video):

The similarity is very apparent with this angle. I saw it before, but only in terms of the barred right arm. With this view I see it for sure.


So lessee....how many styles use this same "bar-to-forward-throw/takedown" technique:

Aikido
Asayama Ichiden Ryu
Bujinkan Budo-Taijutsu
Hakko Ryu
Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu
Judo
Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu/Tanbo
Sosushi ryu

That's 8...I know I missed some.

[STORMCROW34]

Agreed Mekugi, that's why I like this place.

Excuse my ignorance, but has anyone drawn a conclusion as to where this throw came from?

[Nick L.]

There is another version that our benevolent dictator has shown a few times, far more violent and gruesome :D . When rising through the elbow pull the forearm more across your chest, reaching across uke's chest and grabbing a ear, some hair, collar or whatever you can manage. Stepping in the direction that uke's hips are facing, locking the joint and then dropping to your inside knee and planting uke's (bad guy uke only) head into the ground while pulling uke's wrist to your opposite hip.

I hope I explained the correctly or I fear I will be uke next week when the proper method is taught. :o

[STORMCROW34]

That does sound pretty nasty!

Here's one for you; when stepping through with ukes elbow locked, instead of throwing, throw an uppercut through back of elbow, making contact with your bicep.

[Mekugi]

When rising through the elbow pull the forearm more across your chest, reaching across uke's chest and grabbing a ear, some hair, collar or whatever you can manage.


Does anyone follow Dexter...the Showtime TV series?
I've seen a version of this on there, oddly enough- a throat grab. Get the lawyer on the phone...or at least get Micheal C. Hall to plug the dojo. :D

Below is a clip from Youtube.

The F-bomb and more swears are dropped a few times too many for the younger viewers :(....please do not click THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHytlkqPRCk) if you are offended by a strong case of the potty-mouth (if you watch this, please put money in the swears jar).

[Mekugi]

Excuse my ignorance, but has anyone drawn a conclusion as to where this throw came from?

I think it's from the collective.
I suppose you could draw the conclusion that it came from Yoshin Ryu or Takenouchi ryu- but then again what didn't???

I betcha I can find something like this in a densho....

Wait...just did...

Hoki ryu (in color) which "stole" a lot from Takenouchi ryu

and

Yoshin Ryu (B&W Stickman....notice...hmm...the stick the "stickman" has?)

[STORMCROW34]

Thanks for posting those Mekugi. Is that supposed to be a stick or a sword?

[Mekugi]

Thanks for posting those Mekugi. Is that supposed to be a stick or a sword?

Curiously enough...."Chikiriki-bo"... (stick with a chain weight)

Manriki no Seki is the name of the kata (I think...it's a name so I might be totally wrong).
At any rate, the kanji looks like this:
万力之責

Additionally (kicking it around a bit):

The technique (the one from Hoki ryu...seated) appears in Fusen Ryu. According to a close compatriot, variances of it occur in Takenouchi Ryu too. Like Steve mentioned, Sosuishi ryu has a similar bar in the Kosho kata, but you fall backwards to throw (but going forwards is just as easy, huh!)

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

You'll also see this principle in Kiraku-ryu & Araki-ryu.

[Nick L.]

All right now! You guys have officially flew over my head.

I had mentioned this earlier in the thread but I have not been able to find a suitable video or picture. In one of Sensei Gozo Shioda's books he talks about using this waza a lot, especially against a straight punch and I believe he used it against a American boxer in his days of performing during the war. The main difference is no gripping, a Hon Tenkan with the inside arm (after tenkan) coming to the back of the elbow with palm up and then quickly flipping to a thumb down while "striking" back of uke's elbow with your elbow at the end of uke's punch. Thus hyper extending the elbow and not making uke want to use that arm (or punch) anymore.

Is this still tenbin? I know it is not nage, in Shioda Sensei's book it is called a throw but that is because his uke will go flying at point of touch, IMO.

[Koshu]

. . . I had mentioned this earlier in the thread but I have not been able to find a suitable video or picture. In one of Sensei Gozo Shioda's books he talks about using this waza a lot, especially against a straight punch and I believe he used it against a American boxer in his days of performing during the war. The main difference is no gripping, a Hon Tenkan with the inside arm (after tenkan) coming to the back of the elbow with palm up and then quickly flipping to a thumb down. . . . in Shioda Sensei's book it is called a throw but that is because his uke will go flying at point of touch, IMO.
Nick --- What you described is how we're taught to use the arm that's thrust across the front of the uke's body. It helps get the uke onto his/her toes (enhanced kuzushi) and makes the armbar even nastier. Nice observation (Hakkoryu and it's derivatives share Daito-ryu lineage with aikido).

So what apparently happened to the boxer when he encountered Shioda?

[Eric Joyce]

All right now! You guys have officially flew over my head.

I had mentioned this earlier in the thread but I have not been able to find a suitable video or picture. In one of Sensei Gozo Shioda's books he talks about using this waza a lot, especially against a straight punch and I believe he used it against a American boxer in his days of performing during the war. The main difference is no gripping, a Hon Tenkan with the inside arm (after tenkan) coming to the back of the elbow with palm up and then quickly flipping to a thumb down while "striking" back of uke's elbow with your elbow at the end of uke's punch. Thus hyper extending the elbow and not making uke want to use that arm (or punch) anymore.

Is this still tenbin? I know it is not nage, in Shioda Sensei's book it is called a throw but that is because his uke will go flying at point of touch, IMO.


The name of the technique that you are referring to in Yoshinkan Aikido is called Hiji Ate. You are correct in that it is a nage (throw). It can be done seated or standing too :)

[Koshu]

Nick, et al --- Here are more pictures of Hakko (Denshin) Ryu's version of the technique (Antonio Garcia again performing what we call Kubi Shime Dori). Notice the thumb starts up then rotates forward as tori executes the throw (you can't see the rotated hand in the second photo, but it is down, as in the previous Garcia photo from a few posts back). We put heavy emphasis on otoshi to finish this off, as the second photo demonstrates (not quite as brutal as Robert-san's henka you described, but the drop can be nasty even in vanilla kihon and a lot of people get mat burn on their scalps nonetheless).

http://www.expedition.pl/hakko/techniki/h02/h2_3.jpg http://www.expedition.pl/hakko/techniki/h02/h2_4.jpg

[Nick L.]

Here it is, Hiji-Ate Kokyu-Nage from Shioda Sensei's book "Total Aikido; The Master Course". See the three pictures on the right, I have seen him use this in his demos a few times.

As for the boxer in the war, if I remember correctly the boxer eventually had enough and quit the bout to save his pride. The story is in his book Akido Shugyo, I had borrowed it from Dave (Rasputin).

[Mekugi]

hmmmm.....this look familiar?

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1518/hokiryu.jpg

[Gunyo Kogusoku]

hmmmm.....this look familiar?

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1518/hokiryu.jpg

Kannuki Nuki. :cool2:

[Eric Joyce]

hmmmm.....this look familiar?

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1518/hokiryu.jpg

Hi Russ,

I love the artwork of these guys doing jujutsu. Where did you find them if you don't mind me asking?

[Erik]

There is another version that our benevolent dictator has shown a few times, far more violent and gruesome :D . When rising through the elbow pull the forearm more across your chest, reaching across uke's chest and grabbing a ear, some hair, collar or whatever you can manage. Stepping in the direction that uke's hips are facing, locking the joint and then dropping to your inside knee and planting uke's (bad guy uke only) head into the ground while pulling uke's wrist to your opposite hip.

I hope I explained the correctly or I fear I will be uke next week when the proper method is taught. :o

Is your tummy pressed against the elbow joint? Or am I envisioning this wrong?

[Mekugi]

Hi Russ,

I love the artwork of these guys doing jujutsu. Where did you find them if you don't mind me asking?


These are from Hoki Ryu Jujutsu. PM me!

-Russ

[DragonMind]

So lessee....how many styles use this same "bar-to-forward-throw/takedown" technique:

Aikido
Asayama Ichiden Ryu
Bujinkan Budo-Taijutsu
Hakko Ryu
Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu
Judo
Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu/Tanbo
Sosushi ryu

That's 8...I know I missed some.
Add Hapkido

[Nick L.]

Is your tummy pressed against the elbow joint? Or am I envisioning this wrong?

No, it is the base of your bicep pressing through the joint. You are trying to make uke stand on his tippy toes, right before slamming their head into the ground.